View Full Version : Tonight's fiddling

28-02-2008, 12:23
Well, tonight will signify my experimental move from 5 channel to two channel, I was flicking through my processor's instruction manual last night and it appears that it has two digital outputs which I didn't realise, although there are a million and one connections on the rear panel and I've never needed digital out before. So my plan is this:

1. Obtain a longer Toslink cable so I can move the DAC closer to the processor and still connect it to the Mac. I will need a 5 metre cable which is still well within the (alleged) 21 feet maximum limit as stated by Toshiba, the gain loss is 0.2dB per metre via Toslink but that's easily made up by the exceptionally high output from the DAC (5v). Not a problem really as I don't listen at high volumes.

2. Run a cable from the coaxial digital out from the processor into the coaxial input on the DAC thereby using the processor as a pre-amp (for AV only) and retaining the remote control volume. The output from the Mac will still go straight into the DAC and directly to the power amp.

3. Switch the PS3 to stereo output so that the processor only locks on to the stereo audio track.

4. Move the spare Target B10 rack out of the bedroom (the one I freed up by removing components) and back into the lounge, move the current rack over a bit to make room for the other one... basically move the whole sodding room around.

If I like it (and I'm sure I will) then it means I can remove the KEF centre, the Polk fronts and the Mission rears and the SE24 stands, more room for the two channel to breath and less visual clutter which as I get older starts to annoy me more and more. :)

Wish me luck!

28-02-2008, 19:00
Smart move. I have reduced my speaker count to just two. My 2nd pre/power amp set up with its fast amount of features isn't even plugged in theses days. I just use my old but not cold V-FET power amp with its two channels.
Nothing against 5.1, but it is a fake representation of the sound stage and frequency distribution.

04-03-2008, 13:30

One word of warning, be careful of the output sample rate settings, if they don't match the acceptable input rate on the DAC there's some harsh noises to be jammed through the amp.

Anyway, tried it but just couldn't get into it to be honest. The clarity is obviously better but it seems that the DVD producers have placed the stereo track on as an after thought. I'm guessing that most folk who run their DVDs through a hi-fi will have a processor of some kind and those who don't will only be listening through the TV anyway.

So it was worth a try, gave me a chance to tidy up and collate my equipment, but there wasn't the same all-enveloping environment. Back to 5.1 I go. :)

07-04-2008, 13:10
Seems my attempts to set up a 2nd system in the newly refurbed basement are doomed to failure due to negative wife approval measurements.
Got the big flat telly in place, and rigged up an old pair of Royd Edens on stands, but they had to go because it spoilt the clean looks down there.

07-04-2008, 13:18
Can the wife not move out instead?

PRIORITIES Steve! :lol:

07-04-2008, 15:06
I know ...I know.

As a mate of mine once said, in a very drunken slur...

" Our Sue (he's from York) may wear the trousers in our house...but I f****n iron 'em "

Chris Frost
08-04-2008, 11:34
" Our Sue (he's from York) may wear the trousers in our house...but I f****n iron 'em " :D

I have a home cinema install business. There may be some technology I know about that could help with what you are doing.

What is it you're trying to achieve?

08-04-2008, 12:57
Well...nothing too dramatic, just a sort of inner contentment to ease my mid life crisis.

08-04-2008, 13:02
...hang on. Let me find a pic that says a thousand words..:)

08-04-2008, 13:14

Where the small Marshall is, I stuck some old stand mounts fed by some Linn (kairn/lk140/genki) which sat quite nicely in the TV rack. Anyway...I think she did have a point..

Previously the basement was very very cluttered...and she does put up with my main system and 2000 vinyl albums in the sitting room

So now exploring Q acoustics Q-AV, although I'd probably have to get their TV stand to fit the speaker unit under the telly.
I already have a pair of white flatish speakers that'll go on the back wall with the wiring already in place. Possibly something similar at the front end, and a discreet sub like wot Q Acoustics do might gain acceptance.

Chris Frost
08-04-2008, 16:34
That's a coincidence. I was going to mention the Q-AV system because it is discrete and a good choice if you are on a budget. Then there's the Yamaha YSP sound bars which also save a lot of space because they have the amplifiers built in to them.

Finally, there's the more conventional sub-sat systems based around a single box amp/disc player such as an Arcam Solo Movie. Speakers range from inceiling, inwall or something more conventional. I sell quite a few Monitor Audio Radius systems. Radius90 are excellent as an AV satellite that does very well at music. They're pretty small too at just 190 x 120 x 140 mm HWD. The Radius270 floorstanders are very elegant and equally slimline. They share the same 120x140mm cross section of the R90's.

Personally I would go with wall mounting the TV and front satellites, or perhaps look at the pencil thin Radius 270 floor standers. I'd get rid of the glass rack and choose something solid in wood with open & slot-back doors. This will hide the gear and the inevitable cable trails.

