Austerity and 2nd hand hi-fi

[The Outcast]

I have noticed comments posted on this and other forums with regards to surprise as to why some items haven't sold. I have just been looking at an item for sale in private exhibitions which (thank heavens) has now sold in the form of an Ortofon 2M black. I have an item for sale myself and had no interest whatsoever. I put it down to the fact that people are being very cautious at the present instead of having a punt at things. Austerity has hit everyone and it is evident here. At one time items like the one i have for sale would have sold in a heartbeat. I have noticed a few must have items on a few forums not even receiving a comment. This baffles me as i think that there has never been a better time to buy things that will far out perform things in the budget to mid range of manufacturerers product lines for a lot less money. I think like most other things austerity has hit the hub of the hi-fi community, the folks trading their 2nd hand equipment that are usually an absolute steal.
It has always been the case that most audiophiles/hi-fi enthusiasts could always find spare cash to spend on their beloved past time one way or another, though i am afraid that with the exception of the few many people will be spending their hi-fi cash on groceries.
I am surprised that there aren't as many bargains to be had from Greece! Despite the austerity and the effect it's had on people's disposable income, hi-fi is still a great hobby and still the best way of enjoying music in the home environment. Power to the people!!!!!!!!!!!!!:yay:

[Ali Tait]

Time of year too, stuff doesn't sell in the summer.

[Andrew B]

Even dealers 2nd hand items seem to be cheaper and not really shifting. Naim stuff still seems to be faring better than most, but I've not known things to be this slow before.

[kenworthy100]

There does seem to be a decline coupled with greater availability, I have noticed this month more of the upper end Naim preamps coming on the market at still what seem quite high prices but not the disproportionate figures they were a year ago.

[Clive]

The summer is a REALLY bad time to sell but a great time to buy. Has been for years though I'm sure as us olduns die out or our hearing goes the trend will be downwards.

[StanleyB]

This baffles me as i think that there has never been a better time to buy things that will far out perform things in the budget to mid range of manufacturerers product lines for a lot less money.
The days when expensive audio components far outperformed budget and midrange components are now mostly behind us. The logarithmic laws of diminishing returns are now far better known and understood by even the average buyer. The majority of those selling off their expensive components are using the funds to buy better or equal but cheaper. This is creating a glut of once highly desirable gear that can't be shifted so easily.

[walpurgis]

Not too sure about that Stan. I keep a close eye on eBay Hi-Fi listings and the price trend for respected older gear has been very much upwards in the last year or two, availablity seems reduced too, I think people are tending to hang onto good stuff (I do). Due to the summer season we are at a low point for sales and prices, it happens every year, but by October prices and turnover will be high.

I'm very much in favour of buying good older equipment. I had a now defunct, discussion thread in eBay forum 'groups' called "The Hi-Fi Shoestring Project" aimed exactly at this and advising and encouraging eBay members interested in Hi-Fi as to how to save money, what to look out for and to submit ideas for projects and advice.

I considered starting a similar thread here, but much of the subject matter gets covered anyway.

[Stubies]

Good point, it would make sense for more deals to be available than seems to be the case - especially from the locations where there is the most impact.

searching on ebay for things from Greece, there's not much, some paintings, stamps and something called 'PURE APHRODISIAC POWDER FROM MOUNT OLYMPUS'

Of course, the Greeks didnt like the idea of selling some islands either, does it seem a bit stubborn all around?

[StanleyB]

Not too sure about that Stan. I keep a close eye on eBay Hi-Fi listings and the price trend for respected older gear has been very much upwards in the last year or two,
A lot of people are buying the old gear so that they can try to find out for themselves what the hype is all about. This has created a market of increasing prices. It's a bubble that will burst. I looked at a couple is listing of older equipment and noticed that many buyers were disposing of their new purchase within weeks if not months. After having recovered from the errors of their ways and seen sense it's back on eBay whilst they can recover most if not all of the purchase price.

