Paradise Phono Stage

[YNWaN]

I'm nearing completion of my my most recent project - the Paradise moving coil phono stage. This has been a joint collaboration between the folks at DIY Audio (forum) who designed it (and the power supply), Simon (sq225917) who spent hours sourcing parts, selecting components and building up the circuit boards (beautifully too), Andrew (flatpopely) who supplied the cases and me, who put it all together :).

In my case (no pun), this phono stage is entirely mono-block built, even down to the power supplies and consists of four Naim 'shoe-box' cases - so it's not for those wanting a minimalist system. Simon built up the boards to be within 1% tolerance (some critical sections are better than 1% I believe). Cartridge loading can be adjusted by inserting capacitor and resistor combinations in to sockets provided on the circuit board (no soldering required). The boards are mounted on acrylic chassis' and sandwiched between neoprene washers. The input sockets are 50ohm BNC and the output sockets are Eichmann copper (which match the cables used).

This design is an all out assault on the state of the art with regard to amplifying the output of a low output moving coil cartridge. I first heard it when Simon built one for himself. As is the norm, he subsequently loaned his stage to me; I was expecting to be rather underwhelmed - but I was not. In fact, after two listening sessions I decided I couldn't live without one and so this project began.

How does it sound? It sounds remarkable is how it sounds! It sounds like you have had a whole amplifier upgrade. It makes my old stage sound quite compressed, vague and soft in the bass. The ability to separate out strands of the music and present them as a coherent rhythmic whole is the best I have ever heard - as a result, timing is outstanding. Detail retrieval is astonishing, but it isn't thrust at you in a 'look at me' sort of way. It could never be described as warm and euphonic, but neither is at all hard or have any transistor 'glare'. Vocal communication is outstanding and the bass is simply Stygian in depth, power and definition - dynamic range is truly amazing!

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/markemark_2006/null_zps237d85d5.jpg

[Clive]

Sounds like perfection. Simon's looked really great too. Those Naim chassis could have been designed f for it. I'm sure you'll enjoy it tremendously.

[YNWaN]

Yeah, the Naim cases are an ideal size :). The only difference between Si's and mine is that his uses a different power supply.

[Rare Bird]

What are those strips by the side of the PCB's?

[YNWaN]

The circuit boards are actually mounted to 5mm acrylic which allowed me to get all the holes in exactly the right places (because I CNC laser cut them). The strips help mount the cable tie mounts that will hold all the cables neat and tidy. The wiring hasn't actually been done in the picture posted. As I have yet to etch the front and back panels I will have to disassemble it when I fit the back panels - so I haven't taken the protective film off the acrylic yet - which is why it is white with yellow writing - the acrylic is black.

[Rare Bird]

Ah right, good idea. Do you work with Acrylic as a living as it could be very handy for some..

[YNWaN]

Do you work with acrylic as a living..

No, not as such.

[Ulysses]

Those look impressive. Not that I know anything about phono stages (other than I have one in-built in my amp), but if size counts then it should sound good.

What phono stages have you compared it with?

[Thing Fish]

Nice floor...:)

[YNWaN]

The boxes in the right are the power supplies for the boxes on the left :). You would need a massive amplifier to fit it all in!

Recently I have compared the Linn Uphorik, the Naim Superline, a couple of Valve stages, a modified Cambridge and a Naim Prefix (also heavily modified) - oh, and my own Naim based stage.

[YNWaN]

Nice floor...:)

I did that too - well, sanded, stained and varnished it :).

[Ulysses]

The boxes in the right are the power supplies for the boxes on the left :). You would need a massive amplifier to fit it all in!

Recently I have compared the Linn Uphorik, the Naim Superline, a couple of Valve stages, a modified Cambridge and a Naim Prefix (also heavily modified) - oh, and my own Naim based stage.

What were the results of all those comparisons against the 4 box beast?:) Subtle differences or something of a different order?. Or is your earlier description applicable to all the aforementioned.

