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Mike
09-05-2009, 16:37
Hi All,

I've noticed that over recent months quite a few forum member are starting to use this cartridge and I'm wondering 'why', what do you think of it', and also 'how does it compare to other cartridges you've used'?

I use one myself, but so much is changing in my system lately that I'm finding it difficult to establish what I make of it. :scratch:

Cheers...

DSJR
09-05-2009, 18:51
My impression of this cartridge is that after nearly thirty years of work on the AT33 series, they hit the jackpot with this one!

I've always respected the OC9, accepting that it's too "bleached" in sound for many and I loved the OC30 version which had a more powerful bass register (I've found one ripe for a re-tip when funds allow). The 33PTG seems to take this further.

You'll find that supposedly "better" pickups will cost shedloads more and the Dynavectors and Ortofons for 300 or so will almost certainly sound coloured and contrived by comparison, designed for a market taste rather than a better 300 worth IMO.

Enjoy your PTG and be comfortable in the fact that if imported and sold retail here, it would sell for 500 to 600 at todays echange rates I reckon.

Marco
09-05-2009, 19:21
Mikey,

Quite simply, if it had the superb bass of the 103 (or an SPU) then it would be perfect!

The AT33PTG is a massive unmitigated bargain.

Marco.

Magna Audio
09-05-2009, 19:45
I like mine - I've not heard all that many in this price range but this one just ticks all the boxes of how I want things to sound.
It does have fantastic bass, deep but excellent control, dynamic, clear and detailed. Seems to suit the Dynavector P75 I am using better than others too.

Here's mine in action on the newly hand crafted headshell.

http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/42855/2797341380071997495S600x600Q85.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2797341380071997495HLHBNK)

DSJR
10-05-2009, 18:04
Mikey,

Quite simply, if it had the superb bass of the 103 (or an SPU) then it would be perfect!

The AT33PTG is a massive unmitigated bargain.

Marco.

Marco,

PLEASE humour me with this (I'm an old Aspergic you know and not too flexible...)......:scratch:

If you took your Spendors off their Mana supports, what would happen? Would you get too much bass with the 103/Spu/M3D setup then?

If you then changed to a 33PTG, would it then help restore the balance and also make CD's more inviting????????

I'm not being cheeky and as I haven't heard your system I cannot possibly comment other than by asking what appear to be silly questions like these...

jakwb
11-05-2009, 07:22
Mike,
I was always interested in the AT33PTG.
Last week I found a used AT33ANV on Ebay for a great price so I picked it up on impulse.
I think the 33ANV is more similar to the 33EV that can be found on AudioCubes, but I don't imagine it's all that different from the PTG.
I have only been playing 33ANV for 3 days, but I love it. It's magnificent. I've used a DL103 and 103R and really like them both, but this 33ANV is blowing me away.
Compared to the 103, the bass may be a little less, but definitely not thin or lacking. This thing has punch and balls. The high end is were it really shines though. It's spectacular from my limited experience. :)
Jason

Marco
11-05-2009, 08:25
Hi Dave,


PLEASE humour me with this (I'm an old Aspergic you know and not too flexible...)......


I always 'humour' you, so this time won't be any different :eyebrows: ;)


If you took your Spendors off their Mana supports, what would happen?


And put them on the floor or on another type of stand? No matter, really, as both the former and the latter (perhaps to lesser extent) would result in them sounding crap, compared to what I'm enjoying now.

The Mana supports used throughout my system are responsible for a huge percentage of its performance, especially the stands under the Spendors. Such big speakers in a relatively small room would boom all over the place otherwise. The Mana stands effectively isolate the speakers from the effects of the room, keeping bass sphincter-tight and controlled at all times, but also 'real' - no other speaker stands I've used so far have done this.


Would you get too much bass with the 103/Spu/M3D setup then?


Yes, of course, but that would be no fault of the 103 or M3D (I don't own an SPU - yet!); simply the lack of proper isolation under the speakers.


If you then changed to a 33PTG, would it then help restore the balance and also make CD's more inviting????????


No idea - I haven't tried it. CDs are "inviting" on my system, very actually; just not as "inviting" as records played on my modded Techy, particularly since I've fitted the M3D!

I think you're slightly misunderstanding me. When I made the comment about bass in reference to the 103 and 33PTG, I wasn't talking about quantity of bass, but rather the quality of it, and most importantly, 'tone'.

