Turntable Mat [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

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Andrei

12-08-2013, 05:06

synsei

12-08-2013, 05:57

Try to listen to a few for yourself Andrei before going on recommendations as you are likely to get your fingers burnt. I caved in to hype and acquired an Acromat on spec and hated it. To my ears it makes everything sound artificial and soulless and it also robs the bottom end of any weight. I've returned to using a Herbies mat which at least allows the music flow in a natural manner. You may find the complete opposite of course ;)

Andrei

12-08-2013, 06:29

Synsei
Ta for that. Despite a university education I find it practically impossible not to be influenced by the hype, hence my plea to the forum. I am not expecting a Lazarus experience or a visit to the Queen after getting a mat. I already have an Origin Live mat on TT number 1 and I like it but the improvement is very small. That is ok ... it is just a MAT. I am hoping for a small improvement, and am wondering if I can improve on it.

Andrei

MikeMusic

12-08-2013, 07:06

My shortlist is:
Upgrade Platter Mat - Origin Live
Acromat - Funk Firm

Any other suggestions?

As usual for me, please leave price out of the equation; if I can't afford it I will wait till I can.

TIA, Andrei
I have an Achromat which I think is great.
However I have been persuaded to check out an Oyaide which is on it's way
Will post results when I have it to compare

Clive197

12-08-2013, 09:04

My shortlist is:
Upgrade Platter Mat - Origin Live
Acromat - Funk Firm

Any other suggestions?

As usual for me, please leave price out of the equation; if I can't afford it I will wait till I can.

TIA, Andrei

I bought a Achromat after recommendations from this forum, hated it (at first) then brought some Isonoe feet and boots, retried the mat and......WOW, completely changed for the better over my Inspire Acri mat. Proves that no one mat is suitable for every TT, you need to try before you buy, recommendations only work from others if they have exactly the same set-up as you do.

SquireC

12-08-2013, 10:19

I can highly recommend the Ringmat Real Ale mat. Works superbly on the Linn, IMHO, and I think they do a refund if you don't like it scheme.
:)

Andrei

13-08-2013, 01:34

However I have been persuaded to check out an Oyaide which is on it's way
Will post results when I have it to compare

Mike
I will be very interested in your view of the Oyaide mat. It seems that it is very slightly curved so as to somehow work with a heavier clamp. Is it intended that the record sit on the bare metal?
Andrei

MikeMusic

13-08-2013, 07:10

Mike
I will be very interested in your view of the Oyaide mat. It seems that it is very slightly curved so as to somehow work with a heavier clamp. Is it intended that the record sit on the bare metal?
Andrei
Seems like bare metal
If Parcelfarce get it together then I find out today !
You won't though as I can't connect to AoS at home, so tomorrow if you are good
:)

Stratmangler

13-08-2013, 07:13

What's the TT?

MikeMusic

13-08-2013, 07:47

What's the TT?
Technics 1210, MCRU Linear PSU, Mike New Bearing, Funk Firm platter, Jelco SA-750D arm, Ortofon SPU

Stratmangler

13-08-2013, 07:56

Technics 1210, MCRU Linear PSU, Mike New Bearing, Funk Firm platter, Jelco SA-750D arm, Ortofon SPU

Not yours, ye dafty - the OP's deck :lol:
Just spotted the OP's deck in his signature - missed it before :doh:

MikeMusic

13-08-2013, 08:25

Not yours, ye dafty - the OP's deck :lol:
Just spotted the OP's deck in his signature - missed it before :doh:

I have an LP12 too although I confess I may not use the mat on that
:)

Andrei

13-08-2013, 22:51

What's the TT?
It is not the Marantz! I have invested in a Technics SL1210 Mk5. In NZ we have species of Ebay called TradeMe and I got it for a song. It works perfectly but has zero mods. It is a bit of an odd purchase as I prefer my computer as a source and I already have a competent TT ... but ...

These things look so cool;
Marantz has a manual 33 to 45 changeover which is a total pain as half my LPs are at 45;
It seems that one can overcome its weakness with some judicious modding;
Also 'cause of the infectious enthusiasm of you AOS nutters.

Stratmangler

13-08-2013, 23:05

It is not the Marantz! I have invested in a Technics SL1210 Mk5.

You could do worse than an Achromat and Isonoe feet & boots then.
Move the PSU and mains transformer out into an external box too.