The icing on the cake is a radio frequency intelligent remote; a Nevo Q50 or one of the Prontos. This may seem like an extravagance but so was aircon in cars at one time. Trust me, have one of these professionally programmed at it will make the system a joy to use.

I supply and install all this sort of gear on a daily basis. It's decent stuff without breaking the bank.


08-04-2008, 16:53
Cheers Chris
Thats really useful.
Sadly I hadn't realised I was going to be faced with the reaction I did. I had already got 8 single sockets on a dedicated spur on the wall behind the TV...so you can guess where I thought I was going with all this :doh::doh::doh:

Anyway..when I'm nearer to a proper solution, I'll give you a shout. Pity you are so far away though :mental:

Chris Frost
08-04-2008, 19:30
Pity you are so far away though :mental:Why, where are you?

08-04-2008, 21:17
`the mean streets of Nantwich ...:)

Chris Frost
08-04-2008, 21:38
You're kidding. Nantwich, really? Are you pulling my leg?

09-04-2008, 06:04
LOL..(as my kids say)
Its a small world.

09-04-2008, 06:11
OK..another question Chris, if thats OK.
Do the Sony and Q-AV systems fill the front end of a room, if you know what I mean. Just wondering if they still sound like a single source point, rather than being spread?

Also, am I able to get the smaller white Q-AV speakers on their own...I'm thinking that if they are a hyrid piston/panel speaker (are they the same units as in the front panel?)...then they could be placed on the floor somehwhere??

This would be as opposed to the black panel of three that should underneath the screen (for which there is no room unless I get their dedicated stand).



Chris Frost
09-04-2008, 14:39
I didn't mention Sony so I guess you mean Yamaha, right?

The Yamaha's work well. They produce a pretty convincing surround sound effect particularly the bigger of the two products in the range which is what most people would choose with a 42" or 50" screen.

The Q Acoustics is a little more point source, but that's not as much of a problem as it might seem at first. Most of the sound for movies will be dialogue from the centre channel. Stereo music won't have quite the left right separation of a good budget 2 channel system, but it will have a very wide sweet spot and your wife will love you :lol:

The Q-AV rear speakers are good for effects but not good as front L&R speakers. They are available to buy on their own as a pair. If someone insisted on using them as fronts then I would strongly suggest they be mounted at ceiling level. There's less chance of the sound being blocked by furniture (or guitars) or being knocked off the wall when vacuuming.

You keep going on about needing the Q-Acoustic dedicated stand. I don't think you do. Here's why...

The Q-AV system is available in two configurations - 5.1 which includes rear speakers - and 3.1 without rear speakers. Both configurations come with a wall bracket for the front LCR set.

The optional pedestal stand is not cheap. It's 260. Now I can think of far better uses for 260, so here's what we do...

Get a reasonable wall bracket with tilt facility for your TV (40 - 50 ish). The tilt bit is important, trust me on this. Now we bury the cables for the TV and front speakers. Mount the TV bracket and the Q-AV speakers bracket just below. What we have now is a really clean looking install with nothing showing below the TV/speakers. All the cables go down to floor level so whatever you decide to do about an amp/DVD player/Sky/Games Console/PC/Bluray etc etc you won't end up staring at spaghetti junction draping down behind the TV. Domestic bliss is almost assured ;)


09-04-2008, 22:01
bugger...posted from work, and its disappeared.

Anyway...thanks for the most welcome advice Chris, really appreciate it.

Summary of post, was that behind plaster wall is 15k worth of waterproofing membrane (not quite..slightly exaggerated to include electrics/sump/pump/floor/plaster/light well and window...but you get the picture). Anyway..drilling the wall to hang telly not really an option. Also goes someway to explain lack of funds for kit right now !!

Q-AV front 3.1 seems to need 160mm...space from shelf to screen itself 150mm:steam: - hence need to raise TV if to fit their panel.

I'm thinking more and more about your advice on Monitor Audio gear...would also fit need for decent music repro rather than wham bam thankyou mam of films.
Asthetics...thats the trick here I reckon.

Chris Frost
09-04-2008, 22:25
You're welcome Steve.

behind plaster wall is 15k worth of waterproofing membrane (not quite..slightly exaggerated to include electrics/sump/pump/floor/plaster/light well and window...but you get the picture). Anyway..drilling the wall to hang telly not really an option.

Creative solutions is what I do, and there's more than one way to skin a cat. ;)


11-04-2008, 11:15
Cheers Chris
Would be interested on your recommendations on AV amps.

Chris Frost
11-04-2008, 12:02
Ha Ha...How long is a piece of string.

There are as many questions to ask as there are answers. It might be time for us to meet. I have sent a private message to you with my contact details.



11-04-2008, 15:29
We will do that Chris, I've PM'd you back.
What I was thinking was that the forum could benefit from your expertise and knowledge rather than my limitations and needs ..which can get pretty boring :beer:

Chris Frost
11-04-2008, 18:02
Perhaps we use your system and needs as a bit of a case study. It might provide others with some insight in to choosing appropriate gear. :)

I'll wait for your call.