Don't get me wrong, the 33PTG undoubtedly has excellent bass......for a modern design. That last bit's the key. Quite simply, until you've heard an SPU, M3D or 103SA do bass in a fully optimised, sympathetically matched, system you won't 'get' where I'm coming from.

Yesterday I was listening to an original 1956 vinyl release on Capitol of 'Swing Easy' by Frank Sinatra, and quite apart from the excellent music, I marvelled at the phenomenal quality of the recording, in terms of how musically 'real' it seemed. It used valve microphones, mixing desks, etc, throughout the (simplicity) of the recording process, compared to the bastardisation which often happens to music nowadays in studios.

These high quality old recordings are to my ears much more faithful to musical performances than about 95% of what's produced today - certainly this fact is borne out within the contents of my own (fairly substantial) music collection, and my tastes are wide and varied. The difference is hard to put into words... I think much of it is to do with dynamic range and resolution, which simply makes these recordings sound so vivid and utterly 'wide-open'.

In terms of the Sinatra recording I was listening to, this allowed his voice and the accompanying instrumental support by Nelson Riddle complete freedom of expression, and in the process giving the performance a level of realism which allowed one to form an emotional bond with the music, transcending the constraints of the reproduction chain - thus one was presented with living, breathing, 'live' music, as opposed to a worthy but ultimately artificial 'copy', represented in my experience by the majority of today's recordings in comparison. In short, I marvelled more at the passion and emotion of the performance than how good the sound was, consequently allowing me to make a genuine 'connection' with the music. I just wish that all recordings today had those qualities.

It's the qualities I've described above which, when 'done well', cartridges such as the 103SA, M3D and SPU possess over their sonically 'technically accomplished' modern counterparts, such as the AT33PTG we're discussing and most of today's cartridge designs. Excellent as they are in many respects, to my ears they just don't have the 'magical' way with music presented with such aplomb by the classic cartridges I've mentioned.

Does that help?


I'm not being cheeky and as I haven't heard your system I cannot possibly comment other than by asking what appear to be silly questions like these...

No worries, Dave. Continue to ask away! :cool:

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
11-05-2009, 08:42
I had a listen to Nat King Cole yesterday, a recording I'd always considered too syrupy.

I must say the AT33ptg really brought Nat into the room. It might have been "too big" in absolute terms, but it certainly was a very inviting listen.

Marco
11-05-2009, 08:59
Peter, which Nat King Cole album/recording was it? I've got most of them and none sound "syrupy" - far from it! :)

Marco.

lovejoy
11-05-2009, 08:59
I've had a 33PTG for close to a year now. It replaced an Ortofon Kontrapunkt 'A' which was on its last legs and considering the price difference between the two cartridges, the Kontrapunkt got shown up a bit.

When I bought my Well Tempered it came with a Dynavector XX2. I've always found DV carts a bit rich for my tastes, but vocals were so lush and vivid I stuck with it for a while. The Kontrapunkt lost the sense of space and richness that the DV had but made up for it with dynamics and excitement.

To me, the AT33PTG combines the best of both whilst not giving much up in other areas. Probably the biggest hi-fi bargain ever.

My only slight niggle with it is that it does seem to be quite sensitive to temperature. During the winter it was tracking beautifully at around 1.5g, but with the weather getting warmer, I've had to hike it to around 1.8g as it started sounding a bit messy.

Marco
11-05-2009, 09:08
During the winter it was tracking beautifully at around 1.5g, but with the weather getting warmer, I've had to hike it to around 1.8g as it started sounding a bit messy.


Hi Rich,

That's the opposite of what is normally required. VTF is usually increased as ambient temperature becomes lower. Not to worry, though! :)

Incidentally, just to make it clear, and this applies to everyone - as I've said on many occasions, I rate the AT33PTG very highly, so please don't think differently. My comments above were aimed solely at a specific aspect of the sound which Dave had referred to and asked me to comment on.

Jason summed it up quite nicely (although 'tone' is more what I'm talking about than just bass):


Compared to the 103, the bass may be a little less, but definitely not thin or lacking. This thing has punch and balls. The high end is were it really shines though. It's spectacular from my limited experience.


