NVA interconnects

[Ned664]

Recent experience in changing interconnects has made me realise - they do make a difference! I was thinking of trying some NVA interconnects and wondered whether anyone had any experiences of using them - good or bad?

Cheers

[walpurgis]

Not tried NVA, but If you want to hear everything that's going on try Nordost. Some people find them too revealing, but they're fine for me. Alternatively if you want a refined sound try Audio Note cables, they sound lovely, even the lower priced ones.

[Gazjam]

Had the sound cord interconnect and the super sound pipe digital cable.
Great sounding cables, well worth the money.

What I liked about them was that they were "different" sounding to most other cables, very clear direct sound.
More of an open window I guess, with a lot less coluration.

[icehockeyboy]

I have a pair of the ultra cheap Sound Cords, and they really are excellent cables.

In the past I've been right up the ladder with a pair of £600 Black Rhodium Oratorios. But these SC's cannot be faulted, especially at the price.

Others to consider, if you haven't completely made your mind up have to be Mark Grants fine wires, and Silver High Breed.

Just thought, if you were referring to the Sound Pipe, the one you have to bend to fit, id say steer clear as they are easily broken.

[Ali Tait]

Keep an eye out for these, might be worth a try?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200953578404?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

[synsei]

Had a pair of NVA Sound Pipes but they weren't happy in my system at all although others report excellent results. Best IC's I've used by a country mile are RFC Neptunes. Beautifully transparent and dynamic without any adverse nasties at all, I'd recommend them wholeheartedly ;)

http://referencefidelitycomponents.co.uk/products/reference-series/reference-neptune/

[brian2957]

The NVA Soundcords and Super Soundcords are fantastic interconnects and excellent value for money .
If you want to go further up the price scale I can recommend RFC Reference Pluto interconnects . I've had a pair for a week or so and they sound excellent. http://referencefidelitycomponents.co.uk/products/reference-series/reference-pluto/ These will be staying in my system.

[roob]

I have a set of NVA Sound Pipes and Super Sound Pipes they are both very good interconnects, I have moved over to RFC Pluto and Mercurys when I shifted stuff about the NVA's were to short.
If you are interested they will be up for sale and are around 0.6 m in length.

[Figlet108]

Nick, I have many pairs of NVA SSP.

Pros: good transparent sound. No one can say they sound bad and I've never heard anyone say they sound bad.

Cons: stiff, PITA to use and connections break easily (all bar one of my pairs are currently sitting broken). The more you plug/unplug them, the more likely they break. Richard Dunne of NVA will probably repair them from free, but will call you an idiot and make you feel bad while he does it... More seriously they have no shielding, so if you have a potentially noisy EMI/RFI environment they will introduce noise into your system. E.g. wireless, plasma tvs, dimmers etc will potentially cause hissing from your speakers. I replaced my AV interconnects from SSP to these low capacitance ones from Blue Jean Cable (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm) and in terms of sound quality I couldn't tell the difference. However, they are very well shielded and so the hissing vanished, so win-win. And from a mechanical perspective they also have one of the best plugs I've come across.

[Marco]

Richard Dunne of NVA will probably repair them from free, but will call you an idiot and make you feel bad while he does it...

Especially if you're gay! :D

Marco.

[Sovereign]

Had sound cords and super sound pipes, the SSP is a very good cable indeed, and I'm only gay after a few pints

[Gazjam]

Hey. I'LL have a Babycham...

:drinking: :bonk:

[roob]

Richard Dunne of NVA will probably repair them from free,
No he won't, I had mine re-soldered by him cost about £20 for both sets.

[Audioman]

No he won't, I had mine re-soldered by him cost about £20 for both sets.

That's almost free especially if it includes return postage. :)

[icehockeyboy]

Especially if you're gay! :D

Marco.

Or if you happen to have an opinion.......:)

[Andrew B]

I've never broken Sound Cords or Soundpipes and I chop and change quite a bit. I must be doing something right :)

Funnily enough, NVA, Rega and Van Den Hul are the only ones I haven't managed to break in my time. I do like NVA interconnects, but even I was surprised at how good SoundCord is as a digital cable. I only tried it by chance one day because I was fed up of using a stiff 1m cable for a DAC sat on top of a transport.

For anyone wanting a good interconnect and for some reason not wanting SoundCord, I'd say have a listen to Rega Couple. Mind you, it will cost you quite a bit more and I don't think it's any better. Still better to my ears than all the others I've tried though.

[DSJR]

The couple is great, or was, when used as part of a system deal. If you can use a soldering iron, you used to be able to replicate it in all but the labelling on the outer jacket for around thirty notes. Tragic that the retail price has doubled in ten years, whereas the wire and plugs used (Klotz AC110/La Grange and Neutrik Pro's) doesn't seem hugely more expensive???? One reason I suspect why Rega changed it recently, since the phono plugs now used, although seemingly excellent ones? are cheaper than the Neutriks. I have no idea about the wire they're using nowadays though.

[Effem]

Keep an eye out for these, might be worth a try?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200953578404?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

I have just bought a pair of those and very pleased with them.

Had the Sound Pipes in the past and they gave a bass heavy presentation in my system with a rolled off top end.

[Canetoad]

I'm not gay but I once slept with a guy who was. ;)

[Andrew B]

The couple is great, or was, when used as part of a system deal. If you can use a soldering iron, you used to be able to replicate it in all but the labelling on the outer jacket for around thirty notes. Tragic that the retail price has doubled in ten years, whereas the wire and plugs used (Klotz AC110/La Grange and Neutrik Pro's) doesn't seem hugely more expensive???? One reason I suspect why Rega changed it recently, since the phono plugs now used, although seemingly excellent ones? are cheaper than the Neutriks. I have no idea about the wire they're using nowadays though.

I've been trying to find out for ages. La Grange just doesn't seem to be available any more. Is AC110 exactly the same, do you know, or is it a similar replacement? No worries if you don't know for sure.

[Gordon Steadman]

Keep an eye out for these, might be worth a try?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200953578404?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

I wonder how a lead can be 98% new!:scratch:

[Andrew B]

I wonder how a lead can be 98% new!:scratch:

Easy, it's just a little older than 99% new ;)

[walpurgis]

Same thing as 2% old!

[Gordon Steadman]

Easy, it's just a little older than 99% new ;)

Ah - silly me:doh:

[Ninanina]

[QUOTE=

Cons: stiff, PITA to use and connections break easily (all bar one of my pairs are currently sitting broken). The more you plug/unplug them, the more likely they break. Richard Dunne of NVA will probably repair them from free, but will call you an idiot and make you feel bad while he does it... More seriously they have no shielding, so if you have a potentially noisy EMI/RFI environment they will introduce noise into your system. E.g. wireless, plasma tvs, dimmers etc will potentially cause hissing from your speakers. I replaced my AV interconnects from SSP to these low capacitance ones from Blue Jean Cable (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm) and in terms of sound quality I couldn't tell the difference. However, they are very well shielded and so the hissing vanished, so win-win. And from a mechanical perspective they also have one of the best plugs I've come across.[/QUOTE]

EXACTLY my thoughts, they are good but it is VERY easy to break them

If you don't break them then I'd recommend them

If you want something that definitely WON'T break then I'd really recommend the Mark Grant G2000HD cables, they are superb sounding and very flexible and Mark is a super chap to deal with

Hope that helps :)

[DSJR]

And taking the willy-waving out of the equation, just how much 'better' is the G2000HD than the 1000 version? Same wire and solder I understand and the 1000 sells for fifty notes.. Add a couple of ferrites to a pair (for systems that don't like the extreme bandwidth) and off you go :)

[moonlight knight]

hi roob

have you got a price set for the two sets of interconnects

regards,steve

[jandl100]

And taking the willy-waving out of the equation, just how much 'better' is the G2000HD than the 1000 version? Same wire and solder I understand and the 1000 sells for fifty notes.. Add a couple of ferrites to a pair (for systems that don't like the extreme bandwidth) and off you go :)

Better RCA plugs, Dave.

Sadly, it does make a difference, at least to my ears.
No, I've not heard the MG examples, but I have heard the same cable with different plugs from another manufacturer. I was a bit distressed, I was - I really didn't expect or want to hear an improvement with the more expensive RCAs, but it was easy to hear. :(

[DSJR]

Ok, admitting my stereo's aren't up to fancy plugs and the power amps in both use 1/4" jacks anyway... I thought the ferrites did help the standard HD1000 though - in my setups - but I doubt I'd hear it if blindfolded.. I promise to maintain an open mind though :) :respect:

[The Black Adder]

I've been with the mid range 1500's for quite some time now, I felt they are much nicer sounding than the 1000's - I've also had a 2000 but I felt the 1500's was the best all rounder.

A sound cord is busy being used to hang a picture in the office at the moment... Very strong :) :) - A Cambridge yellow is also being used as a temporary fix for a garage door pull. -

I liked the sound cord though, for the price it's a bargain. I've never had one break though. The Cambridge was gash, hated it and it had a short when I bought it..

[Figlet108]

It's the (Super) Sound Pipes that break - I haven't heard of sound chords breaking - different beasts.

This is what commonly happens with SSP:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-IE87XlebSSk/Uhiy6MMpzAI/AAAAAAAACDw/BW5ve1Wq7Ow/w1033-h689-no/IMG_7354_resize.JPG

[Sovereign]

And taking the willy-waving out of the equation, just how much 'better' is the G2000HD than the 1000 version? Same wire and solder I understand and the 1000 sells for fifty notes.. Add a couple of ferrites to a pair (for systems that don't like the extreme bandwidth) and off you go :)

I think you may find Bev doesn't have a willy to wave:lol:

[Sovereign]

.

[Andrew B]

I have to say that the cables I've bought over the years from NVA have been very professionally terminated. What else would you expect from someone who has spent a lifetime making amps and cables. I'm not in Blighty right now or I'd post some pics. I don't have SSP but at least I could show the workmanship. Maybe the pair pictured have been bodged at some point.

I'm a fussy soul when it comes to cables and I always check the work. I've returned cables twice to dealers because the soldering was below par. Given how many cables I've broken in my time, I figure I can't take any chances :)

[Audioman]

What lousy construction: there is too much exposed conductor; the flux has not been cleaned off - and worse of all, there seems to be no cord grip used!

The Neutrik Pro-Fi plugs are the best RCA phono types you can buy, so why have they not been fitted as per the accompanying instructions? The fitting instructions that come with these plugs are very precise and detailed - clearly the cable manufacturer has chosen to ignore them.

I wonder how much was charged for this abomination? !!

RD has commented on the damage and your uninformed and ignorant allegations.


I really don't know why I bother
1/ the insulation has been striped back as can be seen 2/ the cable grip has been removed 3/ they are called pipes because the outside is a copper tube so the conductor has to be long (it is semi rigid solid core BTW) in order to not short against the copper pipe of the other core.

This cable has been mangled and manipulated by an ignorant idiot i.e. Figlet108. He fitted those Neutriks, I supplied the cable with my standard connections if it was one I made. So it is either a mangled one of mine or shit poor attempt by him to make one.

Lets see if he admits it, perhaps we will see the mans (dis)honesty or what his agenda is.




To anyone with a neutral perspective it is obvious that this cable has been deliberately mangled or is the result of a bodged repair. Where is the cable grip? No cable will break like that in normal usage. Frankly I think you should withdraw your comments as this gives the forum a bad reputation. We are not here to unfairly damage a products reputation based on personal issues with the manufacturer. Looks like you and figlet108 have an agenda here.

[synsei]

I think you may find Bev doesn't have a willy to wave:lol:

:rfl:

[Marco]

The fitting instructions that come with these plugs are very precise and detailed - clearly the cable manufacturer has chosen to ignore them.


I guess that when you're nearer 70 than 60, blindness (and senility) starts to kick in with a vengeance! ;)

Marco.

[NRG]

I dont think the SoundPipes ship with the Neutrik connector and the one Jason shows seems to be missing the strain relief collar:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/Neutrik_1.jpg

[synsei]

Regardless of any issues I or anyone else might have with the individual concerned the recent tone of this thread is unbecoming in my opinion, and it doesn't sit comfortably with me... :(

[roob]

SSP's do not come with Pro-Fi plugs I have just checked my set.

[Gordon Steadman]

Regardless of any issues I or anyone else might have with the individual concerned the recent tone of this thread is unbecoming in my opinion, and it doesn't sit comfortably with me... :(

Indeed, anyone who takes this seriously when the disagreements between the two parties is well documented should have a little talk with themselves. Airing this on a public forum is in extremely bad taste.

[julesd68]

We are not here to unfairly damage a products reputation based on personal issues with the manufacturer.

+1. Not cool at all.

'Trial by Soundpipe'... don't think this one would hold up in court...

[Ned664]

Ok I have to agree with the previous posts concerning the inappropriate tone of earlier posts. I have in any event purchased a pair of Super Sound Cords, I will be very interested in how they perform.

[Barry]

I guess that when you're nearer 70 than 60, blindness (and senility) starts to kick in with a vengeance! ;)

Marco.

Meaning?

[Figlet108]

SSP's do not come with Pro-Fi plugs I have just checked my set.
Andrew, they do if you order them with the Pro-Fi option (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NVA-SSP-SP-Option-of-Neutrik-Profi-plug-stereo-set-/220702579975?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Ca bles_Adapters&hash=item3362e61d07):

There's no need for this thread to get hostile. Many of us have said, including me, that the cables sound good, otherwise I wouldn't have bought 3 1/2 pairs.
But you can rarely have *everything* with a product or manufacturer: good sound, good construction, good prices. With NVA you get good sound and good prices, but as a long-time NVA user my opinion is that the construction is poor, attention to detail is poor and fit and finish is poor. I don't think that's controversial or unfair, I think it generally reflects that manufacturer's products, and since I own a fair amount of NVA gear I think I have a right to state my views without other people trying to turn it into something personal which it quite clearly isn't.
If you look at the sum total of what I have actually said in this thread I think it's fairly well balanced and not at all personal.

And by the way, just to be clear, the cable I photographed does have the plastic strain relief - I removed it for the photo. And obviously I had pulled back the cable insulation, to reveal the break which you can see is right at the copper tube and covered by the insulation, to prepare it for resoldering.

Nick, I have no doubt you will be very happy with your Super Sound Chords.

[Gordon Steadman]

I guess that when you're nearer 70 than 60, blindness (and senility) starts to kick in with a vengeance! ;)

Marco.

Whilst I'm sure we all know who you are referring to Marco, those of us that are the same age as RD might feel tempted to be insulted.

Fortunately, I am not one of them but understand that you young things have a way to go before getting a better perspective on life, the universe and everything:ner:

[walpurgis]

Actually, it's just dawned on me that since a few weeks ago, I'm now nearer seventy than sixty. Nothing to do with posts and thread though, so carry on chaps.

[guy]

Would it not be sensible and more meaningful to remove your earlier comments from the thread?

While I think it is the correct thing to do to apologise for your earlier uninformed post, you must realise that someone could "google" soundpipes and only read as far as your earlier post thereby gaining a totally false understanding of the product.

Guy.

[Barry]

Would it not be sensible and more meaningful to remove your earlier comments from the thread?

While I think it is the correct thing to do to apologise for your earlier uninformed post, you must realise that someone could "google" soundpipes and only read as far as your earlier post thereby gaining a totally false understanding of the product.

Guy.

Happy now?

[Figlet108]

Well I'm not happy.

As I've clearly pointed out, my 3 posts in this thread have been to the point, balanced, and fair and without any personal comment.
Therefore I would ask that Audioman withdraws post 35 which both insults me personally and makes false accusations against me.
I would also say to Gordon that his post 41 is completely inappropriate and should be removed. Nothing is being aired publicly in this thread and there is no personal comment from me whatever. I have given a balanced view of a product I own and stated that I think it sounds good but breaks easily. I'm certainly not the only one out there with broken SSPs - there's plenty of others.

