Re: QUAD ESL 57

[thebeathunters]

here they are
plugged to classic Quad II, groovy...

10198

10199

10200

[Oldpinkman]

Another Frenchie. And another 57 boy. Nice speakers. Even nicer stacked ! :eyebrows:

[Gordon Steadman]

Another Frenchie. And another 57 boy. Nice speakers. Even nicer stacked ! :eyebrows:

Hmm, you are going to be horribly outnumbered Richard. Keep working on the wife and we'll let you join the club:ner:

[Barry]

They look good Phil.

I would recommend you move them further away from the corners of the room and perhaps place a strip of carpet in front of them to avoid reflection from the acoustically hard floor.

Wishing you many years of happy listening - I've had over forty from mine, and wouldn't use any other. :)

[thebeathunters]

thanks guys
yeah stacked will be nice but too much to live with in this room. this pair comes from a friend who had them stacked. he finally let them go to enjoy on a daily basis. it's all a question of compromises between elements, space, means, rugs, etc. i know the ESL are quite touchy about placement so i'm playing around with them right now

[Oldpinkman]

Hmm, you are going to be horribly outnumbered Richard. Keep working on the wife and we'll let you join the club:ner:

Hmm. We'll see about that. I might yet keep the testicles - these speakers have real balls with the integral amp. I'm not quite believing what I'm hearing in my very compromised listening room at the moment, especially with this flaky, prototype FX3 arm. Owen has both 57's and 63's (and the skill to service them, and the skill to make me a set of stacked 57's - since he built the last ones I used, if SWMBO can be won round), so I might take the PT's up when I go to collect my Quad, and apply gentle pressure ( a fourteen pound sledgehammer should do it) for him to sort us out a power amp design. :D

Btw - there's a shocking rumour the world is round like a ball...:ner:

[Firebottle]

Hmm, you are going to be horribly outnumbered Richard. Keep working on the wife and we'll let you join the club:ner:

That must be the cinquante-sept club me thinks. New members always welcome :D

:cheers: Alan

[Oldpinkman]

That must be the cinquante-sept club me thinks. New members always welcome :D

:cheers: Alan

Cent quatorze or soixante-trois acceptable?

[Gordon Steadman]

Cent quatorze or soixante-trois acceptable?

Certainly not. Pretenders to the throne just don't get a look in. Only the original and best is recognised as king (or queen I guess, being a bit PC - something this Mac user finds difficult)

Any typing errors or errors of judgement excepted. Just got back from the annual Producer's market in the village. Great local food and the odd bevvy passed lips.

[Oldpinkman]

Listen. If you lot are going to keep bullying me I shall stay in blighty. The weather we've had recently I've been wondering what I think I'm moving for. Mrs s didn't like the 57s at owens. She loved the 63s. And they weren't even on stands. Anyway I'm amplifier fixated for the minute. That integral goes back on tuesday :(

[Barry]

Cent quatorze or soixante-trois acceptable?

What Quad speaker is the "114"?

[Oldpinkman]

What Quad speaker is the "114"?

Stacked 57s! :lol:

[Audio Al]

I will soon have 2 pairs :eyebrows:

[Barry]

Stacked 57s!
The answer occured to me about half an hour later! :doh: Blame it on the heat - my brain slows down in hot weather.



I will soon have 2 pairs

I once tried stacked Quad '57s. Superb presence and bass but, alas, visually they are far too imposing.

[thebeathunters]

:scratch:are we on the same page here that ESL57 request to be phase inverted (red/black-black/red) with any amp - quadII included?

[Gordon Steadman]

Listen. If you lot are going to keep bullying me I shall stay in blighty. The weather we've had recently I've been wondering what I think I'm moving for. Mrs s didn't like the 57s at owens. She loved the 63s. And they weren't even on stands. Anyway I'm amplifier fixated for the minute. That integral goes back on tuesday :(

Bully moi?? I have you know we are the good guys. Understand?

Be interesting to know what was driving the 57s. But you will do what you will do and we are understanding chaps and will welcome you whatever. have I missed a thread?? Why does the amp go back?

[Firebottle]

Keep up Gordon, it's only on loan.

Plus it's very rare, see this thread http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?26748-Pink-Triangle-Integral-Amp-wanted

:cool:Alan

[Gordon Steadman]

Aha, I did indeed miss all that. Must be roofitis, laying tiles in this sun rather takes the mind off everything but an ice cream or ice cold beer. I'll try and catch up on the rest of life and all that when its finished - the roof that is.