Oldpinkman

14-08-2013, 06:16

It should come as no shock to hear my suggestion of the Achromat given I am mates with Arthur. And in truth I don't know any of the other "brand" mats at first hand. I am familiar with hard rubber, soft rubber, felts, cork, and no mat. I am delighted Clive likes his achromat now, but not sure I share his conclusions ( the old DSJR juggle the faults to balance them approach. I acknowledge in practice things work out that way, but as I discussed with Arthur the other day - what sort of a design philosophy is it to design too much bass, to put with a too little bass component. I always look for every bit to be "right"

All mats (or lack of mats - I have an acrylic platter PT after all) do 2 things. They stop the record slipping round (hold it still) and they interface with the energy in the record caused by the stylus rubbing on a spinning groove, that isnt perfectly transduced into electricity.

Everything except polished glass and a very poor fit on the hole at the centre of the record works for holding the record still. I buggered about with tipex on a record and the PT platter 20 years ago when a dipstick journalist suggested otherwise. See my post 34 on "to puc or not to puc" - techipedia

So - what happens to the energy? You either want to absorb it, transmit it away and disperse it, or (if you believe it) leave it there to affect the cartridge and groove equally. The first key here is you want it to do that evenly across the frequency range, not well for the bass and badly for the treble - or you get a colouration. Assuming the goal is to get rid of it as best you can, the first requirement is a close impedance match. A substance which is like the vinyl of the record. The PT platter was such a thing - it makes the record effectively a very thick record. The PT then transmitted it away via a VERY finely toleranced bearing into an aerolam subchassis which dissipated it (somewhat). A thin acrylic mat will do the first bit, but not the second, unless on a turntable with a good bearing and suitable sub-chassis.

Achromat is also a close impedance match, but is full of bubbles which do some of the energy dispersal. You will like it if you like "clear" "imaging" "detail" "vocal presence" "delicate". If you like a boppy bass sound bung a felt mat on, and get the colouration it produces. As I am about to post on the PT set-up thread, the effect depends on the deck. In my case huge on LSD, big on SL1200 - fairly slight, but noticeable on PT. But don't kid yourself a mat is a small difference. Linn dined out on felt or rubber for years, and there was an extent to which the whole industry just copied Arthurs acrylic platter after the patent expired (systemdeck, Gyrodeck, plenty of others).

Hope that shines a light :)

prestonchipfryer

14-08-2013, 07:31

This is an interesting thread. My sl1200 has the MN bearing and a MN ETP platter. Having tried several mats: sounddead mat, achromat, cork mat, glass mat, Oyaide mat, Herbies mat and a felt mat I have found the best for my tt set-up is a felt mat.

I know some don't like felt mats, but experimentation is worthwhile to get the best sound for pound.

Conversely, using the standard Technics platter the Achromat was a very close second to the Oyaide. In addition using the standard Technics rubber mat on the standard platter was not very good, seemingly flattening the sound and robbing dynamics, to my ears. And on the MN ETP platter the standard rubber mat was, I thought, not so good, again a loss of dynamics.

Incidentally, the use of a record weight with the felt mat produces a slight improvement in the bass, but is not night and day, so I do not use a weight.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?16349-New-MN-Platter/page2&highlight=etp+platter

See above thread for some pics.

The Grand Wazoo

14-08-2013, 07:41

.....and there was an extent to which the whole industry just copied Arthurs acrylic platter after the patent expired (systemdeck, Gyrodeck, plenty of others).

I'm surprised at that. Yes, a lot of acrylic has been used in a lot of platters, but I think your examples are a bit awry - Systemdek's was glass was it not? And the Gyrodec platter is not simply acrylic, it is loaded with carbon, making it significantly different.

MikeMusic

14-08-2013, 07:50

First impressions as lots to do last night

Ry Cooder - Go home girl - from Bop til you drop
1. Achromat - fine
2. Achromat with Stillpoints record weight - more detail. I notice his vocal is double tracked for the first time, 'slower'
3. Oyaide with Stillpoints - more detail again, separation, air, even slower. The double tracked vocal is even more separated

SWMBO joins me. I switch to Ry Cooder - Nitty Gritty Mississippi from Crossroads
1. Achromat - vocals are mangled together, sounds messy. I've not heard that detail revealed before as some time since I played Crossroads (bad boy, must play more often !)
2. Achromat with Stillpoints record weight - vocals cleaner more separated, more detail
3. Oyaide with Stillpoints - you can hear the guys as separate people, more detail again, air, 'slower' again
The Oyaide seems to be able to extract more detail