Thank you.

[Gordon Steadman]

Well I'm not happy.

As I've clearly pointed out, my 3 posts in this thread have been to the point, balanced, and fair and without any personal comment.
Therefore I would ask that Audioman withdraws post 35 which both insults me personally and and makes false accusations against me.
I would also say to Gordon that his post 41 is completely inappropriate and should be removed. Nothing is being aired publicly in this thread and there is no personal comment from me whatever. I have given a balanced view of a product I own and stated that I think it sounds good but breaks easily. I'm certainly not the only one out there with broken SSPs - there's plenty of others.

Thank you.

We observers of human nature tend to be a bit cynical I'm afraid. The possibility that a post criticising a product produced by someone with whom you had a business relationship that ended in an acrimonious split, was likely to be balanced, sort of stretches the imagination.

[synsei]

I think the time has come to stop this nonsense as it is only going to end up with regrets on both sides. Life is too short to argue over a length of copper... :confused:

[Gordon Steadman]

I think the time has come to stop this nonsense as it is only going to end up with regrets on both sides. Life is too short to argue over a length of copper... :confused:

Normally I would agree. I don't like conflict.

However I like bad faith even less and my hackles were raised by this and certain other connected incidents. But I will add nothing further to this thread.

[icehockeyboy]

Just my observation...........

One member posted that as he owned some NVA kit he was entitled to his own opinion, when I posted my genuine thoughts on one particular product from the range, and how I believed it sounded better than a more expensive one, I had a round of four letter words thrown at me......shan't say from whom.....

I also note that threads contains a certain three letters of the alphabet seem to end the way this one is going.....

[Marco]

Well I'm not happy.

As I've clearly pointed out, my 3 posts in this thread have been to the point, balanced, and fair and without any personal comment.
Therefore I would ask that Audioman withdraws post 35 which both insults me personally and and makes false accusations against me.
I would also say to Gordon that his post 41 is completely inappropriate and should be removed. Nothing is being aired publicly in this thread and there is no personal comment from me whatever. I have given a balanced view of a product I own and stated that I think it sounds good but breaks easily. I'm certainly not the only one out there with broken SSPs - there's plenty of others.

Thank you.

Hi Jason,

Before I go any further, in terms of moderating this thread, could you please confirm (or deny) that it was you who fitted the Neutrik plugs to the NVA interconnects, shown in the picture you posted earlier?

Once I know the answer to that, I'll comment further.

However, as a point for general consumption, I'd like to state that Barry has no issues whatsoever with Richard Dunn or NVA. He has absolutely no interest in any inter-forum contretemps. The (now deleted) comments he made were strictly about the construction of the cables (as he observed them), shown in the picture Jason posted, which now seem to be a misrepresentation of the NVA interconnects in question.

Marco.

[Marco]

Just my observation...........

One member posted that as he owned some NVA kit he was entitled to his own opinion, when I posted my genuine thoughts on one particular product from the range, and how I believed it sounded better than a more expensive one, I had a round of four letter words thrown at me......shan't say from whom.....

Hi Craig,

Did this occur on the open forum, and if so, where?

Marco.

[icehockeyboy]

Hi Craig,

Did this occur on the open forum, and if so, where?

Marco.

No.

We have discussed this before, and I didn't mention where it happened as it was pointed out to me that it was wrong to mention where, so I didn't.

I felt the need to mention it however as it was mentioned earlier that by owning kit from a manufacturer should give one the right to pass an opinion on it.

It seems in this case that is not true.

I hope that I have not contravened any rules? After all I didn't mention where it happened, only that it did.

[Marco]

Sorry, Craig. I have no idea what you mean. Unless you can express yourself more clearly and explain what your issue is, then I'm unable to see what relevance your comments have to this thread :scratch:

Marco.

[BTH K10A]

Would it not be sensible and more meaningful to remove your earlier comments from the thread?

While I think it is the correct thing to do to apologise for your earlier uninformed post, you must realise that someone could "google" soundpipes and only read as far as your earlier post thereby gaining a totally false understanding of the product.

Guy.

I don't usually comment on this sort of thing but in the interest of fairness it should be noted that there have been a number of "uninformed" posts on this thread. Whilst I also agree that it is best that they are deleted, why is it that you have only taken offence at Barry's comments? The Post by Audioman is specifically accusing an individual of deliberately misrepresenting the facts without a shred of evidence, included the rantings of an individual from another forum and certainly needs to be removed and an apology offered.

[icehockeyboy]

Sorry, Craig. I have no idea what you mean. Unless you can express yourself more clearly and explain what your issue is, then I'm unable to see what relevance your comments have to this thread :scratch:

Marco.

Quite simple really Marco, in one post in this thread Figlet108 who owns equipment / wires made by NVA, states that as he owns them, he is entitled to his opinion on them.

I point out that isn't the case, as I had previously also pointed out, not in this forum by the way, that my genuine thoughts were that I believed the cheaper Sound Cords were better than the more expensive Sound Pipes.

It was at that stage that I was PM'd' by you know who with a barrage of four letter words on how dare I make such a statement and what did I know about these things.

Clear now?

[Marco]

Yup, ok - no worries :)

Andy, you make a very good point, and this is something I'll be dealing with as soon as Jason answers the question I asked him.

Marco.

[AlanS]

I have both Sound Cords and SSP's. Both seem thankfully free of colouration. In the spirit of equality I also own an equal number of Mark Grant cables, lowest in range and HD1000 they too a very open.

SSP have a very inflexible cable that takes some getting used to to handle. I unfortunately got the minimum length to connect between two boxes without realising how inflexible they were. I can see why some may have strained the cable plug interface when tightly located but with patience and care they are fine.

The anti NVA RD spirit afoot in AoS is regrettable

[Marco]

The anti NVA RD spirit afoot in AoS is regrettable

And of course there is no anti-AoS spirit afoot on HFS?? Get real, Alan! Unfortunately, as the old saying goes: 'you reap what you sow'...

However, that aside, I would not allow a product from any manufacturer (NVA or otherwise) to be deliberately misrepresented (if indeed that's what has happened here). If that is the case, the situation will be rectified.

Marco.

[icehockeyboy]

The anti NVA RD spirit afoot in AoS is regrettable

Possibly caused by the actions (certainly in my case) of a certain individual ?

As I state in an earlier post I believe the Sound Cords are excellent, well priced cables, so at least I'm not anti NVA.

[The Grand Wazoo]

And of course there is no anti-AoS spirit afoot on HFS?? Get real, Alan!

Indeed, and it should be noted that when Barry realised his error and made a sincere apology, like the true gentleman that he is, it was treated with derision and venom by the hyaenas there.

[icehockeyboy]

I've Googled HFS but can't see a forum, could someone post a link or put its full name up please, I'm inquisitive to take a peep! :)

[Figlet108]

Hi Marco,

no, the history of that cable is this: I was being mocked by a friend at work for being an audiophool to believe that cables make a difference, so I challenged him to buy a top interconnect (obviously I recommended SSP as I know that cable well) to see if he could tell the difference in his system. I told him I'd take it off his hands if he really couldn't hear anything (and he had a suitable forfeit if he could hear the difference). He couldn't hear any difference.

Anyway, that's how I ended up with the cable. I have never bought SSP from Richard with the Pro-fi option as my cable was bought ages ago before he had that option. And having personal experience with them breaking I told my friend to buy the Pro-fi version.

The matching cable is not broken, and out of interest here's some photos of a much better construction job. In particular look how the strain relief in the last photo is tight around the cable and doing its job. That I suspect this is the crux of whether these things will break or not.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iS2cWpUixYQ/UhnSKps42QI/AAAAAAAACEU/lmo5B7ooUPw/w1347-h898-no/IMG_7356_resize.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vK3Obsstr-8/UhnSLFN6-II/AAAAAAAACEY/QgIOYvuAqIs/w1347-h898-no/IMG_7357_resize.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CP26GI6NGn8/UhnSKzER9rI/AAAAAAAACEc/6BFHVz7s7tM/w1347-h898-no/IMG_7358_resize.JPG

[Marco]

Indeed, and it should be noted that when Barry realised his error and made a sincere apology, like the true gentleman that he is, it was treated with derision and venom by the hyaenas there.

Quite so. I think that some people need to take their blinkers off and 'smell the coffee'! Barry's magnanimous gesture should've instead been recognised and appreciated. However, it shows the character of the people you're dealing with.

Marco.

P.S Jason, thanks for the added info. Most interesting... I'll get to it later. Just need to pop out for a bit :)

[Figlet108]

The anti NVA RD spirit afoot in AoS is regrettable
TBH Alan, since I got up this morning I'm feeling more of an anti-Figlet spirit afoot here.

I have made no personal remarks against anyone or strayed off topic for any reason even when being attacked. All the nastiness and negative tone has come from others both on this forum and from another forum...

[Marco]

The question that should be asked is why is it ALWAYS the other person's fault when RD falls out with someone, and NEVER his?? It's always the other person who is the bad guy! :mental:

The fact is, all the folk he's fallen out with over the years can't ALWAYS have been in the wrong............!!

Quite simply, RD has a unique propensity to fall out with people (mostly in a rather spectacular way), and the list of those he's fallen out with is a very long one indeed, therefore regardless of any faults his 'enemies' may or may not have, the statistics ably prove that that is not the main problem: it is HIM (and his disgraceful attitude towards people he takes an [often irrational] dislike to). I've never known anyone like him who continually thrives on conflict... :doh:

I live in hope that one day before RD pops his clogs, he'll take a long hard look in the mirror and have the gumption to acknowledge and embrace the reality of why he's made so many enemies, ready to stick the boot into him for his past 'transgressions', whenever a suitable opportunity presents itself, and made so few real friends, throughout his miserable life.

Anyway, must dash... Laters!

Marco.

[Figlet108]

Marco, obviously I agree with what you say.

However, let's be clear that in this thread I didn't see anyone sticking the boot into RD or NVA.
If I had responded to a different post about say Monster cable which I might own, and said similar things that maybe they sound good but were ugly and badly made etc, folks considering a purchase would be grateful for someone's real experience of something they were interested in. All I have actually said in this thread is that they sound great but can break as construction quality is not an NVA strong-point in my opinion. And I have provided proof, both that I like the sound since I have bought a number of pairs and that construction can be poor by providing photos. Nothing personal, no attacks, just pros and cons like every product has.

But in this case what has happened is this. RD has a website where he promotes and instills hatred against other people he doesn't like, other companies he doesn't like, other industries he doesn't like etc etc and none of those injured parties have any right of reply or way of defending themselves - it's a hate fest over there and anyone can see it.

Look at the hatred generated against MCRU or anyone in sales and distribution and the potential damage to their livelihoods. Look at the hatred generated against you, Synsei, Sov, the moderators here, the folks at AudioChews, various folks at PFM and wigwam, audiosmile the list goes on and on and on.
What concerns me is that in the early days it was just RD on his own, almost ranting to himself in the Elsewhere thread, but now that hatred has attracted and spread to others: DQ, Jammy, Terry, etc etc.

In my case I've been publicly called a cunt by Shane Lonergan and a twat by Zebbo - two people that I have never met, never spoken to and who know nothing whatever of what has happened between me and RD. All they have heard is the lies, libel and hate that RD practices on his site.
And now we have new people getting sucked into RD's hate brigade as you can see from this thread - they were as likely as not insighted to come here and stir things up by RD's hate brainwashing, which as we can see succeeded.

[Gordon Steadman]

Hmmm,

Well I wasn't going to join in again but this requires an answer.

My input on this thread has nothing at all to do with Richard Dunn. I joined his forum to voice my disgust at the actions of a certain party who has used this thread for his own ends, having delighted in bragging about it on PFM and been supported in his actions by other members there. I see this thread as just a continuation of that mind set.

Whatever you think of Richard Dunn, it has no bearing on this forum. If you feel he deserves everything he gets, and I am agnostic on this, apart from him calling me an idiot once, I don't know him, then why on earth would you want to go down to his level (if thats what it is) and use another forum to hit back at him.

This is all about using AOS for ones own purpose to justify ones own actions. Using examples of other people who have 'suffered' at RD's hands is just clouding the issue and throwing a smokescreenin order to appear the injured party. Thats shouldn't be what this forum is for.

Thats the only reason I got involved in this thread.

I'm sorry Marco, but I think your comments were uneccessary too. Surely you can rise above the level you are so critical of?

[Marco]

I'm sorry Marco, but I think your comments were uneccessary too. Surely you can rise above the level you are so critical of?

99% of the time, Gordon, I do. However, sometimes certain things need saying. Anyway, you're right, the discussion has veered widly off-topic, so let's bring it back on track. I'm a little busy at the moment, and so will address Jason's earlier post (where he posted further pictures of the cable in question) when I'm free.

However, in the meantime, could you clarify what you mean by this (as I'm unsure of exactly what you're referring to):


"I joined his forum to voice my disgust at the actions of a certain party who has used this thread for his own ends, having delighted in bragging about it on PFM and been supported in his actions by other members there."


Cheers! :)

Marco.

[Figlet108]

Gordon, I'm confused, I don't post on PFM, or did you mean something else?

Also, if you want to interpret my 3 original posts on here about the cable as posting with a hidden agenda to get back at RD that's fine, you are entitled to your view. Others hopefully will see it for what it was: a pros and cons view based on experience.

As for getting back at RD, there is nothing I can say to damage RD and NVA more than he does himself with many of his posts on HFS and how he sometimes treats customers. I have no interest at getting back at RD as it's a childish waste of life and utterly pointless . However, I do have an interest in clearing my name of the lies and libel that has been spread by him that insights people that don't know me or what has actually happened to hate me and publicly insult me.

What do you think Gordon? Do I have a right to clear my name and answer to accusations? Does RD have a right to post publicly whatever he wants regardless of truth and validity without right of reply? How would you feel?

After RD himself dragged our break up into the public domain I have said that I have nothing to hide and will gladly answer to any accusations and take responsibility for my actions and words. Twice I have tried to do that on HFS, which I believe is the appropriate place so as not to torture any other innocent forums. Both times I have had my defense and myself removed, despite sticking to RD's own rules on posting, and history is re-written according to Dunne.
Please find anything of my defense anywhere on the internet and show it to me. It doesn't exist. It's been deleted.

Believe it or not Gordon, reading lies and hate about myself on a public forum is very upsetting to me. Maybe others are more robust, but we have all had different childhood experiences that have shaped our adulthood, and in my case I don't have a thick skin

[Gordon Steadman]

Gordon, I'm confused, I don't post on PFM, or did you mean something else?

Also, if you want to interpret my 3 original posts on here about the cable as posting with a hidden agenda to get back at RD that's fine, you are entitled to your view. Others hopefully will see it for what it was: a pros and cons view based on experience.

As for getting back at RD, there is nothing I can say to damage RD and NVA more than he does himself with many of his posts on HFS and how he sometimes treats customers. I have no interest at getting back at RD as it's a childish waste of life and utterly pointless . However, I do have an interest in clearing my name of the lies and libel that has been spread by him that insights people that don't know me or what has actually happened to hate me and publicly insult me.

What do you think Gordon? Do I have a right to clear my name and answer to accusations? Does RD have a right to post publicly whatever he wants regardless of truth and validity without right of reply? How would you feel?

