View Full Version : Couriers.
realysm42
25-07-2013, 18:08
Sub human, life wasting cretins; stop breathing my oxygen.
That is all.
This made me LOL - but I tend to agree for the majority, no, all bloody Couriers!
Gordon Steadman
25-07-2013, 18:17
Aha, is that what Couries are!!
Perhaps I've been lucky but whenever I had had stuff delivered from the UK to here, its been quick, on time and in good condition.
Sorry to hear that you have obviously had bad experiences.
Clothears
25-07-2013, 18:18
Oh thanks a lot.
Say hello to your resident forum courier :(
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Oh and don't even get me started on Yodel, they are total and utter shit on a good day, and unfortunately I've never experienced one of their good days!!!!
Oh thanks a lot.
Say hello to your resident forum courier :(
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Please tell me you don't work for Yodel????? :lol:
Clothears
25-07-2013, 18:22
Please tell me you don't work for Yodel????? :lol:
Wash your mouth out, I've got standards you know!
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realysm42
25-07-2013, 18:32
Sorry cloth ears, just commenting on my past 3 experiences with them.
1 was on time, but came damaged (=1 month of stress)
1 was a day late, so weekend without sound. When it did turn up, the front plate of my £6k amp was loose. Diy Is fun.
Currently another is a fucking day late and can't track the delivery by my post code as the couriers not arrived yet. WHY WOULD I CALL THEM IF THE COURIER HAD MADE THE DELIVERY?! Fundamentally broken system, this isn't 1920.
And a waste of a days holiday for me.
Wankers.
At least they're consistent.
Many years ago I was a despatch rider in London. The most crazy job I ever did (and the most hated by others) and regard myself as lucky for getting out of it without any serious injuries. I seen people do some crazy things
realysm42
25-07-2013, 18:36
I used to work for Philips customer service and had to mediate for a courier, the guy on the phone was going to beat the shit out of him.
I understand that that the people on the phone can't help the traffic and situations, but they have no sort of system in place or training to help their customers.
Aha, is that what Couries are!!
Perhaps I've been lucky but whenever I had had stuff delivered from the UK to here, its been quick, on time and in good condition.
Sorry to hear that you have obviously had bad experiences.
+1, but that might be down to the bombproof packaging I've generally been lucky enough to receive things in.
By converse, I delivered a delicate bubble wrapped and boxed Audio Research CD1 to a buyer today precisely to avoid the tender mercies of Arseholeforce and their ilk. Would you believe that something broke even with the air-cushioned Range Rover chauffeur service I treated it to (and no, I wasn't hooning around)? :doh::steam:
Peter
Clothears
25-07-2013, 18:38
No offence taken, I just get pissed off when we all get tarred with the same brush.
I also see the other side of the coin, customers eh, what a bunch of tossers :)
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realysm42
25-07-2013, 18:43
Tbh, I'd never speak to a courier like that in person (unless they earnt it). Not to say that im a passive-aggressive twat, i cant judge him/her as i dont know the score, but its the situation that frustrates me and everyone needs a scapegoat.
Its not good enough.
walpurgis
25-07-2013, 18:52
I've had stuff arrive damaged, but in each instance it's been down to hopeless packaging. Some people just have no clue!
For instance, I had a reasonably heavy, full size MiniDisc deck sent to me, rattling about loose, without packing/padding, in a thin cardboard box that was larger than the item. Surprisingly, it arrived unscathed, sheer luck!
I have no axe to grind with couriers, carriers or the post office, as none of the many well labeled and sturdily packed items I've sent has ever been damaged or lost.
bobbasrah
25-07-2013, 19:20
Aha, is that what Couries are!!
Perhaps I've been lucky but whenever I had had stuff delivered from the UK to here, its been quick, on time and in good condition.
Sorry to hear that you have obviously had bad experiences.
Agreed Gordon, had stuff delivered from all over including the UK to Romania, fast, efficient, communicative, not a single problem, ever. Only if I am out of the country it can get a bit iffy for girlfriend to take delivery, but that is understandable, and quickly solved by phone call or fax.
