Make my own cables

[selby]

I'd like to make my own interconnect cables...

Looking for suggestions on cables and connectors. Interested in difference between copper and silver wire, up-occ and where to get the best plugs.

Also is solder still the best method?

[The Grand Wazoo]

Make sure you can solder neatly and efficiently and be meticulous about cleanliness. Having those things sorted out will make as much difference as any change of cable or connector.

[walpurgis]

Van Damme cable is always decent. I use it a lot for interconnects and the prices are very reasonable.

For about £15 you can make a cable that a 'brand' maker would charge you £100 for!

[istari_knight]

Van Damme cable is always decent. I use it a lot for interconnects and the prices are very reasonable.

For about £15 you can make a cable that a 'brand' maker would charge you £100 for!

When I made some phono cables [I assume you want to make some phono's ?] I used "268-500-000 Twin Interconnect" with Neutrik "Pro-Fi" plugs but the cheaper REAN branded ones are also nicely made.

Some people like to use silver solder... Personally I cant see the point when the jacks on the equipment use bog standard ROHS lead free...

http://www.van-damme.com/25.html
http://www.rean-connectors.com/en/products/phono/phono-plugs/nys373
http://www.neutrik.com/en/phono-rca/profi-cable-connectors/

If you dont own one I would invest in a "third hand" - Makes life so much easier when soldering cables !

http://www.micromark.com/RS/SR/Product/21120_R.jpg

[Sovereign]

Nice to have you here Selby

[Cotlake]

I'd like to make my own interconnect cables...

Building cables is how I got introduced to DIY Hi-Fi. I completely recommend it as a way forward.


Looking for suggestions on cables and connectors. Interested in difference between copper and silver wire, up-occ and where to get the best plugs.

All the above suggestions are good. I have spent a massive amount of time searching and building different interconnects, most of which have been giant killers compared to commercial fair. If you want phono stage wire from tone arm to phono stage, use Van Damm microphone cable. Thereafter, for all other applications, I personally have settled with IPL Accoustic IC2.

http://www.iplacoustics.co.uk/ipl_cables.htm

I use this for all my main interconnects which when reasonable I hard wire into the component such as the Pre amp, thus reducing the need for an additional connector. Wire it pseudo balanced being source and ground wired at both ends but the shield only connected at the source end to ground. IE, shield and ground connected together at the CD player end but the sheild braid not connected and floating at the amp end.

Don't get hung up on plugs and connectors. Most any commercial plated ones will do. If you want to be pedantic, silver connectors are best because even silver oxide conducts better than gold or copper. Actually it is no big deal and anything from Maplins and the like will do. There is far too much 'snake oil' around on this subject. Personally I like basic Eichmanns, but I acknowledge cable anchoring is not good. Then again, if you are serious about DIY cables, you'll need to buy a selection of 'heat shrink' tubing to tidy your terminations which helps to accommodate the poor Eichmann option.


Also is solder still the best method?

Solder or crimping is a matter for you. Personally I prefer solder because good quality solder is an excellent conductor and ensures a strong physical bond between the components being connected.

There is much more that could be said here. We could also get into DIY speaker cables which is a favourite of mine. From my personal perspective, I am a total sceptic regarding almost any commercially made connection cable. IMHO It is the biggest rip off area within the Hi-Fi industry. I'll never buy a commercially produced cable again. Home made, using the right products is cheaper and considerably far better in performance per se.

Come back to me if you want to know more.

[maz]

I've been considering this myself for when I get my new amp and dac. At the moment I've been reading up on home made cables using cat5 networking cable (got half a drum laying around).

Might be worth a look?

[Cotlake]

I have used CAT5 for speaker cables now for several years. It completely satisfies me and I don't feel the need to experiment with anything else. When compared to commercial products, some of which were in the more than £1000 price bracket, the CAT5 came out on top.

[Figlet108]

Hi James, I can highly recommend making your own cables, it's a lot of fun actually and quite interesting when you get into.

Early on I came across this page that I found very interesting: design notes from BJC low capacitance cable (http://www.bluejeanscable.co.uk/store/audio/LC1-design-notes.htm)
I bought some of their cable based on that write up just to taste it and take it to pieces to play with it. When I compared it with stock NVA SSP there was very little difference in sound (and I'm pretty sure its capacitance is lower than SSP)
However I then took my SSP cable (which has no shielding) and shielded the crap out of it with multiple layers of high density tinned copper braiding and foil (braiding is good at rejecting EMI and foils combats the RFI) and it was noticeably better than the BJC. The shielding also made a HUGE difference to the hissing I used to get from being in a very EMI/RFI noisy environment (and that's before turning on the Plasma tv and the RF light dimmer!)
So lesson learnt: shielding is important.