After RD himself dragged our break up into the public domain I have said that I have nothing to hide and will gladly answer to any accusations and take responsibility for my actions and words. Twice I have tried to do that on HFS, which I believe is the appropriate place so as not to torture any other innocent forums. Both times I have had my defense and myself removed, despite sticking to RD's own rules on posting, and history is re-written according to Dunne.
Please find anything of my defense anywhere on the internet and show it to me. It doesn't exist. It's been deleted.

Believe it or not Gordon, reading lies and hate about myself on a public forum is very upsetting to me. Maybe others are more robust, but we have all had different childhood experiences that have shaped our adulthood, and in my case I don't have a thick skin

I'm sorry, it could have been the Wigwam, my memory for that may be faulty but not for the event. You say any evidence has been deleted?? Then it would be difficult to prove wouldn't it?

My interest here right or wrong, was to point out that there was a conflict of interest. Anything you say about NVA products has to be filtered through the knowledge that you were once involved
with the company and have fallen out with Richard Dunn. Whether you like it or not, admit it or not there is bound to be some suspicion that you have ulterior motives. You would do better to do what I would have suggested and walked away totally, in no way trying to get back at Richard Dunn for whatever reason and certainly not raising the possibility of accusations like those you have here by criticising his products in such a way. People who are unaware of your problems with NVA would not be able to make a rational decision and would in fact, be in danger of being misled.

Your thin skin I can do nothing about I'm afraid, we all take responsibilities for our own actions and if we find ourselves under pressure, its tough but something we just have to cope with.

[walpurgis]

Oooh, it's like being back at school. Chill out guys, put your feet up and open a beer and let it all become water under the bridge. Life's too short and none of this is worth getting steamed up about.
http://www.cool-smileys.com/images/224.gif (http://cool-smileys.com//cool-buddy-smiley)

[Sovereign]

I'm sorry, it could have been the Wigwam, my memory for that may be faulty but not for the event. You say any evidence has been deleted?? Then it would be difficult to prove wouldn't it?


This is now way off thread, but yes Gordon you are right it would be very hard to prove, that is EXACTLY why Richard Dunn deletes history and writes his own. I have seen the problems between Jason and Richard Dunn unfold along with many many many others, . I have also seen how Richard Dunn will delete anything that does not fit with his own view of himself and he will continue to manipulate arguments to fit his own agenda time and time again. He is the final authority of his own forum and the moderators can do very little, if anything, without his say so.

I have seen the above manipulation of historic facts time and time again it would frustrate me no end. It frustrated me even more when lies and accusations were written about me and my name and intentions were smeared so much that the other few loyalists just believed the lies. It was at the time that I was told to Piss Off, I decided to close the door on Richard Dunn, however not on NVA as I find the amplifiers to be some of the best.

[Canetoad]

Sorry Gordon, but I don't see what business any of this is to you. Who made you the morality police in this matter? :scratch:

[synsei]

This is exactly what I feared would happen. Am I the only one who can see the pain and anguish that is being instilled here and we all know where it originates from. Some people have talked in the past about the need to develop a thick skin when dealing with Mr Dunn. Why? Take a moment to think about that. What if someone were to treat you in the manner which is de rigeur on HFS when out in public? How would you deal with it? How did you deal with it? I'm sure it must have happened once or twice. There is no excuse for rudeness and this has gone way beyond that.

The irony of Mr Dunn's rants about the industry are not lost on me. I've noticed that he saves his most potent ire for those, mainly British concerns, which are more successful than his and anybody who supports those concerns, be they customers or agents. He justifies his actions by spouting off about how Naim & Linn were instrumental in 'destroying' the industry late last century and he also blames them for the loss of his previous business, and yet here we are in 2013 and many of us have fine British products sat in our racks sourced from independent home grown businesses which aren't called Naim or Linn, although these two outfits play their part too. For me this demonstrates his real weakness. Any business owner worth his or her salt would adapt to survive. This may involve restructuring the business, re-positioning it in the marketplace and/or changing its marketing policy. However Mr Dunn cannot do this as he has painted himself into a corner with his constant demonisation of manufacturers, dealers and their methods, and yet the only thing these concerns are guilty of is good business practice. They adapted therefore they survived... Put simply, his pride won't let him adapt in the manner he should. To act on any of the points I made he would need to become the enemy and that will never happen. Eventually natural selection will take its course and NVA will go out of business because he will simply run out of people who want to deal with him.

[Gordon Steadman]

Sorry Gordon, but I don't see what business any of this is to you. Who made you the morality police in this matter? :scratch:

If you can't see that openess and honesty are to be strived for then good luck. One is expected to declare an interest if pushing a product if you are connected with it and I would expect the same if the reverse is true.

[Sovereign]

The real sad point is he could have been very successful if only he knew how to deal with people. I would consider myself a very loyal NVA supporter and still am, but the way I was treated was just too much, but more than that the way I saw others treated just pissed me off and I couldn't be part of it any longer.

[synsei]

The real sad point is he could have been very successful if only he knew how to deal with people. I would consider myself a very loyal NVA supporter and still am, but the way I was treated was just too much, but more than that the way I saw others treated just pissed me off and I couldn't be part of it any longer.

I agree with that 100%

[Figlet108]

If you can't see that openess and honesty are to be strived for then good luck. One is expected to declare an interest if pushing a product if you are connected with it and I would expect the same if the reverse is true.

Gordon, can you not see I am chomping at the bit to be open and honest about what has happened? I am objecting because of the lack of openness and honesty offered to me. I would HAPPILY state the truth from my perspective and subject myself to anyone's questioning so as to clear my name. Clearly I can't do that on HFS as has been proved twice, but I would welcome the chance to do it here.

I can't be more open and honest than that can I? It's not that I'm guiltless of all mistakes in this and I've never pretended to be, so I'm not going to come out whiter than white, but let's at least expose the truth... and then if people want to hate me they can at least do it for legitimate reasons.

[Gordon Steadman]

Gordon, can you not see I am chomping at the bit to be open and honest about what has happened? I am objecting because of the lack of openness and honesty offered to me. I would HAPPILY state the truth from my perspective and subject myself to anyone's questioning so as to clear my name. Clearly I can't do that on HFS as has been proved twice, but I would welcome the chance to do it here.

I can't be more open and honest than that can I? It's not that I'm guiltless of all mistakes in this and I've never pretended to be, so I'm not going to come out whiter than white, but let's at least expose the truth... and then if people want to hate me they can at least do it for legitimate reasons.

That is entirely up to Marco, if he thinks he needs your side of the story then fine. At the end of the day, in the final analysis, when all is said and done.............in the end.....whatever, you know my reasons for entering the fray, whatever happens now is not up to me is it?

[guy]

I don't usually comment on this sort of thing but in the interest of fairness it should be noted that there have been a number of "uninformed" posts on this thread. Whilst I also agree that it is best that they are deleted, why is it that you have only taken offence at Barry's comments? .

I offered advice, which Barry seemed to feel was sensible and so he acted on it.
I am not sure why you assume that I took offence at Barry's comments, after all, you agree that it is best that they were deleted.

Like Marco, I would like to know what had been done with the cable in the photograph, and even was it manufactured by NVA?
Like a number of others on his forum, I feel that here is more to the accusations than meets the eye. If I am incorrect then of course I will apologise.

All the best. Guy


edit - I replied to BTH's comment before seeing the updates to the thread.

[BTH K10A]

I offered advice, which Barry seemed to feel was sensible and so he acted on it.
I am not sure why you assume that I took offence at Barry's comments, after all, you agree that it is best that they were deleted.

Like Marco, I would like to know what had been done with the cable in the photograph, and even was it manufactured by NVA?
Like a number of others on his forum, I feel that here is more to the accusations than meets the eye. If I am incorrect then of course I will apologise.

All the best. Guy


edit - I replied to BTH's comment before seeing the updates to the thread.


Why have you only selectively quoted me and not answered my question regarding Audioman's post?

Whilst I understand there is a history of events that has to be taken into account is still does not diminish the fact that the post by Audioman was unacceptable. I merely wondered why, that same "advice" you gave to Barry was not proffered to Audioman and why I assmed you took offence at Barry's post as notwithstanding he had already offered an apology.

Originally Posted by BTH K10A
I don't usually comment on this sort of thing but in the interest of fairness it should be noted that there have been a number of "uninformed" posts on this thread. Whilst I also agree that it is best that they are deleted, why is it that you have only taken offence at Barry's comments? .

For clarity, the full quote should be as follows:

"I don't usually comment on this sort of thing but in the interest of fairness it should be noted that there have been a number of "uninformed" posts on this thread. Whilst I also agree that it is best that they are deleted, why is it that you have only taken offence at Barry's comments? The Post by Audioman is specifically accusing an individual of deliberately misrepresenting the facts without a shred of evidence, included the rantings of an individual from another forum and certainly needs to be removed and an apology offered."
edit - I replied to BTH's comment before seeing the updates to the thread.[/QUOTE

[WOStantonCS100]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-IE87XlebSSk/Uhiy6MMpzAI/AAAAAAAACDw/BW5ve1Wq7Ow/w1033-h689-no/IMG_7354_resize.JPG




https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iS2cWpUixYQ/UhnSKps42QI/AAAAAAAACEU/lmo5B7ooUPw/w1347-h898-no/IMG_7356_resize.JPG

Side-stepping all the drama...

(I believe, someone already pointed out in this thread) ...and as someone who does most of his own servicing and has built his own phono pres, preamps, guitar amps and makes his own cables... I have to say... these two pictures represent how I would NEVER do things. It most certainly IS possible, perhaps a PITA, to leave a whole lot less lead exposed (especially hot/signal lead). That much seems abundantly clear from the photos and doesn't at all look "rigged" to me; just a fast job without nit-picking one's work. I would not accept this kind of work from myself and surely would be ticked off if I paid a high price for cables dressed this way. I was dressing cables better than these two pictures represent when I was a teen in high school... ...with a pencil iron and a razor blade, no less.

Again, this has nothing to do with how I do or don't feel about RD/NVA; but, everything to do with minimizing (if even remotely) the possibility of electrical fault. Why chance it ? Yes, IMO (and those of my mentors), that could have and should have been dressed better. Having said that, I don't really prefer these connectors; but, that has no bearing on how they should be assembled.

Just my tuppence...

[Audioman]

Why have you only selectively quoted me and not answered my question regarding Audioman's post?

Whilst I understand there is a history of events that has to be taken into account is still does not diminish the fact that the post by Audioman was unacceptable. I merely wondered why, that same "advice" you gave to Barry was not proffered to Audioman and why I assmed you took offence at Barry's post as notwithstanding he had already offered an apology.

Originally Posted by BTH K10A
I don't usually comment on this sort of thing but in the interest of fairness it should be noted that there have been a number of "uninformed" posts on this thread. Whilst I also agree that it is best that they are deleted, why is it that you have only taken offence at Barry's comments? .

For clarity, the full quote should be as follows:

"I don't usually comment on this sort of thing but in the interest of fairness it should be noted that there have been a number of "uninformed" posts on this thread. Whilst I also agree that it is best that they are deleted, why is it that you have only taken offence at Barry's comments? The Post by Audioman is specifically accusing an individual of deliberately misrepresenting the facts without a shred of evidence, included the rantings of an individual from another forum and certainly needs to be removed and an apology offered."
edit - I replied to BTH's comment before seeing the updates to the thread.[/QUOTE

The facts were misrepresented. I will concede it may not be deliberate but Jason later admits he further stripped back the cable to repair it so making the damage appear worse. Also failed to admit these had been purchased by his friend so he was likely unaware of any mishandling done between them coming from Richard Dunn and his acquiring them. Also he has a history with Richard Dunn which involved evidence being found according to RD of his interfering with HFS web site. Whether the accusations are true or not given the history between Jason and RD it can't be ruled out that the way he presented that photograph may have been somewhat influenced by their relationship. So there is no way I will withdraw any comment except to apologise to Barry who innocently took everything at face value before making his unwise criticisms.

Paul.

[Werdna]

Is this the same Richard?

Mr Richard Dunn (born 66 years ago)
Director, Company Director
09 Mar 1991 — Close Closed • Open0• Retired0 • Closed2

Ms Susan Hood
Company Secretary
09 Mar 1991 — Close Closed • Open0• Retired0 • Closed1

Mr Thomas Andrew Hood (born 61 years ago)
Director, Sales Executive
09 Mar 1991 — 20 Mar 1992 (1 year, 11 days) Retired • Open0• Retired1 • Closed0
NENE VALLEY AUDIO LIMITED

Mr Richard Dunn (born 66 years ago)
Director, Director
25 May 2010 — Close Closed • Open0
• Retired0
• Closed2
Ms Nadejda Dunn
Company Secretary
25 May 2010 — Close Closed • Open0 • Retired0 • Closed1
07 Jan 2011
Second Notification Of Strike-off Action In London Gazette (section 652) PDF
£0.80 Buy Now
24 Sep 2010
First Notification Of Strike-off Action In London Gazette (section 652) PDF
£0.80 Buy Now
21 Sep 2010
Application For Striking Off PDF
£0.80 Buy Now
26 May 2010
New Incorporation Documents PDF
£0.80 Buy Now

All this information is in the public domain and more, so I hope the facts are correct, and not like some guess work.

[Audioman]

This is exactly what I feared would happen. Am I the only one who can see the pain and anguish that is being instilled here and we all know where it originates from. Some people have talked in the past about the need to develop a thick skin when dealing with Mr Dunn. Why? Take a moment to think about that. What if someone were to treat you in the manner which is de rigeur on HFS when out in public? How would you deal with it? How did you deal with it? I'm sure it must have happened once or twice. There is no excuse for rudeness and this has gone way beyond that.

The irony of Mr Dunn's rants about the industry are not lost on me. I've noticed that he saves his most potent ire for those, mainly British concerns, which are more successful than his and anybody who supports those concerns, be they customers or agents. He justifies his actions by spouting off about how Naim & Linn were instrumental in 'destroying' the industry late last century and he also blames them for the loss of his previous business, and yet here we are in 2013 and many of us have fine British products sat in our racks sourced from independent home grown businesses which aren't called Naim or Linn, although these two outfits play their part too. For me this demonstrates his real weakness. Any business owner worth his or her salt would adapt to survive. This may involve restructuring the business, re-positioning it in the marketplace and/or changing its marketing policy. However Mr Dunn cannot do this as he has painted himself into a corner with his constant demonisation of manufacturers, dealers and their methods, and yet the only thing these concerns are guilty of is good business practice. They adapted therefore they survived... Put simply, his pride won't let him adapt in the manner he should. To act on any of the points I made he would need to become the enemy and that will never happen. Eventually natural selection will take its course and NVA will go out of business because he will simply run out of people who want to deal with him.

Some good points Dave. Richard should learn how to deal with people better and be polite to awkward customers even if they are unreasonable. That is what any other retailer has to do to be successful. However as far as the internet is concerned there are a number of people who deliberately go out of their way to provoke him or smear his products. As far as his rantings about the hi-fi industry (Linn and Naim) much is very true from everything I've heard down the years. There are a good number of UK brands that failed due to the pressure on dealers to push those products. I would suggest we still have a number of other UK manufacturers in spite of the 'Flat Earth' obsession. Fortunately over the last 20 years the situation has changed. However many notable brands have survived through exports and virtually giving up on the UK market through the bad years.

[chelsea]

Is this the same Richard?