If Richard is going for ESLs, maybe an OTL would be of interest to him!!:eyebrows:

[thebeathunters]

still searching for lowest impedance speaker cable. does anyone know about specs of early Audio Note AN-A/ copper/yellow one?
thanks for feedback

[Barry]

Just choose a cable with conductors that have a large a cross-section area (low resistance), and are as close together as possible (low inductance).

All that matters is the cables have a low resistance and low inductance. Don't worry about the capacitance and if possible, make the cable lengths as short as you can.

Quad themselves used 10A 'lawnmower' cable, and I use 20A QED 79-strand cable.

[Oldpinkman]

If I have not misread Barry's advice , and can read it as "any decent speaker cable will do", and having just recently tried some QED79 in my system while experimenting with room layouts, (pause for breath)
I have been very pleased with the green speaker wire from Reffc (talk 3 I think its called). It was a good bit better, maybe not quite up to my very fancy (and very scruffy) chord flat cable, but not so that it bothered me enough to try changing back. And certainly suitable for wiring up 57's. And about £50 for a 1.5m terminated pair. Strongly recommended.

[thebeathunters]

a french forumer offers me a good deal on AN-A yellow/2,5mm cable, 80£ for 2x3m
it's an early AN cable discontinued item then replaced by the blue one
don't know any specs about it and some say AN-A was ITC cable, not speaker cable...
any help welcome

[Barry]

If I have not misread Barry's advice , and can read it as "any decent speaker cable will do", and having just recently tried some QED79 in my system while experimenting with room layouts, (pause for breath)
I have been very pleased with the green speaker wire from Reffc (talk 3 I think its called). It was a good bit better, maybe not quite up to my very fancy (and very scruffy) chord flat cable, but not so that it bothered me enough to try changing back. And certainly suitable for wiring up 57's. And about £50 for a 1.5m terminated pair. Strongly recommended.

That's correct. In what way was it "a good bit better"?

[Oldpinkman]

That's correct. In what way was it "a good bit better"?

Oh dear. I hate describing speaker cable. I had been using the chords - 2 4m lengths. I tried some QED 79 I had left over from the AV wiring, at 1.5m and 3.5m - which is what I need. Detail went - it became a softer, muddier, more dead sort of sound. The chords were top range cables 20 + years ago. It just became a bit dull with the QED79. Which surprised me because I had used QED79 routinely before, and was struck what a major step up it was in the AV setup - now I had moved the room round and was doing things properly. I quite expected the QED79 to be good enough for now. And whilst it was ok - I was surprised how much I was loosing. Too much to leave it like that. I would have made Sue put up with the scruffy chords, and she would have been happy to, rather than leave the QED79 in. Not that the QED was bad, but I am hopeless. If I remember something better, I am just never really happy with coping with something even slightly below what I remember afterwards. It's going to be a nightmare giving that power amp back :( (although Owen claims to have improved the 405 further by taking the electrolytics out of the signal path completely)

It is really quite difficult to describe, but real enough and noticeable enough for my wife to comment unprompted. The kit I am using at the moment is revealing quite exceptional detail, and the QED lost some of that. I never quite know how to describe these things properly. It isnt like there were an extra set of cymbals on tracks, and when you think you notice something "new" its often there on the setup you thought it wasnt. But instruments are more clearly coming from one spot, and not fudged into a sort of curtain of mixed instruments. They sound more real. This is especially apparant on classical music, or music with natural sounding instruments (the trombone on Katie Melua for example). No question that the bass is a double bass, not an electric. That sort of detail. And great "rhythm" (argh - I never thought you'd catch me saying that, but no question that when there is a break on a drum kit, you hear clearly and precisely the notes, and therefore the rhythmic effect of the sequence of notes)

I stuck the talk 3 in when it arrived, thought "I'm not sure that's quite as clear as the chord", and wondered about comparing it back, and never got round to it, and never regretted it. The talk 3 is able to get a lot of that detail through, and was relatively modestly priced and beautifully made (spade terminals one end, Pauls - better than banana plug jobbies the other)

I suppose I should point out I was using some very ordinary gold plated connectors on the QED 79 if you believe that might make any sort of difference. Personally I am inclined not to think that, but I haven't fiddled about testing.