Indeed, and probably better than (or at least as good as) 90% of supposed 'hi-end' moving coils at many times the price! Whenever I'm asked to recommend a 'user-friendly', top-notch, affordable MC cartridge, the AT33PTG fits the bill perfectly.

Marco.

lovejoy
11-05-2009, 09:12
Hi Rich,

That's the opposite of what is normally required. VTF is usually increased as ambient temperature becomes lower. Not to worry, though! :)


Marco.

I always thought it was a bit backwards, so that did confuse me slightly. It's always possible that there was some other element involved too, which is always the way with these turntable things ;-).

MartinT
11-05-2009, 10:22
Yesterday I was listening to an original 1956 vinyl release on Capitol of 'Swing Easy' by Frank Sinatra, and quite apart from the excellent music, I marvelled at the phenomenal quality of the recording, in terms of how musically 'real' it seemed. It used valve microphones, etc, throughout the (simplicity) of the recording process, compared to the bastardisation which largely happens to music nowadays in studios

Similarly, one of my prized recordings is the 1959 boxed set of Harry Belafonte Live at Carnegie Hall. It also used valve mics and has jaw-dropping realism with every tiny detail on and off-stage revealed in a totally fabulous three-dimensional space. I shall look out for the Sinatra - thanks.

By the way, your footer is growing to be longer than some of your posts :)

MartinT
11-05-2009, 10:27
My only slight niggle with it is that it does seem to be quite sensitive to temperature. During the winter it was tracking beautifully at around 1.5g, but with the weather getting warmer, I've had to hike it to around 1.8g as it started sounding a bit messy.

The Vinyl Engine forum is full of the 33PTG's sensitivity to tracking weight. I'm about to install mine (just as soon as my Underwood-modified GCPH arrives) and the concensus seems to be to start around 1.7g and adjust accordingly. I can't wait to get it going - currently admiring it from every angle in its box!

Peter Stockwell
11-05-2009, 12:11
Peter, which Nat King Cole album/recording was it? I've got most of them and none sound "syrupy" - far from it! :)



Somekind of best of, I can't recall the exact title. I've always found Nat King Cole too syrupy, it's the bloody strings with everything that they used to add at the time. Taken in isolation, his voice is not syrupy. The AT33PTG attenuated, for me, the syrupy string presentation. The strings sounded more gutty, as they should!

Marco
11-05-2009, 12:58
Peter,


Somekind of best of, I can't recall the exact title.


There's yer problem... It was probably a duff transfer. Compilations are rarely as good as the orignal albums, IME, or (some) audiophile re-mastered pressings of originals.


I've always found Nat King Cole too syrupy, it's the bloody strings with everything that they used to add at the time.


LOL. Well, I'm the opposite - I love the string sections of the accompanying orchestra, which incidentally have never sounded "syrupy", chez-moi. Quite the contrary, actually: more 'crisply defined and steely-real', with shockingly vivid dynamics and massive 'scale', giving you goose bumps, than "syrupy", which is how they should sound. You need a valve amp and a quality big pair of speakers, monsieur! ;)


Taken in isolation, his voice is not syrupy. The AT33PTG attenuated, for me, the syrupy string presentation. The strings sounded more gutty, as they should!

His voice should definitely not be syrupy. If it is, you've (as in 'one has') definitely got a problem with (one's) system. Some of NKC's albums on Capitol are amongst the finest sounding recordings you'll ever hear (ditto with, for example, those of Dean Martin, Elvis and Frank Sinatra on the same label).

For some reason, Capitol got it *so* right in the mid to late 50s (and into the 60s, too) when recording those artists. I'd love to know the equipment and processes they used... Bring them back, I say!

For a truly 'audiophile musical Nat King Cole experience', try one of these:

http://www.vinyltap.co.uk/shop/item/667332034536865.aspx

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nat-King-Cole-And-His-Trio,-After-Midnight,-1986,-LP_W0QQitemZ200339841075QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090 508?IMSfp=TL090508121003r26981

:)

Marco.

Marco
11-05-2009, 13:16
Hi Martin,


Similarly, one of my prized recordings is the 1959 boxed set of Harry Belafonte Live at Carnegie Hall. It also used valve mics and has jaw-dropping realism with every tiny detail on and off-stage revealed in a totally fabulous three-dimensional space. I shall look out for the Sinatra - thanks.

