Should I Get A Turntable?

[Ninanina]

I've been thinking whether I should get a turntable or not

I keep thinking what would I be gaining? then on the other hand I am pretty sure that vinyl CAN sound somewhat more refined than CD

I definitely don't want to spend too much on it if I do go down that route, but would I gain much having a simple/inexpensive set up? or would I need to spend lots to get a decent sound against CD?

Thanks for any help and guidance; I really am a turntable virgin, I pretty much know nothing about the beasts :scratch::scratch::scratch:

[southall-1998]

Just get a Rock Turntable and be happy !!

[Graeme]

Have you got lots of vinyl?
If yes, get a TT.
If not, dont bother unless your happy to spend lots of money on records!

I love the whole thing, crate digging, second hand vinyl shops, the ritual, the sound, it all goes together.
But i'd say if your not 'into' vinyl then think carefully as it will get expensive;)

[Ninanina]

Just get a Rock Turntable and be happy !!

Is that made by Townshend Audio? They look expensive, are they?

[John]

I think you have to ask yourself how much you will use one and do you really need one. Remember you will have to factor a phonostage also in as well as a cart and arm. There some great TTs around but no point if you will not use it
What price are we talking about

[Rothchild]

If you've already got a vinyl collection then probably you should have a turntable, but from my rudimentary dabblings I think you need quite a lot of investment to get the kind of vinyl sound that folk rave about. The majority of my vinyl pleasure comes not from the sound per-se but from the finding and exploring vinyl as a relatively cheap way (I tend only to crate dig charity shops and markets) to access music.

If I'm honest (and I'm sorry, I know this is the analogue board) I quite regularly put a flac file on after a good vinyl session and think 'fuck me that sounds great!'

Now, to be fair, I don't have the greatest reproduction system and I'm sure with some greater level of concern and expenditure than I'm able to make good vinyl sounds,,, good, but for me the enjoyment of vinyl is in more than the sound. (being the geek I am sometimes the fun is noticing the stuff that sounds better one way or the other e.g George Michael's 'Faith' album sounds better on CD but Portishead's 'Dummy' sounds better on vinyl)

So if you've got vinyl and/or you want to go shopping for some then yes you should have a turntable, if not then well I think it's a more marginal matter!

[Stratmangler]

If you have an existing vinyl collection then get a turntable.
If you haven't got any vinyl then don't tread the path - it's more effort than it's worth.

[Idlewithnodrive]

Just buy yourself a second hand deck, something like a Rega P3 that is well liked and known to have a decent sound for not a lot of money, a couple of your favourite albums on vinyl and jump in and see for yourself.

If it's not for you, you won't lose much money on resell and if you love it, you have my commiserations cos that's when the real problems begin :)

[chelsea]

Yes.

[Audioman]

Come on Bev how have you managed to avoid Turntables? I'm sure you can remember the vinyl era or were you a cassette person? As far as TT's are concerned the more you spend the better the sound more so than CD players. You really need to give us a budget but against your CD player I think something better than a Planar 3 or the cheaper Projects.

Good older designs at reasonable cost would include Michel Focus, Heybrook TT2 and Systemdek IIX. The later 2 need more skills in setting up the suspension. How about Michell Techno Dec or Project Perspective for newer designs. These are about the same ballpark price as that ex dem Tellurium Q Ultra Cable. Of course will need to buy a separate arm for most of these as well as a cartridge. Also has your Otto got a built in MM stage? If not a phono preamp will be needed.

Also consider the cost of building a vinyl collection from scratch these days. Decent used vinyl is becoming harder to find in my experience though there are far more reissues coming out. The better produced reissues aren't that cheap though many can be found for £15 or less.

Paul.

[Ninanina]

Come on Bev how have you managed to avoid Turntables? I'm sure you can remember the vinyl era or were you a cassette person? As far as TT's are concerned the more you spend the better the sound more so than CD players. You really need to give us a budget but against your CD player I think something better than a Planar 3 or the cheaper Projects.

Good older designs at reasonable cost would include Michel Focus, Heybrook TT2 and Systemdek IIX. The later 2 need more skills in setting up the suspension. How about Michell Techno Dec or Project Perspective for newer designs. These are about the same ballpark price as that ex dem Tellurium Q Ultra Cable. Of course will need to buy a separate arm for most of these as well as a cartridge. Also has your Otto got a built in MM stage? If not a phono preamp will be needed.

Also consider the cost of building a vinyl collection from scratch these days. Decent used vinyl is becoming harder to find in my experience though there are far more reissues coming out. The better produced reissues aren't that cheap though many can be found for £15 or less.

Paul.

Hi Paul
Well i guess in my youth i was a tape person, i spent a lot of time driving so a tape was all i listened to, my sister had one of those turntables which took a 'stack' of records and it sounded pretty good to me, at the time

I did have an old Technics stack system (actually my first hifi) which did also have a turntable but it sounded pretty awful therefore I didn't buy very many LP's, just a handful

The Project turntables look ok, but I have no idea about which arm, cartridge etc I should get. But like I said I have NO vinyl at the moment, it will be a complete new start, which sounds like it might be just a little bit expensive

Thanks for all the info guys & gals (well I'm guessing there are some other gals, I'm not sure) :)

[twotone]

I sold my CD player after getting the Technics SL1200mk2, rarely play cd or digital now and hardly ever bought a CD now I buy vinyl regularly.

Can honestly say I never thought that a vinyl setup could sound as good as or better a decent CD player, sometimes when I listen to a record I am actually amazed that a 12"vinyl record can sound as good.

Forget Rega P3s and suspended decks just go and buy a Technics and be done with it, stick a decent cart on the stock arm and get yourself a good phono stage and buy and Achromat.

Decent vinyl is easy enough to come by and there is millions of it out there but once bought you will rarely ever be able to sell it on, unless you buy first pressings and know exactly what your buying, as there really is too much of the stuff in the market place and most of it is worthless down to the grading system.

I now only buy near mint media or re-issues at about a tenner.

Tony

[chelsea]

Has the oto got the phono stage in?

[Thing Fish]

Bev, it can be an expensive but needn't be. But as stated it can be the road to ruin...lol

[chelsea]

Sell your TQ ultras and you could get a nice tt..:)

[walpurgis]

I've been thinking whether I should get a turntable or not

I'd say yes. But you have to be SO careful what you buy! It's easy to get it wrong and be disappointed. You don't need to spend a fortune, in fact I'd say as a minimum, second hand, you could get a Pioneer PL-12D and bung a Denon DL-160 in it and end up with a surprisingly musical little setup for under £200. If you fancy a Rega arm, make sure it's on a Rega turntable, that's where they generally work best. If you feel like spending a small fortune, I'd personally be looking in the direction of Nottingham Analogue. Love their TTs.

[Ninanina]

Has the oto got the phono stage in?

No unfortunately the Oto is line only

[walpurgis]

No unfortunately the Oto is line only

So you''ll want a phono stage. That is another area full of pitfalls. I must have tried dozens of phono stages and only a few stand out to me as exceptional at their price. Not heard anything from Pro Ject that really worked for me. If you want to try vinyl without spending a fortune the Cambidge 540P (MM) and 640P (MM/MC) are a bargain. The Icon Audio stages are nice and so is the EAR 834L if you want to stick with valves. There's always the little Bellari VP129 valve stage too, it's cheaper but remarkably capable (the later VP130 is not so well liked). Graham Slee seems to offer as good as it gets for the money. His products have little 'signature', you would not guess if you were listening to solid state or valves. I use one of his myself and find it superb.

[YNWaN]

I pretty much only listen to vinyl and am 100% supportive of it as a 'high end' source. However, you will receive as many opinions as to what to get as there are stars in the sky and vinyl playback at a high standard is not really for the uninformed (these days).

Reasonably priced and good quality packages are made by both Rega and Project (including arm and cartridge). Many will recommend vintage turntables to you and there is merit in this, but they are not really for those taking their first steps IMO.

[chelsea]

If you've not had a tt before i think i'd go for a DD to start with.
If you go belt drive probably best to get a non suspended unless you know someone who will set it up.

[WOStantonCS100]

As has been said, I think if you have the time and lifestyle to enjoy vinyl playback or the willingness to change your lifestyle so you do, go for it. If you don't/won't... no point, really. :)

I try very hard to do nothing but sit and listen to music via vinyl playback for at least 2 hrs a night. I often get lost in the music and 2 hrs turns into 3 or 4. On average I spend about 15 to 20 hrs a week or more, if I'm not working, just listening, serious listening with little to no distraction. I believe you can get quite good sound pretty quickly rivaling a good (not necessarily great) CD playback system without a huge outlay of funds, often better. However, you know, to get the kind of sound that we wacked-out :mental: vinylphiles rave about, takes quite a bit more investment in time, funds and catalog. It is definitely rewarding; but, conditionally so.

EDIT: Even on just the simple level of record collecting and listening to music, as a music lover, (via) vinyl... without a serious "audiophile" commitment... it's still pretty fun, if one were to consider it just a hobby. I did that for years in my youth; because, that's all I could afford.

[Thing Fish]

As stated previously I too only listen to vinyl as a playback source. Being the best reproduction medium by a country mile (to me and countless others) it's a no brainer.

Again as stated you can get the best return for your money by buying an older style turntable but you will need to tweak it yourself.

If that is not an option a Rega is a good purchase.

Once you go vinyl you really should never go back...;)

[WOStantonCS100]

Once you go vinyl you really should never go back...;)

What he said. I know very few folks who've ever gone back... without regretting it. Not all; but, most I know. ;)

...folks who sold off large, meticulous, collections only to have one of "those" :doh: moments later. Ouch.

[Andrei]

A pretty emphatic No from me. I have gone down that track and here is what I have blown in approximate pounds

1000 turntable with arm
500 cartridge
500 phono stage
200 interconnects
30 turntable mat
100 record cleaning machine
30 antistatic sleves
75 record shelf
60 granite slab for tt
10 carbon fibre brush
75 dust cover
200 worthless "near mint" LPs
1000 good to great LPs
you will also have to replace your stylus or cartridge every so often as well.

In quality terms it beats a CD on my Cambridge Audio 650, but it is behind SACD and well behind computer audio system. In money terms CDs and CD quality downloads are vastly cheaper.
I do enjoy my LPs and the turntable looks really cool in the lounge, but this money could have been better spent elsewhere. With all I have spent on the TT, vinyl, and accessories I could have purchased a top Audio Reference Amplifier. I think I have spread myself too thin. I have three sources but a savvy audiophile will have one source or two at the most.

There is another really compelling reason not to go down this route. If you want that gorgeous analogue sound then invest your funds in a high class valve amplifier. There is more of that beautiful holographic sound in a well fettled Amp than in vinyl.

That said, I have about a dozen LPs that can't be had for love nor money in the digital domain. I have only been into vinyl for less than two years and I make rare purchases of vinyl only if it is 45 rpm, or 180 g or something I want but can't find digitally. I enjoy following the Tecchie threads in this forum and there is definitely more to it than 'turning on the music'. So I reckon that if you have the passion, then go for it. All I'm saying is that if you want good sound: be aware of the many costs, not just TT.

[Colin Wonfor]

A pretty emphatic No from me. I have gone down that track and here is what I have blown in approximate pounds

1000 turntable with arm
500 cartridge
500 phono stage
200 interconnects
30 turntable mat
100 record cleaning machine
30 antistatic sleves
75 record shelf
60 granite slab for tt
10 carbon fibre brush
75 dust cover
200 worthless "near mint" LPs
1000 good to great LPs
you will also have to replace your stylus or cartridge every so often as well.

In quality terms it beats a CD on my Cambridge Audio 650, but it is behind SACD and well behind computer audio system. In money terms CDs and CD quality downloads are vastly cheaper.
I do enjoy my LPs and the turntable looks really cool in the lounge, but this money could have been better spent elsewhere. With all I have spent on the TT, vinyl, and accessories I could have purchased a top Audio Reference Amplifier. I think I have spread myself too thin. I have three sources but a savvy audiophile will have one source or two at the most.

There is another really compelling reason not to go down this route. If you want that gorgeous analogue sound then invest your funds in a high class valve amplifier. There is more of that beautiful holographic sound in a well fettled Amp than in vinyl.

That said, I have about a dozen LPs that can't be had for love nor money in the digital domain. I have only been into vinyl for less than two years and I make rare purchases of vinyl only if it is 45 rpm, or 180 g or something I want but can't find digitally. I enjoy following the Tecchie threads in this forum and there is definitely more to it than 'turning on the music'. So I reckon that if you have the passion, then go for it. All I'm saying is that if you want good sound: be aware of the many costs, not just TT.

"Ditto"

[Audio Al]

Yes ;)

[MikeMusic]

Yes

At least 2 reasons

I did a quick comparison between LP and CD weekend before last
The LP on my system beats a Rega Isis which is saying something

Some music is only available on LP and may remain so
I'm tracking an LP on Ebay right now where there is no CD that I can see anywhere

And if you would like to hear for yourself choose the A3 or the M3 and pop in an hear the difference !

[Clive197]

Emphatic YES from me. The only things you have to worry about is the cost of feeding your new habit and that all your non-HiFi friends will think you've lost the plot. Vinyl is king and May The Force Be With You.

[hifi_dave]

If you want plug n play and troubkle free enjoyment for decades - buy a Rega. New or s/hand, you can't go wrong.

[YNWaN]

I agree. Plus, if you choose to upgrade in the future, you will find the Rega very easy to sell on.

[high.spirits]

Yes - vinyl is a great medium. It's the whole process that works so well along with the music. Sleeve notes plus handling. Words cannot really explain it!

[Qwin]

I enjoy both CD and Vinyl.

Unlike the early offerings, modern CD's are pretty good. Some music is not available on Vinyl so its usefull to have both.

For current and usually electronic music I prefer CD, I recently bought OMD's English Electric album as a CD (also available on Vinyl). I am very pleased with the reproduction, turn the wick up and it kicks Ass.

When it comes to 60/70's Rock etc I prefere vinyl and original pressings. I have tried recent re-releases and remastered items and in some cases have copies of both, there is no contest here for me, the original vinyl is just so much more dynamic. (Beatles, Stones, Led Zep, Marvin Gaye, Van morrison etc).

I think a lot of current releases on vinyl, such as Adeles - 21 and Bowies - The Next Day, have little or less difference between the two mediums. For me it was the analogue recording process that made older vinyl special. A digital recording is a bit like making a vinyl from the CD, it certainly sounds that way on some recordings. The two I mention above come accross that way to me as records. That said, Rumers - Seasons Of My Soul, is a great vinyl experience. Generaly I would say I prefere acoutic stuff on vinyl, but it depends on individual recordings. One thing for certain, new vinyl is expensive and in several cases I have recently purchased used original and brand new copies of the same album, where I paid about three times the price for the new record, but prefere the sound of the original, if only marginally in some cases.

As for finding older vinyl, it is everywhere, most Towns will have a specialist shop or two, and it seems that tourist locations are popular spots eg there are two record shops in Whitby, two in Scarborough and four in just a small radius in the centre of York. Charity shops and car boot sales are good sources, about a quarter of my collection came from those places. Even Flebay can suprise you, though like most I have been burned a few times, with dodgy descriptions etc.

Digital has the potential to blow analogue out of the water, but not using the CD format. Orange book blah blah etc.
Blue Ray, now that is a different story, unfortunatley no one is releasing music on this format which has fantastic Audio Reproduction. For that reason, some of the best recordings of music curently available are probably to be found on Movie sound tracks.

These are just my views and to be taken alongside other opinions expressed and of course equipment is going to play its part which ever source you choose to listen to. :rock:

[daytona600]

Try a 2nd hand rega , project , technics first or try and borrow one to see how you get on with vinyl

[Thing Fish]

Yes - vinyl is a great medium. It's the whole process that works so well along with the music. Sleeve notes plus handling. Words cannot really explain it!

+1

[walpurgis]

I enjoy both CD and Vinyl.

Me too, they are different, but I get enjoyment from both.