Ironically, only trouble I had in last 10 years was from UK to UK, so have to guess it must be a home based issue in a competitive market...
Wash your mouth out, I've got standards you know!
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That is good Dave, they are bloody nightmares :(
Tbh, I'd never speak to a courier like that in person (unless they earnt it). Not to say that im a passive-aggressive twat, i cant judge him/her as i dont know the score, but its the situation that frustrates me and everyone needs a scapegoat.
Its not good enough.
Here here in everything you've said in this post!!
Agreed Gordon, had stuff delivered from all over including the UK to Romania, fast, efficient, communicative, not a single problem, ever. Only if I am out of the country it can get a bit iffy for girlfriend to take delivery, but that is understandable, and quickly solved by phone call or fax.
Ironically, only trouble I had in last 10 years was from UK to UK, so have to guess it must be a home based issue in a competitive market...
Bob,
I agree. The real frustration with couriered stuff IMO is the alleged HMRC "service". If you track your parcel from the US or Australia, you can see that they sit on stuff for days on end quite often. It's not as if the ones processing parcels have anything else to do. The manifest process is largely automated and has already told them what duty and VAT to levy. It surely can't take 5-6 days to check for contraband. At least, Italy apart, it doesn't elsewhere.
And of course, it is UPS or whoever, who gets it in the neck for the delay.
Peter
realysm42
25-07-2013, 19:53
Ironically, only trouble I had in last 10 years was from UK to UK, so have to guess it must be a home based issue in a competitive market...
If only.
I agree with the rest though, that's the only time I've had issue(s).
I mostly get my parcels from Ups, Fed-ex and the best for times is DPD...they at least send you a email with a 1 hr slot...even the dreaded parcelforce are usually efficient here....as said elsewhere it is more often the people packing that cause the problems
I have to say the standard of packaging I've seen from members I've dealt with on AoS has been outstanding ;)
I have to say the standard of packaging I've seen from members I've dealt with on AoS has been outstanding ;)
That's good to know Dave :)
I have to say the standard of packaging I've seen from members I've dealt with on AoS has been outstanding ;)
As a buyer I agree! I'll leave it to others to comment on the packaging used when I have sent something out - but there have been no complaints; quite the reverse in fact.
julesd68
25-07-2013, 22:57
I had a courier 'classic' a couple of weeks ago.
They couldn't deliver my cd player on the due day because of a 'glass door'. Well that's the glass door to our apartment block - there is an intercom right next to it which no one else has ever failed to notice ... :doh:
walpurgis
25-07-2013, 23:13
Well I saw it! :)
I had a courier 'classic' a couple of weeks ago.
They couldn't deliver my cd player on the due day because of a 'glass door'. Well that's the glass door to our apartment block - there is an intercom right next to it which no one else has ever failed to notice ... :doh:
Yeah that reminds me of a time when we didn't get a delivery as 'our house didn't exist'... interesting how the very same driver I'd seen drive past our house two minutes before and didn't even stop.. just drove up the hill opposite my house!! .... rare
Clothears
26-07-2013, 06:09
You should all move to Huddersfield (my patch) and you will get top class service :lol:
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Oldpinkman
26-07-2013, 06:46
Oh bother
Royal Mail received my gramaphone needle from Arizona at 12.04 this morning and will notify me (by mail I presume) of the customs charges I must pay. I am going to be in France for the next 30 days....
I just never get lucky with carriers :(
realysm42
26-07-2013, 06:49
It will be by letter. However I'm sure you can ring them and pay over the phone.
I had to do it by phone because their web portal was broken when I used it. HTH.
Come on then couriers, I've used another day of holiday, don't make it 4/4, please.
I can't stand waiting...
MikeMusic
26-07-2013, 06:54
Our guys are good, certainly the best we've ever used
We ship tons internationally and recently switched to using them for UK overnight and vans as well.
The odd hiccup, often on the way to being sorted before we find out
The rest ?
TNT are the least worst but wound me up too far to carry on using them
realysm42
26-07-2013, 07:14
That's more like it, got a call from ups saying they'd deliver at about ten.
