Nearly there....just added some petite Sonus Fabers..

[purplepyramid]

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/sugarmiceimages/Elipsa-Auditor-on-RS303-no2_zpsec347dc3.jpg (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/sugarmiceimages/media/Elipsa-Auditor-on-RS303-no2_zpsec347dc3.jpg.html)

Hello! I hope this photo works okay. Here's my system so far (after 33 years), I think I am nearly there after many years of development. My last investment were the fantastic little Sonus Faber Elipsa Auditor speakers. Very pleased to find a Graaf GM50 valve to replace my Naim/Linn set up. Looking to tweak it with some better cables, the Linn and Naim speaker cables sound rather fat and 'thick' sounding. Sources are the (now rather old) Linn-Ittok-Troika and Naim CDSII.:)

Thanks for looking

[The Grand Wazoo]

Hi Mark,
That looks good. Are you able to pull the speakers out a little? I expect they'd enjoy a little elbow room!

[loo]

Hi Mark, lovely system you have there
more pics of the Graaf please (one of my fave intergrated valve amps)
those Sonus Fabers look fantastic too
:)

[jason]

Nice looking set up Mark those speakers and stands look very nice:):dance:

[pjdowns]

Wow very nice looking system there Mark - thought I saw a CDS2 there :)

Paul.

[The Black Adder]

Excellent.. Very nice setup. Good move ousting the Naim for the Graaf IMO. :)

Cables n valves, swap n roll!!! :) Enjoy!

[purplepyramid]

Thanks Guys. :)
In reply to some of the questions - the Sonus Fabers sound quite spacious as they are in an alcove. Bringing them out more seems to make the soundstage vague. Pushing them back gives them way to much bass. (I rejected the larger Cremonas because they put out loads more bass than my small room could handle).
I'd love to take some nice shots of the outside of the Graaf but the shiney black finish and refective window make it a devil to photograph. I can post some nice shots of its interior!
The stands are Custom Design RS303 which I had modified to get the eliptical toplate to match the speaker. Its a shame SF don't make a custom stand. Yes the CD player is the CDS2, not sure its the last word against newer competitors but it sounds okay.
Cheers
Mark

[purplepyramid]

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/sugarmiceimages/IMG_1847opt_250_zpscd4c5ba1.jpg (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/sugarmiceimages/media/IMG_1847opt_250_zpscd4c5ba1.jpg.html)

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/sugarmiceimages/IMG_1840opt2_250_zpsfcc2beaf.jpg (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/sugarmiceimages/media/IMG_1840opt2_250_zpsfcc2beaf.jpg.html)

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/sugarmiceimages/valves-sat-glow-sml_zps5c4ae6d1.jpg (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/sugarmiceimages/media/valves-sat-glow-sml_zps5c4ae6d1.jpg.html)

A self indulgent one to finish:)

[loo]

Wow you beat me to it was just gonna ask for some internal pics of Mr Mariani's wonderful QC.
I am totally biased but I love Graaf amps , I don't know anything about your CD player but if it does not have balanced outputs ditch it for one that does same with your phonostage to really get the best from your GM50 balanced operation is the way to go:)
Enjoy your system its Lovely:)
Paul

[loo]

Hi , just read my previous post and it reads like I am crapping your CD player, sorry as that was not my intension I was just getting over excited by your amp:eyebrows:
Paul

[purplepyramid]

No worries :)
The Naim CDS2 may have to go sometime, I have longing for a CD player with tubes in....:)

[Marco]

Hi Mark,

Welcome to AoS. Lovely system - I'm sure that it gives you many hours of musical pleasure! :)

If I were you, I'd think long and hard before changing the CDS2 for something 'better' with valves... I owned a CDS2 for years, and it's a superb piece of kit - far better than the majority of CDPs produced these days. If you're looking to genuinely upgrade from it, you'll need to spend quite a few grand, so I hope that your pockets are deep! ;)

I can say from experience (as a valve 'nut' myself), that the majority of CDPs, using valves in the output stage, are a huge compromise, and that valves are introduced merely as a 'bandage', in order to tame the rather 'spikey' top-end of most modern CD players and induce some euphonic coloration, which may produce a pleasing effect in some systems.