By the way, your footer is growing to be longer than some of your posts :)


LOL. Hey, such is life! :eyebrows:

I'm not saying that all 1950s recordings were superb; I'm sure many weren't, but experience suggests that some were quite special in terms of recording quality. Those which came into that category, IMO, have rarely been equalled today.

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
11-05-2009, 13:31
There's yer problem... It was probably a duff transfer. Compilations are rarely as good as the orignal albums, IME, or (some) audiophile re-mastered pressings of originals.


I wouldn't say it was duff, I was actually quite impressed compared with how I remembered the album. I'm sure that US originals are better, because ...


Some of NKC's albums on Capitol are amongst the finest sounding recordings you'll ever hear (ditto with, for example, those of Dean Martin, Elvis and Frank Sinatra on the same label).

For some reason, Capitol got it *so* right in the mid to late 50s (and into the 60s, too) when recording those artists. I'd love to know the equipment and processes they used!

I have some 80s reissues, maybe 70s, because they don't have barcodes, of Frank. Yes they sound fabulous. Hang on a minute, Elvis was never on Capitol, or was he ?

Truthfully, I'm going to give a NKC another spin shortly, I was quite taken with it last night. I just, as a rule, don't care for string orchestras on pop or jazz recordings, but as you said that might be because I have a naff system ;)

Marco
11-05-2009, 13:39
Hang on a minute, Elvis was never on Capitol, or was he ?


You may be right. I was probably getting it mixed up with RCA (Victor), which also produced some superb recordings from the same era.

Yep, give NKC another spin, perhaps when you're getting your 'Nat King Cole', as I believe it is affectionately known in some circles :eyebrows: ;)

It may sound rather different this time!

More seriously, if you can get a proper handle on how much better these recordings sound than most of what's produced today, you'll grasp what the likes of a 103SA, SPU, or M3D do with music (when optimised) which no modern MC cartridge, AT33PTG or otherwise, I've heard achieves - and also the type of musical presentation I value and enjoy at home. Those cartridges when used properly are the sonic equivalent of the 50s Capitol recordings we all seem to treasure.

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
11-05-2009, 14:13
More seriously, if you can get a proper handle on how much better these recordings sound than most of what's produced today, you'll grasp what the likes of a 103SA, SPU, or M3D do with music (when optimised) which no modern MC cartridge, AT33PTG or otherwise, I've heard achieves - and also the type of musical presentation I value and enjoy at home. Those cartridges when used properly are the sonic equivalent of the Capitol recordings we all seem to treasure.



At the moment, most listening is done via the squeezebox, for a couple of reasons CDs contain my my more recent tastes (New jazz recordings), and secondly I love the convenience of the SB3.

But, when I do put on a good vinyl recording I'm staggered by the palpability. On the other hand there's good modern recordings too, like,(mumbles) Diana Krall. Seriously, about Diana Krall, she's a fine pianist and a good singer, and I first listened to her 90s NKC tribute, went to see her in concert and was dissappointed.

I've since seen (on TV - Mezzo.tv) an Olympia Concert from 2002, and I was impressed. So I bought the best of with the DVD, mostly for "Heart of Sarurday Night". She too, surprised me through my current rig.

How about that for thread digression ;)

Magna Audio
11-05-2009, 15:23
Have you tried Melody Gardot's new LP on 180g vinyl?

Marco
11-05-2009, 16:19
Peter,


At the moment, most listening is done via the squeezebox, for a couple of reasons CDs contain my my more recent tastes (New jazz recordings), and secondly I love the convenience of the SB3.


This is where we differ. I couldn't give a stuff about convenience when listening to music. Sound quality and 'musical realism' is of far greater importance to me with any piece of audio equipment, save 'ghetto blasters' in the kitchen, etc. At home, I've got my main (computer-free) system, which is superb, and in one car I've got a CD player, and in the other a tape deck, with plenty of CDs and tapes to play in either glove compartment - that does me as far as 'music on the go' is concerned, as I very rarely travel on any form of public transport :)

To be honest, streaming aside through a high quality DAC, the sacrificing of (ultimate) sound quality for convenience is what I hate most about new technology in audio. One wonders for example if it's just sheer coincidence that cartridges such as the DL-103, SPU and M3D (or devices such as Garrards and Lencos), all hail from the same era as those superb Capitol recordings we were discussing. I think not.