[Ned664]

Yes from me too. Personally I find the music from my TT to be far more engaging and rewarding. My CD and DAC sound flat and more fatiguing to listen too in comparison. As I have indicated in my other posts however this is not reaaly a fair comparison as my vinyl reproduction has had about 3 to 4 times more investment and so could be expected to be better. I had a rega planar 3 before my current Roksan. The rega was old (20+ years) but to my ears still sounded better than the Audiolab CD8000 I had at the same time. My thoughts would be to get a cheapish rega 3 Denon DL 110 and Angle Audio reference phono stage and expect the differences to be subtle and musical. Will be interested to know what you decide.

[John R Leddy]

I've been thinking whether I should get a turntable or not

I keep thinking what would I be gaining? then on the other hand I am pretty sure that vinyl CAN sound somewhat more refined than CD

I definitely don't want to spend too much on it if I do go down that route, but would I gain much having a simple/inexpensive set up? or would I need to spend lots to get a decent sound against CD?

Thanks for any help and guidance; I really am a turntable virgin, I pretty much know nothing about the beasts :scratch::scratch::scratch:

Bev,

Before I put my oar in, I was reading your post and, thinking out loud, said "Oh look. Here is a girl asking, 'Should I get a turntable?'"

A voice from behind me said, "What for?"

I laughed, sometimes the wife can say in 2 words what it would take me 2 paragraphs to say.

John.

[John R Leddy]

I've been thinking whether I should get a turntable or not

I keep thinking what would I be gaining? then on the other hand I am pretty sure that vinyl CAN sound somewhat more refined than CD

I definitely don't want to spend too much on it if I do go down that route, but would I gain much having a simple/inexpensive set up? or would I need to spend lots to get a decent sound against CD?

Thanks for any help and guidance; I really am a turntable virgin, I pretty much know nothing about the beasts :scratch::scratch::scratch:

Bev,

When CDs first came out I knew people with LP collections of 2 and 3 thousand albums. The discussion at that time never seemed to bother with whether CD was better than LP, or vice versa. With substantial investments in replay equipment (Linn-Naim-Linn) and huge record collections, the consensus seemed to be, "I know what I have, and I know what I will be getting when I play an LP." The thought of re-purchasing all their albums again on CD way outweighed any discussion of which format sounded better than the other.

I was a different animal altogether. I absolutely resented the the money I spent on early 1980s LPs. Whether new releases or repressings of earlier albums, the albums just seemed to me like poorly replicated junk when compared to 1960s and '70s releases. It was like comparing a rubbish Polydor UK issue to a Reprise USA pressing of the same album; just no comparison whatsoever. There were no romantic notions in my head towards vinyl and I could not get rid of it more quickly. By 1985-86 I was CD-only.

The above polarised examples, while true in themselves, do not represent the vast majority of people, who moseyed along quite happily, and gradually changed over from record decks to CD players as and when it was opportunistic to do so, without any psychotic concern for high fidelity whatsoever. I wish I was like that. I seem to fuss over the absolutely minuscule amount of errant noise. This is why I laughed at Lesley's 2-word answer earlier. To me the LP days have gone; replaced by other more modern formats which are simply superior in every way.

You have an absolutely stonking system listed in your signature. With secondhand CDs costing tuppence ha'penny now, I would discourage the meandering road to nowhere of turntables, and suggest going big on streaming. There are CD players out there which destroy turntable replay, but their manufacturers will not repair them if necessary, making them not only expensive purchases in their own right, but obsolescent as well. Relatively speaking, for a fraction of the cost of a serious modern-day transcription turntable set-up, a streaming solution could be had which negates the vast majority of CD players as well.

I prefer Lesley's answer. This has got to be the most long-winded way of saying, "Less financial outlay for greater sound quality. No contest. Digital wins every time!"

John.

[synsei]

Wait for it.... :lol:

[YNWaN]

No doubt they said the same about mini-disc.....;)

[Andrew B]

Yes, I must admit I'd like one of those "CD players out there which destroy turntable replay", but so far I've not been able to hear one, let alone buy one.

Now, if you are looking for CD players that destroy music replay? Plenty of those around ;)

[walpurgis]

I must admit I'd like one of those "CD players out there which destroy turntable replay"

Ideally, they should be equally acceptable.

A friend of mine had a Mark Levinson CD transport/processor setup that sounded astonishing!

Actually, the sound I get is not too shabby either. Different to my vinyl, but very good indeed.

[chelsea]

Look forward to seeing a list of these cd players that destroy all turntables.

[walpurgis]

No doubt they said the same about mini-disc.....;)

I'm rather fond of my MiniDisc deck. It's very capable and has no 'nasties' to the sound at all.

[John R Leddy]

http://d2heru13qkbk4q.cloudfront.net/media/423424/scaled/CD12_1.JPG

[John R Leddy]

http://d2heru13qkbk4q.cloudfront.net/media/423426/scaled/CD12_3.JPG

[John R Leddy]

http://d2heru13qkbk4q.cloudfront.net/media/423427/scaled/CD12_4.JPG

[John R Leddy]

http://d2heru13qkbk4q.cloudfront.net/media/423428/scaled/CD12_6.JPG

[John R Leddy]

http://d2heru13qkbk4q.cloudfront.net/media/423429/scaled/CASE_OPEN.JPG

[John R Leddy]

http://d2heru13qkbk4q.cloudfront.net/media/423430/scaled/CASE_CLOSED.JPG

[chelsea]

£12,000 still or have they come down in price?
I heard it in an £85,000 all linn system at harords around 10 years ago.

Was dreadful,however cd player in another system maybe a different ball game.
Would certainly hope so for the price.

[Ninanina]

Thanks to everyone that has responded, super stuff :)

Now I'm even more confused, but on balance I think I'll give it a lot more thought before doing anything drastic :eek:

I've recently had it suggested to me to try Spotify too. I believe I could stream Spotify from either my Mac or iPad to, say, an Apple TV then via a Toslink cable to the Bushmaster and hey presto loads more music for a small outlay each month. The idea is just some way of getting more music more of the time. I buy secondhand cd's at just a few pennies at the moment

I have no idea if the quality is any good on Spotify and before I go and buy the Apple TV I'd like to find out if it's decent enough

[John R Leddy]

£12,000 still or have they come down in price?
I heard it in an £85,000 all linn system at harords around 10 years ago.

Was dreadful,however cd player in another system maybe a different ball game.
Would certainly hope so for the price.

Stu,

I have adopted another's description of Linn:

"Linn, some of the world's best front ends, adequate loudspeakers, and can't build an amplifier for toffee!"

John.

[chelsea]

Stu,

I have adopted another's description of Linn:

"Linn, some of the world's best front ends, adequate loudspeakers, and can't build an amplifier for toffee!"

John.


Yes you maybe right there.
Was slightly embarassing as one of Linns reps was in the room with me.

Very rarely have i heard a system sound that bad.

If it was only £5,000 for the system it still would have been far to much.

[chelsea]

Thanks to everyone that has responded, super stuff :)

Now I'm even more confused, but on balance I think I'll give it a lot more thought before doing anything drastic :eek:

I've recently had it suggested to me to try Spotify too. I believe I could stream Spotify from either my Mac or iPad to, say, an Apple TV then via a Toslink cable to the Bushmaster and hey presto loads more music for a small outlay each month. The idea is just some way of getting more music more of the time. I buy secondhand cd's at just a few pennies at the moment

I have no idea if the quality is any good on Spotify and before I go and buy the Apple TV I'd like to find out if it's decent enough


I'd see if you can borrow a TT first or you may be wasting your time.
Hunting out vinyl is part of the fun for me,far more enjoyable than downloads.

[John R Leddy]

http://www.hifido.co.jp/photo/07/057/05776/a.jpg

[John R Leddy]

http://www.hifido.co.jp/photo/07/057/05776/b.jpg

[John R Leddy]

http://www.hifido.co.jp/photo/07/057/05776/c.jpg

[John R Leddy]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BfmuVxzYgGQ/TKtm4If_ZbI/AAAAAAAAAQo/XE5o3WVmOBY/s1600/anniversary.jpg

[synsei]

£12,000 for a CDP? I think it is time to inject some realism back into this thread.

Bev, if you want a sensible TT option why not buy an SL1200 or 1210? Even in standard form they sound pretty good and you don't need to faff about with suspension setups. Subsequently, if vinyl does float your boat then you can step onto the upgrade ladder with the knowledge that there is a huge resource of information on AoS plus many members who have trodden this path who would be more than willing to help you along the way. If you find that vinyl is not for you then you can sell the SL on, I doubt you will make a loss on it if you buy sensibly ;)

[walpurgis]

£12,000? £12 from the boot sale is adequate for most people. ;)

[Tarzan]

Bev, in my experience, vinyl can sound amazing and it become addictive, as someone earlier in the thread said ( that rhymes) how many records do you have, and are you ready to make a commitment?




Do not let me confuse you though.:rolleyes:

[Roy S]

All my CDPs sound better than vinyl at the moment (perhaps just need to tweak the tt a little :D)

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss68/Lodger56/quad77_zpse1ac63f8.jpghttp://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss68/Lodger56/pstable_zps87b63d32.jpghttp://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss68/Lodger56/sonycdjb2_zps4e955022.jpghttp://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss68/Lodger56/pioneermp_zps829b3feb.jpghttp://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss68/Lodger56/technicscd_zps119d30a5.jpghttp://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss68/Lodger56/nadcd_zps24043ee8.jpg

[walpurgis]

Show off! :D

[Andrew B]

Aww c'mon :) where's the pic of the TT? No wonder it won't sing. It probably feels neglected :)

Edit: spotted it in the corner of one pic. Poor thing!

[Stratmangler]

how many records do you have?

Does this help?


But like I said I have NO vinyl at the moment, it will be a complete new start, which sounds like it might be just a little bit expensive

Thanks for all the info guys & gals (well I'm guessing there are some other gals, I'm not sure) :)

[John]

Thanks to everyone that has responded, super stuff :)

Now I'm even more confused, but on balance I think I'll give it a lot more thought before doing anything drastic :eek:

I've recently had it suggested to me to try Spotify too. I believe I could stream Spotify from either my Mac or iPad to, say, an Apple TV then via a Toslink cable to the Bushmaster and hey presto loads more music for a small outlay each month. The idea is just some way of getting more music more of the time. I buy secondhand cd's at just a few pennies at the moment

I have no idea if the quality is any good on Spotify and before I go and buy the Apple TV I'd like to find out if it's decent enough

Spotify quality is quite good and a great way to discover music but you have to pay monthly to get the best out of it

[Tarzan]

Does this help?


That will teach me to read through the whole thread before posting.

[MikeMusic]

Look forward to seeing a list of these cd players that destroy all turntables.

Well. My Rega Isis

is very heavy and if dropped from chest height would do a turntable a lot of damage

[MikeMusic]

Go and see someone nearby who has both and have a listen.
Offer still open to come up to me, that's around an hour's journey for you

Also bear in mind that some albums will never make it to Spotify or similar - or if they do it will be that Icon of kwallitee MP3

[MikeMusic]

£12,000 for a CDP? I think it is time to inject some realism back into this thread.


Naim 555 anyone ?
:)

[bob4333]

I've been thinking whether I should get a turntable or not

I keep thinking what would I be gaining? then on the other hand I am pretty sure that vinyl CAN sound somewhat more refined than CD

I definitely don't want to spend too much on it if I do go down that route, but would I gain much having a simple/inexpensive set up? or would I need to spend lots to get a decent sound against CD?

Thanks for any help and guidance; I really am a turntable virgin, I pretty much know nothing about the beasts :scratch::scratch::scratch:



I’m late into this but I’ll give you a view.

Vinyl replay can be the most involving and entertaining medium there is: but just like most things the best comes at a cost.

Define best? Holographic sound stages, deep bass, shimmering treble and all the other good words you’ve heard before. You will know when you hear something that lifts you above the sort of thing you hear every day on your present system and currently like.

So why do you want to tread the vinyl path?

The weakest reason (which I doubt applies) is because it’s fashionable. Save your money – it’ll pass.

The strongest? Because you think it may offer something you don’t currently have but suspect may be attainable in sound terms. If this is the case you will have to try it and see but may be in danger of feeding a money pit if it doesn’t work out.

Have a listen to something that’s within what you’re prepared to initially spend (friends or dealers) and make a judgement – and the criteria is how it sounds: if it doesn’t measure up on this count then why spend your money? If your criteria is the aesthetic beauty of that spinning turntable and drop dead gorgeous arm but it’s sound doesn’t really lift you then you’re really back with fashionable and it’ll soon be gathering dust or making an appearance on the bay.

Some will say you can get great sound from budget kit or “car boot” finds but I’ve not found this to be compatible with reaching the level of sound quality that moves me forward. If all you want to do is spin some vinyl it'll work. Over 30 years my turntables have gone through the range from Pioneer PL12D/Rega Planar 2/Linn Axis/Michelle Gyrodec/Linn LP12/Michelle Orbe SE: but this tells only a part of the story. From the Gyro onwards the deck was only a part of the solution as the arm/cartridge/phono stage combo supplied the other part of the answer – and never underestimate the importance and the cost of the “other part of the answer” and the need to match. The Gyro failed ultimately not because of any lack of quality in itself, but because of poor arm/cart/phono stage partnering: a lesson I learned the hard way.

Before buying my Orbe SE I looked long and hard at the posts and reviews regarding the Technics 1200/1210’s that feature strongly on this forum and elsewhere. Most start off with a used unit and by a judicious selection of mods and refinements end up with something that delivers just what the owner is looking for. If you’ve heard a 1210 that does this then you have something to aim for: if not then you’re into a leap of faith and if it doesn’t work out or you lose interest you may not find it quite so easy to get your money back compared with something off the shelf.

But perhaps part of the appeal is the gamble and can it be done? There are some beautiful looking 1210's on the forum and I'm sure they have sound to match.

Vinyl can be very rewarding: it must be or why would we put up with getting out of our chair every 15/20 minutes to flip the LP?

Anyone else care to stir the pot?

[MikeMusic]

Spotify quality is quite good and a great way to discover music but you have to pay monthly to get the best out of it
Pay money ! ?
Not for Spotify
I can't keep up with all the new-to-me artists from just punting around and following rabbits down holes

[Oldpinkman]

I’m late into this but I’ll give you a view.

Vinyl replay can be the most involving and entertaining medium there is: but just like most things the best comes at a cost. ...

Vinyl can be very rewarding: it must be or why would we put up with getting out of our chair every 15/20 minutes to flip the LP?

Anyone else care to stir the pot?

I thought that was a pretty good stir to be honest. The fashion thing is clearly in. Friends of mine in Hong Kong, who used to mock my vinyl player when CD's wer "so much better" bought the re-issue Fleetwood Mac Rumours LP for nostalgia, and then had to ask my advice for something to play it on. They now love the simplicity of it compared with downloads and technology. A sort of retro thing.

And I think the toughest part (well, the one I have no useful ideas about) is the phono stage. To plug my freinds deck (Radlett have a bargain one for sale) but as one I have direct recent relevant experience of, the Funk LSD with a Goldring 1022 gives a decent - really good - performance. It shines properly with my PIP pre-amp, and is much more ordinary with the Technics Arthur has at the factory, or the Quad 44. But there are a lot of phono stages out there, I don't know, and chances are some of them are interesting. Even so, Radlett Daves record player with a 1022 is £1100 - and if I were parting with that money I would part with another £60 or whatever it is for an achromat - the felt mat is really only on the tt to get it in at a price level. So a lot of bucks, and then you need a decent pre-amp (although, in this context, I would suggest, in spite of noting it is not THE BEST EVER) either a Quad 33 34 or 44 offer a reasonable option for under £200.

But you are right - you get much more bang for buck from digital - even red book CD. And then there is the cost of acquiring a record collection...

But if you fall for it, and my missus has just recently - big time, vinyl is a romantic nostalgic medium, and CAN offer astonishing home music performances :)

[Chivas]

or why would we put up with getting out of our chair every 15/20 minutes to flip the LP?