My advice, unless you have at least £3k to spend on a new CDP, is to leave well alone and instead upgrade those horrible Electro-Harmonix valves inside your (lovely) GRAAF! Trust me, you can do so much better, and replacing them with something like some nice NOS Brimars/Teslas/Mullards, etc, depending on taste, will provide you with a much more significant sonic upgrade than you're likely to get by replacing the CDS2 with your average valve-based CDP.

Just my 2p worth, mate, but it's based on considerable experience. Anyway, whatever you do, enjoy the music! :cool:

Marco.

[purplepyramid]

Thanks for the advice Marco:)
I don't want to immeadiately get rid of the CDSII but must admit to love the looks of the Shanlings and was also looking at the new PrimaLuna.

Interested to hear about the upgrade to the valves - I know very little about valves coming from a Naim amp background.
I did replace the original output valves in the Graaf (6550 Svetlana?) with Gold Lion KT88s. This was, I think an improvement, but only tonally. Sound became smoother and slightly more laid back with better depth.

My next upgrade (nearly final?) will be choosing what speaker cable to move to from Naim NAC5 (too beefy and thick sounding).:scratch:

Cheers
Mark

[purplepyramid]

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/sugarmiceimages/graaf-IMG_9812_zps68d12586.jpg (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/sugarmiceimages/media/graaf-IMG_9812_zps68d12586.jpg.html)

The best I could do I'm afraid, the finish is so reflective its difficult to get the great black finish to show up.

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/sugarmiceimages/Graaf-closeup1IMG_9825_zps3ff3f6fc.jpg (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/sugarmiceimages/media/Graaf-closeup1IMG_9825_zps3ff3f6fc.jpg.html)

And some close ups of the gorgeous Elipsa Auditors

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/sugarmiceimages/SF-vlose-upIMG_9795_zps58b9b1d8.jpg (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/sugarmiceimages/media/SF-vlose-upIMG_9795_zps58b9b1d8.jpg.html)

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/sugarmiceimages/SF2-IMG_9798_zps2b1a5105.jpg (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/sugarmiceimages/media/SF2-IMG_9798_zps2b1a5105.jpg.html)

[loo]

Hi Mark, thanks for the extra pics great to see another Graaf owner on Aos ,I agree with Marco some nice vintage nos 6922's would be nice in there although the Graaf makes the most of the EH valves. But honestly nothing will give you the improvement that using the Graaf through the balanced inputs does.
enjoy your classic Italian beauties :)
Paul

[purplepyramid]

You'll have to excuse my ignorance of the valve world. I've no idea about improved valves for the Graaf - aren't the KT88s supposed to be the best?
I replaced my 6550 Svetlanas for some KT88 Genalex Gold Lions which sound warmer (better) and more tube like.
Are the 6922 better, do you recommend any manufacturer? Someone said the input valves make more of a difference than the output ones?

Also I've no idea about balanced inputs, I assume you need a phono stage or CDP with a balanced output (which I don't think I have?) and also use the xlr leads instead of the RCAs on the balanced inputs of ther Graaf?:scratch:

Cheers!
Mark

[loo]

Hi Mark, sorry for the confusion the 6922 valves I mentioned are the small input valves there are 4 in your Graaf those are the ones Marco referred to with the electro harmonix label, there are also 2 6A30 driver valves and 4 kt88 output valves you can also use kt90's which will give you more power but are not as warm sounding as kt88's. with regard to balanced operation yes you need a balanced source and use the xlr inputs on the amp , but because the gm50 is a fully balanced circuit its performance will benefit greatly by taking advantage of it.
I cant help with recommends for CD players but there are a few very good balanced phonostages around at reasonable money one that springs to mind is the Project RS , having said that your Graaf is a sublime amp using the single ended inputs so I would not be in a rush to go balanced.
Paul

[Audio Al]

Very slick looking system

If it sounds as good as it looks you are a happy man :)

[Spectral Morn]

Lovely looking and I bet nice sounding system I never got to hear a Graff integrated, maybe someday.