In many ways, we've gone more backwards than forwards with hi-fi and the recording of music since its 'halcyon days'.

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
11-05-2009, 17:15
Have you tried Melody Gardot's new LP on 180g vinyl?

Is she any good ?

Peter Stockwell
11-05-2009, 17:16
To be honest, streaming aside through a high quality DAC, the sacrificing of (ultimate) sound quality for convenience is what I hate most about new technology in audio.

I'm inclined to agree with Stan :)

Marco
11-05-2009, 17:28
What does Stan have to say on the subject then, notwithstanding his natural bias as a DAC manufacturer (and his products often being used in conjunction with computer audio), of course! ;)

I trust I've made it clear that my 'beef' is with mass-produced plastic shit such as MP3 players, and low-fi 'music' played on disposable mobile phones, not with computer audio when done well :)

Marco.

twelvebears
11-05-2009, 17:45
While I can completely understand Marco's view that convenience is irrelevant compared to ultimate quality (and my recent significant in the 'black art' shows I agree to a degree), I have to disagree slightly. ;-)

While it does have to be done as well as possible, (in my case lossless files, Intel iMac streaming via ethernet to Apple TV and Beresford 7520) I believe the way it makes any track in my collection instantly has meant I'm more likely to listen to those favorite tracks which my unfortunately be on an album of also-rans.

Before Logitec bought them out Slim Devices strap-line was 'free your music', and to a degree I agree with the sentiment.

I just don't thing great sound needs to be hard work. At least not ALL the time. :-)

Marco
11-05-2009, 17:52
Hi Steve,

I agree to an extent, of course, but the converse of that is having so much music (you'll never truly 'own') stored on your hard-drive which you'll probably never listen to - and indeed often forget that some of it even exists...

I've got a few friends whose 'music collections' on computer fall into that exact category!

I like to *know* the music I own (and that's the case with CDs and records - you own something tangible and 'real') intimately: every CD and record in my collection. I like to read them and touch them, too. This, IMO, is a much more tactile, 'human', and ultimately more enjoyable way of listening to and collecting music.

Each to his or her own, though :)

Here's one to ponder... Who's the more 'genuine' music lover: someone with 20,000 music files stored on their hard-drive(s), of which maybe only 200 are listened to regularly, or someone with, say, 2000 CDs and records they know like the back of their hand? ;)

Marco.

Mike
11-05-2009, 18:23
Here's one to ponder... Who's the more 'genuine' music lover: someone with 20,000 music files stored on their hard-drive(s), of which maybe only 200 are listened to regularly, or someone with, say, 2000 CDs and records they know like the back of their hand? .

Someone with an Audio Technica AT33-PTG is you ask me, which is what we were supposed to be talking about BTW... ;)

Marco
11-05-2009, 18:31
Thread drift such as this is (unfortunately) far more interesting! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
11-05-2009, 18:33
AT33PTG rocks, swings, whatever :)

Stan says that he likes CDs best for ultimate quality. Or at least I think I saw him write that in another thread today.

Marco
11-05-2009, 18:37
So he's saying that in terms of "ultimate quality", sonically one presumes, CDs are better than vinyl (as a DAC manufacturer, quel surprise!) - and you agree given the musical joys your Techy/SME IV delivers?

Tut tut, my boy; I thought you had class... ;)

Marco.

Magna Audio
11-05-2009, 19:38
Is she any good ?

Try

http://www.melodygardot.co.uk/

I still think the Worrisome heart is right up there. Like them both...

Marco
11-05-2009, 19:54
I quite like her :)

Steve, as an aside, I see that you use Tannoy 'HPD'-based speakers... I was contemplating the purchase of a pair of Devons as an occasional alternative to the Spendors, which aside from the 12" drivers used, look remarkably similar to your own Tannoys.

Any idea if they're worth having and what the going rate is for a decent pair? :cool:

Marco.

Peter Stockwell
11-05-2009, 19:55
So he's saying that in terms of "ultimate quality", sonically one presumes, CDs are better than vinyl (as a DAC manufacturer, quel surprise!) - and you agree given the musical joys your Techy/SME IV delivers?

Tut tut, my boy; I thought you had class... ;)

Marco.

I expressed myself badly, I think it's arguable based on pressings , etc between LP and CD. I meant between CD and streamed audio.