Mr Richard Dunn (born 66 years ago)
Director, Company Director
09 Mar 1991 — Close Closed • Open0• Retired0 • Closed2

Ms Susan Hood
Company Secretary
09 Mar 1991 — Close Closed • Open0• Retired0 • Closed1

Mr Thomas Andrew Hood (born 61 years ago)
Director, Sales Executive
09 Mar 1991 — 20 Mar 1992 (1 year, 11 days) Retired • Open0• Retired1 • Closed0
NENE VALLEY AUDIO LIMITED

Mr Richard Dunn (born 66 years ago)
Director, Director
25 May 2010 — Close Closed • Open0
• Retired0
• Closed2
Ms Nadejda Dunn
Company Secretary
25 May 2010 — Close Closed • Open0 • Retired0 • Closed1
07 Jan 2011
Second Notification Of Strike-off Action In London Gazette (section 652) PDF
£0.80 Buy Now
24 Sep 2010
First Notification Of Strike-off Action In London Gazette (section 652) PDF
£0.80 Buy Now
21 Sep 2010
Application For Striking Off PDF
£0.80 Buy Now
26 May 2010
New Incorporation Documents PDF
£0.80 Buy Now

All this information is in the public domain and more, so I hope the facts are correct, and not like some guess work.


Don't have a clue what any of it means.

[AlanS]

Thats brave of you to say that. Don't you get wee hints and clues to build some insight?

[Marco]

Don't have a clue what any of it means.

Me neither... It's potentially interesting, though! Perhaps James would simply 'spit out' in plain English what he's attempting to put across? :)

I will decline commenting further on recent posts, and on the crux of this thread, until everyone has had their (fair) say on the matters currently under discussion.

However, in future, it's likely that we'll be applying a ban on any discussions of NVA or RD (out with of purely hi-fi-related matters and sales threads), as all it does is causes disruption and drags AoS down to the gutter level of RD and his cronies/sycophants.

Marco.

[guy]

Why have you only selectively quoted me .....?



I quoted the part that I was responding to - I think that that is normal when clarity is being sought.



ooh look, done it again.

All the best. Guy

[Werdna]

Hi Marco,

I was hoping it is the guy that made NVA Amps and to get maybe the duff two I have fixed, they belonged to my son Andrew, he passed away a few years ago now, and he loved them.
I would loved to hear them working again.

Jim (not James please)

[Marco]

Hi Jim (sorry, you put James on your profile, hence why I addressed you as such),

No worries, I see. Have you been unable to get in touch with Richard to have the faulty amps repaired?

Marco.

[synsei]

Originally Posted by BTH K10A: Why have you only selectively quoted me .....?

I think it's called 'selective quotation', or to put it more succinctly, 'twisting the facts to support an agenda '

[DSJR]

Hi Marco,

I was hoping it is the guy that made NVA Amps and to get maybe the duff two I have fixed, they belonged to my son Andrew, he passed away a few years ago now, and he loved them.
I would loved to hear them working again.

Jim (not James please)

All the above posts aside, I'm sure NVA would be delighted to get these cables working for you again and, like other cables that used a fairly similar type of cable (Chord Co. Solid, which came in a very inflexible style to start with and a thinner and slightly easier type later on), I strognly recommend great care and a sensible attitude when using them once repaired to allow them a very long life. Just remember they are NOT stranded :)

[chelsea]

All the above posts aside, I'm sure NVA would be delighted to get these cables working for you again and, like other cables that used a fairly similar type of cable (Chord Co. Solid, which came in a very inflexible style to start with and a thinner and slightly easier type later on), I strognly recommend great care and a sensible attitude when using them once repaired to allow them a very long life. Just remember they are NOT stranded :)

They are amps.

[Gordon Steadman]

Hi Marco,

I was hoping it is the guy that made NVA Amps and to get maybe the duff two I have fixed, they belonged to my son Andrew, he passed away a few years ago now, and he loved them.
I would loved to hear them working again.

Jim (not James please)

Hi Jim

Just look him up on eBay which is where he now trades. Go to the hi-fi section and search for NVA. I'm sure you can contact him through there.

[Andrew B]

If I was Nick, the OP, I'd be a bit disappointed in the number of posts here that stray incrseasingly from his question. Given that he's now ordered a set of SSP this thread seems even less relevant.

Hopefully staying on topic, I've just taken a look through well over three thousand feedbacks for NVA, the majority of which are for cables. Not a single one has left a negative for product quality or breakage. Nobody has posted a follow up to report subsequent breakage or issues, which all buyers can do. These are real customers who are simply looking to buy a product that will improve their listening. They are probably totally disinterested in personalities and forum politics. It's their opinions I'd value. There are an awful lot of them and that is hard to dismiss.

I really look forward to hearing Nick's impressions when he gets his cable.

[BTH K10A]

I quoted the part that I was responding to - I think that that is normal when clarity is being sought.



ooh look, done it again.

All the best. Guy

Of course you have, I never for once imagined you capable of giving fair and honest response to my question.

[Marco]

Guys, I'm not taking sides here, but if it's going to continue like this, I'll have no option but to close the thread. If you want it to remain open, then cut the personal digs at each other.

Marco.

[Marco]

Ok, the thread was closed last night because I was going to bed and didn't want to log into the forum in the morning with all sorts of pish having kicked off overnight!

Anyway, I'm out all day today, so the thread will remain locked until I return, when at that point I *may* consider re-opening it. However, if so, it'll only be to summarise and conclude the issues raised about NVA interconnects, including allowing anyone else, such as Andrew, who has had positive experiences with said cables, the opportunity to say so and provide some balance against the criticism.

However, any discussion about RD or HFS will be strictly banned, not only on this thread, but throughout the forum in future (there will be an announcement made to this effect in due course), as I no longer want AoS infected with that poison.

Laters! :)

Marco.

[MartinT]

We are re-opening this thread for a short while to allow some balance to the discussions here, and then it will be finally closed. We will furthermore discourage any future discussions of RD and the NVA forum here on AoS on the basis that points become entrenched, circular and ultimately discredit the AoS name.

[MartinT]

I'll go first with two points I wish to make. Firstly about RD's workmanship. I have reviewed two of his speaker cables, the LS6 and LS7. In both cases the workmanship was impeccable with everything nicely soldered and showing good quality joints. I saw no sign of the shoddy workmanship as shown in the earlier photos and can only cast serious doubt that those cables came directly from NVA. I will also say that the speaker cables sounded excellent and offered good value at their respective price points. The LS7 was fully up to the Tellurium Q Ultra Black (which I use) with a slightly different presentation. Can't give it more praise than that (my TQ UB itself beat the pants off the Kimber Select KS-3035 I used to use).

Now about RD's supposed fair play and lack of ad-hominem. I would have a lot more respect for the things he says if he didn't himself constantly fall foul of his own rules. How about not calling AoS members names when, in the vast majority of cases, he hasn't actually met them? Frankly, calling me 'MartinTory' or Marco's boy is laughable but others have been called a lot worse and I take exception to the constant vitriol being flung in their direction. I also wonder at just how many members of Hi-Fi Subjectivist have actually heard a Tellurium Q cable? How is it, then, that a product can be judged and written off without ever hearing it? There are many, many products that sell through dealerships so if you were to eliminate the 'slurp' there wouldn't be much left, would there?

Look to yourselves and tell me that your behaviour hasn't on occasion been disgraceful? For these reasons, I fully support Marco's desire to stop future discussions dead. Over to you all.

[Figlet108]

I wrote this just after the thread was closed and I'm posting it now unmodified from when I originally wrote it...


The facts were misrepresented. I will concede it may not be deliberate but Jason later admits he further stripped back the cable to repair it so making the damage appear worse. Also failed to admit these had been purchased by his friend so he was likely unaware of any mishandling done between them coming from Richard Dunn and his acquiring them. Also he has a history with Richard Dunn which involved evidence being found according to RD of his interfering with HFS web site. Whether the accusations are true or not given the history between Jason and RD it can't be ruled out that the way he presented that photograph may have been somewhat influenced by their relationship. So there is no way I will withdraw any comment except to apologise to Barry who innocently took everything at face value before making his unwise criticisms.

Paul.

Paul, there was no misrepresentation only misinterpretation.
I posted a photo without comment. It should be obvious to anyone that I had stripped back the cable to reveal the break. No one is saying that any manufacturer is going to supply a cable with torn shrink wrap flapping about an inch behind the cable, so let's be sensible. Have another look at the photo. If I was trying to stage it to look worse I would have snipped it neat to make it look intended from manufacture. And saying I 'later admitted' it implies that I originally denied it or tried to conceal it which is clearly not the case.
In fact, unless I have misunderstood, no one has criticized that aspect of the cable. The criticism is for the length of exposed conductor, the silver one in the middle, which RD has already acknowledged and tried to justify.

Secondly, I work with the friend that bought the cable every single day. I know for a fact he didn't mess around with the cable. He only had it for a few short weeks, so nothing relevant to disclose in that case, and again no reason for your use of the word 'admit' and the negative connotations you intended.

The photo was not 'presented' - I picked it up and snapped a photo within seconds. The cable was already like that on my workbench without the plastic bit and with shrink-wrap peeled back in preparation for re-soldering.

Having said all that, why not just join the discussion and ask your own questions and make your own points? Why not come and ask objectively and politely about the details of the photo - I would have responded objectively and politely as I'm doing right now? Why bring RD's insults and aggression to AOS? RD is banned from AOS (and most other forums) for a reason, so why paste in his insults against me when those insults have nothing to do with this thread?
You have conceded that I didn't deliberately misrepresent facts, but you refuse to retract your statements to the contrary in the original post. You also haven't removed Barry's quote and you haven't removed RD's hate-infused quote that has sparked most of this. What's your agenda Paul?

And finally I need to address the point about interfering with HFS.
Since my break up with RD I have interfered with the HFS forum on 2 occasions.
I was the admin for HFS and it was me that originally set it up in its current form (something for which I sincerely apologies to the rest of the hifi community). When I handed it over to Terry I insisted that he change all the passwords so I could be shot of the whole thing. Whatever Terry thinks he did I found I still had admin access, and my 'interference' has been through that admin account on both occasions, so RD's rants about me hacking into the site and being a 'child hacker' are simply convenient for his continued character assassination attempts.

The first interference came after RD insulted the wife of a customer who sent in his broken SSPs to be fixed ;)
Honestly, I'm not making this up - the AOS thread is here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?25853-NVA-substitutes). Interesting to re-read that actually, and see Moonshiner's comments and also the interactions of many of the same people as on this thread.
I commented that there was never an excuse to insult a customer's wife (which incidentally is the kind of behaviour that put me off working with RD) and RD then proceeded to post hate, lies and libel against me on HFS. So I simply logged into HFS as admin and removed the comments about me. For a few days or so, any future comments about me were also deleted in the same way until I couldn't be bothered doing it any more.

The second interference came when I realized that as an NVA customer I felt I had been deceived regarding 2 'Statement' amps I bought back in 2010. I discovered that these 2 'Statement' amps were in fact A80s but in a different case: same transformers, same circuit, everything the same except the case. RD justifies it and now insists that one type of acrylic case sounds significantly better than another acrylic case! Again, I'm not making this up folks.
At the time I wanted to get a response about the matter and I created a new HFS account, went on and politely asked my question as an NVA user. I got no response from RD to explain that it was because of the case that it was a Statement amp, I just had my post deleted and my membership removed. Having spent over £2000 on those amps, that's just not acceptable.
So I logged on as admin again, threw off all the other admins and asked my question again and again and again until I finally got the answer: that it was the case that made it a Statement amp.
I did no harm to the forum and made it clear that once I had got an answer (and dealt with the existing libel and character assassination that had built about me) I would leave.
The whole incident lasted about an hour or two before the site was taken down. When it came back up all my posts had been deleted and the rewriting of history had again begun. If I had wanted to harm HFS I had the opportunity to delete the whole forum every day for months.


Let's please keep this thread about the cable and not drag other unrelated topics into it...

[r100]

I also wonder at just how many members of Hi-Fi Subjectivist have actually heard a Tellurium Q cable

:lol::stalks::doh:

oh, btw. I have some LS1 cables which are very good at least compared to the pair of thick gauge copper cables I had before ... but the outer sheath did come loose and for the users own mental health, it is not recommended to run them in parallel because of capacitance issues :D:D:D

[julesd68]

Let's please keep this thread about the cable and not drag other unrelated topics into it...

That would be fantastic, but half of your reply is about 'unrelated topics', so I expect some people will want to comment on them!!

[Figlet108]

That would be fantastic, but half of your reply is about 'unrelated topics', so I expect some people will want to comment on them!!

Then I suggest anyone who wants to discuss any of the unrelated topics sends me a pm and I'll happily answer any questions you have :)

[Audioman]

Jason.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm quite happy to withdraw any accusations I made. Frankly the photo on initial observation could have been assumed to represent the initial failure. My point was that other issues may have had some influence on your posting the cable in state of repair as turns out. My worry was this may unfairly portray this as typical when many people report complete satisfaction with RD's cables. I'm sorry to hear you feel that you were conned by the Statement NVA product. They were considerably more expensive and I am wondering how the case could improve the sound. Frankly going by Richard's philosophy of keeping it simple they may do the opposite. It's notable that the 'statement' range is not available at present on ebay. However it can't be denied that NVA product does represent superb value for money when compared to hi-fi sold through retailers both bricks and mortar and on-line.

While I can understand your actions re-entering the HFS web site as admin I think may have been a little unwise in hindsight. So wiping of the current admins access was not right and proper in my view and could leave you open to criminal action. Richard does boast how he accidently was given admin rights on another forum and spied on their 'secret' conversations, so a bit of the pot calling the kettle black here. Frankly I don't want to take sides here but just avoid any unjustified NVA bashing.

Paul.

[synsei]

Now that this thread has been hacked to shreds it is difficult to document just how it developed, however it all started to go horribly wrong from post 10... :rolleyes:

Boys, if you are going to start throwing your weight about then at least abide by your own rules, eh? Either make a stand against this tyrannical twat or STFU about him, you can't have it both ways... :rolleyes:

[Marco]

Indeed, Dave. As Martin has said, the thread has been re-opened, for a short while, simply to allow some people (on both sides of the fence) to have their fair say. I *really* hate locking threads (and thus stifling discussion or 'gagging' people) unless it is absolutely necessary.

However, this one will duly be closed once 'business has been concluded', as it were, on the main subjects under discussion - and then in future all chat about RD and HFS will be strictly banned. Therefore, your further constructive input is welcomed, or if you have nothing more to add, then I would ignore this thread until it is killed.

Marco.

[Audio Al]

I am loosing the will to live , keep seeing this thread pop up , and all the previous NVA topics

And I am not reading it either

Does anyone know a site for slanging matches ? .co .uk or .com

[Andrew B]

I have to agree. Apart from Martin Ts initial comments about NVA cables, nothing else has stuck to Marcos initial stipulation on re opening the thread. Did anyone even bother to read this:

"However, any discussion about RD or HFS will be strictly banned, not only on this thread, but throughout the forum in future (there will be an announcement made to this effect in due course), as I no longer want AoS infected with that poison."

[Figlet108]

Thanks for the explanation. I'm quite happy to withdraw any accusations I made...
Thank you Paul, I appreciate it.


...My worry was this may unfairly portray this as typical when many people report complete satisfaction with RD's cables...
Agreed, and I believe that RD himself has said on HFS that he gets about 10% of SSPs sent back broken. Although, don't quote me on that and there's a thread about it on HFS (but I don't dare go on HFS and find it - I don't think I can bear to see what they are writing about me right now :( )


...I'm sorry to hear you feel that you were conned by the Statement NVA product. They were considerably more expensive and I am wondering how the case could improve the sound. Frankly going by Richard's philosophy of keeping it simple they may do the opposite. It's notable that the 'statement' range is not available at present on ebay...
As well as those 'Statements' I also have an older metal case A80 and a newer acrylic A80. I could start a thread reporting my bake off findings but there's no point. They all sound the same, and I'll just attract more hate posts on HFS... Statements are not on ebay, you need to contact RD directly for those.