[Reffc]

A lot of people are buying the old gear so that they can try to find out for themselves what the hype is all about. This has created a market of increasing prices. It's a bubble that will burst. I looked at a couple is listing of older equipment and noticed that many buyers were disposing of their new purchase within weeks if not months. After having recovered from the errors of their ways and seen sense it's back on eBay whilst they can recover most if not all of the purchase price.

Perhaps, but it depends on the kit in question. Look at the unrealistic price rises in the past 24 months for Garrard (301/401), Tannoy Gold and HPD, Thorens TD124 (good examples now £1000 plus), Celestion Ditton 66's and the like. No bubble to burst there as these rock solid performers will go on making decent music for years to come, and many see them as an investment. With a shortage of supply and steady demand, the bubble hasn't burst and I suspect they'll hold values very well indeed for a good few years to come. There are tiers of used kit "below" that level (if I may use that term without intending to be derogatory) some of which, like the pioneer A400, enjoyed a mini resurgence for a year or two but are now sinking back into more realistic low used prices. Ditto, things like CDPs, especially since streaming and DACs have taken over the new market. However, decent loudspeakers, turntables and amplifiers are holding values well. Amps seem to have reached a peak and with a better informed enthusiast base, aren't quite as collectable as loudspeakers or turntables but continue to hold value, especially well looked after vintage gear like Leak or Radford amps.

What this says about the current industry is quite interesting. With the TT's and speakers especially, it says that some people are more willing to invest in some decent (restored perhaps) vintage gear rather than buy new. I have some sympathy, especially where loudspeakers are concerned, but things like vintage TT's however well thought of, can be matched for similar money, so it boils down to people wanting them (kudos or purely for the collecting).

There's never been such a good time to buy good used kit for sensible money. Paradoxically, there's never been such high prices for some vintage kit.

[Rare Bird]

People just don't have the money, i certainly don't. be lucky if i can spend £200.00 a month to myself & that is with working twice as many hours as the standard week. :steam:

[StanleyB]

be lucky if i can spend £200.00 a month to myself & that is with working twice as many hours as the standard week. :steam:
Been there as well Andre. I met up with some old workmates from the 80's for a meal a month or so ago. One of the guys is terminally ill so it was an excuse to get together whilst he is still able to go out. We were talking about the after normal hours and weekends overtime most of us had to undertake just to put food on the table and pay the mortgage at about 12 to 15% then. It made me a better person. And I packed away my stereo from those days in October 1987. I didn't unpack them till about 2007.... Most of them are now back in use and worth a small fortune on fleebay

[BTH K10A]

[QUOTE=Reffc;475504]Perhaps, but it depends on the kit in question. Look at the unrealistic price rises in the past 24 months for Garrard (301/401), Tannoy Gold and HPD, Thorens TD124 (good examples now £1000 plus), Celestion Ditton 66's and the like. No bubble to burst there as these rock solid performers will go on making decent music for years to come, and many see them as an investment. With a shortage of supply and steady demand, the bubble hasn't burst and I suspect they'll hold values very well indeed for a good few years to come. There are tiers of used kit "below" that level (if I may use that term without intending to be derogatory) some of which, like the pioneer A400, enjoyed a mini resurgence for a year or two but are now sinking back into more realistic low used prices. Ditto, things like CDPs, especially since streaming and DACs have taken over the new market. However, decent loudspeakers, turntables and amplifiers are holding values well. Amps seem to have reached a peak and with a better informed enthusiast base, aren't quite as collectable as loudspeakers or turntables but continue to hold value, especially well looked after vintage gear like Leak or Radford amps.

I would agree. The best vintage equipment was invariably the most expensive in it's day or was virtually unobtainable to the general public, i.e. made for for cinemas or recording studios. It was usually built without any considerations towards cost, with performance and reliability being the main criteria. This kit will just keep rising in value due to desirability and rarity whilst more commonplace but often very good kit will be subject to market fluctuations, driven but the state of various economies around the world or, "discovery" by some hifi guru with a following. Hifi that was mediocre or crap in it's day remains so today.

In reality, apart from the advent of digital there is very little new technology in hifi and the best designs of old can more than hold their own against the best modern offerings.