System nearly complete now...
MikeMusic
26-07-2013, 07:54
Oh thanks a lot.
Say hello to your resident forum courier :(
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Like so many areas of business it's difficult to find a good one.
When you do grab with both hands.
MikeMusic
26-07-2013, 07:56
You should all move to Huddersfield (my patch) and you will get top class service :lol:
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So often it is the individual that provides the service against all odds (ie the system)
MikeMusic
26-07-2013, 07:58
Oh bother
Royal Mail received my gramaphone needle from Arizona at 12.04 this morning and will notify me (by mail I presume) of the customs charges I must pay. I am going to be in France for the next 30 days....
I just never get lucky with carriers :(
Get the tracking number, go to the PF website find it and pay customs.
Delivery next (working) day, possibly Saturday of you pay more
MikeMusic
26-07-2013, 08:00
That's more like it, got a call from ups saying they'd deliver at about ten.
System nearly complete now...
Xerox use UPS for some of their paper deliveries.
The boxes always look like they have been abused. Often the material inside is damaged.
The guy delivering drops them on the ground, sometimes on the corner which means some of the material is unusable
Oldpinkman
26-07-2013, 08:24
Get the tracking number, go to the PF website find it and pay customs.
Delivery next (working) day, possibly Saturday of you pay more
Brilliant!!!!! Thanks Mike. Will do :)
realysm42
26-07-2013, 10:04
Xerox use UPS for some of their paper deliveries.
The boxes always look like they have been abused. Often the material inside is damaged.
The guy delivering drops them on the ground, sometimes on the corner which means some of the material is unusable
Knowing that makes me feel a whole lot better, cheers.
MikeMusic
26-07-2013, 10:15
Knowing that makes me feel a whole lot better, cheers.
I think you'll be ok.
It's the weight of the paper they don't seem to like - that weight has lots of energy from 3' up when dropped, hitting concrete and crushing the corner of the box
realysm42
26-07-2013, 11:30
Ah splendid!
Mike, I take my hat off to you.
Not only late, but one of the new speakers is fucking damaged. As I said, nothing if not consistent.
MikeMusic
26-07-2013, 11:51
Ah splendid!
Mike, I take my hat off to you.
Not only late, but one of the new speakers is fucking damaged. As I said, nothing if not consistent.
Shit. What a PITA
We used UPS international for a few years but gave up because we felt everything about them was cheap.
Wonder how they treat their staff.......
Gordon Steadman
26-07-2013, 11:56
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2378393/Watch-FedEx-worker-THROWING-dozens-packages-truck.html
Does this need a comment?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2378393/Watch-FedEx-worker-THROWING-dozens-packages-truck.html
Does this need a comment?
Yes but I doubt it'd be appropriate on this forum!!!
MikeMusic
26-07-2013, 12:29
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2378393/Watch-FedEx-worker-THROWING-dozens-packages-truck.html
Does this need a comment?
In his defence .....
Often it won't matter if light packages
but this is why we pack our heavy for size books, binders and various printed items in specially designed, triple lined, double thickness boxes with *no* air space for the lumps to move around in, then tape over all open edges.
I worked out the best size and maximum weight then tested, dropping boxes off a mezzanine onto a concrete floor - if they can take that.......
realysm42
26-07-2013, 13:05
I was given a sample of what ups are like to work for:
The driver told me today (that he shouldn't tell me this) but the reason I didn't get my delivery was the driver jumped out of his van and quit on the spot.
The only reason he told me is because he's leaving tomorrow!
Enough said.
Still, the speakers are absolutely amazing; I'm going to start my system thread tonight :)
Its almost good enough to stop changing :eyebrows:
MikeMusic
26-07-2013, 13:17
I've heard pretty bad stuff about TNT from someone who worked in Byfleet, and they are the least worst from our experience.
Are the speakers working ok ?
The problem here is that it only takes one or two bad Apples to spoil the entire box. I'm sure there are courier workers out there who take great pride in doing their job to the best of their ability, however good practice isn't newsworthy, is it? Also, with the current economic climate being the way it is, many companies are currently on an efficiency drive to shave costs. Because of this hard decisions are often taken by management which can lead to the worker on the ground thinking that the management doesn't care, this rubs off on the troops and as a result standards can slip...