However it can't be denied that NVA product does represent superb value for money when compared to hi-fi sold through retailers both bricks and mortar and on-line.
Again, completely agree. I own 2x 'Statement' amps, 2x A80s, 2x A60s, 1x A40, 1xAP20, 1xP90SA, 1xP50, 1x vintage TIS and various speaker and interconnect cables. Let me repeat: in my opinion and experience NVA = good sound; good value; poor construction / fit'n'finish; and potentially very poor service. Others will have a different opinion and experience. Hopefully at this point in the thread you can believe that to be a genuine opinion based on experience as a user and not a biased and prejudiced agenda.


...While I can understand your actions re-entering the HFS web site as admin I think may have been a little unwise in hind site...
Again, I don't disagree. Heat of the moment stuff based on emotion and frustration. Sometimes bullies need to be confronted...


...Frankly I don't want to take sides here but just avoid any unjustified NVA bashing.
No one wants to see any business bashed without justification, including resellers, distributors, more successful hifi brands and hifi press.
It would also be nice if people, reviewers, forums and moderators were also not bashed without justification...

thanks,
Jason

[Audioman]

Now that this thread has been hacked to shreds it is difficult to document just how it developed, however it all started to go horribly wrong from post 10... :rolleyes:

Boys, if you are going to start throwing your weight about then at least abide by your own rules, eh? Either make a stand against this tyrannical twat or STFU about him, you can't have it both ways... :rolleyes:

Dave you can't complain and then call RD a tyrannical twat. The problem is that as soon as anybody mentions NVA people who have fallen out with him use it to slag of his products which as far as I know are excellent and professionally made. All the instances of faulty product highlighted appear to have been sourced second hand or been obtained indirectly. Not purchased straight from NVA via the Ebay shop. For everyone who has an issue with Richard Dunn I meet someone who has nothing but praise. I know he will repair anything without question that is still under warranty.

Paul.

[Marco]

The first interference came after RD insulted the wife of a customer who sent in his broken SSPs to be fixed...

Honestly, I'm not making this up - the AOS thread is here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?25853-NVA-substitutes). Interesting to re-read that actually, and see Moonshiner's comments and also the interactions of many of the same people as on this thread.
I commented that there was never an excuse to insult a customer's wife (which incidentally is the kind of behaviour that put me off working with RD)

Hear, hear (on both accounts)!! I'm afraid that it's another valid example of RD's ridiculous double standards, together with how out of touch he is with reality, as he frequently accuses others of behaving exactly as he does, yet when he behaves that way, it's allowed!!! :D :mental:

He accuses me (for example) of 'insulting' his wife, which I proved elsewhere was complete nonsense, yet he blatantly insults the wife of one of his customers, and considers that behaviour as acceptable. Like I said: total and utter double-standards and zero grasp of reality.

As has been said before, the biggest problem with the man is his fundamentally abrasive nature towards people and lack of self-awareness, coupled with either his inability to realise this (i.e. he considers his aggressive and confrontational temperament as 'normal'), or he fully realises exactly how he is, but doesn't give a f*ck. Unfortunately, if it's the latter, then that fully explains why he's always at the centre of conflict - and always will be unless HIS attitude improves.

Quite simply, if you treat people with utter disdain and contempt then don't be surprised when they return the compliment!!!

RD is on record as saying:


"Now a statement of fact, I am a reactionary, I do not initiate conflict, never have done and I challenge anyone to find where I have done so. BUT if people attack me or NVA then they have declared war and I will enjoy responding in as strong a manner as I can."


The above ably proves what I've referred to above, as he seems totally unable to grasp (or admit) that it is most often his abrasive nature towards people, in the first place, that initiates the conflict! Furthermore, examine the ridiculous language he uses: "they have declared WAR". War? Have you ever heard anything so utterly absurd?? It's a hi-fi forum, FFS...!! That says a lot about how the man's addled brain works! :doh:

One of the main reasons for RD being banned from AoS was because of his inability (in normal conversation) to stop referring to people as 'idiots', who either just simply didn't agree with him or who perhaps hadn't fully understood what on earth he was on about. This lead to all sorts of conflict, when the person who RD had called an 'idiot' returned the compliment (sometimes with interest), whom RD of course then declared 'war' upon (as he could only see their insult and not his original inflammatory remark that had kicked it all off)!!

The knock-on effect of this was that the mod team and I were inundated with reported posts, both from RD himself (as he felt that he had been the only victim) and also all those he had insulted, originally unprovoked. This got so bad that I couldn't leave the bloody house, and the forum 'unattended', for fear of returning to World War Three!!! It was a totally untenable situation, and so regardless of anything else, that was the main reason why RD had to go. I simply had no intention of bringing that level of daily aggravation and stress into my life. He will never accept this of course, but I can assure you that it's the truth.

Perhaps, in 'his world' it's acceptable (unprovoked) to refer to people as 'idiots', and/or where similarly abrasive and aggressive behaviour is considered 'the norm', but certainly not in the world I (and other decent people) inhabit. I'm simply not used to dealing with bad tempered, rude and argumentitive people and being addressed in such a disrespectful way, as RD appears to consider as acceptable. I'm used to being surrounded by cheery, pleasant, well-mannered, well-adjusted, non-aggressive people in real life, and therefore I refuse to share webspace with someone who is the complete opposite and who appears to care not one jot for anyone but himself. That's it in a nutshell.


"The onus is on the person who created the conflict to end it, not me."


No, my friend, the onus is on YOU to behave like a decent human being, by treating others with politeness and respect when they have done nothing (or very little) to deserve otherwise - then the vast majority of the conflict you so readily attract will disappear. However, pigs will fly before that happens.

Marco.

[Marco]

I have to agree. Apart from Martin Ts initial comments about NVA cables, nothing else has stuck to Marcos initial stipulation on re opening the thread. Did anyone even bother to read this:

"However, any discussion about RD or HFS will be strictly banned, not only on this thread, but throughout the forum in future (there will be an announcement made to this effect in due course), as I no longer want AoS infected with that poison."

In fairness, Andrew, I did stipulate that the above rule would be applied AFTER this thread has been closed and all parties have had their fair say. Therefore, this is the final opportunity for everyone to 'get things off of their chest', if they feel so inclined. There is a limit, though! ;)

Marco.

[Audioman]

In fairness to those on AOS who are asking WTF is HFS and to RD having a right of reply here is a link to the AOS thread on HFS. Peeps can then draw their own conclusions about the situation.


http://hifisubjectivist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=44759&p=74228#p74228

[Andrew B]

Hi Marco.

If that was your intention, I'm afraid it didn't come across that way. If you look at your words that I quoted, the discussion of HFS or NVA was to be strictly banned "not only in his thread, but throughout the forum in future".

To me, this looks like you're saying such discussion would be banned henceforth on this reopened thread until it is closed and then also banned from the forum in future. It wouldn't make sense to ban mention of HFS or RD on this thread after it was closed because nobody could post anyway.

Your comments also made it clear that you had only reopened the thread for balance and comments on NVA interconnects, not all the other stuff. To me, your rationale of not wanting AoS to be infected with "poison" would make it difficult to see why the off-topic posts on his thread are something you'd want to carry on. If we return to the OP and his question, it looks like massive thread crapping to me.

Just so I'm not quoting you out of context and to save anyone flicking back, here is your post in entirety:

"Ok, the thread was closed last night because I was going to bed and didn't want to log into the forum in the morning with all sorts of pish having kicked off overnight!

Anyway, I'm out all day today, so the thread will remain locked until I return, when at that point I *may* consider re-opening it. However, if so, it'll only be to summarise and conclude the issues raised about NVA interconnects, including allowing anyone else, such as Andrew, who has had positive experiences with said cables, the opportunity to say so and provide some balance against the criticism."

However, any discussion about RD or HFS will be strictly banned, not only on this thread, but throughout the forum in future (there will be an announcement made to this effect in due course), as I no longer want AoS infected with that poison."

[WOStantonCS100]

What I'd like to see at this point... considering the title of this thread, is someone else who has a working pair of NVA interconnects. They can unscrew it and show some pics. If there is "a country mile" of lead exposed we can close the door on how well or how NOT well these ICs are put together. This would give some (more) validation as to the theory that they sound good... but are assembled poorly.

[Andrew B]

What I'd like to see at this point... considering the title of this thread, is someone else who has a WORKING pair of NVA interconnects. They can unscrew it and show some pics. If there is "a country mile" of lead exposed we can close the door on how well or how NOT well these ICs are put together. This would give some validation as to the theory that they sound good... but are assembled poorly.

This has already been covered by the maker. The outer of both signal and return is a solid copper tube. According to him, it has to be stripped back a bit further than usual to prevent it shorting out the connection. It is not like other cables in this respect and his explanation makes perfect sense to me, although I'm not a techie.

There is also a pic on here already from Jason, which I think is the other lead from the pair he stripped back. This one is still intact. No harm in more pics if anyone has them though. I'd still be every interested to hear from the OP when he gets his leads.

[WOStantonCS100]

This has already been covered by the maker. The outer of both signal and return is a solid copper tube. According to him, it has to be stripped back a bit further than usual to prevent it shorting out the connection. It is not like other cables in this respect and his explanation makes perfect sense to me, although I'm not a techie.

There is also a pic on here already from Jason, which I think is the other lead from the pair he stripped back. This one is still intact. No harm in more pics if anyone has them though. I'd still be every interested to hear from the OP when he gets his leads.

Not buying that. The copper tube(s) have to, themselves, be insulated, even if thinly, or they would short inside the cable, per the picture. This has to mean they (copper tubes) are both shields. No matter, though, even if it was necessary to leave that much lead exposed, which I just don't believe, I would put liquid insulation over that much exposed lead; the same stuff I put on turrets after I solder a lead (from say a resistor or a capacitor) to it. That just looks bad. I have not seen any other cables soldered this way by a person or company I would trust.

Thinking about it further, if this is the way it "must" be done, it seems to me this is just a mismatch of materials and perhaps there is simply a more sympathetic combination of cable/connector to be utilized. No matter how good the cable and connector, if they don't work well together for both sound and durability... ...what's the point?

[walpurgis]

My goodness, this poor old thread has been chewed to death. All Nick wanted to know was if anybody had tried NVA cables.

[Figlet108]

...All the instances of faulty product highlighted appear to have been sourced second hand or been obtained indirectly. Not purchased straight from NVA via the Ebay shop. For everyone who has an issue with Richard Dunn I meet someone who has nothing but praise. I know he will repair anything without question that is still under warranty.
Sorry Paul, I'm afraid neither of those 2 statements are 100% true.
One of my original SSPs from a few years back broke. It was not with the Pro-fi plug. I had bought it new direct from the ebay site, before I had ever met RD. I sent it back and it was repaired free (aside from postage). Service perfectly acceptable on that occasion. It actually broke again a few months later (at which point I decided it was time to learn to solder - I'm still learning :) ).
The cable in question from my friend, I think we can now agreed was bought new from the ebay site and broke.
During my years on HFS I saw a number of folks who had bought new cable and sent it in for repair.
Yes, it is not the common case - no one is saying it is - but it happens.

Secondly he won't repair 'anything without question'. If he ends up hating you enough you end up on the NVA Black List as some of us here on AOS have discovered. Incidentally I've just had one of my A60s blow an amp board on one channel last month. I see it as an opportunity to now learn about how to repair amplifiers myself - I'm currently working my way through "Electronics for Dummies" - the things you learn about electrons is wild :D

[Gordon Steadman]

I think I would have just left this thread closed:(

[Figlet108]

In fairness to those on AOS who are asking WTF is HFS and to RD having a right of reply here is a link to the AOS thread on HFS. Peeps can then draw their own conclusions about the situation.
http://hifisubjectivist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=44759&p=74228#p74228

Well I always say, the fastest and most effective way to discredit RD is to just point folks to his site and let him speak for himself.
Frankly he is better off when Gordon, Paul and Andrew are speaking for him. At least they behave like gentlemen and with dignity.

[WOStantonCS100]

My goodness, this poor old thread has been chewed to death. All Nick wanted to know was if anybody had tried NVA cables.

Not trying to be a pisser; but, the question was "I was thinking of trying some NVA interconnects and wondered whether anyone had any experiences of using them - good or bad?"

Should we not take the bad with the good in the interest of full disclosure? Just saying... I'd rather have all the information I can get about a product before buying it.

[Alan]

NVA cable are very good, they are good value, and they don't usually break (only the SSP is fragile in this regard). Soundcords in particular are excellent sounding cables that cost peanuts.

Here is a set of 40cm SSP (supersoundpipes), factory terminated at NVA towers:

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii165/brownalan/NVA%20TSS%20-%20The%20Second%20Statement/IMAG0273.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/user/brownalan/media/NVA%20TSS%20-%20The%20Second%20Statement/IMAG0273.jpg.html)

There isn't a lot of exposed signal wire to be fair, and the soldering looks OK - but they are vulnerable to breakage if they are plugged/unplugged often, especially if the user twists them. They rely on the thin piece of flat metal leading from the plug barrel to the wire clamp, and the actual cable itself, for stiffness. This places strain on the solder joint. There is no published warning on the ebay listing about the need to be careful with them, it just seems to be expected that people know how treat them. To be fair, once plugged in they aren't going to break, and most sensible people leave their cables well alone.

I, on the other hand, have broken plenty of these! So much so I learned to repair them myself (and put Profi plugs on with the strain relief inserts).

Other than these and some other odd cable-y bits, I no longer have any connection with NVA or their products. I just saw the request for a pic and thought I could help.

[Barry]

Possible explanation for the fragility of NVA Sound Pipes when fitted with Neutrik ProFi connectors


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-IE87XlebSSk/Uhiy6MMpzAI/AAAAAAAACDw/BW5ve1Wq7Ow/w1033-h689-no/IMG_7354_resize.JPG

Without wishing in any way to kick the “hornet’s nest” of recent discussion, I would like to propose a possible explanation for the reported fragility of the NVA Sound Pipe interconnects when fitted with Neutrik ProFi connectors, as shown in the photograph above.

According to the NVA site (http://www.nene-valley-audio.com/frames/nva/cables.html), the Sound Pipe interconnects “are revolutionary new cables utilizing military grade materials used in jet fighters.” If one looks at the photograph one can see two copper-coloured coaxial cables about 2mm in diameter. I believe the cable used is 085 semi-rigid coaxial cable. This coaxial cable has an outer diameter of 0.085"(= 2.16mm), hence the designation, with a solid copper sheath. The dielectric is either solid polythene or PTFE and the inner conductor is ‘copperweld’ which may, or may not, be silver-plated. It has a diameter of 0.020" (= 0.51mm). ‘Copperweld’ is the trade name for copper covered steel wire. It is made by an exclusive molten welding process, whereby a thick copper covering is inseparately welded to a steel core.

There are two points to note here: first, the cables are stiff, but malleable - when bent or formed into a shape, the shape remains; and second, the inner conductor is very thin.

In preparing these cables special cable trimming tools are required. To trim back the solid copper outer a special jig is used which prevents the fine-toothed coping saw to cut any deeper than the wall thickness, so as not to damage the dielectric. When the dielectric is trimmed back, again a special jig is used which prevents the inner conductor from being ‘nicked’ and damaged. If the latter jig is not used, it is very difficult to guarantee the inner core has not been nicked and thus weakened.

From the photograph it would appear that the outer conductor and dielectric of the cables have been trimmed back together, exposing several mm of the inner conductor. And where the one of the inner conductors has broken, it is right at the point where both the outer conductor and dielectric have been cut back, suggesting the inner wire had become nicked in the process.