Interestingly, just looking again at the BJC website there's a very interesting article on ultrasonic welding as an alternative to solder or crimp: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/ultrasonic-welding.htm

I'm sure those ultrasonic welding machines are only a few quid on ebay ;)

[Andrei]

James
I am in agreement with the other posters. I would add this:
The single most important factor in a cable is the quality of the wire. What makes for good quality is primarily that it is annealed - some use the words, 'soft' or 'tempered'. There are YouTube clips on annealing if you have to do it. Incidentally I heard that Kondo anneal their cables by simply leaving to lie for 20 (!) years. Purity of the wire is also a factor. So start off on a good foundation and get good quality wire. (Something like this looks interesting: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AWG28-0-3MM-Solid-Core-UPOCC-SILVER-Audio-BARE-WIRE-20M-/281154396283?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item41761ba07b )

Silver is better than copper. First, it is a better conductor than copper. Second, while both oxidise, Silver oxide is conductive while copper oxide is not. It may not be as simple as that, as other factors come into play eg price, and maybe copper is easier to work with. I have four times replaced a copper audio wire with silver and three times it has been an audible improvement, once I could not tell the difference.

Good luck and let us know how you get on. And pics :)

[Barry]

http://www.iplacoustics.co.uk/ipl_cables.htm

I use this for all my main interconnects which when reasonable I hard wire into the component such as the Pre amp, thus reducing the need for an additional connector. Wire it pseudo balanced being source and ground wired at both ends but the shield only connected at the source end to ground. IE, shield and ground connected together at the CD player end but the shieldd braid not connected and floating at the amp end. In a pseudo-balanced arrangement, the shield should be connected to the signal return at the point of lowest potential. This means the point electrically closest to the mains earth, i.e. the metal case work. If the source (such as the CD player in your example) is double insulated, that is, uses a two-core mains lead, then the shield return junction will not be at the lowest electrical potential and the lead will have to be reversed. IMHO pseudo-balanced wiring confers no advantage over conventional unbalanced coaxial interconnects, nor is it as good as fully balanced arrangements.

Don't get hung up on plugs and connectors. Most any commercial plated ones will do. If you want to be pedantic, silver connectors are best because even silver oxide conducts better than gold or copper. No it doesn't - the most likely tarnish on silver will be silver sulphide Ag2S, also a very poor conductor, but both silver oxide and silver sulphide are soft, so the action of mating connectors easily scrapes through the tarnish layer to make contact with the silver.



Solder or crimping is a matter for you. Personally I prefer solder because good quality solder is an excellent conductor and ensures a strong physical bond between the components being connected.

From my personal perspective, I am a total sceptic regarding almost any commercially made connection cable. IMHO It is the biggest rip off area within the Hi-Fi industry. I'll never buy a commercially produced cable again. Home made, using the right products is cheaper and considerably far better in performance per se. Thoroughly agree with you here, though there are a few cable manufacturers who are not "rip off" artists.



Personally I think Eichmann plugs are the worse thing ever to have happened to the, already lousy, RCA 'phono' plug.

[Reffc]

From my personal perspective, I am a total sceptic regarding almost any commercially made connection cable. IMHO It is the biggest rip off area within the Hi-Fi industry. I'll never buy a commercially produced cable again. Home made, using the right products is cheaper and considerably far better in performance per se. Thoroughly agree with you here, though there are a few cable manufacturers who are not "rip off" artists.

There are indeed Barry ;). We shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush as that's not a very helpful generalisation, either in terms of the "rip off" angle or the assumption that performance is easily bettered. It depends on the design, specification and quality of the finished cables. It's a bit like saying "all cars are the same" when quite clearly they're not (well all bar having 4 wheels and an engine).

[Barry]

There are indeed Barry ;). We shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush as that's not a very helpful generalisation, either in terms of the "rip off" angle or the assumption that performance is easily bettered. It depends on the design, specification and quality of the finished cables. It's a bit like saying "all cars are the same" when quite clearly they're not (well all bar having 4 wheels and an engine).


Paul

Just to be clear, my comment in red was made in response to the last sentence of Greg's post.

Wherever possible I prefer to assemble my own cables, as that way I have full control over the choice of cable and connectors, as well as the quality and neatness of the soldering (and of the solder itself). Clearly there are those who either cannot, or choose not to do so, so for them they have no other option than to buy ready made cables.

