Bi wire jumpers?

[icehockeyboy]

Silly question perhaps, but why are these short bits of cable called bi wire jumpers, when you use them INSTEAD of bi wiring? :scratch:

[Oldpinkman]

Don't get me, or I should say my pal Owen, going on this one. The question is "why have cables" ? And the supplementary is to ask where they think the electrons go, and what they do on the track of a pcb...:scratch:

[Andrew B]

Silly question perhaps, but why are these short bits of cable called bi wire jumpers, when you use them INSTEAD of bi wiring? :scratch:

Yes, that's right. Far better IMO to use actual cable that those flat bits of metal some manufacturers include. Kimber 8TC is good, but expensive. I'm not a fan of solid core usually, but I have had decent results using jumpers made from plain old twin and earth and it will cost you pence to try.

[pjdowns]

I've used the ones that came with my speakers and they are better than the usual links but still pretty rubbish. Think you should use decent cable or best results :)

[John R Leddy]

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Silly question perhaps...

Craig, there are no silly questions, only silly answers.


...but why are these short bits of cable called bi wire jumpers...

Maybe potential purchasers could infer they are of greater effectiveness than the nickel-plated, gold-flashed, or gold-plated pressed-tin connectors supplied by the manufacturer.


...when you use them INSTEAD of bi wiring?

I understand why potential purchasers could think bi-wiring should start as close as possible to the amplifier outputs.

However, to aid this answer, let's imagine the amplifier's PCB extends to 6 inches away from the loudspeaker inputs. We could then manufacture a 6 inch long Y-connector of loudspeaker cable to achieve bi-wiring.

Now let's tidy this application by creating the Y-junction at the first set of loudspeaker terminals. In this case there would effectively be no cable going to the first set of loudspeaker terminals (as we're pretending the actual cable is an extension of the PCB), and a short length of cable going to the second set of loudspeaker terminals.

So, illustratively speaking, with bi-wire jumpers your loudspeaker cables may be seen as being of different lengths; firstly of zero length, and secondly of the length of the jumper.

Of course, in real terms these figures would be in addition to the actual length of the originating loudspeaker cable. For example, the squawker cable could be 3 yards + 0 inches = 3 yards in length, and the tweeter cable could be 3 yards + 4 inches = 3 yards 4 inches in length.

Hope this helps,

John.

[icehockeyboy]

Guys, I think most, if not all have misunderstood what my question was about.

If you use " jumpers" you are not bi wiring, so why is the aforementioned jumper referred to as a " bi wire link", when it is exactly the opposite. :)

Hope that now makes complete sense to you......

[John R Leddy]

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Guys, I think most, if not all have misunderstood what my question was about.

If you use " jumpers" you are not bi wiring, so why is the aforementioned jumper referred to as a " bi wire link", when it is exactly the opposite.

Hope that now makes complete sense to you......

Naughty. Sounds like you already knew the answer to your original question before posting Craig.

Please allow me to elucidate for others reading this thread in the future.

There is no stipulation which demands bi-wiring must begin exactly at the output sockets located on the backplate of the amplifier. If an amplifier was equipped with 4 terminals per channel bi-wiring would have already been executed within the amplifier prior to the output sockets on the backplate, whether the owner chose to utilise all the sockets or not.

Likewise, bi-wiring can occur after the amplifier's loudspeaker outputs, be it 6 inches or 6 feet after the sockets. If you were to take this application to its ultimate distance you'd be at the inputs of the loudspeaker. Therefore the division of the cable would be at the first set of loudspeaker terminals used. Thus the sales patter, or gimmick if you prefer.

If it's starting to sound like you may as well just use a single length of cable to each speaker, and while you're at it just leave the loudspeaker manufacturer's connectors in place as well, there are a great many people would agree with you.

John.

[The Grand Wazoo]

They're bi-wire terminals and the jumpers jump across them.... what's the mystery?

[icehockeyboy]

All I was getting at is the fact that despite them being called bi wire links, or whatever, they are actually used when you Don't bi wire! :)

[Andrei]

I think Wazoo has it. It is as if there is an unsaid word: "Bi-Wire [terminal] jumpers."

[DSJR]

Yes, that's right. Far better IMO to use actual cable that those flat bits of metal some manufacturers include. Kimber 8TC is good, but expensive. I'm not a fan of solid core usually, but I have had decent results using jumpers made from plain old twin and earth and it will cost you pence to try.

But the bits of metal have FAR higher gauge than the bits of wire 'we' make up to replace them, surely???

Not trying to thread crap, but it is a genuine feeling here, especially when the links are gold-plated as they are in many links. Tweeters take so little current anyway compared to the bass units and my own experiments some years ago were inconclusive...

[DSJR]

I've used the ones that came with my speakers and they are better than the usual links but still pretty rubbish. Think you should use decent cable or best results :)

The ONLY reason your speakers have four sockets on them in the first place - and I got this from Robin Marshall himself - was for commercial pressure from dealers. I did this to my own ES14's, Robin having supplied me with the relevant bits, and didn't really get a difference here at all, but then I shouldn't expect to in this instance.

Robin did originally conceive a three wire connector system for the ES14's - common return - so we could use simple three core mains cable, but HiFi Review editor Chris Frankland dismissed this out of hand, so Robin stifled the idea before the ES14 sales took off.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Marantz used a commoned earth, three terminal arrangement on their first bi-wire speakers, which must have been some of he first designs to be made specifically for bi-wiring (as opposed to those made earlier with bi-amping or active in mind). When Martin Colloms first published the results of his experiments into bi-wiring, he noted an improvement but cautioned against commoning the earth.

[icehockeyboy]

What about an analogy, you know, if bi wire links are used when you are Not bi wiring?

A bit like calling a cars brake pedal the accelerator........well it is used for the opposite act isn't it! :D

[Alan]

My Royds have two sets of terminals. I was going to get some 'decent' links sorted out, until I took the back panel (with the banana sockets) off.

I realised that I could simply remove the solder joints to one set of terminals, and join up that part of the crossover to the other. Now, only one set of sockets work, and I should imagine that negating the need for any links is better than having even very expensive ones. Cheapness wins again!! ;)

[hifi_dave]

I used to do that as a matter of course with my demo speakers equipped for bi-wiring. Some are not so straightforward but most are a doddle to do and fortunately, the majority of speakers now only have one set of terminals.

[Reffc]

One set of terminals is the way to go imho unless you really insist that bi-wiring makes some sonic improvements (ie do what Dave suggests). Of course, the advantages of two sets of inputs is that you can if you decide it's worth the expense, go active and bypass the internal crossovers at a later date.

[YNWaN]

Silly question perhaps, but why are these short bits of cable called bi wire jumpers, when you use them INSTEAD of bi wiring? :scratch:

Umm... because they 'jump' between the bi-wire terminals converting them from bi-wire to single terminal.
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When I rebuilt my Yamaha crossovers I made them bi-wirable and that is how u use them.
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Many years ago I converted my ES14's to bi-wire use and found it made quite a large difference. More recently I made up some jumper leads to defeat the bi-wiring and try them single wired. Again I found quite a big difference but preferred them bi-wired.