Now despite the weakness, the nicking of the inner conductor would not necessarily lead to failure if the cables were fully and firmly supported. The construction of the Sound Pipes, have the two semi-rigid cables held in contact along their length by a sheath of heat-shrink sleeving, over which a woven polymer braid is used, presumably for cosmetic reasons. (Electrically connecting the two outer conductors together means the interconnect has half the capacitance per unit length, compared with that of a single cable). The two cables clad in the heat-shrink sleeving means the overall assembly is now quite stiff.

NVA offer two options for the connectors fitted to the Sound Pipes. One is the fitting of more conventional style RCA phonos, where one assumes the cable clamping arrangement is sufficient to prevent the cable being ‘flexed’ with respect to the connector. The second option is to fit Neutrik ProFi RCA connectors, and these are the connectors shown in the photograph.

The cable clamping arrangement of the ProFi connectors uses a plastic collet: sufficient for flexible coaxial cables, but not for the pair of semi-rigid cables used here. It is quite likely the compliant plastic collet can allow the cable pair to flex within the collet, and if any of the inner conductors have been weakened they will break at point of weakness.

This is a criticism of neither semi-rigid cable, nor of the ProFi connectors: they just weren’t designed to be used together.

I believe this explains the fragility of these interconnects when terminated with these specific connectors.

[Ned664]

My goodness, this poor old thread has been chewed to death. All Nick wanted to know was if anybody had tried NVA cables.

Thank you Geoff! I will be picking up these interconnects tomorrow and will be reporting back on how they sound. That is all that is important to me.

[Marco]

Hi Marco.

If that was your intention, I'm afraid it didn't come across that way. If you look at your words that I quoted, the discussion of HFS or NVA was to be strictly banned "not only in his thread, but throughout the forum in future".

To me, this looks like you're saying such discussion would be banned henceforth on this reopened thread until it is closed and then also banned from the forum in future. It wouldn't make sense to ban mention of HFS or RD on this thread after it was closed because nobody could post anyway.

Your comments also made it clear that you had only reopened the thread for balance and comments on NVA interconnects, not all the other stuff. To me, your rationale of not wanting AoS to be infected with "poison" would make it difficult to see why the off-topic posts on his thread are something you'd want to carry on. If we return to the OP and his question, it looks like massive thread crapping to me.

Just so I'm not quoting you out of context and to save anyone flicking back, here is your post in entirety:

"Ok, the thread was closed last night because I was going to bed and didn't want to log into the forum in the morning with all sorts of pish having kicked off overnight!

Anyway, I'm out all day today, so the thread will remain locked until I return, when at that point I *may* consider re-opening it. However, if so, it'll only be to summarise and conclude the issues raised about NVA interconnects, including allowing anyone else, such as Andrew, who has had positive experiences with said cables, the opportunity to say so and provide some balance against the criticism."

However, any discussion about RD or HFS will be strictly banned, not only on this thread, but throughout the forum in future (there will be an announcement made to this effect in due course), as I no longer want AoS infected with that poison."

Hi Andrew,

I can't dispute anything you've written, mate, especially in terms of thread crapping (and I can only apologise to the OP for that), but sadly that's often how discussions about NVA go. When one has been subjected to the level of bile and abuse that others and I here have endured from RD (mostly unjustified), it's inevitable that occasionally a response to that slips into the public domain, no matter how much one tries to rise above it. We are, after all, only human. However, the new ruling will put an end to such comment in future!

When I initially mentioned about the ban on discussing RD and/or HFS on this thread, as well as in future, that was before I received numerous PMs from members asking me to re-open the thread to allow them to make further comment, mainly about the quality of the construction of the cables in question, some of which we're seeing now. Therefore I changed my mind and have allowed both RD and HFS (as well as SSP interconnects or anything else NVA) to be discussed on this thread, but only for a short while, as far as the former is concerned.

Once this thread has been closed (and the time I have set for this is midnight tonight), all future mention of RD or HFS will be banned forever, although relevant hi-fi discussion about NVA products will remain unaffected. Therefore, look upon this thread as an opportunity for anyone who feels the need to 'vent' (within reason) to do so, as rest assured, such an opportunity will not arise again in future. So if you've got anything to say (free from blatant invective) regarding RD or HFS, or you think RD is wonderful and would love to have his babies, now is the time (until midnight) to get it all off of your chest!!

As they say, speak now or forever hold your peace... :)

Marco.

[Gordon Steadman]

Well I always say, the fastest and most effective way to discredit RD is to just point folks to his site and let him speak for himself.
Frankly he is better off when Gordon, Paul and Andrew are speaking for him. At least they behave like gentlemen and with dignity.

Thanks of course but I wasn't speaking for him, I was speaking for myself. My main argument still applies. If anyone might be seen to be doing a bit of reverse shilling its a bad thing to my mind,

[Figlet108]

Great post Barry! Easily the most constructive on this thread.

So, given that I am poised to repair said cable, what can I do to fix them properly once and for all so that they don't break again?
I am open to any connector and process that I can carry out at home.

Thanks!

[The Black Adder]

YAY!.. I can't wait until midnight... :lol:

[Ali Tait]

As previously suggested, a liquid insulator might help, it sets like Mastic so would help to support the cable.

[wee tee cee]

midnight cant come quick enough......this site is a pleasant place to discuss my hobby and get help and advice from those more knowledgeable........I occasionally visit other sites and feel the need to wash my hands afterwards,after very little reading.......glad this is soon to be put to bed.

[WOStantonCS100]

Thanks Alan and Barry...

These two posts point out exactly why someone should be concerned (at least w/ the SSPs). As noted, and would have to be the case, the inner signal wire is sheathed by a dielectric to keep it from contacting the outer copper tube or else, in the case of the signal side of the cable, if the inner wire were to touch the copper tube, it would short out. The entire cable would then be one conductor. So, implementation is everything. It seems to make sense to me to peel/cut the outer copper tube of the signal wire BUT leave the dielectric on the signal wire right up until it gets to the tab on the connector. In all the pictures posted so far, including Alan's recent pics with RCA terminations, this has not been done.

[selby]

I thought forums were a place for people to ask questions, find answers and further enjoy their hobby. Not to act like a bunch of kids, picking on people, slagging people off and generally behaving like spoilt babies.

Grow up, delete the thread and if you want to discuss cables without dragging up personal issues please do so, otherwise for me this forum is a no no.

[WOStantonCS100]

I thought forums were a place for people to ask questions, find answers and further enjoy their hobby. Not to act like a bunch of kids, picking on people, slagging people off and generally behaving like spoilt babies.

Grow up, delete the thread and if you want to discuss cables without dragging up personal issues please do so, otherwise for me this forum is a no no.

:lol: Right, James. That's what I've been attempting to do, by just addressing the cable(s).

[Ali Tait]

I thought forums were a place for people to ask questions, find answers and further enjoy their hobby. Not to act like a bunch of kids, picking on people, slagging people off and generally behaving like spoilt babies.

Grow up, delete the thread and if you want to discuss cables without dragging up personal issues please do so, otherwise for me this forum is a no no.

Perhaps your post should be put up on HFS too. :rolleyes:

[Barry]

Great post Barry! Easily the most constructive on this thread.

So, given that I am poised to repair said cable, what can I do to fix them properly once and for all so that they don't break again?
I am open to any connector and process that I can carry out at home.

Thanks!

Well, apart from dispensing with the Profi connectors altogether, and fitting something like those shown in Alan's photo (post 130), all you can do is to assure the inner conductor is not damaged when you cut back both the copper outer and the dielectric. You will have to be very, very careful.

If you can manage it, I suggest you cut back the outer allowing say 5mm of dielectric to remain, then trim the dielectric using wire strippers which can have the depth of cut set to 0.5mm. Strip the dielectric back 2mm, exposing 2mm of inner conductor for the connection to the body of the connector. For the conductor that connects to the pin of the connector, I suggest 11mm of exposed dielectric, trimmed back to 9mm.

When you fit the strain relief collet and the outer barrel of the Profi plug, try to tighten them as hard as you can. It won't be foolproof and you will still have to handle the cables carefully. Ironically the Neutrik Profi plug when mated with a phono socket, grips the socket like there's no tomorrow, so when de-mating you will have to be extraordinarily careful!

Good Luck!

[Marco]

For everyone who has an issue with Richard Dunn I meet someone who has nothing but praise.


Sure, but show me ONE person in the latter category, who has arrived at that 'happy state of affairs', and who hasn't simply just given RD money in return for product(s) or licked his arse/stroked his ego, but has instead challenged him legitimately in some way....?

The fact is, there are only three types of people I know of who remain on good terms with RD for any length of time:

1) 'Satisfied customers' (i.e. mostly those who have simply bought something from NVA, and been satisfied with it, without ever having any need to contact RD again). It's naturally very easy to remain on good terms with him that way.

2) The resident arse-lickers on his forum who kowtow to RD's every whim, for fear of falling out with him and being 'blacklisted', thus suffering the consequences in terms of having existing product repaired or being supplied with new product (remember that RD is on record saying that he'll only deal with those he likes!!) or being banned from HFS, and having nothing else worthwhile to do with their lives, as clearly that is the extent of their available 'entertainment'.

3) His wife.

Marco.

[WOStantonCS100]

Well, apart from dispensing with the Profi connectors altogether, and fitting something like those shown in Alan's photo (post 130), all you can do is to assure the inner conductor is not damaged when you cut back both the copper outer and the dielectric. You will have to be very, very careful.

If you can manage it, I suggest you cut back the outer allowing say 5mm of dielectric to remain, then trim the dielectric using wire strippers which can have the depth of cut set to 0.5mm. Strip the dielectric back 2mm, exposing 2mm of inner conductor for the connection to the body of the connector. For the conductor that connects to the pin of the connector, I suggest 11mm of exposed dielectric, trimmed back to 9mm.

When you fit the strain relief collet and the outer barrel of the Profi plug, try to tighten them as hard as you can. It won't be foolproof and you will still have to handle the cables carefully. Ironically the Neutrik Profi plug when mated with a phono socket, grips the socket like there's no tomorrow, so when de-mating you will have to be extraordinarily careful!

Good Luck!

Yes. Exactly. Agreed. What he said. :)

[Marco]

Barry, just in case you haven't read RD's response to you on his forum. Here it is:


"I give up we have another self appointed expert (Barry) who has never used the cable telling me how they should be made. All he has done is read on line information about their use in their #1 application as radar or microwave cable. A RCA plug wouldn't even pass those frequencies so he is talking bollocks out some hole or other. The description is for stripping the cable for fitting to SMA plug when used for multi Ghz application, not for audio applications.

If he wants to be an expert let him buy some of the cable and make some interconnects and then comment."


A challenge, perhaps? It would be an interesting exercise for the potential benefit of AoS members (and you) :)

Marco.

P.S Ali, I presume you've read his response to you, regarding your suggestion...? ;)

[Figlet108]

Thanks Barry, Biff, Ali.

2 quick follow-on questions.
The phono connectors in Alan's post are the ones that came with my original cables that I bought direct from NVA. In my experience they break *much* more easily than the profis. Did you guys mean to fit them just as in Alan's photo, or have I misunderstood?

Also, if I wanted to try the liquid insulation, you know, just to experiment with new techniques, can someone please find a link to a product I can buy? Sorry to be a bit of a numpty, but I just can't find anything on Google and I wonder if I'm searching for the wrong thing...

Thanks folks.

[Andrew B]

As there are some contributors to this thread who are sticking to the topic of the cable, I thought it worthwhile mentioning that some of the points made about construction and dealing with this unusual cable have been challenged by the manufacturer.

I'm posting a link here for this purpose only, as my trying to reiterate technical points about construction would probably be as accurate and meaningful as anything my avatar would say :)

http://hifisubjectivist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=44759&start=2910

I'd find it hard to believe anyone here has anything like the same amount of experience with this stuff, so at the very least I feel it's worth contributors taking a look.

[chelsea]

Would prefer to see cable threads banned on every forum.
Complete waste of time and space.

[Ali Tait]

Barry, just in case you haven't read RD's response to you on his forum. Here it is:



A challenge, perhaps? It would be an interesting exercise for the potential benefit of AoS members (and you) :)

Marco.

P.S Ali, I presume you've read his response to you, regarding your suggestion...? ;)

No, I don't go there anymore mate.

[Barry]

Barry, just in case you haven't read RD's response to you on his forum. Here it is:



A challenge, perhaps? It would be an interesting exercise for the potential benefit of AoS members (and you) :)

Marco.

P.S Ali, I presume you've read his response to you, regarding your suggestion...? ;)

Haha! Perhaps RD should be told that I do have practical experience with 085 semi-rigid cable: I specified their use for radar system components I designed, when I worked at the Marconi Research Laboratories. The description for stripping the cable I reported is such so that the inner conductor will not become damaged.

Nice to know I have joined the ranks of the illustrious few! :lol:

[Marco]

No, I don't go there anymore mate.

Okies, here it is:


"Wont solve it, I have tried it. I have been using variants of this cable since late 1980's. The only way to get idiot proof use of this cable is to use SMA plugs. The original Statement amps had SMA sockets for mating to these cable, but no one believed me and most asked for the amps to have RCA phono, so I gave up trying to educate and change the industry to a new standard. BUT if anyone is doing a home build I thoroughly recommend you use SMA throughout if you can't hardwire.

Also Ali this mastic changes the electrical characteristics of the cable as it is an additional dielectric, when I tried it it changed the sound."


Marco.

[WOStantonCS100]

As there are some contributors to this thread who are sticking to the topic of the cable, I thought it worthwhile mentioning that some of the points made about construction and dealing with this unusual cable have been challenged by the manufacturer.

I'm posting a link here for this purpose only, as my trying to reiterate technical points about construction would probably be as accurate and meaningful as anything my avatar would say :)

http://hifisubjectivist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=44759&start=2910

I'd find it hard to believe anyone here has anything like the same amount of experience with this stuff, so at the very least I feel it's worth contributors taking a look.

By his own admission, these cables were not designed to be used with the terminators he has chosen. So, right there he has opened up a whole can of worms. Thus, some how it's the end user's fault when problems arise with the durability of said product????? And, thinking out of the box are we? How 'bout not going halfway with it. How about figuring out how he can use the connectors he wants to use while ALSO providing the usual/normal amount of shielding right up to the tab. Seriously, how much does a tube of liquid insulation cost? (rhetorical question) If he wasn't so self-absorbed I'd send him some for free. Sheeesh...

EDIT: If the liquid insulation changes the sound that much... then maybe he should just accept that he's offering a compromised product and put a warning sticker on the dang things that say "Handle With Considerably More Care Than You Would Any Other Cable You Own Or Are Likely To Ever Own".

[Andrew B]

From what I read, he said the insulation didn't work and had a negative effect on the sound. As for using the cable with RCAs, it is OK as long as no twisting motion is applied.

Edit: this is beginning to feel like "does he take sugar". I suggest anyone genuinely interested in the finer points of cable construction visits HFS and fully reads the posts or perhaps even contributes there.

Anyone genuinely interested in trying the cable can do what the OP has done with a money back guarantee. Anyone who thinks they can do better is also free to try making their own and report back on their experiences once they have some experience.

[Audioman]

Sure, but show me ONE person in the latter category, who has arrived at that 'happy state of affairs', and who hasn't simply just given RD money in return for product(s) or licked his arse/stroked his ego, but has instead challenged him legitimately in some way....?

The fact is, there are only three types of people I know of who remain on good terms with RD for any length of time:

1) 'Satisfied customers' (i.e. mostly those who have simply bought something from NVA, and been satisfied with it, without ever having any need to contact RD again). It's naturally very easy to remain on good terms with him that way.