Regards Ne

[purplepyramid]

Thanks for the information Loo. I'll look into the input valves and the driver valves, with the makers Marco recommended. :)
I was looking around maybe for a valve Phono stage but I am guessing the Linto is a hard act to beat with the Linn front end.
If a GM70 comes up on Ebay....

[purplepyramid]

Hi Mark,

Welcome to AoS. Lovely system - I'm sure that it gives you many hours of musical pleasure! :)

If I were you, I'd think long and hard before changing the CDS2 for something 'better' with valves... I owned a CDS2 for years, and it's a superb piece of kit - far better than the majority of CDPs produced these days. If you're looking to genuinely upgrade from it, you'll need to spend quite a few grand, so I hope that your pockets are deep! ;)

I can say from experience (as a valve 'nut' myself), that the majority of CDPs, using valves in the output stage, are a huge compromise, and that valves are introduced merely as a 'bandage', in order to tame the rather 'spikey' top-end of most modern CD players and induce some euphonic coloration, which may produce a pleasing effect in some systems.

My advice, unless you have at least £3k to spend on a new CDP, is to leave well alone and instead upgrade those horrible Electro-Harmonix valves inside your (lovely) GRAAF! Trust me, you can do so much better, and replacing them with something like some nice NOS Brimars/Teslas/Mullards, etc, depending on taste, will provide you with a much more significant sonic upgrade than you're likely to get by replacing the CDS2 with your average valve-based CDP.

Just my 2p worth, mate, but it's based on considerable experience. Anyway, whatever you do, enjoy the music! :cool:

Marco.


Hello Marco,
Thanks very much for the advice on better tubes. Looked at the mine of information of the web, Watford valves etc and now thoroughly confused! Do the makers you have recommended produce a certain 'tonal sound'? Or are each model they produce different? I like a warm but focused soundstage particularly the vocal range, maybe the low bass could do with a slight tighten...? if anything springs to mind.. thanks very much for your advice.

Mark

[The Black Adder]

Hi Mark,

Welcome to AoS. Lovely system - I'm sure that it gives you many hours of musical pleasure! :)

If I were you, I'd think long and hard before changing the CDS2 for something 'better' with valves... I owned a CDS2 for years, and it's a superb piece of kit - far better than the majority of CDPs produced these days. If you're looking to genuinely upgrade from it, you'll need to spend quite a few grand, so I hope that your pockets are deep! ;)

I can say from experience (as a valve 'nut' myself), that the majority of CDPs, using valves in the output stage, are a huge compromise, and that valves are introduced merely as a 'bandage', in order to tame the rather 'spikey' top-end of most modern CD players and induce some euphonic coloration, which may produce a pleasing effect in some systems.

My advice, unless you have at least £3k to spend on a new CDP, is to leave well alone and instead upgrade those horrible Electro-Harmonix valves inside your (lovely) GRAAF! Trust me, you can do so much better, and replacing them with something like some nice NOS Brimars/Teslas/Mullards, etc, depending on taste, will provide you with a much more significant sonic upgrade than you're likely to get by replacing the CDS2 with your average valve-based CDP.

Just my 2p worth, mate, but it's based on considerable experience. Anyway, whatever you do, enjoy the music! :cool:

Marco.

Top brass!

Yep. I agree entirely... The GRAAF is a lovely amp. Get those valves rollied.

[loo]

Thanks for the information Loo. I'll look into the input valves and the driver valves, with the makers Marco recommended. :)
I was looking around maybe for a valve Phono stage but I am guessing the Linto is a hard act to beat with the Linn front end.
If a GM70 comes up on Ebay....

Hi Mark your welcome, a GM70 would be nice also BAT make some very nice all valve fully balanced phonostages that would be sublime with the Graaf and the Sondek for that matter .Good luck with the 6922 search nos valves can command silly prices one of my personal reasonable cost favourites is the Sylvania 7308 but even those are getting rarer.
Enjoy it as it is its still one of the best valve intergrated amps period :)
Paul

[purplepyramid]

Thanks for all the comments guys. Looking forward to rolling some tubes. It sure is a weird world in tube land - cryo valves and new old stock from before the war...at amazing prices, some of them.
Added some Yter cable recently, that I bought second hand, which has improved the overall sound markedly.
Maybe I haven't quite finished....