Marco
11-05-2009, 20:05
So you're saying that Stan prefers CD to streaming and considers the former of superior audio quality?

Interesting. All I can say then is that he's not heard an optimally set-up streaming system! For me, it's a no-brainer: streaming WAVs through the latter via a top-notch DAC is the closest thing we have to the audio quality of vinyl, in terms of new technology - and I say that owning (possibly) one of the best CD players (and DACs) ever made.

Marco.

DSJR
11-05-2009, 20:57
I quite like her :)

Steve, as an aside, I see that you use Tannoy 'HPD'-based speakers... I was contemplating the purchase of a pair of Devons as an occasional alternative to the Spendors, which aside from the 12" drivers used, look remarkably similar to your own Tannoys.

Any idea if they're worth having and what the going rate is for a decent pair? :cool:

Marco.

I like the Devons, which means you'll HATE them :lol: :ner: They're coloured in the mid (but not as bad as JBL L100/4310's) they shriek in the top, but with your LP system it won't matter, but I'm not sure about the bass.

They sounded good on the Virgin Dolby A master tapes we had for dem - Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells and Ommadawn will never sound so good again :gig: :cool:

Peter Stockwell
12-05-2009, 06:32
So you're saying that Stan prefers CD to streaming and considers the former of superior audio quality?

That's what I inferred from a post I saw of his yesterday.


I don't have problems with mp3 for most of my music. The 'good' stuff I still prefer on CD anyhow.

Stan

Before my CDX got lost, I thought that a CD sounded better than the same mastering via the squeezebox from Apple Lossless. True, the Squeezebox passes ALAC to FLAC before decoding, so there's some processing involved. And the interconnect cable isn't the same. In truth it wasn't dramatic, just something that snuck up on me over a period of time.

I've had Audiocom Bybee the CDX, but I'm having some difficulty (understatement) getting it back, I'd like to see how the CDX breathed on compares.

To get back on track, the AT33PTG does things that I've heard no other cartridge do like subtle dynamic shadings and sense of life. I'm well pleased with mine,a nd I'm nearly always surprised at how good LPs sound, and in the case of Nat King Cole it's changed my mind completely about the quality of the music.

Which is the important bit.

Magna Audio
12-05-2009, 09:00
I quite like her :)

Steve, as an aside, I see that you use Tannoy 'HPD'-based speakers... I was contemplating the purchase of a pair of Devons as an occasional alternative to the Spendors, which aside from the 12" drivers used, look remarkably similar to your own Tannoys.

Any idea if they're worth having and what the going rate is for a decent pair? :cool:

Marco.

I've not heard the Devon's. I had a pair of Dorsets (10" DC with a 10" passive). These were very good in mids and highs but lacked the grunt and tonal balance on stuff like percussion and piano of the 15"'ers I now have.
I have heard a pair of 12" DMT's and thought them very good in all dept apart from that thing the 15" still does a bit better.

If you have the room then the 15"'ers are the ones everyone recommends.
i hope to be building a music room extension 5m x 4m and then will recab the HPD's into ~180 to 200L cabs. Rect. GRF's I think. Then they will really sing...

Mine saw off the 3000 ProAc D25's I previously has with consummate ease (to my ears).

The 70's cabs let the drivers down so say... If you are in a position to recab 12" HPD's that would improve them i reckon.

I've found if you don't give silly money you can always recoup your outlay if you move them on. Just watch you back - the ones I have are the baby HPD cabs and still weigh in at 35KG each.

Price wise. 12" DMT seem to go for ~350 - 550 2nd hand - They have the matt grey finish. This is outstanding value for the sound you get. The Berkeleys I have see go for 600 - 900 some people ask silly prices, so Devons are perhaps around 300 - 600.

There's a pair of Mansfield 12" for 475 BIN on Fleabay at the mo'.
Have to check my specs at home to compare cabs with the Devons...

DSJR
12-05-2009, 09:15
I think DMT's would be the way to go, as they have the later and better tweeter and a later crossover with modern thinking regarding the level adjustments/switching etc. I think the driver surrounds are better with the DMT's as well, but could be wrong.