2) The resident arse-lickers on his forum who kowtow to RD's every whim, for fear of falling out with him and being 'blacklisted', thus suffering the consequences in terms of having existing product repaired or being supplied with new product (remember that RD is on record saying that he'll only deal with those he likes!!) or being banned from HFS, and having nothing else worthwhile to do with their lives, as clearly that is the extent of their available 'entertainment'.

3) His wife.

Marco.

Marco. I would probably be right in assuming that the majority of RD's customers have no connection with forums and are unaware of his internet personality. As far as I can see if you have a fault within guarantee he will repair without any problem. Now I will admit there are certain people that he says he won't service and I'm not sure if any have equipment which he is under any obligation to repair. For instance I don't think given circumstances RD would welcome anything returned from Jason. He did repair the amp in the end from that purchaser who used the wrong cable and had the pushy girlfriend that got an ear full. His main problem is that when dealing with difficult people he forgets the adage 'the customer is always right' even if you think they are idiots.

Anyway when we are talking about fallings out it is in fact a relatively small number of people who usually want to air their grievances on forums rather than sort them out in the normal manor. For example by direct negotiation or failing that trading standards /small claims court as appropriate. I also accept the other people that he has the most difficulty with are forum owners who have banned him for whatever reason be it with good reason or not. I also imagine that he has enough work through internet sales to make him financially viable without having to be nice to anyone that he dislikes. So no incentive to change. Having said that the number of detractors of NVA are suspiciously a regular group you can count on the fingers of both hands. Like to see any evidence of bad product or service in general terms. I know there are loads of traders out there that would make RD look like a saint.

Paul.

[Marco]

By his own admission, these cables were not designed to be used with the terminators he has chosen. So, right there he has opened up a whole can of worms. Thus, some how it's the end user's fault when problems arise with the durability of said product????? And, thinking out of the box are we? How 'bout not going halfway with it. How about figuring out how he can use the connectors he wants to use while ALSO providing the usual/normal amount of shielding right up to the tab. Seriously, how much does a tube of liquid insulation cost? (rhetorical question) If he wasn't so self-absorbed I'd send him some for free. Sheeesh...

EDIT: If the liquid insulation changes the sound that much... then maybe he should just accept that he's offering a compromised product and put a warning sticker on the dang things that say "Handle With Considerably More Care Than You Would Any Other Cable You Own Or Are Likely To Ever Own".

:lol: :lol: :lol:

:clap:

Marco.

[WOStantonCS100]

Haha! Perhaps RD should be told that I do have practical experience with 085 semi-rigid cable: I specified their use for radar system components I designed, when I worked at the Marconi Research Laboratories. The description for stripping the cable I reported is such so that the inner conductor will not become damaged.

Nice to know I have joined the ranks of the illustrious few! :lol:

I guess it would be bad for him to simply admit he doesn't possess the skill to dress the cable in the best way possible. Hmmmm...

[Ali Tait]

Okies, here it is:



Marco.

Okay, that may well be, I too have found the dielectric used can change the sound, as well as the connector.

Possible solution - be fiddly, but if some of the stripped dielectric could be slit lengthways, it could be slid over the bare conductor after soldering, so the liquid insulation would not come in contact with the conductor. Probably not practical from a production point of view, but doable for a DIY fix perhaps.

Not saying it would solve the problem, but I reckon it would help provide some support.

[Marco]

I guess it would be bad for him to simply admit he doesn't possess the skill to dress the cable in the best way possible. Hmmmm...

I suspect that apathy, together with an arguable misplaced sense that the work he produces is superlative, and most importantly, an egotistic satisfaction derived from the fact that it's been 'signed off as adequate by the guru/artisan' (haha), play the biggest part in the reality of the matter! ;)

Marco.

[Ali Tait]

Thanks Barry, Biff, Ali.

2 quick follow-on questions.
The phono connectors in Alan's post are the ones that came with my original cables that I bought direct from NVA. In my experience they break *much* more easily than the profis. Did you guys mean to fit them just as in Alan's photo, or have I misunderstood?

Also, if I wanted to try the liquid insulation, you know, just to experiment with new techniques, can someone please find a link to a product I can buy? Sorry to be a bit of a numpty, but I just can't find anything on Google and I wonder if I'm searching for the wrong thing...

Thanks folks.

Just needs to be something non conductive Jason. Never done anything like this myself, but perhaps something like this would do the job?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Polycraft-SG2000-500g-Fast-Cast-Polyurethane-Liquid-Plastic-Casting-Resin-Kit-/230927759631?pt=UK_Crafts_Other_Crafts_EH&hash=item35c45df90f

[chelsea]

Maybe some people on here could make the cable to show him how to do it.
This thread seems to have not much to do with nva cables but just sticking the boot in on RD.

I have had numerous interconnects fail over the years but don't find the need to whinge on a forum about it.
Why not just resolder it or send it back.

[Andrew B]

Maybe some people on here could make the cable to show him how to do it.
This thread seems to have not much to do with nva cables but just sticking the boot in on RD.

I have had numerous interconnects fail over the years but don't find the need to whinge on a forum about it.
Why not just resolder it or send it back.

I've owned probably two dozen Chord Company cables. Every one broke; some more than once. Sonic link, DNM, Atlas and a number of others all broke too. Never had an NVA cable break, nor a van Den Hul or Rega. They are the only three in over 30 years though.

Edit: I agree about the purpose of the thread now being something other than it started out. It's just a pity that people not only feel the need to try and put others off great value (and bloody good) products, but they also deprive themselves of them too, all because they don't like the maker. I dislike Apple: the marketing, the nerdiness and the horrid little shops. I love their products though, because I find them better and nicer to use. So I buy and use them. To me it's logical.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Whoever made the observation that all cable threads eventually end up in tears was spot on. This thread is no exception. :rolleyes:

[Andrew B]

Whoever made the observation that all cable threads eventually end up in tears was spot on. This thread is no exception. :rolleyes:

And the real irony is that those who contribute most prolifically are either die hard followers on the one side and either haters or skeptics on the other. The protracted debate has little or no effect on ordinary buyers who just don't have the level of interest or entrenched position.

[Gordon Steadman]

This has just turned into 'get your own back' fest and has proved that the lowest common denominator tends to prevail.

Roll on midnight and I hope I never see this here again.

[Marco]

I've owned probably two dozen Chord Company cables. Every one broke; some more than once. Sonic link, DNM, Atlas and a number of others all broke too.

NVA interconnects aside, what on earth are all you ham-fisted daftees doing with your cables to break them continually - swinging with them from the rafters?? :D :scratch:

I can say, in all honesty, that in 25+ years of using 100s of different types and makes of audio cables, less than a handful have broken. Something ain't right, folks. It's the same with the daftees who continually snap the cantilevers off of their cartridges. Sorry, guys, but mostly this is just sheer carelessness.

Marco.

[Andrew B]

Honestly, I just don't understand what went on with Chord Co and me. Sometimes I'd get them out after being stored and they'd just be broken from the off. Once I wired up a pre power set up with two CD players. After tearing my hair out to find out why one channel was off, I found the left channel on ALL THREE sets had broken. Suffice to say it was a WTF moment.

As an aside, I really don't like those new Profis. They look and feel about one third as nice as the old ones. Not worth the money now IMO.

[Figlet108]

Just needs to be something non conductive Jason. Never done anything like this myself, but perhaps something like this would do the job?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Polycraft-SG2000-500g-Fast-Cast-Polyurethane-Liquid-Plastic-Casting-Resin-Kit-/230927759631?pt=UK_Crafts_Other_Crafts_EH&hash=item35c45df90f

Thanks Ali.
Cheap enough to just do an experiment for myself with and without on two sets of SSP and see for myself if it really does make much of a difference.

Out of interest, and since we're back to talking about cable again, I did an experiment of building a triple-shielded SSP:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZyEdYOAxnIY/Uh0J7BczcfI/AAAAAAAACE4/A7vovaMhNI4/w1033-h689-no/IMG_7362_resize.JPG

Obviously the shielded one is on the left...
All the shielding and shrink-wrap makes for a very robust cable and eliminates EMI and RFI to boot. Just a bit of a PITA to build... (well for me anyway - I'm sure a pro would have no problems)

[WOStantonCS100]

I find it sad that addressing generally accepted practices for doing "simple" electrical work would meet with such resistance. :( I mean, yeah, we love the sound of things; but, at least, I would think, for a builder, how something sounds would always be tempered with practicality of implementation. I guess it doesn't matter to the manufacturer who'll be glad to just keep charging you to fix it and the end user who doesn't mind paying. I myself have made and use a few solid core conductor ICs; but, I don't kid myself about their lower bend-cycles. They are also painstakingly terminated. But, whatever...

[stupinder]

http://i342.photobucket.com/albums/o433/Stupinder/index_zps9aefcf3f.jpg (http://s342.photobucket.com/user/Stupinder/media/index_zps9aefcf3f.jpg.html)

[AlanS]

I have never broken an IC, that includes SSP.

Those who have........

[Ninanina]

Ok I will say it like it is:::: :):):)

I love the sound quality of both the SSP's and the lesser SP's...... BUT I have had breakages on BOTH cables

Don't get me wrong they sound superb but I have got rid of both because of breakages....they are VERY delicate in my opinion and I look after my gear VERY carefully...

I believe that the NVA Sound Cord's are much more flexible and don't break in the same way as SP's or SSP's

I have a friend, who I gave a set of SSP's as a Chirstmas present, and he is also having problems with them, and is going to replace them with something a bit more solid in construction

If you want a good cable that won't break then I'd recommend Mark Grants IC's

[Andrew B]

I think it also depends on how often you chop and change. My setup has changed regularly for years, so I'm always plugging, n plugging and moving stuff. I also undo everything to dust, so that's a lot of usage. I try to use locking phonos now because that minimises the problem. There is a lot of variability in tightness of plugs and indeed the relative size of sockets. Then you have to deal with poorly constructed separates where the phono sockets flex on a poorly secured PCB if you apply any pressure. RCAs in general seem a poor choice to me.

[Figlet108]

...It's just a pity that people not only feel the need to try and put others off great value (and bloody good) products, but they also deprive themselves of them too, all because they don't like the maker...

Thing is Andrew, that's just not true and not at all what's going on here.

There's at least 3 people contributing to this thread that have fallen out with RD and are on the Black List and have had VERY NASTY THINGS SAID ABOUT THEM PUBLICLY, and yet they have ALL repeatedly said that the products sound good and are good value. They also all still own NVA gear and in some cases own a lot of NVA gear. No one is trying to put anyone off. I am genuinely blown away by the negative forces that have turned a perfectly reasonable set pros and cons for a product from real users' experiences into the abomination that this has turned into.

Instead, let me give you a real example of people cutting off their nose to spite their face: after falling out with RD and despite everything, I said publicly that I would still support his TFS. However, even though we all know how much he liked it, with plenty of public statements in plenty of threads, he still sold it. And he made a big public spectacle of it too along with plenty of insults and abuse.
And what really takes the biscuit Andrew is that not a few short months before he (and the rest of his Hate Mafia) RIPPED BEV APART FOR DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

Breathtaking hypocrisy...

[Marco]

As an aside, I really don't like those new Profis. They look and feel about one third as nice as the old ones. Not worth the money now IMO.

The Neutriks are ok, but given what I've heard, after experimenting extensively with different RCA plugs (which I agree with Barry are a heavily compromised design), for me the best of a bad bunch are (for digital applications), WBT NextGen-0110Ag, and (for analogue applications) Eichmann Silver Bullet plugs.

They're not cheap, but having tested them against other plugs (on the same cables), they do offer significant sonic improvements, and not simply because the conductors are pure silver. One of the most important aspects I've discovered of good plug design (for audio purposes) is not to use ferrous [magnetic] metals (and/or the least amount of metal anywhere) in their construction, other than in the conductor itself.

It's no coincidence that the continually worst 'sounding' plugs I discovered were the heaviest ones, simply because they contained the most metal!

Marco.

[Ninanina]

Be VERY careful with what some NVA supporters are/have said... one of these people has apparently been giving me a hard time on HFS, along the line of attaching me to a "Witches broom stick" , a very sad person indeed... I will let you decide who that may be... how sad can you get a ??:mental:

I've said all I will say on the subject of NVA interconnects...it is true and a honest opinion of how I have found them :)

[Ninanina]

RIPPED BEV APART FOR DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

My point EXACTLY....

[icehockeyboy]

Shall I add my full experience of the Sound Pipes I bought, and the surrounding circumstances ....? Oh go on then.

I was caught up in the then hype about how great these cables were,,and having recently bought some Sound Cords. I thought I'd have a punt.

In all honesty I struggled to hear an improvement, and mentioned this on an another hi fi forum, which is when I had the Pm from RD, throwing four letter words at me like they were going out of fashion.

I had by then sold them on to another forum member, who was also disappointed at how they sounded, this I passed on to RD, who said they must be broken, and he actually asked me to get the new owner to send them back for repair, which he did.

He claimed that he had repaired them, and sent them back to their new owner, who in fact said he could hear no improvement at all, and in the meantime RD laid into me via PM about how I obviously had defective hearing, and how dare I post my ( honest) findings on a forum when I obviously didn't have a clue about Hifi.

I'm not just jumping on the " kick RD " bandwagon, just telling my story about my experience with NVA.

PS, just had a peep at their forum, boy oh boy, they don't like us there do they!

PPS, note I'm still using my Sound Cords! (Again)

[Ninanina]

Shall I add my full experience of the Sound Pipes I bought, and the surrounding circumstances ....? Oh go on then.

I was caught up in the then hype about how great these cables were,,and having recently bought some Sound Cords. I thought I'd have a punt.

In all honesty I struggled to hear an improvement, and mentioned this on an another hi fi forum, which is when I had the Pm from RD, throwing four letter words at me like they were going out of fashion.

I had by then sold them on to another forum member, who was also disappointed at how they sounded, this I passed on to RD, who said they must be broken, and he actually asked me to get the new owner to send them back for repair, which he did.

He claimed that he had repaired them, and sent them back to their new owner, who in fact said he could hear no improvement at all, and in the meantime RD laid into me via PM about how I obviously had defective hearing, and how dare I post my ( honest) findings on a forum when I obviously didn't have a clue about Hifi.

I'm not just jumping on the " kick RD " bandwagon, just telling my story about my experience with NVA.

PS, just had a peep at their forum, boy oh boy, they don't like us there do they!

Craig that sounds just about right for RD.... I didn't want to comment on this issue but now I have I may as well continue...:):)

RD just makes enemies all over the place if you DARE to comment on his gear, be it his amplifiers or his cables... He is just a sad little old man and cannot stand ANYONE stating that they do not like, or can fault his gear...... Just have NOTHING to do with him, like I do now, it's the best way... believe me!!!

Quite a sad little man who is best left well alone ...... !! :mental::mental:

[Andrew B]

Thing is Andrew, that's just not true and not at all what's going on here.

There's at least 3 people contributing to this thread that have fallen out with RD and are on the Black List and have had VERY NASTY THINGS SAID ABOUT THEM PUBLICLY, and yet they have ALL repeatedly said that the products sound good and are good value. They also all still own NVA gear and in some cases own a lot of NVA gear. No one is trying to put anyone off. I am genuinely blown away by the negative forces that have turned a perfectly reasonable set pros and cons for a product from real users' experiences into the abomination that this has turned into.

Instead, let me give you a real example of people cutting off their nose to spite their face: after falling out with RD and despite everything, I said publicly that I would still support his TFS. However, even though we all know how much he liked it, with plenty of public statements in plenty of threads, he still sold it. And he made a big public spectacle of it too along with plenty of insults and abuse.
And what really takes the biscuit Andrew is that not a few short months before he (and the rest of his Hate Mafia) RIPPED BEV APART FOR DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

Breathtaking hypocrisy...