Better because they are able to let all the detail through if the rest of the system is capable, whereas the QED79 very slightly muffles it or dulls it.

[Barry]

Richard, thanks for your full and considered reply.

Whilst it does appear that your new speaker cables are an improvement in your system, I do not recognise your description of the failings of the QED 79 in my system using Quad '57s. The sound has never appeared muddy, 'dead', dull or lacking in detail. Nor is there any problem or ambiguity with instrument placement or with instrument identity. (If you can't distinguish between a double bass and an electric bass, there is something seriously wrong with one's system.) That was when I had speaker cable lengths of 6 and 16m; now I use 1m lengths connecting to monoblock amplifiers situated directly behind each speaker.

Clearly it is a matter of "courses for horses", and I'm delighted you have found a way of improving your system.

Regards

[Oldpinkman]

Richard, thanks for your full and considered reply.

Whilst it does appear that your new speaker cables are an improvement in your system, I do not recognise your description of the failings of the QED 79 in my system using Quad '57s. The sound has never appeared muddy, 'dead', dull or lacking in detail. Nor is there any problem or ambiguity with instrument placement or with instrument identity. (If you can't distinguish between a double bass and an electric bass, there is something seriously wrong with one's system.) That was when I had speaker cable lengths of 6 and 16m; now I use 1m lengths connecting to monoblock amplifiers situated directly behind each speaker.

Clearly it is a matter of "courses for horses", and I'm delighted you have found a way of improving your system.

Regards

You're welcome Barry. I can believe that. It comes back to that problem of describing things. It isn't that they were "muddy" or "muffled". Its that the "Improvement" was even more not muddy and not muffled. I am puzzling over this quite a bit at the minute. The Fx5 arm was a revelation after the mission. I hadnt really thought I was missing anything with the mission 774. The FX3 is a whole leap up from the FX5 - which wasn't missing anything either. And I know Arthur has another arm planned he considers will be even better. The Fx5 isnt "muddy" or "upper bass coloured" - it is a very detailed satisfying arm. But compared with the FX3 it is both of those things. You wonder just where this all stops

Especially if I try another description, and go back to my dad's comment at the barbeque about the Bach. It absolutely perfectly sounds completely like it is real musical instruments played by real musicians, in a different bigger room than my living room. It sounds absolutely perfect. Not Hi Fi - Perfect Fi. Totally convincingly real. And yet the Ventricals are hardly the last word in speakers, and the 1022 must surely be bettered by the EPS310 when it gets here. And I can't conceive of how it can improve on perfect, let alone how I could describe it, but I have a feeling that it will. And in my attempt to describe the difference I will end up calling what I have now "slightly muddier, or less clear, or less real"

I told you I hate describing these things. If you are ever passing Yalding, pop in for a listen :)

I realise we all have different budgets. Arthur wants me to try some speaker cables he is planning to peddle for £1700 a pair. Now I certainly wouldnt buy those blind just to find out. I would need an awful lot of convincing they could be that good even if I get to audition them. But I am, personally, not so troubled about shelling out £65 to find out - which is what I did with the Talk 3's

I would only suggest if you were interested in cable, and could afford that sort of money to find out, personally I would give them a go.

[thebeathunters]

actually, cable capacitance is crucial in driving ESL. currrent one i'm using is pretty high and forces me to push up the volume of the quadII to almost 12:00, when a low capacitance like NAC 5 keeps it around 8/9:00.

[Barry]

actually, cable capacitance is crucial in driving ESL. currrent one i'm using is pretty high and forces me to push up the volume of the quadII to almost 12:00, when a low capacitance like NAC 5 keeps it around 8/9:00.

Can't say I agree. The reactance of the Quad 57 ESL is capacitative above 200Hz, with a typical value of 8uF. Your current cables must be very capacitive for them to have such an effect! I would imagine the newer cables have a much lower loop resistance for the volume control to be set lower. The volume control of most amplifiers should be set at around 12 o'clock for normal listening levels, if you want maximum headroom without running into noise.

[Oldpinkman]

actually, cable capacitance is crucial in driving ESL. currrent one i'm using is pretty high and forces me to push up the volume of the quadII to almost 12:00, when a low capacitance like NAC 5 keeps it around 8/9:00.