Otherwise I fall asleep and spill whiskey all over myself!!

[Chivas]

Bev, I think it is simple and depends on what type of person you are. Personally I think you are either a vinyl person or you are not.

If you're not, you will hate cleaning and caring for your records, you will hate fiddling with your deck, you will detest surface noise and groan every 15mins you have to flip the record, you will sulk and throw a tantrum when you break your first stylus, curse the medium, sell it all and feel miffed.

If you are, you will love all of those things, except perhaps the breaking a stylus part, but you will take it on the chin more easily and persevere.

I couldn't care whether vinyl sounds better than cd or the other way around (incidentally I do think vinyl sounds better - a lot, if done the right way), but for me, it is all about the romance! Nothing will ever beat vinyl when it comes to dimming the lights, dropping the arm, anticipating the needle drop with closed eyes, hearing the needle drop, the crackle and pops, then when that first note projects out in the room, a smile appearing on my face, taking a sip and sitting back.

I don't get that with cd...

[Audio Al]

Anyone near Bev who could lend her a TT for a week :)

I would if you were over my way but not prepared to ship one

[hifi_dave]

Naim 555 anyone ?
:)

The Naim CD 555 is now almost £20K.

Yes, that's correct and it's no match for the Rega Isis at less than 1/3 the price.

[Beobloke]

Naim 555 anyone ?
:)

If you're offering, then yes please!

In fact, I was sat in a Naim demo a few years back and they had a pretty top end system set up, which included the 555 CD player plus around £8000 worth of turntable through a Superline as well. Now, I know the turntable quite well (and no, it wasn't an LP12 before anyone asks) and it's very, very good, plus this demo one had been properly set up by the manufacturer. It sounded superb - really lovely. They then switched to the CD555 which rather stunned me by bettering it in a number of areas! Basically, it's still the best CD player I've heard to date and I'm determined to own one, one day.

Bev,

Get yerself a Pioneer PL-12D turntable, an Audio Technica AT95E cartridge and a Cambridge Audio or Pro-ject phono stage - this lot should be achievable without stretching to 3 figures. Buy a few good condition secondhand LPs and have a play. This will tell you if vinyl is for you or not. If it isn't, you'll be able to sell all the above easily and get your money back. If it is, start saving, because it's remarkably addictive... :D

[John]

Pay money ! ?
Not for Spotify
I can't keep up with all the new-to-me artists from just punting around and following rabbits down holes

There lots of way to discover new music Mike I am responding to Bev question on spotify and giving a honest answer. One thing good around spotify is releated artists it a good way to discover new music before purchase, if you want reasonable sound quality without ads you have to pay for it on spotify. You can always use groveshark and itunes to discover music as well as internet radio but the question was on spotify not on means to discover new artisits. I actualy like discovering new music

[MikeMusic]

Bev, I think it is simple and depends on what type of person you are. Personally I think you are either a vinyl person or you are not.

I'm often out of step with the rest of the world, being from off planet like..
I use the best sounding whenever I can at home. Often there is no LP or CD avaialble
Except - At work it has to be CD to allow me to get on with work. I have thought about a deck though :)

[MikeMusic]

The Naim CD 555 is now almost £20K.

Yes, that's correct and it's no match for the Rega Isis at less than 1/3 the price.

Ow !
:eek:

[MikeMusic]

There lots of way to discover new music Mike I am responding to Bev question on spotify and giving a honest answer. One thing good arounf spotify is releated artists it a good way to discover new music before purchase, if you want reasonable sound quality without ads you have to pay for it on spotify. You can always use groveshark and itunes to discover music as well as internet radio but the question was on spotify not on means to discover new artisits. I actualy like discovering new music
I spend a lot of time discovering new to me music
Recently started using Spotify again after finding it did have the music I was after - previously it was hopeless
Amazon, Uk or US gets most for me, Allmusic and YouTube, last is Spotify which I often forget due to the past experiences of them having nothing. I have a backlog already rarely looking at related artists on any of the above as I don't have the time. I'm already following up artists that used to be in bands I like or who play in a favourite album

[Spectral Morn]

:offtopic:


This thread has gone off topic in a number of places.

A fairly simple question has been asked

Should I get a turntable? Not should I get spotify, or a better CD player or a ....... ?

Bev says she has no vinyl, well that may not be a block, as all of us started with zero media to play when we adopted something new. I recall having no CDs and no Blu Rays, no DVDs etc. It is worth keeping in mind that vinyl in quantity is heavy and takes up room and ideally should be stored upright and in a room with even temp, no damp and no mold issues due to bad ventilation.

Cheapest best value for money turntables out there are the Project Debut series (come with a nice ortofon MM cart) and then get a Project phono box, which will act as a get you up and going phonostage. The other nice thing about the Debut is they are not too fussy about where you place them, as long as its flat and level that will suffice. Regas really require a wall shelf to get the best from them as their design makes them prone to acoustic feed back due to bad placement. I am not saying that all turntables regardless of price won't benefit from a wall shelf (including a Debut) being used (mounted to a solid wall) but Rega Plannar's (old or newer) need it as a base line from which to work.

A Project Debut will give a modest priced CD player a run for its money and will be better if well set up and clean, scratch free vinyl is used. Modest turntables, arms, carts handle damaged vinyl less well than more expensive ones and surface noise is a reality of most vinyl playback, which is more obvious with budget set ups.

You could buy a second hand turntable but frankly that requires a lot of potential work and knowledge though a Technics 1200/1210 is fairly plug and co option but setting up a cart/arm requires knowledge and tools. The advantage of buying a Project or any new turntable is the dealer will set it up, buying S/h from a bricks and mortar retailer means for a fee they will set it up for you (a nice dealer might do it FOC) buying second hand from ebay etc means you are on your own and God alone knows what you will get. Buy off a forum and perhaps you will - if they live nearby and are knowledgeable re turntable set up and will set it up for you - get a nice dearer set up for less.

The only turntable I would say to avoid new or S/H is the Roksan Xerxes, its a nightmare to work on and maintain. With S/H make sure company still exists and there are parts available to still service it.

Buying vinyl I would stick to buying new until you get a feel for things and if the bug bites learn what to spot and do re buying S/H in shops preferably to on the net - too risky to buy S/H off ebay etc imho.



If all the above puts you of then I would say don't buy a turntable.

Hope the above is off help.


Regards Neil

[Andrew B]

Personally, I'd not waste my cash on anything new. Too much lost if you dont keep the thing. About ten years ago I started again with a Project Debut 3 and it wasn't fit to be playing vinyl on IMHO. I heard the Genie more recently and ditto.

If anyone wants to try vinyl at zero risk, Id say buy a used Rega 3 in original packing. It will require at most only cartridge setup, has no suspension and will give a very clear indication of what vinyl can offer. From there, a buyer can sell on without a loss and either upgrade or forget the idea. Alternately they can keep the Rega and enjoy the music.

Whilst a better turntable will beat a Rega 3 in a direct comparison, I could very happily live with one and not feel like I was missing out. I can speak from experience because I have lived with a Rega in a decent system and been happy. I know others who have too. I should add that they need minimal maintenance, very rarely go wrong and often come its a dealer fitted cartridge due to the level of support given by Rega dealers.

[Spectral Morn]

My experience is the opposite to yours Andrew unless a Rega is properly supported/sited (thats the key here) then a Debut is better imho/e

[John R Leddy]

...vinyl in quantity is heavy and takes up room and ideally should be stored upright and in a room with even temp, no damp and no mold issues due to bad ventilation.

Cheapest best value for money turntables out there are the Project Debut series...

The other nice thing about the Debut is they are not too fussy about where you place them, as long as its flat and level that will suffice.

A Project Debut will give a modest priced CD player a run for its money and will be better if well set up and clean, scratch free vinyl is used.

Modest turntables, arms, carts handle damaged vinyl less well than more expensive ones and surface noise is a reality of most vinyl playback, which is more obvious with budget set ups.

You could buy a second hand turntable but frankly that requires a lot of potential work and knowledge though a Technics 1200/1210 is fairly plug and go option but setting up a cart/arm requires knowledge and tools.

The advantage of buying a Project or any new turntable is the dealer will set it up, buying S/h from a bricks and mortar retailer means for a fee they will set it up for you (a nice dealer might do it FOC) buying second hand from ebay etc means you are on your own and God alone knows what you will get.

The only turntable I would say to avoid new or S/H is the Roksan Xerxes, its a nightmare to work on and maintain. With S/H make sure company still exists and there are parts available to still service it.

Buying vinyl I would stick to buying new until you get a feel for things and if the bug bites learn what to spot and do re buying S/H in shops preferably to on the net - too risky to buy S/H off ebay etc imho.

Hope the above is off help.

Regards,

Neil.

Pro-Ject Debut III

http://www.project-audio.com/inhalt/bilder/debut.jpg


"High quality entry-level classic with a very low price."

Choose your colour at: http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=debut

[John R Leddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgJ53im9ZL4#at=236

How to Set-Up Your Pro-Ject Turntable

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgJ53im9ZL4#at=236

[John R Leddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQDsNY7j4Tg

How To Get The Most From Vinyl Records

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQDsNY7j4Tg

[loo]

yes this
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?27152-Funk-Little-Super-Deck:)

[John R Leddy]

Personally, I'd not waste my cash on anything new. Too much lost if you don't keep the thing. About ten years ago I started again with a Project Debut 3 and it wasn't fit to be playing vinyl on IMHO. I heard the Genie more recently and ditto.

If anyone wants to try vinyl at zero risk, I'd say buy a used Rega 3 in original packing. It will require at most only cartridge setup, has no suspension and will give a very clear indication of what vinyl can offer. From there, a buyer can sell on without a loss and either upgrade or forget the idea. Alternately they can keep the Rega and enjoy the music.

Whilst a better turntable will beat a Rega 3 in a direct comparison, I could very happily live with one and not feel like I was missing out. I can speak from experience because I have lived with a Rega in a decent system and been happy. I know others who have too. I should add that they need minimal maintenance, very rarely go wrong and often come its a dealer fitted cartridge due to the level of support given by Rega dealers.

http://www.rega.co.uk/product_images/RP3-TITANIUM-WITH-MAT.gif

Rega RP3: http://www.rega.co.uk/html/RP3.htm

Rega Research Limited

- Celebrating 40 Years Of Great British Hi-Fi

- Still Made In Britain

Website: http://www.rega.co.uk



Audio T (Portsmouth): http://www.audiot.co.uk/storefinder/portsmouth/

Rega: http://www.audiot.co.uk/hifi/#brands=81&r=1

Rega RP3 turntable with Elys 2 cartridge @ £549.00
http://www.audiot.co.uk/products/rega-rp3-turntable-with-elys-2-cartridge-3383.aspx

[John R Leddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EfvHl8-88U

Rega

Fine British Hi-Fi Since 1973

www.rega.co.uk (http://www.rega.co.uk)

[Spectral Morn]

:scratch:

[synsei]

I seem to have fallen into the trade section... :scratch:

[Spectral Morn]

I seem to have fallen into the trade section... :scratch:

Twilight Zone of posts. Must admit I have never seen that style before.

I have no issue with Rega's but they do require proper sitting and the isolation of a wall shelf to sound/perform right imho/e. The Project doesn't and is thus a no brainer starter turntable.

[pjdowns]

Naim 555 anyone ?
:)

Yep and it wipes the floor with that crappy Linn junk John put up... But still won't come close to a decent Turntable whatever anyone says!!

[pjdowns]

The Naim CD 555 is now almost £20K.

Yes, that's correct and it's no match for the Rega Isis at less than 1/3 the price.

Sorry Dave, this statement is utter tosh!

[Andrew B]

I like Regas on an Ikea Lack table or an isoplat or even both. I find them far less fussy than Sondeks, Alphasons, Mantras etc.

If anyone wants something almost as good for next to nothing, maybe look at a Revolver Rebel. They sometimes go for twenty quid or thereabouts on EBay. I'd take one over a Debut any day and their price is just silly at times. Ugly as sin mind :)

The Revolver itself often goes cheap too. Reasonable Jelco arm fitted (250). Alternately a Mission 775LC can be a very good deck. Another Jelco armed deck and often cheap as chips. Comes with its own isoplat feet, although its better with another underneath. I replaced one with an Axis once and got a worse sound from the latter.

[Andrew B]

Sorry Dave, this statement is utter tosh!

I'll settle this! Just send me one of each please. Please???

Hehehe

[pjdowns]

I'll settle this! Just send me one of each please. Please???

Hehehe

:lol: :rfl:

[hifi_dave]

Sorry Dave, this statement is utter tosh!

And why is that ?

[pjdowns]

Because the CD555 would kick it's butt on a bad day!

[Roy S]

Aww c'mon :) where's the pic of the TT? No wonder it won't sing. It probably feels neglected :)

Edit: spotted it in the corner of one pic. Poor thing!

My TTs were feeling left out so for the sake of completeness

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss68/Lodger56/qla7_zps05d87fd5.jpghttp://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss68/Lodger56/linn_zpsc6bb9c68.jpghttp://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss68/Lodger56/project_zps380ffa25.jpghttp://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss68/Lodger56/gr_zps5c6b439c.jpg

+ A Yamaha in the loft & a Garrard in a cupboard

[hifi_dave]

Because the CD555 would kick it's butt on a bad day!

How many times have you done a direct demonstration of a 555 against the Isis ?

I've done it many, many times and to my ears and those of my customers, the Isis is superior. Even if it was closer, the Isis is still 1/3 the price of the 555.

Based on my experience, I would suggest that your statement is 'utter tosh'.

[Spectral Morn]

I like Regas on an Ikea Lack table or an isoplat or even both. I find them far less fussy than Sondeks, Alphasons, Mantras etc.

If anyone wants something almost as good for next to nothing, maybe look at a Revolver Rebel. They sometimes go for twenty quid or thereabouts on EBay. I'd take one over a Debut any day and their price is just silly at times. Ugly as sin mind :)

The Revolver itself often goes cheap too. Reasonable Jelco arm fitted (250). Alternately a Mission 775LC can be a very good deck. Another Jelco armed deck and often cheap as chips. Comes with its own isoplat feet, although its better with another underneath. I replaced one with an Axis once and got a worse sound from the latter.

The Revolver Rebel is a good possibility, but the motor spindle can cause problems which leads to the speed being off.


Regards Neil

[pjdowns]

Based on my experience, I would suggest that your statement is 'utter tosh'.

Sorry Dave didn't mean to cause any ill feeling... Just to my ears I have never heard a better CD player than the CD555 and that includes the previous most expensive CD Transport / DAC combo in the world (Mark Levinson maybe?) cost somewhere in the region of 80-100k for both units. I've never liked the Rega 'sound' to me they sound almost brittle and full of sibilance.

[Oldpinkman]

Sorry Dave didn't mean to cause any ill feeling... Just to my ears I have never heard a better CD player than the CD555 and that includes the previous most expensive CD Transport / DAC combo in the world (Mark Levinson maybe?) cost somewhere in the region of 80-100k for both units. I've never liked the Rega 'sound' to me they sound almost brittle and full of sibilance.

Erhem. Take some advice from Doctor Who -this is off thread. Watch out for the Daleks! :)

[pjdowns]

Erhem. Take some advice from Doctor Who -this is off thread. Watch out for the Daleks! :)

Now I am completely confused! :scratch:

[hifi_dave]

Sorry Dave didn't mean to cause any ill feeling... Just to my ears I have never heard a better CD player than the CD555 and that includes the previous most expensive CD Transport / DAC combo in the world (Mark Levinson maybe?) cost somewhere in the region of 80-100k for both units. I've never liked the Rega 'sound' to me they sound almost brittle and full of sibilance.

No offence taken.

I have heard, stocked and sold many expensive CD players in my time and to my ears, the Rega Isis is the closest to the Mark Levinson machines we used to sell on a regular basis. Unfortunately, Mark Levinson, as we knew them, are long gone but the lucid, analogue sound of those machines lives on in the Isis.