The problem here is that it only takes one or two bad Apples to spoil the entire box. I'm sure there are courier workers out there who take great pride in doing their job to the best of their ability, however good practice isn't newsworthy, is it? Also, with the current economic climate being the way it is, many companies are currently on an efficiency drive to shave costs. Because of this hard decisions are often taken by management which can lead to the worker on the ground thinking that the management doesn't care, this rubs off on the troops and as a result standards can slip...
Dave
I agree with all that.
Several drivers have also told me that their firms also load at least two too many deliveries onto every route for the time available, so the drivers are also stressed and apt to cut corners.
FWIW, I always pay a premium to fly with decent airlines because the cheaper airlines treat their pilots this way...and I think a healthy pilot is more likely to get me to my destination safely than a stressed one, and less likely to take unacceptable risks. Maybe we should apply the same logic to our kit.
Peter
bobbasrah
26-07-2013, 13:41
Well said Dave
MikeMusic
26-07-2013, 13:42
The problem here is that it only takes one or two bad Apples to spoil the entire box. I'm sure there are courier workers out there
Agreed. Only takes one Muppett in the chain to break a parcel
A top man from DHL on Undercover Boss showed some good people as often fighting a system that was imperfect
julesd68
26-07-2013, 13:42
Worth checking out this thread on Wigwam about GTI Distribution offering their services to transport your hi-fi.
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?88695-Courier-Delivery
Customers so far seem very happy ...
realysm42
26-07-2013, 14:08
The speakers are fantastic, honestly its like the amp upgrade, I didn't know what I was missing until I heard it in the chain :cool:
And they're not set up properly yet, still got to attach the cast iron bases and spikes, last time this made a huge difference to the overall focus of the sound.
BTW, this thread is about my general frustration about those bad apples Dave, you're right, generally good practice isn't reported. And I apologise for the swearing etc, but I was so angry (and powerless) earlier.
S'ok Martin, I do understand mate as I have been there myself. Sometimes we just need to rant ;)
The problem here is that it only takes one or two bad Apples to spoil the entire box. I'm sure there are courier workers out there who take great pride in doing their job to the best of their ability, however good practice isn't newsworthy, is it? Also, with the current economic climate being the way it is, many companies are currently on an efficiency drive to shave costs. Because of this hard decisions are often taken by management which can lead to the worker on the ground thinking that the management doesn't care, this rubs off on the troops and as a result standards can slip...
Here here Dave!
MikeMusic
26-07-2013, 14:52
The speakers are fantastic, honestly its like the amp upgrade, I didn't know what I was missing until I heard it in the chain
Wait till you hear Isobariks !
:)
Wait till you hear Isobariks !
:)
Are they that good Mike? I have never heard them but I would love to one day :)
Are they that good Mike? I have never heard them but I would love to one day :)
Only after they have been dropped four feet off a tailgate:lol:
Only after they have been dropped four feet off a tailgate:lol:
:rfl:
realysm42
26-07-2013, 15:32
Wait till you hear mine :eyebrows:
Wait till you hear mine :eyebrows:
What you got Martin??
realysm42
26-07-2013, 15:46
All will be revealed shortly Paul, pictures speak a thousand words, right?
Neil? are you responding to me? or am I being :doh:
Oldpinkman
26-07-2013, 15:51
Many Many thanks to Mike for the advice
Picked it up today. Will drool on another thread :)
Now totally confused LOL :confused:
realysm42
26-07-2013, 16:09
Paul, forgive me, been a stressful week for me, my fault.
Paul, forgive me, been a stressful week for me, my fault.
No problems Martin - I look forward to the pics of your new speakers :)
I've said this before but any trade members wanting a reliable UK service should contact me, you can have my direct line I will personally sort any problems. I don't make any commission btw.
I've said this before but any trade members wanting a reliable UK service should contact me, you can have my direct line I will personally sort any problems. I don't make any commission btw.