[YNWaN]

Blimey John, that's a big question you ask :). The short answer is that this phonostage sounds significantly better than any other stage I have tried.

Compared to the Superline it is more dynamic, more transparent and has better bass definition.

Compared to the Uphorik it has significantly better tonal shading and sounds much less 'electronic/mechanical'.

Both the valve stages sounded rounded at the top end but ultimately lacked definition and I found their sound uneven across the frequency range with a sense of different timing in the lower registers. I don't think these issues are necessarily the case with valve gear but I do find it to be true with a lot of it.

The upgraded Cambridge stage (really a completely different stage in the same box) sounded very like the Uphorik (which makes it a blooming bargain).

The bottom line is that the level of dynamic, focus and insight this phonostage offers is in an entirely different league to those stages I have previously tried. I thought I had a reasonably good idea of the performance envelope that phonostages existed within - but that has been proven to be a false belief.

Details of the design of the stage can be found on the DIY Audio forum. The actual circuit design was by Joachim Gerhard (who, among other projects, designed all the Audio Physic and Immedia sonics lines of speakers). The circuit board CAD and other details were carried out by other forum contributors.

This is quite a complex DIY build - the circuit uses low levels of feedback and instead achieves linearity through close matching of components (time consuming to do). It's not that cheap a project either;although much cheaper than a commercial product it is quite expensive by DIY standards. If anyone is interested I believe the group buy for the phonostage proper (not the power supply which came later) has ended, but boards can still be bought from forum members who bought too many etc. (though you will have to search).

[Ulysses]

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

I think if I attempted such a project I would either end up cursing myself for being so foolhardy, or I’d be left sat in a acrid smoke filled room blaming the soldering iron and instruction manual. :doh:

So for now, I’ll have to make do with drooling and dreaming.

[YNWaN]

Ah well, it's certainly not a 'first time' electronics project and is pretty much on the edge of what one can do before quite sophisticated (expensive) measuring equipment is needed).

But don't worry about swearing at the instructions - as there aren't any :)!

[Arkless Electronics]

Blimey John, that's a big question you ask :). The short answer is that this phonostage sounds significantly better than any other stage I have tried.

Compared to the Superline it is more dynamic, more transparent and has better bass definition.

Compared to the Uphorik it has significantly better tonal shading and sounds much less 'electronic/mechanical'.

Both the valve stages sounded rounded at the top end but ultimately lacked definition and I found their sound uneven across the frequency range with a sense of different timing in the lower registers. I don't think these issues are necessarily the case with valve gear but I do find it to be true with a lot of it.

The upgraded Cambridge stage (really a completely different stage in the same box) sounded very like the Uphorik (which makes it a blooming bargain).

The bottom line is that the level of dynamic, focus and insight this phonostage offers is in an entirely different league to those stages I have previously tried. I thought I had a reasonably good idea of the performance envelope that phonostages existed within - but that has been proven to be a false belief.

Details of the design of the stage can be found on the DIY Audio forum. The actual circuit design was by Joachim Gerhard (who, among other projects, designed all the Audio Physic and Immedia sonics lines of speakers). The circuit board CAD and other details were carried out by other forum contributors.

This is quite a complex DIY build - the circuit uses low levels of feedback and instead achieves linearity through close matching of components (time consuming to do). It's not that cheap a project either;although much cheaper than a commercial product it is quite expensive by DIY standards. If anyone is interested I believe the group buy for the phonostage proper (not the power supply which came later) has ended, but boards can still be bought from forum members who bought too many etc. (though you will have to search).

If I may be allowed the self indulgence of "blowing my own trumpet" here I'll just point out that it was the Arkless 640P.... The one that I make...;)

There's loads of info and customer reviews over on PFM here: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=126877

[YNWaN]

Ah yes, very true, it was indeed the phonostage that Jez does that I was referring to. Jez and I have not always seen eye to eye but there is no doubt that his design punches well above it's price.

I believe there is also a more sophisticated, and more expensive, stage in development and I very much look forward to hearing that (should the opportunity arise).