I've never yet heard a Rega CD player sound 'brittle' or 'sibilant'. Right from their first model, they have been closer to the analogue sound than their competitors. Sweet, solid and with great presence would be my description and that is what customers usually agree on. Many players are bright, thin and brittle but you could never accuse Rega of that.

May I suggest that when you heard a Rega CD player, it was the system and/or room interaction that resulted in the sound you describe

[Oldpinkman]

Now I am completely confused! :scratch:

Go back to post 84 on this thread :)

[pjdowns]

Point taken Richard :)

[pjdowns]

May I suggest that when you heard a Rega CD player, it was the system and/or room interaction that resulted in the sound you describe

Very interesting as I've heard many a Rega CD player and always thought they sounded bright. I compared my CDI to a few different models including a similar vintage Rega and the Naim was light years ahead from both an analogue sounding perspective and overall fun factor!

I admit I've not heard the Isis but on past experiences I would (up until now maybe) have touched it with a barge poll!

[hifi_dave]

Very interesting as I've heard many a Rega CD player and always thought they sounded bright. I compared my CDI to a few different models including a similar vintage Rega and the Naim was light years ahead from both an analogue sounding perspective and overall fun factor!

I admit I've not heard the Isis but on past experiences I would (up until now maybe) have touched it with a barge poll!

I would hope that a Naim CD1 sounded better than a 'vintage' Rega as it was in a completely different price bracket when new. Comparing like with like would yield a different result.

Previously, you stated that the Naim CD 555 would 'kick the butt' of the Rega Isis but you now admit that you haven't heard the Isis. Perhaps that was a rash statement ?

[chelsea]

I'am surprised people still spend more than a few hundred on a cd player

[pjdowns]

:champagne:
I would hope that a Naim CD1 sounded better than a 'vintage' Rega as it was in a completely different price bracket when new. Comparing like with like would yield a different result.

Previously, you stated that the Naim CD 555 would 'kick the butt' of the Rega Isis but you now admit that you haven't heard the Isis. Perhaps that was a rash statement ?

Hmm nope... Whilst I don't count myself as a Naimee, I am quite wedded to their CD players.. Doubt I'll ever own another make!

Although I agree they've not always got it right. The CD2, the replacement for the CDI was a total pile of pooh and the CDX (1) wasn't much cop either... The CDS3 and CD555 on the other hand mmmmmm :kiss:

[synsei]

The point here Paul is that you have not heard an Isis therefore your basis for comparison is utterly flawed, forgive me for saying so ;)

[pjdowns]

The point here Paul is that you have not heard an Isis therefore your basis for comparison is utterly flawed, forgive me for saying so ;)

Really Dave???.... I was struggling with that... Honest ;)

[hifi_dave]

:champagne:

Hmm nope... Whilst I don't count myself as a Naimee, I am quite wedded to their CD players.. Doubt I'll ever own another make!

Although I agree they've not always got it right. The CD2, the replacement for the CDI was a total pile of pooh and the CDX (1) wasn't much cop either... The CDS3 and CD555 on the other hand mmmmmm :kiss:

I eventually sold the 555 for just under £6K, which was the best I could get after advertising it for a year. Obviously, that is all it is worth and is annoying, as it is the only piece of Hi-Fi I have lost money on in 40 years !!! I now have a new Naim CDX2 up at £1900, a saving of £2K. What do you reckon I will get for that ?

I don't believe Naim are trying any more as they believe the future (like Linn) is downloads.

[DSJR]

The CDI is a nice player, although perhaps a little coloured to sound nice all the time? The CDS2 took this basic 'flavour' into another plane altogether I found and at its stupid price now, I suspect the CDS3/XPS2 does the same. The CDS2 sounded wonderful into anything I played it into. The Linn CD12 however, ONLY came into it's own with a full range and clear sounding system and sounded no better than a cheap Denon into humble gear..

Paul, what you need to bear in mind now is that the DAC chips and associated bits are VERY cheap now, even for tiny manufacturers like Naim. Top End audio these days is mostly about status for the owner and the cachet this kind of gear bestows, especially in 'fandom,' of which Naim was a popular club to belong to. The Isis Valve is a superb player for music reproduction and even then, it's high price raises my eyebrows, although again, it's cachet that would sell it really i n the UK anyway, or possibly ex-dem prices from dealers no longer Rega-Reference stockists.

Into amps that don't ring or react to rf and ultra-sonic nasties coming down the wires, then domestic CD playback can be excellent. Some amps don't like it, so if you find CD still sounds brash and thin toned, I'd look elsewhere for the problem myself, but that's me obviously...

I hate to disagree with Dalek Neil, but the cheaper Pro-jects I've sold and used at home have often had terrible motor harmonic noise coming through, especially the Debut decks of old, not helped by the cheapo Ortofon OM5 or similar they come with, which are rough sounding and utterly charmless basic models when compared to their more expensive siblings in the range. The manufacturers claim to have sorted the noise issues though, although the update kit I bought for a cousin's Debut 2 didn't cure it. I'd also argue that ANY light to medium mass turntable needs careful siting, Pro-ject's too. Rega's since 2000 or so have minimised the wow they could suffer from and recent developments to the structure and platter choice (for the RP1 and RP6 upwards) have kept their edge over most of the competition IMO. I have high hopes for the Funk LSD, but it still lacks the precise finish of any Rega model.

Anyway, enough of us here use a variety of sources both digital and analogue with no issues at all, the music always coming first rather than the gear in the way. Just my view obviously...

[Stratmangler]

I'am surprised people still spend more than a few hundred on a cd player

I'm surprised that anybody bothers with CD players at all, never mind actually spending decent money on them :eyebrows:
I've been streaming for many a year now.

I will be honest - I did enjoy Greg's front end and amps driving revised Edingdales at the Owston meet earlier on this year, and Greg's CD player is a Naim unit.

[chelsea]

I eventually sold the 555 for just under £6K, which was the best I could get after advertising it for a year. Obviously, that is all it is worth and is annoying, as it is the only piece of Hi-Fi I have lost money on in 40 years !!! I now have a new Naim CDX2 up at £1900, a saving of £2K. What do you reckon I will get for that ?

I don't believe Naim are trying any more as they believe the future (like Linn) is downloads.


Don't you sell naim though.:scratch:

[pjdowns]

I can see your pain Dave... That is a rediculous and unfortunate loss.

I think you're probably right about the download theory though, I was gobsmaked when they disbanded the CDS3

[pjdowns]

I've been thinking whether I should get a turntable or not

I keep thinking what would I be gaining? then on the other hand I am pretty sure that vinyl CAN sound somewhat more refined than CD

I definitely don't want to spend too much on it if I do go down that route, but would I gain much having a simple/inexpensive set up? or would I need to spend lots to get a decent sound against CD?

Thanks for any help and guidance; I really am a turntable virgin, I pretty much know nothing about the beasts :scratch::scratch::scratch:

Sorry Bev, I've completely stolen your thread... Bad karma coming my way :(

By the way, my opinion would be all depends on whether you're willing to spend a lot of money on Vinyl and have the means to store them. If the answer is no, keep to CD and downloads!

[Audioman]

I'm surprised that anybody bothers with CD players at all, never mind actually spending decent money on them :eyebrows:
I've been streaming for many a year now.

I will be honest - I did enjoy Greg's front end and amps driving revised Edingdales at the Owston meet earlier on this year, and Greg's CD player is a Naim unit.

Possibly because some people have substantial Cd collections and don't want to spend time and money buying music sever /dac etc as well as ripping them. Some of the commercial music servers (LINN and Naim again) are a right rip off even compared to high end CD players. A good 'vintage' Cd player is still a realistic proposition as well as new ones in the £1-2K bracket. More expensive CD never delivered improvements that justify the price difference IMO. Anyway thought this was about turntables which certainly do deliver rather more with greater expenditure. Personally I would aim a little higher in quality rather than P3/RP3 and it's near competitors. The real value in good vinyl replay tends to lie over £1K for new decks.

[Stratmangler]

Anyway thought this was about turntables which certainly do deliver rather more with greater expenditure. Personally I would aim a little higher in quality rather than P3/RP3 and it's near competitors. The real value in good vinyl replay tends to lie over £1K for new decks.

I thought it was about turntables too, and whether or not to try one, considering that the OP hasn't got any vinyl records to play on one.
It was all covered in the first few posts, and all of the rest is pretty well meaningless drivel :eyebrows:

If I didn't have a legacy of vinyl records to play I wouldn't touch a TT with a ten foot pole - it's too much hassle by far.
However, I'm an old fart who grew up on a diet of vinyl and truly pioneering and exciting rock music, so I still run and enjoy using a TT.

So my advice to Bev is the still the same - don't go there, it's more trouble than it's worth :cool:

[twotone]

I'am surprised people still spend more than a few hundred on a cd player


I sold an Arcam CD23T recently for £400, I noticed the price of them were going up so I put it on ebay and it sold within ten minutes of listing it.

I was astonished, frankly.

[hifi_dave]

Depends what you're used to. I don't find that playing a record is any more of a chore than a CD and certainly a lot quicker, easier and more satisfying than a download. But, that's me and other old gits who grew up with records.

I've been selling more and more turntables now - some to newbies, some to those who put their LPs in the loft ten years ago and some who regularly use a TT but want an upgrade. I haven't yet found anyone who has decided it's not worth the bother. Far from it - they are invariably bowled over by what they hear and start telling me just how good vinyl is..:doh:

[Andrew B]

Love that last line on Hifi Dave's post :)

[walpurgis]

I don't really see a problem here, or much to argue about really. I use CD and vinyl and enjoy them equally as both offer good sound quality. Anybody else can do the same. It's just a choice.

[Stubies]

Neil

Really useful advice for a vinyl re-newbee.

I did records a long time ago, i miss them now.

The easy way back in is a good route, if i find a nice Project Debut i will try your suggestion.

There are just too many options to consider, better keep it simple to start :))))




:offtopic:


This thread has gone off topic in a number of places.

A fairly simple question has been asked

Should I get a turntable? Not should I get spotify, or a better CD player or a ....... ?

Bev says she has no vinyl, well that may not be a block, as all of us started with zero media to play when we adopted something new. I recall having no CDs and no Blu Rays, no DVDs etc. It is worth keeping in mind that vinyl in quantity is heavy and takes up room and ideally should be stored upright and in a room with even temp, no damp and no mold issues due to bad ventilation.

Cheapest best value for money turntables out there are the Project Debut series (come with a nice ortofon MM cart) and then get a Project phono box, which will act as a get you up and going phonostage. The other nice thing about the Debut is they are not too fussy about where you place them, as long as its flat and level that will suffice. Regas really require a wall shelf to get the best from them as their design makes them prone to acoustic feed back due to bad placement. I am not saying that all turntables regardless of price won't benefit from a wall shelf (including a Debut) being used (mounted to a solid wall) but Rega Plannar's (old or newer) need it as a base line from which to work.

A Project Debut will give a modest priced CD player a run for its money and will be better if well set up and clean, scratch free vinyl is used. Modest turntables, arms, carts handle damaged vinyl less well than more expensive ones and surface noise is a reality of most vinyl playback, which is more obvious with budget set ups.

You could buy a second hand turntable but frankly that requires a lot of potential work and knowledge though a Technics 1200/1210 is fairly plug and co option but setting up a cart/arm requires knowledge and tools. The advantage of buying a Project or any new turntable is the dealer will set it up, buying S/h from a bricks and mortar retailer means for a fee they will set it up for you (a nice dealer might do it FOC) buying second hand from ebay etc means you are on your own and God alone knows what you will get. Buy off a forum and perhaps you will - if they live nearby and are knowledgeable re turntable set up and will set it up for you - get a nice dearer set up for less.

The only turntable I would say to avoid new or S/H is the Roksan Xerxes, its a nightmare to work on and maintain. With S/H make sure company still exists and there are parts available to still service it.

Buying vinyl I would stick to buying new until you get a feel for things and if the bug bites learn what to spot and do re buying S/H in shops preferably to on the net - too risky to buy S/H off ebay etc imho.



If all the above puts you of then I would say don't buy a turntable.

Hope the above is off help.


Regards Neil

[hifi_dave]

Love that last line on Hifi Dave's post :)

What's that about a new disciple ???

I had one last week. He had bought a Rega RP6 in the Spring, then came over for some cable. He spent a good ten minutes explaining and enthusing about his new found LPs. I went off, made us a cup of tea and he started again when I returned. Still, it's far better that way than moaning. He is now buying s/h vinyl at a vast rate and is about to order a RCM.

[Stubies]

PS

I used to have one of these, liked it a lot
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/BANG-OLUFSON-B-O-BEOGRAM-1102-RECORD-PLAYER-DECK-TURNTABLE-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/hsgAAOxyDLZR~SES/$(KGrHqVHJB8FHYcwGcCtBR+SERvZ!!~~60_12.JPG

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BANG-OLUFSON-B-O-BEOGRAM-1102-RECORD-PLAYER-DECK-TURNTABLE-/231027256299?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item35ca4c2beb

[Andrew B]

I'm not sure if some people just can't hear it, but there's an extra "dimension" to vinyl for me. Most CD replay has a "cardboard cut out" feel in comparison. Probably not the most accurate description, but its not the easiest thing to put across. I still enjoy CD, but I try to avoid listening to both it and vinyl in one session.

It's refreshing to know people are still finding out about the magic of vinyl, even if they are "educating" you about it afterwards ;)

[Spectral Morn]

Neil

Really useful advice for a vinyl re-newbee.

I did records a long time ago, i miss them now.

The easy way back in is a good route, if i find a nice Project Debut i will try your suggestion.

There are just too many options to consider, better keep it simple to start :))))

Glad to be of help

Regards Neil

[Stratmangler]

I'm not sure if some people just can't hear it, but there's an extra "dimension" to vinyl for me. Most CD replay has a "cardboard cut out" feel in comparison. Probably not the most accurate description, but its not the easiest thing to put across. I still enjoy CD, but I try to avoid listening to both it and vinyl in one session.

It's refreshing to know people are still finding out about the magic of vinyl, even if they are "educating" you about it afterwards ;)

The extra dimension is called DISTORTION!
All audio equipment has it, and you choose which particular flavour of it you like :)

[hifi_dave]

I'm not sure if some people just can't hear it, but there's an extra "dimension" to vinyl for me. Most CD replay has a "cardboard cut out" feel in comparison. Probably not the most accurate description, but its not the easiest thing to put across. I still enjoy CD, but I try to avoid listening to both it and vinyl in one session.

It's refreshing to know people are still finding out about the magic of vinyl, even if they are "educating" you about it afterwards ;)

"cardboard cut out" is a good description. I never, ever try to explain to people, just how good vinyl is. I just play a CD track, followed by the same track on vinyl and the job's a good'un.

[littlest hobo]

I don't think I can add anything new to what's already been said, but that's not stopped anyone else so I will carry on and put my two penneth in!

I decided to get back into vinyl after over 20 years of CD and MP3 and its ilk earlier this year. I mulled over my options for far too long and took advice from here. I kept raising my budget as I learned more and was all set to buy a Rega RP6 from HiFi Dave when I took a very rash punt on a NAS Spacedeck on eBay - I was the only bidder and it turned out to be an absolute bargain. At the same time a Mentor arm came up for sale on here, as well as a 2nd hand Grado cartridge. I had previously also purchased a Graham Slee gram phono stage from eBay.

Everyone I made 2nd hand purchases from were happy to offer advice and the couple I purchased the turntable from were absolute stars, they even offered to drive down to help me set it up properly.

Bev, what I'm getting round to saying is that it's been a steep learning curve but also a great adventure, with lots of opportunities to improve and experiment as your budget allows. I've gone a bit overboard buying new vinyl from Amazon but I'm also enjoying mooching around charity shops and borrowing albums from friends and family. I'm enjoying the whole experience so much that I've barely listened to a cd at home in the past 6 months.

Give it a go and if its not for you, you can always sell up and move on :)

[Marco]

I'll answer Bev's query later, however...


I have three sources but a savvy audiophile will have one source or two at the most.