First thing this morning I thought I would try
Jerry Goodman and Jan Hammer - Just like children
Oyaide with Stillpoints only, complete album
Superb. Never heard that amount of detail and separation before. Two class musicians

More tonight, but it looks like the Oyaide is a keeper.
VFM ?
I think the Achromat at £60 odd is superb value.
The Oyaide at £225 not so sure. Courtesy of Mark of this parish I was able to get a nice price
Stillpoints. At list price again I'm not so sure. For what I paid I think ok.
Have a listen if you can. I'm available for demos :)
Bear in mind that this is sitting on Mana reference tops, racks and soundbases, a Mike New Bearing, Funk Firm Platter with am SPU tracking at 4gms. The P10 and Ultimate mains cables may also play a part
Your house may be at risk if you do not keep up payments etc etc

Will I keep them ?
I think I will. Tonight should confirm
Interestingly I wanted to stay home today to play music shame I have to work.......

mimoser

14-08-2013, 14:29

what worked for me are
- a felt/rubber compound felt side up on my TT2 (Hörprobe Mat - no longer available)
- a felt/silicone combo felt below silicone on my LP12 (felt linn original, Analogue Audio Silicone (http://www.ebay.at/itm/Analogue-Works-Blue-Silicone-Rubber-Turntable-Gimp-Mat-/290864032163?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item43b8d8e9a3)
I did not try this one yet: SpotMat (http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=vinyl&n=92614) looks cheap and you might also try cork stoppers, as cork is wht ringmat systems use …
;-)
Michael

YNWaN

14-08-2013, 14:49

I've tried polished glass as a mat and the record doesn't slip on that either. In fact the record doesn't even slip on a DJ's 'slip mat' unless provoked.

Silicone was the worst material I tried giving a very slow and heavy sound with muted top end and blunted leading edges.

Clive197

14-08-2013, 15:02

I am delighted Clive likes his achromat now, but not sure I share his conclusions ( the old DSJR juggle the faults to balance them approach. I acknowledge in practice things work out that way, but as I discussed with Arthur the other day - what sort of a design philosophy is it to design too much bass, to put with a too little bass component. I always look for every bit to be "right"
:)

My conclusion was that the Achromat on the Technics, with my arm and cartridge just didn't sound right. Remember the mat (I believe) was originally designed for the LP12, it will sound different on alternative TT's. I resolved the issue by adding Isonoe feet, which cleaned up the sound much further but lacked bass, this was solved by using Isonoe boots which returned the bass cleanly. I believe it took both improvements (Mat & Feet) to get the fabulous sound I now have.
The end conclusion was that you don't need need to make every mod. possible to achieve stunning results on a Technics SL1200/1210.

Andrei

15-08-2013, 09:00

The Oyaide at £225 not so sure.

http://www.joynetmall.com/shop/index.php?cPath=60_65 US$262 but I guess postage would hurt.

Do you think all this extra weight is doing anything nasty?

MCRU

15-08-2013, 09:13

http://www.joynetmall.com/shop/index.php?cPath=60_65 US$262 but I guess postage would hurt.

Do you think all this extra weight is doing anything nasty?

not really, the tech was built to last

the oyaide mat and weight together are quite heavy but the bearing can take it

if you live in new zealand you should buy a mike new platter, not heard it but being an "expert" in engineering plastics for 20 years I know Mike has chosen a good material for his platter.

prestonchipfryer has the platter and likes it but won't lend to me for a listen :lol:

MikeMusic

15-08-2013, 09:48

http://www.joynetmall.com/shop/index.php?cPath=60_65 US$262 but I guess postage would hurt.

Do you think all this extra weight is doing anything nasty?

No
The weight improves the SQ whatever mat is on
Never any doubt that the Oyaide was doing a good job. Just wasn't sure, yesterday, if it was VFM

Last night I played Jerry Goodman - It's Alive, first track on the Achromat - it was good
Then I played it on the Oyaide and I had to chuckle. Big jump - it is very good

Just to be 100% sure before I commit to keeping it I played Ry Cooder Nitty Gritty Mississippi
To my surprise I was graced with the presence of the other half. She had been impressed last night hearing from the bedroom upstairs.
She told me I had to tell her what was going on. I said part of this was keeping her in the dark and she wasn;'t that sure what I was doing
Achromat first - good
Oyaide next - very good indeed
Her words - "no comparison, much better"

So there you go. An Oyaide is very good and jeeeusttt VFM
:)

Look out for what you have as part of your deck as you may not get the full strength of the Oyaide showing through

I think the Achromat is fantastic VFM.
The Oyaide is around 4 x the price so it has to be that much better

Look out for customs duty to be added on when you buy from abroad.
I had around £80 added to my Mike New Bearing

YNWaN

15-08-2013, 10:57

I use this mat:

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/markemark_2006/3_zps0a2a82b0.jpg

Never tried it on a Technics though.