Nor me. It neither accorded with my personal experience of the speakers, or my (fairly feeble) understanding of electronics. So I checked with someone who knows what he's talking about - my mate Owen, who owns 57's and 63's, built the stacked set at the factory, and well, knows what he's talking about. I could post our correspondence, but the conclusion was that it is not true. Of course, you have experienced what you have experienced, but there must be some other explanation for it. The ESL 57 is a speaker. Any speaker cable will work with it.

[thebeathunters]

Nor me. It neither accorded with my personal experience of the speakers, or my (fairly feeble) understanding of electronics. So I checked with someone who knows what he's talking about - my mate Owen, who owns 57's and 63's, built the stacked set at the factory, and well, knows what he's talking about. I could post our correspondence, but the conclusion was that it is not true. Of course, you have experienced what you have experienced, but there must be some other explanation for it. The ESL 57 is a speaker. Any speaker cable will work with it.

thanks for your feedback. i'm just discovering the ESLs, day after day and this volume "issue" - is not a real one as it's playing fine otherwise.
of course i guess any speaker cable will work. i can't resist to quote peter walker on this:

"There are only two requirements a speaker cable should satisfy. The first is that it should be long enough to reach between amplifier and speaker. Then having done that, the only other requirement is, ideally, the colour of the insulation should match that of the surface on which it is lays."
"The best kind are those that conduct electricity"

currently, i'm using this very thin all-copper cable - actually it's more wire than cable, used by telecommunications techs - that play great with the Tannoys. a friend who's using now NAC5 had the same issue with mogami neglex 2497 (12:00 level). NAC5 enabled him to drop down the pot to 8/9 o his i'll soon get NAC5 and AN cables next week and will make comparison with mogami neglex 2497.

keep on groovin'

[Oldpinkman]

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I like the Peter Walker comment - but even Owen would concede speaker cables are audibly different. It doesn't surprise me that very thin cable will cause the volume to drop. That has nothing to do with capacitance or the ESL57's special needs. I recently hooked up an AV setup and - in the early trial situation before we had the carpet lifted for the final run hooked up rear right using some thin cable originally supplied with a £200 sony home theater, and left rear with some "Proper" speaker cable from homebase (ie closer to the thickness of QED79). The right speaker was about half the volume of the left.

Subsequently using real QED79 for both speakers in the final install was a big improvement. If the Talk 3 isn't over budget then it would be worth a shot. Will be driving past your place in about 8 days time :)

[thebeathunters]

hi richard, thanks for the tip. i will try thicker cable tomorrow. OFC or some other Mog. you mean driving near lyon, france? too bad i'm leaving next wednesday for the south , you could have dropped by. when do you drive back?

[Barry]

Good to see that we are now 'singing from the same hymn sheet'.

Without actually specifying make or brand, a general rule of thumb for speaker cables is that the loop resistance of the cable ought to be no more than 5% of the speaker impedance, i.e. 0.4 -0.5 Ohm. Actually, I would go further and say the loop resistance and inductance of the cable should be no more than 0.1 Ohm + 3uH, or 0.2Ohm including the output impedance of the driving amplifier.

So thick conductors, preferably loosely twisted together.

[Gordon Steadman]

I've been using QED 79 strand with my 57s for as long as I remember. Same 5 metre lengths whatever the room and just tidy them away somewhere. In this place they are under the floor. I have tried a few other posh cables when I was being influenced by all the rubbish in the mags but my ears told me that, if there was a difference, it was most certainly not worth all the extra dosh involved. I have found some difference with interconnects but even those are now down to either the low capacitance leads that were £10 for a metre in Richer I think, or Monster cable that came in a roll in a car I bought once!! That even has little arrows on it to please the enthusiast but I am far from convinced it makes a damn bit of difference which way round its used. I certainly never check.

[Oldpinkman]

It's all that sawdust in your ears gordon. Just wait till I bring my toys round to play.
Qed79 at a couple of euro a metre has to be the obvious starting point for phil though. Will unquestionably do the job better than the thin strands he has now.
If your kit is good enough you can hear a further difference with some better. Probably these esl57 things you all use can't resolve the detaik thst the ventricals can :ner:
Phil monday 29th we will be in thoissey. Tue 30th frejus. Probably return home via the western route, since from the 14th we will be in the Languedoc house hunting. Thanks for the offer - one day

[Gordon Steadman]

It's all that sawdust in your ears gordon. Just wait till I bring my toys round to play.
Qed79 at a couple of euro a metre has to be the obvious starting point for phil though. Will unquestionably do the job better than the thin strands he has now.
If your kit is good enough you can hear a further difference with some better. Probably these esl57 things you all use can't resolve the detaik thst the ventricals can :ner:
Phil monday 29th we will be in thoissey. Tue 30th frejus. Probably return home via the western route, since from the 14th we will be in the Languedoc house hunting. Thanks for the offer - one day

Nowadays I would probably agree with you However, when I was young and with a full set of 'facilities' I thought exactly the same, so there:ner:. Anyway, the Quads resolve lots of detaik:)

The western route might bring you near here. We could chill some Pineau!!