...perhaps, but a "savvy" music lover (and audiophile) will often own multiple sources, in order to gain access to music only available on certain formats... ;)

This is precisely why I own three high-quality sources (T/T, CDP and cassette deck - and yes, in the right circumstances, the latter can sound superb), as well as a very good analogue tuner with a top-notch outdoor aerial. Live broadcasts on BBC R3, when done well, often still represent the benchmark for audiophile sound quality.

It is also why (in order to gain access to more music) I will be adding a file-based music source to my system, once I find a solution that ticks all the right boxes!

Marco.

[WOStantonCS100]

...perhaps, but a "savvy" music lover (and audiophile) will often own multiple sources, in order to gain access to music only available on certain formats... ;)

:clap: Spot on with that one!

If that's not the case, I'm quite happy not to be a "savvy" music lover. ;) :)

[John R Leddy]

I'm not sure if some people just can't hear it, but there's an extra "dimension" to vinyl for me. Most CD replay has a "cardboard cut out" feel in comparison. Probably not the most accurate description, but its not the easiest thing to put across. I still enjoy CD, but I try to avoid listening to both it and vinyl in one session.

It's refreshing to know people are still finding out about the magic of vinyl, even if they are "educating" you about it afterwards ;)

Spot on Andrew.

An excellent way of describing the difference in sound.

It was not until I purchased a 2.1 Unidisk my ears finally relaxed and I said to myself, "Now that is more like it!"

However, I agree with Chris, at least I think I may do, in thinking different presentations of music are due to the addition, or lack, of extraneous noise associated with the media containing the music and its playback hardware and software.

If a playback system and its media generated noise which covered characteristics of presentation the listener preferred not to hear, this would not mean the listener has poor judgement, or the playback system was of no use. In fact, quite possibly the exact opposite.

Likewise, a playback system lacking in noise when replaying its media, maybe should not be called more accurate than another replay system when really it is just quieter, and who is to say a lack of colouration or other artefacts must be welcomed anyway.

To be sure, I have a right bug up my arse concerning extraneous noise, and yet at the same time also possess a major dislike for what manufacturers term accuracy, which somehow translates into thin and tinny for me.

I appreciate manufacturers and retailers may find it useful when the media use absolutist terms to describe components, but in my opinion this is really just incompetent or lazy marketing.

If I accept my hearing is no different to the rest of my senses, insomuch all my senses are lacking in any form of absolute correctness, why would I consider your hi-fi system right for my ears, when it is highly unlikely your prescription for eyeglasses would be suitable for me to see correctly.

So, while I might not suffer gladly the likes of tape hiss, my perceived adoption of pleasantness in sound reproduction would not necessarily demand accuracy to the degree of sterility. I say "perceived adoption" because I have a sneaky feeling this is just my brain tricking me into thinking I am the one in control.

No matter which way I look at these considerations, one thing is for sure, the mechanics of a human body is about as useful as a chocolate teapot for setting a standard for anything, and our catastrophically useless defences against indoctrination make any sort of judgements more than a little suspect. With the best will in the world, this animal is so gullible it can be tricked into believing just about anything.

I guess at the end of the day, I am just trying to say it is completely pointless trying to force our will on others. Even if authoritative evidence is prevalent, in truth the whole exercise at best supports our illusions for such a short instant in time as to be completely futile in its relevance to just about anything.

But of course... there is always the money!

John.

[DSJR]

I'll answer Bev's query later, however...



Live broadcasts on BBC R3, when done well, often still represent the benchmark for audiophile sound quality.

It is also why (in order to gain access to more music) I will be adding a file-based music source to my system, once I find a solution that ticks all the right boxes!

Marco.

Hmm :lol: radio 3 is 13 bit PCM DIGITAL isn't it? No cardboard cutout sound here as I think Marco would agree :) I do agree with your post though :)

Andrew, sorry to be pedantic here, but original master recordings of rock and contemporary music can sound 'cardboard cut-out' and 'multi-mono' in real life, as THAT's the way they were mixed - sorry. In my experience, the worst of these NEED vinyl to blend things together! More modern recordings done and mastered properly for 'digital' will have far more perspective and a proper sense of depth and space and an increasing number of CHEAP players have been able to reproduce this for some years now, as well as Top End machines from the late 80's/early 90's.

Anyway, if the only way you can enjoy music is on vinyl, then fair enough. For me, vinyl is far more than 'just' the endearing sound it offers. I love the LPsleeves and the tactile way one has with the medium. File/cloud based streaming is fine, but I still have difficulty with screen based music choosing, if you see what I mean.

[DSJR]

PS

I used to have one of these, liked it a lot
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/BANG-OLUFSON-B-O-BEOGRAM-1102-RECORD-PLAYER-DECK-TURNTABLE-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/hsgAAOxyDLZR~SES/$(KGrHqVHJB8FHYcwGcCtBR+SERvZ!!~~60_12.JPG

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BANG-OLUFSON-B-O-BEOGRAM-1102-RECORD-PLAYER-DECK-TURNTABLE-/231027256299?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item35ca4c2beb

Those Beograms, especially the later 1700 with MMC20E or EN cartridges used in a warm room at 70 degrees F or higer, which were cheap to buy back then, were easily the equal of a Rega 2 and not much more expensive either. Sadly, the cartridges, which can now be rebuilt at SoundSmith in the US, cost a small fortune :(

[Andrew B]

Hi Dave.
I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you. I really don't know what gives CD the effect I describe. I just enjoy music better without it, whether its faithful or not. I only have my own ears to listen, so as long as it sounds good to me thats all that matters.

My musical enjoyment isn't limited to vinyl though. I own and play CDs as well as audio files. I just find that playing them alongside vinyl in the same session highlights things I dislike about CD, so I avoid doing that.

[MikeMusic]

Sorry Dave, this statement is utter tosh!

Dave's not the only one to say that

[MikeMusic]

Very interesting as I've heard many a Rega CD player and always thought they sounded bright. I compared my CDI to a few different models including a similar vintage Rega and the Naim was light years ahead from both an analogue sounding perspective and overall fun factor!

I admit I've not heard the Isis but on past experiences I would (up until now maybe) have touched it with a barge poll!

I have one and think it is wonderful

[MikeMusic]

I eventually sold the 555 for just under £6K, which was the best I could get after advertising it for a year. Obviously, that is all it is worth and is annoying, as it is the only piece of Hi-Fi I have lost money on in 40 years !!! I now have a new Naim CDX2 up at £1900, a saving of £2K. What do you reckon I will get for that ?

I don't believe Naim are trying any more as they believe the future (like Linn) is downloads.

PFM good for Naim kit ?

[MikeMusic]

I'm surprised that anybody bothers with CD players at all, never mind actually spending decent money on them :eyebrows:
I've been streaming for many a year now.

I will be honest - I did enjoy Greg's front end and amps driving revised Edingdales at the Owston meet earlier on this year, and Greg's CD player is a Naim unit.

Can't stream at home anyway
I'm not keen relying on 'the outside' as it can break

[MikeMusic]

start telling me just how good vinyl is..:doh:

The circle turns

[MikeMusic]

What's that about a new disciple ???

I had one last week. He had bought a Rega RP6 in the Spring, then came over for some cable. He spent a good ten minutes explaining and enthusing about his new found LPs. I went off, made us a cup of tea and he started again when I returned. Still, it's far better that way than moaning. He is now buying s/h vinyl at a vast rate and is about to order a RCM.

There is some justice then !

[MikeMusic]

The extra dimension is called DISTORTION!


Can't agree with that

[MikeMusic]

I'll answer Bev's query later, however...
...perhaps, but a "savvy" music lover (and audiophile) will often own multiple sources, in order to gain access to music only available on certain formats... ;)

This is precisely why I own three high-quality sources (T/T, CDP and cassette deck - and yes, in the right circumstances, the latter can sound superb), as well as a very good analogue tuner with a top-notch outdoor aerial. Live broadcasts on BBC R3, when done well, often still represent the benchmark for audiophile sound quality.

It is also why (in order to gain access to more music) I will be adding a file-based music source to my system, once I find a solution that ticks all the right boxes!

Marco.

Marco ?

Who he ?

:)

[Marco]

Hmm :lol: radio 3 is 13 bit PCM DIGITAL isn't it? No cardboard cutout sound here as I think Marco would agree

Indeed. Live broadcasts on FM, done right, reproduced through a quality vintage (analogue) tuner (forget DAB), can sound stunning, although results obtained are largely governed by how well the sound engineers have done their job, than necessarily the equipment used for broadcasting.

Therefore, my point wasn't about 'analogue vs. digital', which has been done to death, but rather, in my opinion, the necessity for any genuine music lover and audiophile to own multiple sources, in order to access their favourite music, produced on a multitude of formats.

Regardless of whether digital is 'superior' (on any level), I simply couldn't live with owning solely a digital source and thus deprive myself of all the music I love that has been released, new and old, only on vinyl - or indeed vice versa with having only a T/T.

Quite simply, if Bev would like access to that type of material, depending on her tastes in music, and particularly the joy of flicking through piles of used vinyl, sold in independent record shops and fairs, later to enjoy listening to at home, then she needs a turntable :)

Marco.

[Marco]

Marco ?

Who he ?

:)

Ya... King daftee has returned! Did you miss me, shweety? :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Graeme]

The isis owners/listeners, we talking the SS version or the valve version?
I had one (ss) at home for a while, was ok, got to do comparisons in my system between the isis, my slp1200 and my modded ps1.
Would have been nice to use the valve one but there wasnt one available at the time.

[MikeMusic]

Ya... King daftee has returned! Did you miss me, shweety? :eyebrows:

Marco.
There was some silent sobbing in corners .......

:)

[MikeMusic]

The isis owners/listeners, we talking the SS version or the valve version?
I had one (ss) at home for a while, was ok, got to do comparisons in my system between the isis, my slp1200 and my modded ps1.
Would have been nice to use the valve one but there wasnt one available at the time.
Mine is SS.
Dave's is Valve
When I spoke to a very helpful guy at Rega he said they were both good and 'different'
Common view is the valve is better

[Andrew B]

Marco:
Being completely selfish, some pics of sunny places would be a real treat :) just as long as you didn't go skiing. Can't aside snow!

[Graeme]

My system is all valve so would have been nice to compare.
I dont think anyone at rega, apart from terry, thinks much of valves LOL.

[Marco]

Marco:
Being completely selfish, some pics of sunny places would be a real treat :) just as long as you didn't go skiing. Can't aside snow!

Hi Andrew,

Lol... Worry not, dude. We took TONS of pics, some of which depict truly stunning scenery, as we drove up and over the Alps (through the Col de Mont Cenis, Col d'Iseran and Colle dell'Agnello) to and from Italy. It's just a matter of uploading them all to my comp! I'll do that at the weekend :)

Marco.

[Ninanina]

Welcome back Marco

Hope you had a super duper holiday :):)

A few years ago I had a house in France, oh how I miss it :rolleyes:

[6L6]

Quite simply, if Bev would like access to that type of material, depending on her tastes in music, and particularly the joy of flicking through piles of used vinyl, sold in independent record shops and fairs, later to enjoy listening to at home, then she needs a turntable :)

That's the best endorsement to the original question yet. Essentially the whole vinyl 'thing' is the journey. If what is described above is of no interest, then don't bother. If it sounds intriguing, then go for it.

As for audio (sound) quality, there is no doubt that much of it is dependent of the condition of the record itself, ans of course the cartridge/table/phonostage combination. The best discs with a good kit will not just sound better than digital, but will take the digital reproduction by the face, drag it down to the 9th level of Hades, rip it's throat out and leave it there to rot, afterwords ascending back to the surface where it can sing with the angels. The worst discs sound lousy and are only good for using as decoration in a 1960's-themed sleazy nightclub...

Anyway, one thing worth mentioning specifically is that there is a pretty linear price/performance ratio in turntables under about £2500. Spend more, get more performance. And inexpensive tables sound quite awful.

[walpurgis]

If you want good vinyl sound on the cheap, there are economical routes to decent vinyl replay, especially if you are practical and are willing to buy vintage/used equipment.

For instance, with a bit of hunting, for around £200 you can find and put together a Connoisseur BD1 turntable on a solid base, Rega RB250 arm and ADC XLMIII cartridge and it will sound astonishingly good. The Rega arm is towards the upper mass limit for the ADC, but it will work.

Before anybody starts knocking the BD1, I had one in use until I sold it about a year ago and it still sounded great alongside my main TT, admittedly it had a Mission 774 arm on it.

[Gazjam]

or a Lenco....

[The Grand Wazoo]

Quite simply, if you want to discover more music, old and new, you can never have too many different sources. Don't be precious about what format you buy your music in, don't limit yourself and get a TT asap.

[Beobloke]

Before anybody starts knocking the BD1,

Phew, that was close - I nearly started, luckily I saw this in time.... :D

[walpurgis]

Phew, that was close - I nearly started, luckily I saw this in time.... :D

I suspected somebody might be tempted! :)

[Audioman]

I suspected somebody might be tempted! :)

Yep, couldn't resist. It's rubbish then :lol: Realistically I wouldn't pay money for one - light platter and undersized (not supporting whole lp) IIRC. Just better alternatives (Lenco).

Paul

[walpurgis]

Yep, couldn't resist. It's rubbish then :lol: Realistically I wouldn't pay money for one - light platter and undersized (not supporting whole lp) IIRC. Just better alternatives (Lenco).

Paul

I've run a BD1 alongside an L75. The BD1 is a serious contender set up right and the smaller platter seems to have no adverse effect. I've still got a BD1 chassis unit stored away and may resurrect it just to show what these little things can do.

[Clive197]

I used to own a BD1 back in the day, just shows how good Heath Robinson was.

[Audioman]

Bev. If you are serious about getting into vinyl I would get this. You could raise the cash by selling the TQ cables (that is a serious suggestion).

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?27152-Funk-Little-Super-Deck

If you sold it on I doubt you would make a loss and perhaps Dave may be willing to negotiate on the TT. Obviously you will need a phono stage and cartridge as well. This is the sort of level where vinyl really becomes addictive and beats any CD player no matter what the cost.

Paul.

[Clive197]

Further: list of TT's I've owned in the last 43 years, in order (I think)

1. Garrard SP25
2. BD1
3. Philips (forgot the no. )
4. Pioneer PL12D
5. Thorens TD160/SME309II
6. Dual DD 704 (I think)
7. Project 2
8. Linn LP12/Ittok LVIII
9. Technics SL1210M5D/Origin Live Silver3A arm.

Do I like Analogue, Oh Yes!:)

[DSJR]

Phew, that was close - I nearly started, luckily I saw this in time.... :D

I reckon a BD1 with modern thoughts on plinths, motor isolation, plus an external supply for the vibtration-prone motor, could just work to a good quiet standard?

[hifi_dave]

So, with a quiet motor, better bearing, full size platter and solid plinth it could be good..:scratch:

[chelsea]

So, with a quiet motor, better bearing, full size platter and solid plinth it could be good..:scratch:

Bit like a 1210 then.:)

[walpurgis]

Further: list of TT's I've owned in the last 43 years, in order (I think)

1. Garrard SP25
2. BD1
3. Philips (forgot the no. )
4. Pioneer PL12D
5. Thorens TD160/SME309II
6. Dual DD 704 (I think)
7. Project 2
8. Linn LP12/Ittok LVIII
9. Technics SL1210M5D/Origin Live Silver3A arm.

Do I like Analogue, Oh Yes!:)

Clive, I'd imagine many people have been down similar routes.

My list as far as I can recall (going back to about 1971) is (not necessarily in order) as follows:

Garrards, SP25 Mk.II & Mk.IV, 301 white 2of, 401.
Micro Seiki, DD40, MB300, MB10
Connoisseur, BD1 & BD2 too many to count.
Lenco, G88, G99, L75 about six.
Toshiba, SR-370 I have two.
Thorens, TD150 four, TD160B I still have a Mk.II.
Pioneer, PL-15S, PL-12D about six, PL-61 which I still have
JVC JL-A1
Dunlop Systemdek the original one
VPI HW19
Technics SL-1800 SL-1200 2of, SL-1210
Rega Planar 3
Dual 1210
Trio KD-1033

And many others I just don't remember.