Sounds like a good offer to me, what about Private sales?
Sounds like a good offer to me, what about Private sales?
Sorry Paul, it's B2B only in the UK.
Sorry Paul, it's B2B only in the UK.
Fair enough :(
There is a lot of competition in the UK and you would think that this would drive up standards but it doesn't because price is normally the overriding factor ( and the margins are tiny - it's a volume business). I've had a few customers go elsewhere due to cheaper quotes only to come back a couple of months (or just weeks) later. The reason being that it was not unusual that no-one turned up to collect their shipments. I suppose if they haven't collected it in the first place at least they can't lose it, damage it or deliver it to the wrong place ;) But talk about falling at the first hurdle. Eventually these people learn that you only get what you pay for.
MikeMusic
26-07-2013, 17:05
Are they that good Mike? I have never heard them but I would love to one day :)
I think they are great.
They have remained while huge amounts of kit and cables have been changed in the system.
They just got better and better
You can't be far away in Berkshire. Want to hear them sing sometime ?
Eventually these people learn that you only get what you pay for.
I think the same could be said for most industries Martin, I know in IT, everyone appears to want the services for free or as near as possible and there are a number of companies that will meet the near impossible targets, but they won't perform nearly as good as if the customer was willing to pay a little more!!
I think the same could be said for most industries Martin, I know in IT, everyone appears to want the services for free or as near as possible and there are a number of companies that will meet the near impossible targets, but they won't perform nearly as good as if the customer was willing to pay a little more!!
I didn't realise Cousin IT had his own business, he's doing well for himself since he left The Addams Family... :D
Right, I'm going to stop now before my spleen rushes up through my digestive system and attempts to throttle me... ;)
Clothears
26-07-2013, 18:10
Well I'm back home now after a fun day throwing packages about, being late on purpose etc. etc..... (... only joking ).
A few weeks ago I picked up a Naim NDX Network player from someone who'd bought it to send over to his brother in New Zealand or somewhere like that as it was considerably cheaper that way, even taking the shipping costs into consideration. I had to smile when he asked me to be careful with it, as though I was taking it all the way there myself. I explained I would be extremely careful with it on my leg of the journey but that it would probably pass through another 20 or 30 different pairs of hands before it reached the other side of the world.
In the past I've been to a collection where someone was shipping a pair of floorstanders to Europe, wrapped in nothing more than brown paper! Needless to say I didn't pick them up, politely explaining why.
BTW over the years I've seen some lovely systems in various houses. That holds me up because I get chatting and drooling :)
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MikeMusic
27-07-2013, 08:46
Eventually these people learn that you only get what you pay for.
Often but not always.
We have moved suppliers over the years and found that
1. cheap can be a disaster
2. we were paying too much
Lean manufacturing, Kaizen and the like can make massive improvements in efficiency and an efficient supplier can be a cheap and profitable one.
However when it comes to overnight I think too cheap is most likely to be a disaster
MikeMusic
27-07-2013, 08:50
I think the same could be said for most industries Martin, I know in IT, everyone appears to want the services for free or as near as possible and there are a number of companies that will meet the near impossible targets, but they won't perform nearly as good as if the customer was willing to pay a little more!!
I've settled with 2 guys for IT
Jim Bissett gives me advice for buying and on things I don't know. Prices are good but beatable - don't care
Matt Walker supports the systems, usually remotely now. Price again good and I assume beatable, but he's there 98% of the time when we need him.
We do a fair bit of IT ourselves, but know when we're beaten
Happy to pass on either details for anyone who is interested as I know how many poor IT people are out there
MikeMusic
27-07-2013, 08:53
Well I'm back home now after a fun day throwing packages about, being late on purpose etc. etc..... (... only joking ).
A few weeks ago I picked up a Naim NDX Network player from someone who'd bought it to send over to his brother in New Zealand or somewhere like that as it was considerably cheaper that way, even taking the shipping costs into consideration. I had to smile when he asked me to be careful with it, as though I was taking it all the way there myself. I explained I would be extremely careful with it on my leg of the journey but that it would probably pass through another 20 or 30 different pairs of hands before it reached the other side of the world.