The HPD issue tweeters have a bit of a squawk at 3KHz and multiple nasties above 9KHz or so. The tulip waveguide is supposed to all but cure this and the old "pepperpot" has been resurrected I suspect for the lucrative far eastern market (my presumption..). I like tht look of the DMT's too and would have enjoyed some at home instead of the ATC's I suspect, had they been more widely available in the UK and outside of the pro market.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DevonReview.jpg

Magna Audio
18-05-2009, 12:24
I've had the chance the compare an Ortofon MC25 on my turntables and the 33 PTG consummately wiped the floor with the Orto to my ears...
I know the Orto is now out of production but they were at least in similar price class. Another one up for the 33 PTG.

DSJR
18-05-2009, 18:46
The PTG these days should sell for 500 at least - actually getting on for a grand I think.

Twenty odd years ago, the price difference from budget to expensive cartridges was huge - baby Ortofons which now sell for 75 were around 30 back then and the AT33ML was a good few hundred at the time.

I still can't reconcile how some cartridges have stayed fairly static in price (apart from currency changes recently), whereas others have gone up by nearly three times their late eighties cost.

Mike
18-05-2009, 20:36
The PTG these days should sell for 500 at least - actually getting on for a grand I think.

:uhho: Blimey!... did I mention mine only cost 185! :lol: :sofa:

Magna Audio
19-05-2009, 12:23
Those are / were high prices and Mike, you got a bargain.
Mine was reasonable enough through Audiocubes2 considering it's performance.

MartinT
19-05-2009, 13:09
I paid 280 from Audiocubes for my AT33PTG and consider it a bargain, especially as the OC9 has gone up to around the 400 mark.

Mike
19-05-2009, 15:46
Those are / were high prices and Mike, you got a bargain.
Mine was reasonable enough through Audiocubes2 considering it's performance.

Well TBH, it was more good luck that good judgement. I just happened to buy it just before the became worth pegs & buttons on the international market.

I'd be interested to hear what values others set their tracking force and phono stage loading at?

I'm dieing to do some playing with mine since fitting the JMW tonearm but the motor unit is still away getting supercharged at the moment... :(

Cheers...

Marco
19-05-2009, 16:33
Well TBH, it was more good luck that good judgement. I just happened to buy it just before the became worth pegs & buttons on the international market.


<Snigger> "Good luck", my arse! It was me who originally recommended the 33PTG to you, otherwise you'd have known bugger all about it! :lol: ;)

Marco.

Mike
19-05-2009, 16:39
But did you tell me WHEN to but it?... did you buggery! :upyours:

I was talking about the timing of the purchase numb nuts! :ner:

Marco
19-05-2009, 16:50
When to "but it"? :lolsign:

Anyway, this I know - I was just gently reminding you of what prompted your purchase of the cartridge in the first place ;)

Marco.

Mike
19-05-2009, 16:53
When to "but it"? :lolsign:

So I type like a knob, what's new! :confused:

Your recommendation is on the forum somewhere as a matter of record, whaddaya want, a medal! :ner:

Marco
19-05-2009, 17:08
Yesh, shweety - you can pin it on my big "but"! :lolsign: :lol: :ner:

My apologies to all our sensible members - normal service will be resumed shortly.

Marco.

Mike
19-05-2009, 17:16
<mumbles under breath about spaghetti wielding haggis muncher>

So!... what about VTF and loading then? :)

Marco
19-05-2009, 18:11
1.8g and 100k ohms should do nicely :)

Marco.

Mike
19-05-2009, 18:21
1.8g and 100k ohms should do nicely :)

Marco.

Oh I doubt that very much! :D

MartinT
19-05-2009, 18:59
1.8g and 100k ohms should do nicely

You meant, of course, 100 Ohms :)

I've settled on 1.8g and 500 Ohms as sounding a little more open.

Marco
19-05-2009, 19:10
LOL! Haha, I was typing that as I was speaking to someone on the phone (multi-talented, me - obviously not! :lol:)

Yes, of course: 100 Ohms :)

No reason why not to experiment with loading, though, like Martin has. The effect heard will of course be system-dependent.

Marco.

DSJR
19-05-2009, 21:59
Don't AT's prefer 1.5 grammes once run in?

Marco
19-05-2009, 22:18
I don't know; I haven't 'asked' any of them! :lolsign:

Marco.

P.S More seriously, much will depend on the sonic signature of the partnering system and the preferences of the user.