The Toshiba SR-370 is by far the best to date, it's my current TT and sounds superb.

[stupinder]

Buy a 1210 and see if you get into vinyl...whack a Denon 110 or similar on the standard arm then upgrade if you like in small jumps...
Make yourself a record cleaning machine and go out and buy lots of second hand vinyl. some will be good some will be crap but they cost pennies if you know where ot look.
I love vinyl but the missus has made her thoughts perfectly clear (http://hifipig.com/vinyl-lover-or-hater-mrs-hifi-pig-has-a-bit-of-a-rant/)

[Beobloke]

I reckon a BD1 with modern thoughts on plinths, motor isolation, plus an external supply for the vibtration-prone motor, could just work to a good quiet standard?

Probably. As long as you didn't switch it on.


Clive, I'd imagine many people have been down similar routes.

My list as far as I can recall (going back to about 1971) is (not necessarily in order) as follows:

Garrards, SP25 Mk.II & Mk.IV, 301 white 2of, 401.
Micro Seiki, DD40, MB300, MB10
Connoisseur, BD1 & BD2 too many to count.
Lenco, G88, G99, L75 about six.
Toshiba, SR-370 I have two.
Thorens, TD150 four, TD160B I still have a Mk.II.
Pioneer, PL-15S, PL-12D about six, PL-61 which I still have
JVC JL-A1
Dunlop Systemdek the original one
VPI HW19
Technics SL-1800 SL-1200 2of, SL-1210
Rega Planar 3
Dual 1210
Trio KD-1033

And many others I just don't remember.

The Toshiba SR-370 is by far the best to date, it's my current TT and sounds superb.

My list would take three hours to type and probably exceed the size limit of the thread... :D

[walpurgis]

So, with a quiet motor, better bearing, full size platter and solid plinth it could be good..:scratch:

The BD1 doesn't need any of that to deliver the goods, apart from a decent base of course, same as any turntable motor assembly.

[hifi_dave]

It was tongue in cheek.

[Audioman]

Can we have some serious suggestions instead of endless lists of crap TTs people have owned in the past. Talk about rose tinted glasses. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[chelsea]

I'd get a systemdek.
Very good little deck for £150 - £200.

[Beobloke]

Can we have some serious suggestions instead of endless lists of crap TTs people have owned in the past. Talk about rose tinted glasses. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

AHEM!

Post #79 - last paragraph...

[John R Leddy]

Can we have some serious suggestions instead of endless lists of crap TTs people have owned in the past. Talk about rose tinted glasses. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Agreed Paul.

From memory, a BD1 Kit was about £50-60 at the end of the '70s, and you could purchase a complete and new budget record deck for £80-90. Looked into BD1s at the time and could not see the point of the exercise.

Trying to remember what guys were putting in front of their A&R A60s (£160-180?)...

Here's a hotlinked image from Retro Hi-Fi:

http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/ar60r.jpg

More info can be found on their website at: http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/ar_cambrige.html

At the time most amplifiers imported from the east utilised tiny EI transformers. As can be seen in the photographs, the A60 used a toroidal transformer, and quite a few of us willingly adopted the promoted "power supply is everything" ethos. Come to think of it, I am still stuck with this idea today. May be fictional, but I seem to remember power supplies were a bit of a "thing" with British manufacturers at the time.

The A&R Cambridge A60 Integrated Amplifier was one of Britain's best budget amplifiers, costing only twice as much as an imported product. Diminutive and understated compared to gaudy and 'orrid Jap imports, it was an aspirational first step on to the British hi-fi ladder. Just look at how everyone signed-off their part of its manufacture. Brings a tear to the eye, and makes one proud to be British!

OK, enough flag waving. Which decks were sitting in front of this amp?

- & -

Before wandering off into the past, I really wanted to point out perhaps we should be careful our enthusiasm does not have readers who were not there inadvertently buying dung.

Hmm, my reverie is longer than the point I wished to make.

John.

[chelsea]

I used an original Dunlop Systemdek with my a60.

[John R Leddy]

I used an original Dunlop Systemdek with my a60.

Is that one of these, Stu?

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z415/Hugh_McKinnon/P1000060_zpsf9c516a0.jpg

[Clive197]

Can we have some serious suggestions instead of endless lists of crap TTs people have owned in the past. Talk about rose tinted glasses. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Ok,Ok keep your shirt on. My point was to the OP to encourage him to join in, analogue is a lifetime habit that can be enjoyed. How many posters have mentioned the album covers, which can give so much pleasure. It's fun and easy to flip threw album sleeves in record shops, hours of enjoyment.

[bob4333]

An interesting thread and we're all entertaining each other by regurgitating our fond memories and nightmares (not suggesting we stop), but have we really helped the OP come to any conclusion I wonder? :confused:

Bev.................?

[pjdowns]

An interesting thread and we're all entertaining each other by regurgitating our fond memories and nightmares (not suggesting we stop), but have we really helped the OP come to any conclusion I wonder? :confused:

Bev.................?

:rfl:

[MCRU]

I think she is probably laughing at you all (I would be) 19 pages of trips down memory lane, at least Bev has her better sounding system to keep her entertained while she trawls through all the pages of crap looking for 1 intelligent answer :lol:

There is no real turntable that stands out as being the best within its price bracket, I would (cos I sell em) recommend the Clearaudio Concept MM which I just took delivery of and its fully set up in the factory in germany so needs nothing doing to it apart from un-packing it. The £995 version has a moving magnet cartridge pre-installed and sounds bloody good straight from the box. Of course less expensive turntables are available for far less but horses for courses, pay more get more!

Carry on reminiscing now guys. :) Only joking with you all of course.

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/Clearaudio/choicejpg_zps776dc736.jpg

[chelsea]

Is that one of these, Stu?

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z415/Hugh_McKinnon/P1000060_zpsf9c516a0.jpg

Thats the one john.
Really liked it.

[walpurgis]

It was tongue in cheek.

I just can't bear people with strange sexual habits! :ner:

[walpurgis]

Looked into BD1s at the time and could not see the point of the exercise.

You didn't try one then?

BD1 kits were under £10 in the early seventies.

The BD1 and BD2 were very well reviewed back then. The BD2 was limited by it's arm, but the BD1 is still a good sounding TT even by modern atandards.

[twotone]

Agreed Paul.

From memory, a BD1 Kit was about £50-60 at the end of the '70s, and you could purchase a complete and new budget record deck for £80-90. Looked into BD1s at the time and could not see the point of the exercise.

Trying to remember what guys were putting in front of their A&R A60s (£160-180?)...

Here's a hotlinked image from Retro Hi-Fi:

http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/ar60r.jpg

More info can be found on their website at: http://www.retrohifi.co.uk/ar_cambrige.html

At the time most amplifiers imported from the east utilised tiny EI transformers. As can be seen in the photographs, the A60 used a toroidal transformer, and quite a few of us willingly adopted the promoted "power supply is everything" ethos. Come to think of it, I am still stuck with this idea today. May be fictional, but I seem to remember power supplies were a bit of a "thing" with British manufacturers at the time.

The A&R Cambridge A60 Integrated Amplifier was one of Britain's best budget amplifiers, costing only twice as much as an imported product. Diminutive and understated compared to gaudy and 'orrid Jap imports, it was an aspirational first step on to the British hi-fi ladder. Just look at how everyone signed-off their part of its manufacture. Brings a tear to the eye, and makes one proud to be British!

OK, enough flag waving. Which decks were sitting in front of this amp?

- & -

Before wandering off into the past, I really wanted to point out perhaps we should be careful our enthusiasm does not have readers who were not there inadvertently buying dung.

Hmm, my reverie is longer than the point I wished to make.

John.

I've a re-capped A60, recently bought, my Techincs SL1200 is feeding it into a pair of JR149s.

To me they all sound made for each other, I bought an original vinyl copy of Talk Talk's the Colour of Spring the other week, if you don't own a copy buy one, utterly sublime.

[Audioman]

I think she is probably laughing at you all (I would be) 19 pages of trips down memory lane, at least Bev has her better sounding system to keep her entertained while she trawls through all the pages of crap looking for 1 intelligent answer :lol:

There is no real turntable that stands out as being the best within its price bracket, I would (cos I sell em) recommend the Clearaudio Concept MM which I just took delivery of and its fully set up in the factory in germany so needs nothing doing to it apart from un-packing it. The £995 version has a moving magnet cartridge pre-installed and sounds bloody good straight from the box. Of course less expensive turntables are available for far less but horses for courses, pay more get more!

Carry on reminiscing now guys. :) Only joking with you all of course.

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/Clearaudio/choicejpg_zps776dc736.jpg

David - I am confused I'm sure this isn't the trade section? Damn just given you a free plug.

I would agree a lot of the old turntables mentioned are being viewed through nostalgia. The latest designs are in general superior especially from over £600. A few still stand up though if you have the necessary DIY skills to maximise their potential. For plug and play go for one of the current models. In Bev's situation this certainly rules out the BD1 though in the early seventies it was probably the cheapest way of getting a hi-fi deck (in kit form).

[MCRU]

is it not me who should be giving out free plugs :lol:

should I get a turntable was the original question, I have answered the question with a recommendation, what more does the OP need?

[The Grand Wazoo]

I have answered the question with a recommendation, what more does the OP need?

Well, actually, I don't think you did answer the question - which, as you say, was "Should I get a turntable?"
You seem to have read it as "What turntable should I get?"
The OP was interested in discussing the pros and cons of owning one - which has been done by others. I think you are the only one who posted anything with the sole intention of profiting from the 'advice' you gave.

[Marco]

I just can't bear people with strange sexual habits! :ner:

Better watch out that no-one finds those donkeys you've got hidden! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[pjdowns]

Better watch out that no-one finds those donkeys you've got hidden! :eyebrows:

Marco.

:rfl:

[Marco]

I think she is probably laughing at you all (I would be) 19 pages of trips down memory lane, at least Bev has her better sounding system to keep her entertained while she trawls through all the pages of crap looking for 1 intelligent answer :lol:


Oh I don't know, daftee. I thought that what I wrote earlier was reasonably sensible.... Chris makes a good point, btw. I'd take notice of it. Also, I'd reign-in the self-promotion a bit in areas like this which are outside of the trade room. Cheers :)

Marco.

[MCRU]

you are the boss!

see you next saturday?

[walpurgis]

Here you are Bev, this'll do you nicely :)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Continuum-Ultimate-Turntable-Caliburn-Cobra-Castellon-160-000-NEW-/300730717536?pt=US_Record_Players_Home_Turntables&hash=item4604f29560

[Stubies]

Great!

A nice starter kit ;)


Here you are Bev, this'll do you nicely :)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Continuum-Ultimate-Turntable-Caliburn-Cobra-Castellon-160-000-NEW-/300730717536?pt=US_Record_Players_Home_Turntables&hash=item4604f29560

[Spectral Morn]

David - I am confused I'm sure this isn't the trade section? Damn just given you a free plug.

I would agree a lot of the old turntables mentioned are being viewed through nostalgia. The latest designs are in general superior especially from over £600. A few still stand up though if you have the necessary DIY skills to maximise their potential. For plug and play go for one of the current models. In Bev's situation this certainly rules out the BD1 though in the early seventies it was probably the cheapest way of getting a hi-fi deck (in kit form).

Certainly Clearaudio make nice up market turntables, but when I worked for a dealer that did Clearaudio the sub £1000 ones were a tad how can one put it - safe and not really that great - average in my view. The Roksan Radius was much better in my opinion and unlike the Xerxes a stable easy to set up and maintain turntable. Funk Firm Little Super Deck also worth looking at too - though I haven't heard one.

Regards Neil

[Spectral Morn]

Well, actually, I don't think you did answer the question - which, as you say, was "Should I get a turntable?"
You seem to have read it as "What turntable should I get?"
The OP was interested in discussing the pros and cons of owning one - which has been done by others. I think you are the only one who posted anything with the sole intention of profiting from the 'advice' you gave.

Agreed a tad toooooo obvious.


Regards Neil

[Ninanina]

Here you are Bev, this'll do you nicely :)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Continuum-Ultimate-Turntable-Caliburn-Cobra-Castellon-160-000-NEW-/300730717536?pt=US_Record_Players_Home_Turntables&hash=item4604f29560

I'll take 2 :stalks:

Thanks guys for all your thoughts, nostalgic or otherwise.. I'm going to hold off looking too seriously into a turntable at the moment, but I may well come back to the idea

I think my next step may well be some sort of streaming system as I think this will give me the most new music quickly and, hopefully, least expensively. Any thoughts greatly received :):)

[chelsea]

squeezebox is more than good enough.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Logitech-Squeezebox-3-Classic-/290956245335?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Other&hash=item43be57f957

[John R Leddy]

Thanks guys for all your thoughts, nostalgic or otherwise.. I'm going to hold off looking too seriously into a turntable at the moment, but I may well come back to the idea

I think my next step may well be some sort of streaming system as I think this will give me the most new music quickly and, hopefully, least expensively. Any thoughts greatly received.

Bev,

Excellent choice.

Here are some links which may help you:

What Hi-Fi? Awards 2012

Music Streamers
http://www.whathifi.com/awards/2012/music-streamers-

Pioneer N-50
http://www.whathifi.com/review/pioneer-n-50
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Audio-Components/Hi-Fi+Audio/N-50

Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6
http://www.whathifi.com/review/cambridge-audio-stream-magic-6
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/stream-magic-6-upsampling-network-music-player

Naim NAC-N 172 XS
http://www.whathifi.com/review/naim-nac-n-172-xs
http://www.naimaudio.com/hifi-products/nac-n-172-xs

Cyrus Stream XP2-QX
http://www.whathifi.com/review/cyrus-stream-xp2-qx
http://www.cyrusaudio.com/product/streaming-music-players/stream-xp-qx

The Well-Tempered Computer

Streaming Audio Players
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/DAP.htm

Asynchronous USB 2 DACs
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_DAC_Async.htm

DSD Over USB
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_DSD.htm

DSD-Ready DACs
http://www.audiostream.com/content/dsd-ready-dacs-short-list

All the best,

John.

[Audioman]

Of course if you start looking into the cost of bespoke music servers and dacs file storage etc this can be more daunting and expensive than a vinyl set up. Most if not all of these products are a fairly standard PC in a box disguised as a piece of hi-fi equipment and at many times the cost. The only relatively economic way of doing file based audio is build it yourself, which requires rather more than basic PC user knowledge. I think a decent used TT playing vinyl is easier to get up and running, cost far less and be more musically satisfying.

Also it is notable that the recent enthusiasm for expensive cables appears to have grown with the use of digital sources. In the days of all analogue difference in wire both real and imaginary didn't appear to be such an issue. I wonder if in many cases these products are a means of masking or correcting the failings of digital sound and counteracting electrical interference caused by the digital sources in the first place?

[John R Leddy]

Of course if you start looking into the cost of bespoke music servers and dacs file storage etc this can be more daunting and expensive than a vinyl set up. Most if not all of these products are a fairly standard PC in a box disguised as a piece of hi-fi equipment and at many times the cost. The only relatively economic way of doing file based audio is build it yourself, which requires rather more than basic PC user knowledge. I think a decent used TT playing vinyl is easier to get up and running, cost far less and be more musically satisfying.

Not at all Paul.

Streaming capabilities are included in even the cheapest of 3-in-1 mini players these days. No need for anything bespoke or expensive at all as components really are just plug and play. There is no requirement to purchase a boutique outboard soundcard at extortionate cost either. Ready-built components are so inexpensive I am guessing only a dedicated enthusiast would consider self-build, and more than likely at a greater cost than an off-the-shelf product. I cannot think of any specialist PC knowledge which may be required to set up a network audio system. Things really can be as simple as plugging two items into your network.