I didn't want to name names, but I think we all know who the "good guys" are.

Regards

[Reffc]

Paul

Just to be clear, my comment in red was made in response to the last sentence of Greg's post.

Wherever possible I prefer to assemble my own cables, as that way I have full control over the choice of cable and connectors, as well as the quality and neatness of the soldering (and of the solder itself). Clearly there are those who either cannot, or choose not to do so, so for them they have no other option than to buy ready made cables.

I didn't want to name names, but I think we all know who the "good guys" are.

Regards

Yes, I was just agreeing with your response to Greg's last sentence, hence "There are indeed..."

[Cotlake]

Hello Barry,

I have considered your response and further consulted with trusted audio electronic engineers. I acknowledge that theoretically you are right regarding the connection of a braided shield at the ground end of lowest potential. Using a CDP as my example was probably a poor choice, but actually, in reality it probably won't make a blind bit of difference in practice and sonically as well.

A fully balance connection option might well be the favourite choice but the reality is most kit is not built with this option so the use of RCA connections rather controls what people have to do when making their own cables unless they want to do a far more serious conversion which as you know will involve a lot more than changing connection plugs and sockets.

Thanks for the correction on silver oxide which should have been silver sulphide. As you say, it's soft and the tension of the connectors will cut through it. I got the theory wrong, but as you suggest, in practice all will be fine.

i don't retract my statement about cables being the biggest area of rip off within the Hi-Fi Industry. They are. Certainly my statement is a generalisation (not an exclusive statement) because, generally, that is the case. I acknowledge there are a few manufacturers of cables that operate a value for money market, but they are few and far between. Most exploit the average punters concept that cables make a big and important difference and the 'Snake Oil' influence feeds their expectations on this. In contrast, I have found that if you get your main components right in your system, the cables used can become almost (not exclusively) insignificant. No doubt that is why many DIYer's are happy to connect their speakers with 'twin and earth'.

Regarding Reffc's comments, well, he's in the trade. He would say that, wouldn't he!

Greg

[walpurgis]

I acknowledge that theoretically you are right regarding the connection of a braided shield at the ground end of lowest potential.

I have found that if you get your main components right in your system, the cables used can become almost (not exclusively) insignificant.

There's as much opinion about which direction a screen/shield should be terminated as there is about cable directionality, basically nobody has any real conclusions. To my ears it makes no difference.

If the beneficial effects of using decent cables cannot be heard then perhaps the system is not good enough. I've found that the better the equipment, the easier it is to hear cable differences.

[Barry]

Hello Barry,

I have considered your response and further consulted with trusted audio electronic engineers. I acknowledge that theoretically you are right regarding the connection of a braided shield at the ground end of lowest potential. Using a CDP as my example was probably a poor choice, but actually, in reality it probably won't make a blind bit of difference in practice and sonically as well.

A fully balance connection option might well be the favourite choice but the reality is most kit is not built with this option so the use of RCA connections rather controls what people have to do when making their own cables unless they want to do a far more serious conversion which as you know will involve a lot more than changing connection plugs and sockets.

Thanks for the correction on silver oxide which should have been silver sulphide. As you say, it's soft and the tension of the connectors will cut through it. I got the theory wrong, but as you suggest, in practice all will be fine.

I don't retract my statement about cables being the biggest area of rip off within the Hi-Fi Industry. They are. Certainly my statement is a generalisation (not an exclusive statement) because, generally, that is the case. I acknowledge there are a few manufacturers of cables that operate a value for money market, but they are few and far between. Most exploit the average punters concept that cables make a big and important difference and the 'Snake Oil' influence feeds their expectations on this. In contrast, I have found that if you get your main components right in your system, the cables used can become almost (not exclusively) insignificant. No doubt that is why many DIYer's are happy to connect their speakers with 'twin and earth'.

Regarding Reffc's comments, well, he's in the trade. He would say that, wouldn't he!

Greg

No probs Greg!

I agree with you that if you are prepared to make your own interconnects, using good quality cable and connectors, what you achieve will be as good as any pre-assembled interconnect available from an interconnect supplier.

IMHO, the "semi-balanced" approach offer NO advantages over a pure coaxial construction. And if your system allows it, a pure balanced interconnect is preferable.

Yes, there are an awful lot of "snake oil" merchants out there, but there are also some genuine vendors who offer good quality interconnects at a reasonable price. I'm not going to name names, but I think you know who they are (you have already cited one such).

Regards