In the past I've been to a collection where someone was shipping a pair of floorstanders to Europe, wrapped in nothing more than brown paper! Needless to say I didn't pick them up, politely explaining why.
BTW over the years I've seen some lovely systems in various houses. That holds me up because I get chatting and drooling :)
.
And a good day for you as you did 'the right thing'
Being a bit slow on the uptake I realised last year the reason I come to work is to 'do the right thing'.
It's the same reason I left the print company I was working for to set this one up
Same reason I left Xerox
I was doing the wrong thing there, for me and for the punters.
Making plenty of money, but that soon loses it's shine
realysm42
27-07-2013, 08:56
Mike, I use lean as my Job in the council, I facilitate rapid improvement events.
@clothears what were they bloody thinking?!
MikeMusic
27-07-2013, 09:39
Mike, I use lean as my Job in the council, I facilitate rapid improvement events.
Good to hear it.
I had the view trying to implement Lean, starting with W.Edwards Deming - from the top - and getting nowhere my staff.
I'd read everywhere else it was a bottom up thing and the management never listened.
Then speaking to Dave Lenihan who had been at the W.Edwards Deming org he told me that often when management tried to go that route all the staff left or were sacked. What a world. C'mon guys it's good for everyone and everything, the only 'problem' is you have to think
Do you have a link to this 'Lean' thing? I've never heard of it.
walpurgis
27-07-2013, 11:11
I facilitate rapid improvement events.
My God, what the hell does that mean. I spent 35 years working for or with local authorities and thought I'd heard every daft term they seem to generate!
. I spent 35 years working for or with local authorities !
My condolences ;)
Clothears
27-07-2013, 11:16
Mike, I use lean as my Job in the council, I facilitate rapid improvement events.
@clothears what were they bloody thinking?!
Basically, the guy couldn't give a toss. He'd sold them on Ebay and the buyer overseas had arranged his own collection through Parcel2Go or someone like that. His attitude was "nothing to do with me, his responsibility etc.etc.". It stunk to be honest. One of the main reasons why when buying 2nd hand hifi related stuff I rarely use Ebay and concentrate on these type of forums.
Thankfully that example is very rare, on private sales most people go overboard on the packaging which is a good thing. You can never "overpack" something.
.
walpurgis
27-07-2013, 11:21
My condolences ;)
Could have been worse. It was always very local, I knew the job inside out and was good at it so nobody ever gave me any grief. I knew more about how to get things done than any senior management, they came to me for advice.
Money was crap though, but I used a company or council car most of the time and that was worth a few quid to me.
My God, what the hell does that mean. I spent 35 years working for or with local authorities and thought I'd heard every daft term they seem to generate!
Geoff,
In my household, rapid improvement event is the term of art for the kick up the jacksie my son gets at an appropriate moment! :)
Peter
MikeMusic
27-07-2013, 12:30
Do you have a link to this 'Lean' thing? I've never heard of it.
The root of it all is W. Edwards Deming, top man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming
Kaizen is part of it
http://www.uk.kaizen.com/
Previously been expressed as "TQM" and other buzzwords/bullshit bingo, often badly by highly paid consultants who knew naff all. BS5050 was a pathetic poke at it but ISO9000 is much better
I used it to cut down the wasted time we used to spend printing CRFs (Case Report Forms), complex books made of NCR with all sort of add ons.
Printing is one process. A CRF can have more than an extra 10 other processes before it's ready to go.
I cut down our CRF journey through the factory and all these processes from 144 steps to 33 IIRC.
But it was much more than that as there is toing and froing between processes so, finger in the air, 250 steps to 50.
Can be applied to almost anything -Sky cycling use it to win bike races
I pointed it back at myself recently when my right hand girl gave in her notice.
All my immediate filing is right by me, my office printer is very close by me.