Cheers
Mark

[purplepyramid]

Took the opportunity to take some photos inside the Graaf before I replaced the 6922 valves:

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/sugarmiceimages/IMG_9884_zps1291284a.jpg (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/sugarmiceimages/media/IMG_9884_zps1291284a.jpg.html)

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/sugarmiceimages/IMG_9871_zpsbfcc4804.jpg (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/sugarmiceimages/media/IMG_9871_zpsbfcc4804.jpg.html)

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/sugarmiceimages/IMG_9928_zps8198cb13.jpg (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/sugarmiceimages/media/IMG_9928_zps8198cb13.jpg.html)

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/sugarmiceimages/IMG_9936_zps2f475cc4.jpg (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/sugarmiceimages/media/IMG_9936_zps2f475cc4.jpg.html)

[loo]

Hi Mark, looking nice , have you bought some 6922's for the Graaf or just starting the hunt:)
Paul

[purplepyramid]

Hi Paul,

After much looking through forums etc I went for some 1960's 'white labelled' Dutch Amperex ECC88 matched quads (!). I hope they will be okay. Haven't had time to sit down and listen but will do some serious listening at the weekend....:)

Cheers
Mark

[loo]

:wow: You got good taste:)
They should be great ,
A great place for technical advice for your amp is twitter, Graaf maintain a page and are usually very prompt in answering questions , far better than their email:)
enjoy those valves
Paul

[purplepyramid]

Started warming up the new Dutch valves then promptly caught flu for a week. Blocked up ears and elephant stampede on head effect.

First listening post germs was stunning compared to the original EH tubes. The sound was clean, the soundstage was massive in comparison and the transparency was in a different league. So far so good. However on extended listening I felt the female vocals especially has a prominance and felt a bit thin. This seemed to be common through the upper mid / low treble and drew attention to it. Sax had a great rasping edge but didn't have as much body as I would have liked. The other downside of the Amperex was the significant increase in surface niose (on vinyl) - something I just don't like.

Luckily I had some Tesla E88CCs to swap in and although they didn't have the massive sound stage, clarity or transparency of the Amperex, they sounded richer and gave a lower vinyl surface noise.

I'm still keen to try out some Mitchum made GB 2493 Mullards as they are said to be the richest sounding tubes around so I'm on the hunt....finding matched quads isn't going to easy, especially at a reasonable price.....

Thanks Paul for the Twitter advice re Graaf :) I guess I thought they were a bit moribund. Their curious new ss GM400 amp (anyone heard it?) seems to be on a totally new web site and the old site hasn't been updated at all

Cheers Mark

[purplepyramid]

http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/sugarmiceimages/guarneris/4G6A9526_zpse89vshfi.jpg (http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/sugarmiceimages/media/guarneris/4G6A9526_zpse89vshfi.jpg.html)

When I said I was nearly there - I think i really meant to say I had a little way to go...

The Graaf I sadly said farewell to (swapped for a Radikal) and replaced with the muscle bound McIntosh MA2275. Then added a MC152 for more power...Oh and the CDS2 and Elipsa Auditors had to go to Ebay heaven....:( sorry guys...

I have a horrible feeling this post will come out in the wrong order in the thread..apologies if it does

[guitarcul]

Hi Mark,

I was hoping to PM you, but doesn't look like I can do it on your profile. I have exactly the same SF Auditor Elipsa as you used to have as on P1 of this thread and I am wanting to get a pair of custom stands made and have been talking to Custom Design in Newcastle. I was hoping to use the same template as you used so I don't have to pay for a new one to be made and also to save the hassle of supplying all the measurement info to them.

They can't find your template without your name, so if possible could you PM me your name or if you prefer contact Custom Design with your info. Also I would love to get your opinion on the stands you had made and also the kind of improvements you experienced changing to the Momentos.

Many thanks,
Mark

[purplepyramid]

Hi Mark, PM'd you