[Oldpinkman]

Thanks Gordon. Alan (Firebottle) had suggested something similar, and as I said to him, we are not yet sure whether we will be returning at our leisure, or lingering in the languedoc and hammering it back. Sue's brother may come down for the last week of August - and she is desperate to show someone round "our region" (even though we don't actually live there yet). We may not know until we are out there. If that was an open invitation, Sue is head of music at a local boys school, so we get school holidays, and there is a half term in October, fit for a mini-tour.

OK - cables and fantasies. I don't do directional. My chords are directional and sound identical regardless of which way you plug 'em in. To quote my mate Owens response to the capacitance and ESL's question I put to him "Is there any science in this" - his response was "absolute twaddle". And ditto directional cables. Interconnects are clearly affected by things like the type of shielding, but we did a very interesting experiment way back when. We got 3 well known, and quite different sounding interconnects, and could hear the differences on blind listening easily. Owen measured the resistance and capacitance of each cable and built balance boxes to set them all to the same value. Nobody could tell them apart. Not a difficult experiment for many on here to replicate if they feel so inclined. My Pip, by virtue of its DC arming I guess, seems pretty cable insensitive.

I am not delusional. When I wired up recently with QED79 after using my chords, it was a disappointment. Not bad. Difficult to describe, but no need for fannying about with A:B comparisons. We just weren't happy leaving the QED in, and swapped back to the chord and were happy ever after. Mrs S picking it up every bit as much as I did. When I put in the Talk 3, with a pre-disposition to wanting them to do the job, partly because I didn't want to think I had wasted £65, and partly because they were neat, and going back to the chords would be scruffy, and a waste of my recent carpentry (don't look if you ever visit) on a new set of hifi shelves, my first impression was maybe they weren't quite as good.

However, unlike with the QED where I had to change back, this time I felt no such need and have been completely happy with the sound. Maybe they're not quite as good as the chords, but not so much it bothers me. Whereas the QED 79 did. So speaker cables make a difference , You know that - replace the QED79 with some mains cable and remind yourself. And contrary to my dad's firm belief, the english language was not perfected for all time at Crayford Grammar school in the early 50's, speaker cable was not perfected with QED79, and - brace yourself folks, loudspeaker development didn't halt with the ESL57.

I didn't really think the Ventricals were capable of revealing more detail - although the unconventional tweeter on them would surprise you. (It is always referred to as a ribbon tweeter - when not referred to as an electrostatic tweeter, but in fact is a mylar etched coil tweeter). Nor do I think it remotely possible that a cable would manifest a difference on one high quality speaker, but not another. The 57 is a loudspeaker. But I am bidding on a pair of 57's so I can check (and for other reasons);)

I don't routinely fiddle about - but if something is noticeably better I tend to have a memory for it, and take a long time to get over it. I am very wary of trying these speaker cables Arthur plans to peddle for £1700. On the one hand, I can't imagine any cable being credible at £1700. On the other, Arthur has an irritating habit of producing great sounding products.

It is difficult to describe the differences but they are clearly audible. As I noted earlier, my system now is perfect. When I put ESL 57's in it will still be perfect but different. Ditto the EPS310MC. Some of those differences will matter, I will decide on my favourite, and be unhappy with anything else. Attempts to find words to describe the differences lead to the failure I had with Barry. You can have a bit of a stab - but they rarely convey the same thing to different people. There is not substitute for listening.

Phwoah - enough deranged rambling - off to cool off. Would be good to meet sometime :cool:

[Firebottle]

loudspeaker development didn't halt with the ESL57.

Agreed, but what an amazing (sorry - I used the A word) design from the 50's to progress from. Biggest drawback is the directivity but nothing's perfect.