[Arkless Electronics]

Well I sincerely hope that what was basically a misunderstanding/communications breakdown has now been put behind us :)

Yes I would certainly like your opinion on the new one even if it's in prototype form when you get to hear it ;)


Ah yes, very true, it was indeed the phonostage that Jez does that I was referring to. Jez and I have not always seen eye to eye but there is no doubt that his design punches well above it's price.

I believe there is also a more sophisticated, and more expensive, stage in development and I very much look forward to hearing that (should the opportunity arise).

[sq225917]

John if you can be arsed to look for the PCBs I'd build one up for you. As mark says though it would still be quite expensive, the last one I built for someone totalled £700.

[Ulysses]

That’s great Simon!

Unfortunately, I boxed-up my kit last week. And it’s probably going to be in storage for the next three years (although things might change). Last night I had to sit through Strictly Come Dancing, whereas normally the Hi-Fi would be on, such is life. I’m already missing my system and reading this forum only makes things worse, especially as I’ve had my imagination fired up with the thought of what could be the next step up in sound quality.

I thought it would be expensive with all those bits to buy and solder together and the subsequent time that’s involved, but if it made a big enough improvement over my inbuilt phono stage I would commit to getting one.

Perhaps if my circumstances change we can pursue this later on. Otherwise maybe we can revisit this in three years time?


Cheers



John if you can be arsed to look for the PCBs I'd build one up for you. As mark says though it would still be quite expensive, the last one I built for someone totalled £700.

[YNWaN]

I very much doubt there will be any unbuilt stages in three years - but you never know.

[Ulysses]

I know, its a long shot but a glimmer of hope helps...

My heart sank when I saw Simon's post.


I very much doubt there will be any unbuilt stages in three years - but you never know.

[YNWaN]

Well I sincerely hope that what was basically a misunderstanding/communications breakdown has now been put behind us :)

Yes I would certainly like your opinion on the new one even if it's in prototype form when you get to hear it ;)

Yes indeed :).

I would be very interested in hearing your new design when it is ready.

[YNWaN]

I know, its a long shot but a glimmer of hope helps...

Fingers crossed :). There may be more boards produced by then.

I can't blooming wait for the back panel material to turn up so I can finish the whole project off :).

[Bksabath]

wow 2 treads about the Paradise in this forum
I have the R2 boards for quite same time and I am in the process of populating the R3 boards I bought 2 years ago:doh:

It is the best phono stage I have heard but I think I can be made to be even better.

One thing I do not like is the lay out of the power supply
There are same transistors under the heat sinks and that get pretty hot that could do whit same improvements
The second thing I would look at is the servo same what of an improvement have been made by upgrading the op-amps
I would like to see, I don’t know if this is correct, a second order version meaning 2 cascaded filters.
I am handy whit welding components and drawing Circuit boards but can do whit same help whit a betterer servo.
I must say
I have not listened to it whit the Calvin buffers so servo may be not so important.

I have seen £750 for cost of build compared to what is on the market for that price I can say that in terms of speed nothing get even close to the Paradise

[sq225917]

I don't think the servo is audible, but I guess that depends on how much it's working. Match the input stage and current mirrors to better than 1%, isolate the input stage thermally, and the servo should have almost nothing to do. I know in the units I build i seldom see the servo opamp doing any heavy lifting. Also a swap to a OPA627 or other low DC offset/drift op-amp can improve things over the standard part. If you think that DC drift is a concern and are worried about the servo I'd tackle it at source and do all you can to eliminate the offset before it happens.

[Bksabath]

I must agree whit you that to eliminate the cause is better than having to use a cure, still a better servo would not hurt....
How much?£££££ OPA 627 :scratch:

[sq225917]

25 quid each.... And the difference is tiny.

[YNWaN]

I put them in mine back when it was fist suggested (aided by the fact that Si had installed ZF sockets for them in in the original build (they weren't quite so expensive back then - but still not cheap)). Anyway, I thought they made quite a clear beneficial difference back then - not massive but audible.