Everything is relative Paul. You and I might have been brought up using mechanical replay equipment, but modern-day technology is based on solid state devices using software for user interaction. With the best will in the world, clunky old record decks have been surpassed through ease of use, cost, and sound quality by solid state devices years ago. We do not have to like these changes, and we are certainly not obliged to make use of these new products in our day to day lives; however facts are facts, and the world moves on with or without our approval. Whether I like it or not, using a transcription turntable in the 21st Century can only be described as old men playing with train sets.

Sorry about that, I do not like it either, but there we are.

All the best,

John.

[Macca]

Not at all Paul.

. Whether I like it or not, using a transcription turntable in the 21st Century can only be described as old men playing with train sets.

Sorry about that, I do not like it either, but there we are.

All the best,

John.

You are out of touch, John :) I agree vinyl went through a dark era about 1990 to 2000 but it is now back to being super cool again. I have some younger friends who are insanely jealous of my record collection and insist on me playing them vinyl. Only the cost and/or having young children puts them off. Lots of twenty-somethings in record shops buying vinyl now, that wasn't the case even 5 years ago. Now I agree the world turns and fashions change with it so who knows were this will go.

[Audioman]

Not at all Paul.

Streaming capabilities are included in even the cheapest of 3-in-1 mini players these days. No need for anything bespoke or expensive at all as components really are just plug and play. There is no requirement to purchase a boutique outboard soundcard at extortionate cost either. Ready-built components are so inexpensive I am guessing only a dedicated enthusiast would consider self-build, and more than likely at a greater cost than an off-the-shelf product. I cannot think of any specialist PC knowledge which may be required to set up a network audio system. Things really can be as simple as plugging two items into your network.

Everything is relative Paul. You and I might have been brought up using mechanical replay equipment, but modern-day technology is based on solid state devices using software for user interaction. With the best will in the world, clunky old record decks have been surpassed through ease of use, cost, and sound quality by solid state devices years ago. We do not have to like these changes, and we are certainly not obliged to make use of these new products in our day to day lives; however facts are facts, and the world moves on with or without our approval. Whether I like it or not, using a transcription turntable in the 21st Century can only be described as old men playing with train sets.

Sorry about that, I do not like it either, but there we are.

All the best,

John.

Streaming capabilities may be available on cheapo components but if you want file based that compares in SQ to a top notch CD or vinyl set up it's not so simple and cheap. Especially if you want the simple part in which case be prepared to throw a wedge of money on Linn/Naim/Cyrus/Meridian etc. Look at posts from members such as Tim to get some idea what is involved.

Turntables are certainly not an old man's toy and vinyl is becoming popular again with young music fans. There is nothing more straightforward than plonking a piece of vinyl on a deck and lowering the needle once everything is set up. Some people actually prefer to have a physical product for their money rather than some licence to play a series of 1's and 0's. Most of us who stuck to vinyl through the bad years did so due to using our ears and deciding that CD (and laterly digital) does not compete in sound quality terms. By this I don't mean in measured terms but by it's ability to communicate the essence of a musical performance. There alway seems to be something missing from any digital based playback system I have heard.

Paul.

[Tim]

The only relatively economic way of doing file based audio is build it yourself, which requires rather more than basic PC user knowledge.
Hmmm, might have to disagree with you somewhat here Paul?

If you want to dip your toe into file based audio most people already have the means to do it, as they wouldn't be on this forum without one . . . their own computer. Or you can buy or use an old laptop, or you can buy a custom built one from places like Tranquil PC or Quiet PC if you don't fancy tackling it yourself. It doesn't have to be hugely expensive or a named brand, our own Keith posted a superb thread here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?21573-Keith-s-new-streamer/page2) and he did this for under 100 notes! Not simple I will grant you, but not hard to learn either if you have patience, which seems to be lacking these days :scratch: You don't want a computer? . . . buy a Sonos and hook it up to a DAC or you can even hook a Synology NAS direct to a DAC and control it from an app on your mobile or tablet PC - music file storage sorted and music played at the swipe of a finger. Hard drives for storage are so cheap now its not even funny, under 50 quid for a 1TB drive, and you absolutely do not need to buy expensive fancy USB cables like those being offered elsewhere, its audio foo.

Software can all be free too . . . foobar2000 to play, EAC to rip bit perfect files and Fidelizer to tweak your operating system without changing anything permanently and its back to normal at re-boot. These steps for the greater majority of file based audio fans are sufficient and you have to go some to improve on it for sound quality per pounds spent and you won't have spent a lot of money either. If you want to go further fill your boots and buy JRiver and dBpoweramp to rip, both easier to use than the free stuff and cosmetically more appealing. Then there is JPLAY which has a huge following now. This does not have to be an expensive way to get good sound and its a very convenient way to deliver it too. You can, like anything in audio, take it as far as you want. If you like what it does you can upgrade power supplies and again these do not need to be eye wateringly expensive, buy a bench linear supply from Maplins or many other makes. If you really want to become a geek bore you can spend huge amounts but the returns you get after going beyond the above start to become negligible and you are in the realms of is it actually better of just different? But for some people good enough is just never good enough, which is fine if you consider it a hobby as that's a lot of the enjoyment for many people, the tinkering and swapping stuff around.

If fruit floats your boat buy an Apple, a second-hand MacMini, iTunes and ALAC files ripped in iTunes could not be simpler and the sound quality is superb and it looks pretty too. I don't know many people these days who cannot handle iTunes? I don't like Apple products personally, but they do make fine equipment that is very simple to use and for most people they don't need much more. There are alternative software options for Apple users too, but I don't have any experience of those but the computeraudiophile forum has a heavy Mac bias and those guys are helpful - they have a lot of analogue guys too and turntables and computers seem to live very happily together there, but then they seem to be real music lovers. You won't have every thread littered with trade adverts and recommendations from people trying to profit from their posts either.

I'll tell you what else too, for a novice who has never set up a turntable before ALL of the above is considerably easier and cheaper to do without an LP collection to hand. Your only real cost and 'sound choice preference' to consider at this early stage is the DAC, which can be had for under a hundred or buy a second-hand HRT Music Streamer, the HRT Music Streamer II+ is a very capable, simple and affordable DAC - after that the sky's the limit. DAC's do have their own sound signature, spend your money wisely and you can change your sound for far less than buying a Gucci USB cable by just changing your DAC! I'll bet you your DAC resale value outstrips your cable resale value too?

Do me a favour guys (and this is not directed at you Paul), if you don't really know what you are passing opinion on please don't keep dismissing something just because its not your cup of tea and you don't like it eh? . . its very unfair and just downright wrong. I have read posts in the last few days when people have trashed certain brand names, but their opinions were based on products they had heard in the distant past, not the ones being discussed or recommended or the latest offerings from manufacturers . . . what's that all about? Most people here know I don't like 'Apple' but it's the company I have issues with, together with its ethos, its prices and the way iTunes exploits musicians, but I would never say they don't make very highly regarded and well engineered products, because that's just not true. AoS is a subjective forum but at the very least those subjective views should be based on what you have actually experienced yourself, or can confidently recommend and give reasons why - folk can then make more informed decisions.

Bev all the help you need can be found here http://www.computeraudiophile.com/forum/ if you fancy taking this route or another excellent forum can be found here (http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/) and this is a great audio PC thread Build a dedicated Audio PC (http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1494)

Of course you could just buy a Pioneer N50 which won't break the bank and it's looks like Hi-Fi or a S/H Squeezebox Touch, which is also very good and can be improved with 'tinkering'.

And finally if you do have a turntable itch, I doubt it will go away and at some point you will want to scratch it, especially if you hang out here - so buy an affordable well regarded TT (S/H makes sense) that you can sell on later if it's not for you, there is some very good advice in this thread, when you sort the wheat from the chaff. If you have never owned a TT that itch isn't going to go away until you scratch it and listening to vinyl can be an all immersing experience for some, so I think you owe it to yourself to at least find out? Best still and I couldn't agree with Marco more on this one, don't deny yourself the pleasure of harnessing all forms of playback and then you can enjoy all forms of music. I'm looking forward to adding a TT to my system again one day as I still have a (modest) LP collection and I still buy vinyl at gigs and record store days. It will never replace my primary file based audio system as that is now very good indeed, but I have to agree with Paul here, it did take me a few years and a lot of toil to get to where I am now, but then I have enjoyed that journey immensely and its taken my enjoyment of music to a level I have never previously experienced (turntables included) and I have heard some very fine systems indeed ;)

[Audioman]

Tim.

I don't disagree with anything you have said except your assertion about anyone being capable of setting up a silent PC with a bit of patience. Firstly I was thinking in terms of achieving an SQ that would rival a good turntable or surpass most CD players. Also your costing for a simpler file based system does assume owning a suitable PC that can be used in proximity or can be networked into the hi-fi. Otherwise this is part of the cost. Also remember the majority of people still appear to be unable to stretch any further than understanding or attempting to understand the most basic of PC functions so will go for the overpriced named product every time. Convenience and quickness rules. Wholeheartedly agree with your comments on foo USB cables.

In the end of the day still think Bev has to weigh up the cost of a decent used/new TT verses a simple PC/DAC file based set up. I know the later may be more attractive since she doesn't own any LP's. In the end of the day my advice would be go and hear both a good vinyl set up and a file based set up before making a decision. I'm sure there are some members who have both rather than fall exclusively into either vinyl or music file camps. I don't have files as part of the hi-fi at present because I have no need. If in future the supply of decent CD transports and/or parts to repair dries up may have to consider files as the secondary source to vinyl.

Paul.

[Gazjam]

Good post Tim.
Its all about informed choice and someone starting out on computer audio can be easily swayed by the tide.
Thankfully lots of information out there to help, and there's some great links in your post.

Spending where it counts is key and as you say it needn't cost Linn, Naim money to get good file based source.
I believe, though, that you can get reward for taking it that extra step and it doesn't need to be in the realms of silly money or geekdom.

That exists, yes, but I feel that like most branches of audio the sweet spot is in the middle somewhere.

[Gazjam]

Building a PC that "works" is very different to building a digital audio source that does music WELL.
In a lot of ways it's cursed somewhat by being "just a computer". :scratch:

...more to it than that folks.
Two Chef's cooking the same meal, what makes one different or better?

Any computer can play music, not all sound the same.


@Bev,
I'll bet the convenience of file based music will win you over, go for it! :)

[Tim]

Any computer can play music, not all sound the same.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/thumbsup.gif (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/thumbsup.gif.html)

Like anything 'audio' it depends on how far you wish to take it, how fussy you are about the whole 'sound experience' and what your budget is - not many people are like us lot :lol:

[Clive197]

Tim, that is a wonderful articulate post and I agree with your sentiments.

I would like to add a few points. The first being about digital cables, especially USB, don't worry about expensive cables, they make no difference whatsoever to well made standard ones. The second point is about HD downloads, they are not all they sometimes say they are. Many are standard 16/44 files that have been up scaled, something a good DAC will do to your CD rips without paying extra for HiRes downloads. Having said that, there are some great HD downloads from Linn, B&W and others, with more coming on stream all the time, depending on your taste in music. Good luck and have fun.

On a personal note, I use a lot of different sources as can be seen from my signature, but at the end of the day, my heart is still analogue, I love the hands on with both media and equipment, with digital the only thing you touch invariably is the remote control.

[Gazjam]

Spot on Tim, just felt it worth pointing out though that there's improvements to be had over a basic build.
Disagree Clive on USB cables, the point of diminishing returns kicks in hard and fast but something like a sensibly priced Wireworld or Furutech cable does improve the sound imo.
You can go deep down the rabbit hole here, the thing is you may not have to.

Must admit I'm looking forward to getting back in to vinyl, for exactly the same reasons you mention Clive.
Sound wise, my current digital setup is a better than my Rega P3/1042 setup I had back in the day, but I miss having a turntable.

My visit to Owsten DIY meet this year reminded me of how good vinyl can sound and how cool it was just, well, playing records. :)
Looking forward to getting the Lenco set up and singing, should sound a BIT better than my old P3.

[John R Leddy]

You are out of touch, John :) I agree vinyl went through a dark era about 1990 to 2000 but it is now back to being super cool again. I have some younger friends who are insanely jealous of my record collection and insist on me playing them vinyl. Only the cost and/or having young children puts them off. Lots of twenty-somethings in record shops buying vinyl now, that wasn't the case even 5 years ago. Now I agree the world turns and fashions change with it so who knows were this will go.

Hi Martin,

You got me thinking there. I honestly cannot remember the last time I was in a record shop. The wife and I used to have a competition to see who could buy the cheapest CD, delivered. I do not mean junk CDs either, but something actually worth owning and having in a collection. We were buying so many CDs, so cheaply, when we received a duff one we would simply put it in the bin without giving it a second thought. To say we had a good laugh is an understatement, but we both agreed things were getting a little bit too obsessive and out of hand, so we have calmed down a bit now.

Truth be known, I miss the days of waiting for Saturday and going down the town to buy a couple of LPs. You know, raking through masses of albums and having to decide which ones I could afford this week. Like most things in Life purchased this way their value of ownership becomes increased, and their use seems to incur more enjoyment than those things too easily gained. I do not think I can isolate this to material things only, but due to time and circumstance digital storage of music has a less perceived value to me, whether it really is less valuable or not.

That said, I try my best to say things as I see them, and readily admit to my failings concerning noise in audio replay. Everything in Life is a compromise, so I guess audio hardware and music media are no different to anything else.

All the best,

John.

[John R Leddy]

Streaming capabilities may be available on cheapo components but if you want file based that compares in SQ to a top notch CD or vinyl set up it's not so simple and cheap. Especially if you want the simple part in which case be prepared to throw a wedge of money on Linn/Naim/Cyrus/Meridian etc. Look at posts from members such as Tim to get some idea what is involved.

Turntables are certainly not an old man's toy and vinyl is becoming popular again with young music fans. There is nothing more straightforward than plonking a piece of vinyl on a deck and lowering the needle once everything is set up. Some people actually prefer to have a physical product for their money rather than some licence to play a series of 1's and 0's. Most of us who stuck to vinyl through the bad years did so due to using our ears and deciding that CD (and laterly digital) does not compete in sound quality terms. By this I don't mean in measured terms but by it's ability to communicate the essence of a musical performance. There alway seems to be something missing from any digital based playback system I have heard.

Paul.

Hi Paul,

You will be pleased to know network streaming is just as simple to set up as a CD playing system, with the added bonus of providing greater sound quality at less expense. I see Tim has written quite a lengthy post which I have not yet read. I can assure you there is absolutely no need to spend a vast sum of money on a Linn, et al, network player to achieve a substantial improvement in sound quality over a good quality CD player. I sincerely hope you have not avoided streaming due to others claiming it is a complicated and expensive process, as not only would that be a shame but quite frankly a bit of a bum steer.

Here is how things worked out for me. I thought the choice of network audio players to be a bit limited and reckoned to purchase a dedicated netbook with an outboard DAC. I had even decided on which model of Acer to buy, along with a Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2. I reckoned about £2,000 should cover it to replace my £4,500 CD player. It grates on me having to state that, but there is no getting round prices for this post. So, being the miserable git that I am, the first thing I did was nab the wife's laptop and bought a £200 DAC. I rapidly came to two conclusions. Firstly, this streaming lark was not going to cost anywhere near what I thought it would; and secondly, there was no way a scabby netbook was getting anywhere near my hi-fi system. The second consideration was really just down to personal preference as, to be sure, my hi-fi components are the most industrial and ugly looking things I have ever seen.

Next stage, bought a £400 network audio player. Not bad at all. Very, very quiet allowing every last tinkle in the music to be heard. However, leaving my speakers in place and moving my listening chair, I moved it from 2/3rds room length away from the facing wall to 1/3rd distance before experiencing my taste in bass. OK, while this might have been a lazy and inaccurate way to get an idea of where my loudspeakers may have to move to, it very quickly showed the speakers would be better placed on a side wall to suit our living room layout. They were going nowhere and staying exactly where they were.