It can definitely be used in offices not just factories as most people think
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Obvious-Office-Delivery-Services/dp/0955274605
is a fair start
MikeMusic
27-07-2013, 12:33
Basically, the guy couldn't give a toss. He'd sold them on Ebay and the buyer overseas had arranged his own collection through Parcel2Go or someone like that. His attitude was "nothing to do with me, his responsibility etc.etc.". It stunk to be honest. One of the main reasons why when buying 2nd hand hifi related stuff I rarely use Ebay and concentrate on these type of forums.
Thankfully that example is very rare, on private sales most people go overboard on the packaging which is a good thing. You can never "overpack" something.
.
Classic example of a git - doing the wrong thing
Let;s hope Karma bites him
The root of it all is W. Edwards Deming, top man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming
Kaizen is part of it
http://www.uk.kaizen.com/
Previously been expressed as "TQM" and other buzzwords/bullshit bingo, often badly by highly paid consultants who knew naff all. BS5050 was a pathetic poke at it but ISO9000 is much better
lol funny you should say that, just been out to lunch with a colleague and I asked him if he had heard of it and his exact words were 'it's just bullshit bingo.'
The Americans in particular seem to want to make everything pseudo-scientific, probably because there is more money to be made telling people how do things than there is in actually doing it. Common sense and experience is really all that is required, shame that common sense seems relatively uncommon and experience isn't valued as much as some bullshit qualification.
MikeMusic
27-07-2013, 13:50
lol funny you should say that, just been out to lunch with a colleague and I asked him if he had heard of it and his exact words were 'it's just bullshit bingo.'
The Americans in particular seem to want to make everything pseudo-scientific, probably because there is more money to be made telling people how do things than there is in actually doing it. Common sense and experience is really all that is required, shame that common sense seems relatively uncommon and experience isn't valued as much as some bullshit qualification.
Deming was hijacked by the bullshitters and anyone who saw a way of making fast money.
One of his stipulations was that everyone worked to make the whole company better but no one got laid off or made redundant because of the efficiencies made
Guess what ? Bet you can
Deming's methods were bottom up so the guys doing it could apply what they knew and they were given space to improve, occasionally get it wrong.
It's applied common sense, which just ain't common and experience turned towards making it better.
Look at that Wiki link and read Deming's
Key Principles and Seven Deadly diseases
He was many years ahead of his time
No wonder he became a grumpy old man. He must have seen the bullshitting consultants minting it too. Brits can do it just as wlel as Yanks.
One story makes me smile
A Ford, Ford Motors, can't remember which one got hold of Deming's stuff and was excited
"Ask him to come and see me"
Deming's reply -"he can come and see me"
:)
I've asked 'experts' to help me out on something. Usually turns out I know more than them :(
The bad thing about Deming is once you 'get it' life becomes a struggle to achieve it.
Nearly all the people I employed when I 'got it' have gone. The company attitude is now geared towards constant improvement with the odd kick from me
:)
Interesting read that, Mike. They use a similarly derived system at the company I work for. The problem with Denning's theories for me is that you still need several people or more depending on the size of the company to 'get it' other wise the whole thing becomes another box-ticking exercise, and ultimately another unnecessary cost.
MikeMusic
27-07-2013, 14:36
Interesting read that, Mike. They use a similarly derived system at the company I work for. The problem with Denning's theories for me is that you still need several people or more depending on the size of the company to 'get it' other wise the whole thing becomes another box-ticking exercise, and ultimately another unnecessary cost.
Always been the problem for me and I'm sure others too. Ticking boxes is pointless.
All I needed to do at the very beginning was to move kit. I know enough about the processes to do it, most management doesn't. I tried to get them to have the ideas. After months of naff all I moved the kit.
When new people come in they see this as the norm, so no resistance to to change. Existing people get used to it in time, they even take it on board but it is slow
Since I started we have eliminated some processes completely, made others work in tandem
Biggest kick I get is when someone else has the idea - that's what I'm after.
Sky cycling are a good example. - Miniscule improvements in many different areas mean they are almost unstoppable.
I made one other mistake - I forgot the sales process, so when we lost about 80% of an industry sector (printing lots of paper volumes for new drug submissions, now mostly on CD) there was a drop in turnover. 'Course we do this very efficiently, but there is 80% less of it !
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