Ali Tait

15-08-2013, 12:12

Anyone used an Oyaide with a 401?

prestonchipfryer

15-08-2013, 15:31

prestonchipfryer has the platter and likes it but won't lend to me for a listen :lol:

:violin: :ner:

Andrew B

15-08-2013, 16:31

I had an Achromat. I remember trying it on Linn Basik, Axis and LP12 because I had all three sitting around at the time. I also had a systemdek 900 that I tried it on. I strongly disliked it with all of them, but all are similarly suspended decks that normally use felt mats. I'd had a Pink 1, LPT and PT export at that time too although none at exactly the same time. I tried it on at least one, but my memory isnt complete. Again though, I disliked the Achromat. It just lacked any drive and bass. Pinks aren't really my thing for the same reason, but if you have different priorities, you may feel different.

I now use the OL mat on a Xerxes. It was a massive improvement on the Xerxes mat and it actually built on the bass and drive which I enjoy from the Roksan decks. It was also faster, clearer and sweeter too.

Aren't both offered on approval? If they are, I'd buy both and send the loser back.

MikeMusic

15-08-2013, 16:54

RobbieGong

15-08-2013, 21:21

not really, the tech was built to last

the oyaide mat and weight together are quite heavy but the bearing can take it

if you live in new zealand you should buy a mike new platter, not heard it but being an "expert" in engineering plastics for 20 years I know Mike has chosen a good material for his platter.

prestonchipfryer has the platter and likes it but won't lend to me for a listen :lol:

Can only agree that Mikes ETP Platter is indeed S for Superb !! I liked the look of it from the off and asked John (prestonchipfryer) for his views all positive I might add before buying. He described it as the icing on the cake after all the other mods, I whole heartedly agree. BTW, tried numerous mats with the stock platter, including Achromat and Oyaide, the list is endless, always prefered stock 3mm softer Techy rubber mat (not the rock hard Techie 5mm - horrid old tough thing that is :eek:). Mikes ETP and the said 3mm stock Techie sound wonderful in my set up :D

MCRU

15-08-2013, 22:30

Anyone used an Oyaide with a 401?

yes it fits like a glove (you ain't got a 401 have you?)

Andrei

16-08-2013, 03:36

Aren't both offered on approval? If they are, I'd buy both and send the loser back.
When you are in New Zealand there is postage there and back to consider.
Another question guys: what anti-earthquake measures do you guys adopt? We just had a 6.2 half an hour ago.

synsei

16-08-2013, 05:09

Another question guys: what anti-earthquake measures do you guys adopt? We just had a 6.2 half an hour ago.

We seldom suffer from quakes in Britain Andrei and even when we do they are usually very localised and struggle to push above 3 on the Richter scale, so I can't help you with that one. Incidentally the NZ Herald is reporting it was a 6.6 based on the limited data available at the moment, however seismologists are expecting that figure to rise to the high sixes once all the data has been collated. It's a shame for those who's homes and business premises have suffered damage as a result of the quake, I hope everyone affected got through it without injury or worse... :(

Ali Tait

16-08-2013, 05:36

yes it fits like a glove (you ain't got a 401 have you?)

Yup.

Andrei

16-08-2013, 05:59

they are usually very localised and struggle to push above 3 on the Richter scale,
So platter-damping is not such an issue for you then! On more serious note I recall some dreadful pictures on a NZ Hi-Fi forum after the Christchurch quake - speakers fallen over and similar carnage. Could be worse of course - have a certain sterilizing procedure ... shudder.

Andrei

16-08-2013, 06:05

if you live in New Zealand you should buy a mike new platter,

Right you are there ... so close he could throw it over like a frisbee!

Rare Bird

19-08-2013, 10:21

After playing about with quite a few mats i use an old Sansui thin rubber matt.

evozero

11-11-2013, 07:45

Hi,
Does anyone have a suggested upgrade for my Pioneer PL-50L2, it has the standard rubber Matt?
I can't find any comments on the net.
Cheers
Ian