Stage three, bought a £700 network audio player. Now we're talking. We have gone from crystal clear, but personally unsatisfactory, presentation to bold as Bryston, have some that, joy! And with my listening chair back at its original 2/3rds room length position. I do not know about you guys, but my hi-fi money has to be in cash, no loans allowed, and completely separate from my very lovely but control freak wife's housekeeping money. Point is, I am currently very happy having replaced an outrageously expensive CD player with a budget network audio player-renderer-DAC. I could have spent more but those funds have now been allocated to purchasing a second amplifier so I can make my system active again. A win-win result as far as I am concerned.

So what extras were required? I bought a pair of powerline adaptors and plugged one into my player, and the other into the integrated switch within my router which lives in our box-room office. There is a catch to all this. There always is, I suppose. When I reached 1,000 album rips I became more than a little paranoid at losing, not the music itself so much, but all the time and effort I had put into my file tagging. More than a little sad, I know, but I am now seriously backed-up with music on 3 x 2TB + 1 x 4TB HDDs. The transfer from LP to CD cost me a small fortune before my ears agreed to stop complaining but, comparatively speaking, very little to move from CD to streaming audio. Somebody moving straight from LP to streaming has got it made! But that is just my opinion.

So Paul, hopefully this post has generated a more positive outlook on streaming, and with a bit of luck yourself and others will come to find, as I have, streaming really is where it's at.

All the best,

John.

[John]

My advice is a bit more left field.
It will not quite give you the streaming facilties of a computer but it will come pretty close this way is cost effective and gives excellent SQ you be able to listen to plenty of internet radio stations watch you tube films and music.
1)
Get a Blue ray dvd player that has a USB input and can do FLAC or WAV most of these players will do both, make sure the DVD player has a ethernet input some examples include the Oppo 103, Denon Blue Ray players and Sony Blue Ray players. You will have the abilty to play files, stream internet radio stations etc you also need to add a screen with HDMI input to access functions and a decent DAC (the choice is overwhelming) I personally go for the Sony unless you into movies and have a TV screen to do it justice than the Oppo wins.
Its not a audiophile route but works well gives good sound for very little bucks
:sofa:
2
Otherwise just connect your computer to a DAC and if you like what this can do there is plenty you can do to improve the sound after you do this (but mainly acts as a quick way to get you into using a computer as a way to hear music). You probarly need a usb based DAC but their plenty of good ones around. This will give you access to grooveshark and spotify to play with.
Ps
The Touch is another good way to enter this world
It might be worth starting a seperate thread Bev as now moved into streaming

[Tim]

Nowt wrong with left-field John, in fact I applaud it, its all about getting the best bang for your buck for me ;)

[hifi_dave]

All very interesting but it's supposed to be a thread about buying a turntable..:scratch:

Not that we've heard anything from Nina for a while.

[Tim]

I think it got a bit skewed David when Bev said she had decided against a turntable and wanted to go down the streaming/music server route. But John is right, perhaps a new thread would be better served, as the original question seems to have now been dealt with?

[wiicrackpot]

All very interesting but it's supposed to be a thread about buying a turntable..:scratch:

Not that we've heard anything from Nina for a while.
Your Wrong dave, the OP skewed the thread.


I think my next step may well be some sort of streaming system as I think this will give me the most new music quickly and, hopefully, least expensively. Any thoughts greatly received :):)
Evidence.

[hifi_dave]

OK, didn't see that. The thread got so long and rambling that I lost interest half way through.

[Tim]

The thread got so long and rambling that I lost interest half way through.
:lol: now that's possibly the most sensible post we have had for awhile ;)

[WOStantonCS100]

Has anyone suggested a dulcimer? Seems the sensible choice.

:sofa:

[Audioman]

Perhaps before we go any further Bev needs to make up her mind whether she wants vinyl or music files. She might have set her mind on that Dulcimer by now. :lol:

[chelsea]

Get both.
Squeezebox and a systemdek.

£250 for the pair.

[John R Leddy]

...I lost interest half way through.

Excellent!

Nice one Dave. An absolute cracker.

You can take the dealer out of the '70s, but you cannot take the '70s out of the dealer!

Something else.

John.

[Tim]

Excellent!

Nice one Dave. An absolute cracker.

You can take the dealer out of the '70s, but you cannot take the '70s out of the dealer!

Something else.

John.
That's rather unfair and a little uncalled for John - David does have a point you know, as it was a turntable thread originally?

[John R Leddy]

That's rather unfair and a little uncalled for John - David does have a point you know, as it was a turntable thread originally?

Oh! You mean he was serious. Sorry, I thought he was joking. Now I am worried.

[synsei]

I think it important to remember that just because a member is a dealer that doesn't exclude them from having an opinion and an interest in hifi. Actually I wouldn't do business with a dealer who didn't...

[Gordon Steadman]

I think it important to remember that just because a member is a dealer that doesn't exclude them from having an opinion and an interest in hifi. Actually I wouldn't do business with a dealer who didn't...

True but......... at the back of the mind some of us can't help feeling that there is, at least, the possibility that there could be an ulterior motive for any opinions given. Maybe unfair on the dealer, who may well be an enthusiast, but its a fact of life.

[Tim]

I think that perhaps some 'dealers' on AoS can give others a bad name and perhaps note should be made of the actual contributions each member makes to the forum, before judging them all the same?

In the interests of transparency can I say that I have purchased from David and I would happily do so again and again. I have found him to be nothing but a perfect gent, being both helpful and knowledgeable, I am also pretty sure he knows his onions and as far as my experiences are concerned his advice has been bang on each time. I read David's posts on other forums too and this pattern is repeated and I would definitely call him an enthusiast - in the true sense of the word. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him to any of my friends either, as I would Mark Grant - so make of that what you will and I'm a fussy bugger too ;)

Anyway, I'm done for now, time for a break to get some things done that have been backed up for far too long.

[chelsea]

I think it important to remember that just because a member is a dealer that doesn't exclude them from having an opinion and an interest in hifi. Actually I wouldn't do business with a dealer who didn't...

....Of course.....but sometimes it is so blatant it becomes embarrassing

[Audioman]

Excellent!

Nice one Dave. An absolute cracker.

You can take the dealer out of the '70s, but you cannot take the '70s out of the dealer!

Something else.

John.

John. Don't confuse Dave with certain other dealers on here. I also detect a rather intolerant attitude here to those who favour methods of reproduction pre the digital era. You are rather jumping to conclusions about peoples attitudes as you did with my post on computer audio. I did not say it was not simple if you bought of the shelf or that decent SQ can't be had for less than a Linn DS for example. Just to do it and achieve top sound economically does involve some configuring of computers with at least software installation or even a knowledge of hardware. As you discovered you had to spend rather more than at first imagined to get acceptable sound from an off the shelf product. My mind is not closed to files as a music source but for serious listening I can at present source and play anything I want on vinyl and CD formats. I rather prefer to spend money on something physical rather than a licence to play a file. Would sooner spend money on improving my 'train set' as you put it and achieve a genuine improvement in sound rather than an additional source with at best a slight sidestep in sound quality. I hope that clarifies where I stand on the subject and I have heard file based systems and been surprised how good they can sound.

Paul.

[synsei]

....Of course.....but sometimes it is so blatant it becomes embarrassing

Stu, where does one strike a balance then? Despite Richard Dunne's copious rants on the subject most dealers are only out to make a reasonable living from their 'interest', the fact that this retail framework rubs a few peeps up the wrong way is neither here nor there, it's just personal opinion after all. Online forums are a virtual club in many ways where enthusiasts meet to discuss their hobby and help each other out. Some of those enthusiasts also happen to be traders, and yet they are no less interested in the subject than your average Joe (sry Joe, I don't mean you of course ;)). Transport that picture to a real venue and would you really expect a member who is also a trader to refrain from discussing their range at all? If a dealer does go too far then of course something needs to be done about it however I wouldn't place Dave in that category...

[guy]

Transport that picture to a real venue and would you really expect a member who is also a trader to refrain from discussing their range at all? If a dealer does go too far then of course something needs to be done about it however I wouldn't place Dave in that category...

Hi Synsei,

You are correct. From what I have seen Dave comes across as having a genuine interest in Music and its reproduction.

Unfortunately, there are dealers who use every opportunity (engineered or not?) to tout their wares. As you suggest something needs to be done about it, but what? and by whom?

You consider this "retail framework" rubbing people up the wrong way to be neither here nor there. I would suggest that the blatant shilling which goes on to be damaging to the likes of traders who happen to be genuine enthusiasts, the hobby and to the industry.

Guy.

[synsei]

Hi Synsei,

You are correct. From what I have seen Dave comes across as having a genuine interest in Music and its reproduction.

Unfortunately, there are dealers who use every opportunity (engineered or not?) to tout their wares. As you suggest something needs to be done about it, but what? and by whom?

You consider this "retail framework" rubbing people up the wrong way to be neither here nor there. I would suggest that the blatant shilling which goes on to be damaging to the likes of traders who happen to be genuine enthusiasts, the hobby and to the industry.

Guy.

It's simple really Guy, if one feels that a 'trader' is being just a wee bit pushy then don't use their services if it offends. If enough people feel the same way then one of two things must happen, either the trader will see the error of their ways and curb their enthusiasm or eventually they will go under through lack of business ;)

[WOStantonCS100]

Everything is relative Paul. You and I might have been brought up using mechanical replay equipment, but modern-day technology is based on solid state devices using software for user interaction. With the best will in the world, clunky old record decks have been surpassed through ease of use, cost, and sound quality by solid state devices years ago. We do not have to like these changes, and we are certainly not obliged to make use of these new products in our day to day lives; however facts are facts, and the world moves on with or without our approval. Whether I like it or not, using a transcription turntable in the 21st Century can only be described as old men playing with train sets.

Sorry about that, I do not like it either, but there we are.

Apparently, I live in the absolute polar opposite reality.

I mean, let's be honest. It wasn't old buggers who kept vinyl alive in the dark era (as described below). It was young hip hop, dance, rap DJ's. Shoot, they can easily be credited as a major reason why the SL-1200MK2 stayed in production for as long as it did.


You are out of touch, John :) I agree vinyl went through a dark era about 1990 to 2000 but it is now back to being super cool again. I have some younger friends who are insanely jealous of my record collection and insist on me playing them vinyl. Only the cost and/or having young children puts them off. Lots of twenty-somethings in record shops buying vinyl now, that wasn't the case even 5 years ago. Now I agree the world turns and fashions change with it so who knows were this will go.

That most certainly echoes my experience in record shops over the past few years. As a matter of fact, I don't enjoy record shopping as much as I used to; because, especially on the weekends, the record shops I frequent (one of which only sells new issues and reissues) are full to the brim with people. Most of these people are young people, girls and guys, and the "old men" are easily outnumbered.

Young people today are smarter and have more discerning ears than we give them credit for. They embrace what ever technology, old or new, they feel gives them what they want. Eaves dropping on the average conversation goes something like: downloading - awesome for portability and convenience, a bonus if included in the LP; vinyl - more pleasing to the ear and an all around greater experience.

I really don't care what they think 'cause they're clogging up the isles so much that I do more online shopping for vinyl than I ever have before just to avoid the crowd. :)

[Gordon Steadman]

Everything is relative Paul. You and I might have been brought up using mechanical replay equipment, but modern-day technology is based on solid state devices using software for user interaction. With the best will in the world, clunky old record decks have been surpassed through ease of use, cost, and sound quality by solid state devices years ago. We do not have to like these changes, and we are certainly not obliged to make use of these new products in our day to day lives; however facts are facts, and the world moves on with or without our approval. Whether I like it or not, using a transcription turntable in the 21st Century can only be described as old men playing with train sets.

This, of course, is complete nonsense. I have yet to hear any SS amps or computer based system that is as good at making 'music' (not just making nice noises) as a good TT and a valve amp!!.

The bit that really annoys me though, is the train set bit. Anyone, young or old, that would accuse me of such a thing is likely to get a visit from the boys. Anyone with any soul, spirit or life in them, will have had a slot racing set - and I'm not talking about those rubbish Scalectrix toys:ner:.

Who on earth would get any enjoyment from watching old puffers just going round and round?

[Audio Al]

I'll take 2 :stalks:

Thanks guys for all your thoughts, nostalgic or otherwise.. I'm going to hold off looking too seriously into a turntable at the moment, but I may well come back to the idea

I think my next step may well be some sort of streaming system as I think this will give me the most new music quickly and, hopefully, least expensively. Any thoughts greatly received :):)


OH dear that's a shame :(

I now have a TT in its original box that I was going to offer you the loan of for a month if you covered the shipping costs both ways

One of the good things is obtaining LP's, gets you out of the house in the open having a walk and a rummage around the boot sales and charity shops , and LP's are as cheap as chips , from 50p each and even less if you buy in bulk :D

No need now you are looking at the streaming route , unless you have a change of mind

[Gordon Steadman]

[QUOTE=Tim;469582]Hmmm, I wasn't going to comment any further, but I couldn't let this one go and I must have missed it first time around... promise this will be the last time ;)

John, you do realise where you are don't you? This is predominately an analogue forum where the greater majority of the members enjoy vinyl playback and many, many of those also embrace all formats including file based audio, but vinyl is where their heart is. It really genuinely does give them pleasure and music alone is not the whole picture, which I am not sure you are seeing? Your 'train set' comment is quite amusing if you can take it tongue in cheek, but it could also be considered as rather condescending.

/QUOTE]

The thing is that not all vynil fans enjoy the experience the way you suggest. I find all the faffing about to be a right pain and use the Mac and iTunes most of the time - for background or casual listening - just because of the convenience. Yes, the sound is good and I do enjoy it but.........for serious listening, its into the main room in front of the Quads and Leak and get immersed. I usually need my wife to remind me that its early morning and the neighbours want to go to sleep.

No matter how much I would want it to, I have never had that experience with file based stuff. If you can, fine, but don't assume that we (music fans) are all the same and like the whole process as much as the music, it just ain't true. It also just as condescending as the 'train set'

[Macca]

I don't see this as a primarily analogue or vintage forum. It is just an audio forum and the digital section is pretty active. I think most members here are happy to try alternative sources, from shellac records to RTR to minidisc to streaming and all points in between. I like my vinyl sound, I also play a lot of music on CD. I'd quite happily set up a streaming system if there was a monthly subscription service with a good choice and good quality (Spotify currently doesn't cut it for me in the SQ, unfortunately). And I'm not interested in ripping my CDs to a hard drive because that would be a right pain and I don't see any gain to be had except to clear a few shelves of a bookcase. Otherwise I will be all for it when the service I want appears. I'm sure it will happen at some point.

[walpurgis]

Why are people getting excited.

The conversation, having wandered from the point of the thread a bit, it's now just a little debate about the pros & cons of various media. Hardly something to get hot under the collar about. Perhaps seeing a personal slight in commentary does not help. Lighten up or say nothing, that might work.

As for anybody getting "a visit from the boys". Oh come on!

[Trumpton_Rioter]

Why are people getting excited.

As for anybody getting "a visit from the boys". Oh come on!

Exactly, it personal choice how someone decides to play the music they love to hear

I was wondering who exactly are "the boys"? - the Mitchel brothers!!!!!!

Or in my case it would be a visit from "the boyo's" carrying leeks instead of baseball bats :lol:

[chelsea]

One of the good things is obtaining LP's, gets you out of the house in the open having a walk and a rummage around the boot sales and charity shops , and LP's are as cheap as chips , from 50p each and even less if you buy in bulk :D



This is one of the best bits about vinyl,it actually gets you out and about .


The joy of finding some undiscovered gem is priceless.

I use a squeezebox which i think is brilliant.
Wouldn't want it to be my only source though.

[MCRU]

I mean what would the point be of going out shopping with the wife and kids (or wife or girlfriend) if you couldn't sneak off to a few charity shops to seek out some vinyl, my last outing was Chester about 3-4 weeks ago, I walked by a totally unassuming shop that had a small 7" single in the bottom corner of the window, intrigued I went in and they had about 5 racks of LP's, most up my street 80's funk and soul and electronic thompson twins, depeche mode etc, I came out with about 30 LP's, not been that excited for quite a long time!