Hi Jason. Despite saying my comments aren't true, I think you actually seem to agree with me in your references to the thread becoming an abomination.

As far as I know, you still use NVA gear extensively but some here wouldn't use his products however good they sounded and have said so. I just can't see the logic in that. I recognise the fact that you have praised the sound and in that you've been consistent.

One thing that did still puzzle me though (and this might be my memory, so please correct me if I'm wrong) but didn't you say that using Profi plugs as standard would have solved any breakage issues on SSP? It was around the time of the issues on HFS and I honestly can't remember if it was before or after (and I've not looked for it).

I thought you'd pushed for it to be done this way just before leaving. Like I said, my memory isn't 100 percent.

[walpurgis]

PS, just had a peep at their forum, boy oh boy, they don't like us there do they!

I don't bother visiting 'the other place', sounds like it might be a good idea if others considered doing the same.

Presumably their members are watching this site closely and reporting back, all a bit daft really.

[Marco]

Instead, let me give you a real example of people cutting off their nose to spite their face: after falling out with RD and despite everything, I said publicly that I would still support his TFS. However, even though we all know how much he liked it, with plenty of public statements in plenty of threads, he still sold it. And he made a big public spectacle of it too along with plenty of insults and abuse.

And what really takes the biscuit Andrew is that not a few short months before he (and the rest of his Hate Mafia) RIPPED BEV APART FOR DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

Breathtaking hypocrisy...

<Slam dunk>

Do you think that they (RD and his cronies) won't accept this because they're blinkered, deluded or just plain dumb (or a mixture of all three)??

No need to answer. It's a rhetorical question ;)

Marco.

[selby]

I'm not a cronie of RD, I do use HFS, AOS, PFM and Wigwam from time to time.

At times I've found each to have it's strengths and weaknesses, I'm never going to be a 1k+ forum poster or a moderator. I just find it so sad that adults including myself are reading this dross and that some people make it personal...bringing family into things isn't on.

Ladies and gents this is a forum so how about some etiquette and we bring it back to a place for friendly and useful discussion.

I found these points on a forum recently, might be worth reading...


No 'flaming' - in other words, avoid personal attacks, pettiness, abuse. Respect other users, and if you disagree with them, explain why.
No 'trolling' - trolls are posts deliberately designed to provoke an angry response. That doesn't mean you can't be controversial, if you really mean it.
No personal disputes - if it gets personal, take it offline.
Don't be patronising or sarcastic. It comes across about ten times worse online.
Avoid typing in ALL CAPS, which is considered shouting or yelling.
Learn to let go - don't keep harping on about the same thing, or harking back to previous arguments. It is rarely productive, and you always end up going round in circles.
If someone else's post offends you, don't fight back online. It can be easy to sound rude without meaning to, especially if English is not your native language. However, if you really are troubled by the post, don't respond - take it to your lecturer instead.
Post in the most appropriate forum (and only in one forum).
Stay on topic - try to focus on the original topic. In particular, don't change subject in the middle of an existing thread - just start a new topic.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I think this thread is way past it's best use. We're a long way from Martin's first post since it was re-opened today.

[Marco]

I agree. However, I'd like to say how Jason has handled himself (and the difficult situation he's in) admirably, and I'd like to thank him for that :)

Ok, I fancy an early night, so has anyone else got something worthwhile to say on this subject before I get the keys out and do the necessary?

Marco.

[BTH K10A]

I don't bother visiting 'the other place', sounds like it might be a good idea if others considered doing the same.

Presumably their members are watching this site closely and reporting back, all a bit daft really.

More than watching, quite a few are participating.

There seem to be double standards here when people cry foul at a picture posted of a broken cable by a certain maker and yet make the same claim about their experience with another manufacturers cables, without providing any evidence. :confused:

[Figlet108]

Hi Jason. Despite saying my comments aren't true, I think you actually seem to agree with me in your references to the thread becoming an abomination.

Andrew, your comments that I disagree with are the ones I quoted. That this thread is an abomination is beyond any decent person's doubt, and my point in that post has since been nicely amplified by Craig's story. The negative forces that I refer to as having turned this thread abominable are the same forces that can't abide the slightest criticism of NVA products that Craig refers to. And the stories starting to come out of the woodwork now also reflect abominable behaviour - regardless of how typical or common it is. That it happens just once is inexcusable and indefensible.



As far as I know, you still use NVA gear extensively but some here wouldn't use his products however good they sounded and have said so. I just can't see the logic in that. I recognise the fact that you have praised the sound and in that you've been consistent.

Well, ask your pal RD, since he's done similar he may be able to shed some light - although I suspect the word hate features in the explanation.



One thing that did still puzzle me though (and this might be my memory, so please correct me if I'm wrong) but didn't you say that using Profi plugs as standard would have solved any breakage issues on SSP? It was around the time of the issues on HFS and I honestly can't remember if it was before or after (and I've not looked for it).
I thought you'd pushed for it to be done this way just before leaving. Like I said, my memory isn't 100 percent.
No, I'm pretty sure I did say something like that. My view from first owning SSP and before ever meeting RD was that the connector used and the method of construction was not fit for purpose for such a stiff cable. I think the post you are thinking of was when I posted a picture of the connectors used by Blue Jean Cable and saying that it wasn't rocket science and why not use a connector like theirs because it twists freely separate from the cable and thus would prevent a user from twisting and breaking the cable. Anyway, it'll be there on the forum if you look for it (unless all my posts have been deleted which is also possible)

[Ninanina]

Come on Andrew OWN UP TO WHAT YOU REALLY ARE...... an NVA Supporter a little RD licker.... lick lick....:) you have TRIED to apologise to me on your PM's BUT it just hasn't worked i'm afraid ..... :D:D

I know all about your antics on the OTHER FORUM.... so own up NOW.... you are just one of RD's "little men" .... so sad really Andrew.... You know EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAVE SAID ABOUT ME OVER ON HFS..... but YOU DARE NOT OWN UP TO IT on the AoS forum..... you sad little man !!!

:D:D:D:D

[Figlet108]

Marco, I strongly suggest that this thread is now closed, otherwise I might start talking about Applemarc's TDS.
It's time to move on.

[Ninanina]

I agree Figlet

Otherwise it will show AoS peeps for what they are ...sad little monkeys... AB and others

Best


Bev xx

[Andrew B]

Bev, I think I posted one comment followed by that smiley. It was followed by a line saying "no offence intended". You took offence and I apologised. You asked me not to say anything about your PM and I didn't.

I've never met RD. The last time I spoke to him was by phone in 1992 I think. Between 1992 and 2012 I've owned used amps 3 times and only once emailed him about recapping which he helped with info for. Recently I got back into NVA kit and am pleased with the results.

What about your motives here

Remember the thread where you were quoted as saying that you wanted to hit RD where it hurts? I think that was your sale of SP

[Ninanina]

Bev, I think I posted one comment followed by that smiley. It was followed by a line saying "no offence intended". You took offence and I apologised. You asked me not to say anything about your PM and I didn't.

I've never met RD. The last time I spoke to him was by phone in 1992 I think. Between 1992 and 2012 I've owned used amps 3 times and only once emailed him about recapping which he helped with info for. Recently I got back into NVA kit and am pleased with the results.

What about your motives here

Remember the thread where you were quoted as saying that you wanted to hit RD where it hurts? I think that was your sale of SP

And your "witches broomstick"??????? what was that all about???

You are just an RD licker.... Like I already said..... Let no one believe a thing you say.... Your PM to me was just 'back-peddling' to try to get yourself out of a little hole.... You are just as sad as RD himself...... Go on pass that onto the RD cretin .... you sad little man...!!!

[Marco]

Latest from the 'master artisan':


"I never want to have any further contact with Jason in any shape or form. A lot of the circumstances have not been made public, but I for one would not allow him to stay in my presence and my wife would go in the kitchen get a knife and happily cut his throat and accept the consequences she hates him so much for what he has done to our life."


:eek: :eek: :uhho: :mental: :mental:

Is it just me or does Richard seem a little agitated? I guess that handing back Jason's £10k had a profound effect on any scheduled house upgrading, chez-Dunn! ;)

Marco.

P.S the above doesn't sound like the Jason I know.

[Andrew B]

That was the smiley I referred to. It's one of the ones on there. Check the post if you like. I did say no offence intended straight after it. It obviously really upset you so I apologised.

[Sovereign]

So what difference did all the shielding make?


Thanks Ali.
Cheap enough to just do an experiment for myself with and without on two sets of SSP and see for myself if it really does make much of a difference.

Out of interest, and since we're back to talking about cable again, I did an experiment of building a triple-shielded SSP:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZyEdYOAxnIY/Uh0J7BczcfI/AAAAAAAACE4/A7vovaMhNI4/w1033-h689-no/IMG_7362_resize.JPG

Obviously the shielded one is on the left...
All the shielding and shrink-wrap makes for a very robust cable and eliminates EMI and RFI to boot. Just a bit of a PITA to build... (well for me anyway - I'm sure a pro would have no problems)

[Ninanina]

Your apology is NOT accepted AB... You are just nasty Andrew... You should NOT HAVE made the comments you made about me on HFS....BUT YOU DID... that just proves the sort of person you are .... OK... And any form of back-peddling by you is NOT accepted OK...:D:D

[Figlet108]

Is it just me or does Mr Dunn seem a little agitated?

Bullies don't like to be confronted...

[Ninanina]

Exactly Fidget

All RD's 'little men' are all the same

I've known these 'little men' in my work life, and I have no requirement to associate with them in my private life... they are all 'sad little monkeys' :D:D

[Andrew B]

I also explained at some length why I was critical of you. If you don't want to accept an apology for upsetting you, that is your choice. As I said, it wouldn't stop me being critical of you or anyone else in future. I don't hide my identity on both forums so people are free to read, comment and think what they like.

[Figlet108]

So what difference did all the shielding make?
James, in my particular case it made a big difference because unfortunately I have a noisy environment regarding EMI/RFI.
For example, after I made just one cable I plugged the shielded one on one side and a stock SSP on the other channel.

I then created the noisiest environment I could by turning on the plasma and the dimmer lights etc and turning up the volume to full (without music).
The difference between the hissing on the stock SSP side compared to the shielded side was *massive*. And at normal, even loud listening levels there was no audible hiss on the shielded side at all compared to noticable hiss on the stock side.

The shielded set had the effect *in my system* to reduce the noise floor and make a nice improvement to the overall sound.
As I said they were a pain to build, to the point that I plan to do all my SSPs the same and haven't bothered yet!

[Marco]

Bullies don't like to be confronted...

Indeed. So why does Mrs D want to get jiggy with your throat, apart from you scuppering her plans (and his) to move to a 'posher' house?

Marco.

[Ninanina]

Hopefully everyone will now see you for what you really are AB.... AN RD LICKER...

What you did to me was utterly unexcusable, PERIOD... OK!!!

And NO I DON'T accept your weak apology.... just NASTY...

[Sovereign]

Thing is Andrew, that's just not true and not at all what's going on here.


And what really takes the biscuit Andrew is that not a few short months before he (and the rest of his Hate Mafia) RIPPED BEV APART FOR DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

Breathtaking hypocrisy...

I have to agree with you here Jason. I probably know Bev the most on this forum and I can honestly say what she had to go through was just disgraceful, RD and his few blind supporters were like savage dogs, I saw this happen to others but not quite to such an extent. I just couldn't be a part of it anymore.
The problem is RD's few supporters will never know the lies, deception and manipulation that has gone on in the background, they just take everything they are fed at face value which is such a shame.

[loo]

Is it midnight yet I'm beginning to see
NVA Interconnects
every time I close my eyes:mental:

[Sovereign]

Marco, I strongly suggest that this thread is now closed, otherwise I might start talking about Applemarc's TDS.
It's time to move on.

What about Applemarcs TDS???

[Joe]

Stay on topic - try to focus on the original topic. In particular, don't change subject in the middle of an existing thread - just start a new topic.


So, what do we think about badger-culling?

[walpurgis]

Hmm. Still many people calling foul. Ref, blow the whistle and end the game!

[Ninanina]

So, what do we think about badger-culling?

Well I'm against badger culling.... I love ALL animals too much to do that. !!

[Marco]

Jason, you have 14 mins to put your side of the story before the thread is locked, particularly considering what RD is accusing you of now:


"we had a house sale set up that had to be aborted because of the games this man played. Women don't take kindly to their new house purchase being ferked up deliberately - yes deliberately. He knew where the £10k was and he knew the trouble he was creating.

On top of this he timed his demand for the money and the hi=jacking / hacking of the forum and my computer at a point where I was at my most vulnerable which he knew all about. My emails were blocked and interfered with and read by him when I was waiting for important information. I was waiting for test results as to if I only had months or maybe a year to live as opposed many years. Quite deliberately done with about 10 emails and threat per day, and I even pleaded with him by email to leave me alone at least until the test results were in. No HE EXPLOITED THE SITUATION. You really need to speak to Nadia about this she is convinced it was all deliberate and the only reason the money was in was so he could get the company off Nadia if I was going to pop my clogs - the man is a sick evil bastard - full stop - and now he has you conned as well.

Anyway I am clear and hopefully have many years to live sadly for some."


I would just like to say, much as we have our differences, I'm glad that Richard got the all clear. Despite not liking the man, I'd certainly never wish him dead (or indeed any harm). Shit like that puts the sort of bollocks being argued here into perspective. It's just a pity, however, that Richard hasn't used the experience to reassess his life and try to be nicer to people in future.... Life's too short, man!

Marco.

[Figlet108]

What about Applemarcs TDS???

It's RD's deception, it's up to him to come clean about it.
If Applemarc asks me I'll tell him what I know.

[loo]

So, what do we think about badger-culling?

Why? can anyone have a go or do you need a licence

[Joe]

Why? can anyone have a go or do you need a licence

I think it's open season, you just need a torch, a spade and a 12-bore shotgun.

[Ninanina]

NOOOOOOOOOO leave the little badgers alone.... they are so sweet... :):)

[Figlet108]

Well, it's simply that I paid RD £10k for 10% of NVA.
After 9 months I still had received no paperwork, no share agreement absolutely nothing that connected me with NVA.
During those 9 months I had learnt the kind of man he was and how he conducted his business and didn't want to be part of it. In addition my father has heart problems and needed/needs money for hospital bills (in Greece). Since I had not been issued any paperwork and there was no formal agreement between us, I asked to end the relationship and for my money back.

I was told I couldn't have it as RD wanted to move house and needed it for that and that we would call the £10k a loan and I might get it back in a couple of years! I shit you not folks, I still have the emails, as does Terry and Linsayt who I CCed to have witnesses.

That's when things got nasty.

If I have time I'll carry on in the next post.

[Barry]

Honestly, I just don't understand what went on with Chord Co and me. Sometimes I'd get them out after being stored and they'd just be broken from the off. Once I wired up a pre power set up with two CD players. After tearing my hair out to find out why one channel was off, I found the left channel on ALL THREE sets had broken. Suffice to say it was a WTF moment.

As an aside, I really don't like those new Profis. They look and feel about one third as nice as the old ones. Not worth the money now IMO.

Agree with you about the appearence, but the shield is easier to solder than the all-black originals. ProFis are still the best RCA phonos IMHO.

[Marco]

Ok folks, the party's over!

Thanks for all your contributions. My apologies again go to the OP for the thread crapping, but perhaps he'll have gleaned something useful from the experience, which he hadn't originally considered. What I can promise him (and everyone else) is that nothing like this will happen again on an NVA-related hi-fi thread on AoS.

Marco.