Make sure you lift the 57s off the floor, don't leave them on the original legs, when you get them Richard.
I used 4 of the legs to support my downward firing sub and for that they are ideal.

:cool:Alan

[Gordon Steadman]

, loudspeaker development didn't halt with the ESL57.



Obviously true but...........development doesn't always mean improvement. Research is done in all fields to keep pushing the boundaries, some work and are accepted as advances and some aren't.

Anyone working in any field will always claim improvements or how can they pay their mortgages?

No matter how many times I try and listen to other speakers, and I've been through quite a few, I always. always come back to the Quads. I used to spend a lot of time in dealers around SE and SW London, listening to all the 'latest and greatest' gear.

I will admit though, that time stopped for me about eight years ago when priority switched to our changing life and the move to France. I will therefore admit to the small possibility that someone, somewhere has done something useful in the last few years of which I am unaware.

How's that? Ghengis relents......a little:eyebrows:

[Oldpinkman]

How's that? Ghengis relents......a little:eyebrows:

Haha! Actually I'm far more with you than against you. Broadly I am happier that way too - and share your liking for the electrostatic. I happen to have spent time with some truly innovative designers making some real advances 20 years ago, and because my precious Pip was broke and no normal person could mend it, I have found myself mixing with the same guys, and one of them has some interesting new toys which have been fun to play with.

But a year ago, I would have been happy with Technics U205C, Helius Orion, Pink Triangle (ok - preferably Anniversary - but the basic would do), Pip (Pip2 better but..) Quad 405-2 (modded) Ventricals forever.

I am hoping I may settle down to Technics EPS310MC, Fx3 (or maybe the next one...), Modified PT (gotta have that platter and suspension reinforcement - might as well have vector and the sub-chassis mod)Pip(2?) Integral or Owens new job, and ESL some number plus the Ventricals on standby (never going to sell them). And be just as much of an old stick in the mud :)

Hopeless on a thread - to discuss this properly we need wine :cool: A bientot

[Oldpinkman]

Agreed, but what an amazing (sorry - I used the A word) design from the 50's to progress from. Biggest drawback is the directivity but nothing's perfect.



Absolutely. Bass isn't great either, but Amazing design


Make sure you lift the 57s off the floor, don't leave them on the original legs, when you get them Richard.


Like these you mean

http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/esl57_zps34b00746.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/esl57_zps34b00746.jpg.html)

;)

[Gordon Steadman]

Absolutely. Bass isn't great either, but Amazing design



Like these you mean

http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/esl57_zps34b00746.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/esl57_zps34b00746.jpg.html)

;)

Well mine look like that, though I made the stands myself.

I think you may find that Alan's (Firebottle) have gone up in the world:lol:

[thebeathunters]

plugged the ESLs with thicker mogami cable this morning. seems like i hear less of that volume issue . i actually tend to lower it down... will check on the proper mono lp that kinda epitomized the trouble and will test various cables soon. Qed79 is on the list of course

[Barry]

Well mine look like that, though I made the stands myself.

I think you may find that Alan's (Firebottle) have gone up in the world:lol:

Alan's '57s look good - but I think they ought to be moved further forward from the corner, especially with those acoustically hard brick walls.

[Oldpinkman]

Alan's '57s look good - but I think they ought to be moved further forward from the corner, especially with those acoustically hard brick walls.

They do indeed. May have to commission some. And yes, ESL's don't like being near a wall, which is why I am only now thinking of picking up another pair ahead of the move to France. They are just too big to be allowed permanently in my current living room, and will need to be moved in and taken out for a listening session if I am keen enough. Even then, I am only going to have them about 1m from rear wall, 1.5m apart (inside edges) and at very best 2m from listeners ears. Hopeless for ESL's. Its a wonder the Ventricals sound as good as they do in similarly useless conditions :)

[loo]

Hi, I think you might be surprised how good 57's would sound in a space that size. Especially if they were being driven by a firebottle OTL;)

[Barry]

Yes - they could sound OK, provided there is something to absorb the sound radiating from the rear. The centre of your speakers will be 2m apart, so if your listening position is also 2m from each speaker, this forms an equilateral triangle; often considered to be the best arrangement for Quad '57s

My Quads have their inside edges 1m apart, and are 2m away from the rear wall. The listening position is 5m away.

[Oldpinkman]

I prefer your position Barry! If I can pick some up I'll try them, but the Ventricals are a much better domestic compromise, being tall and slim. In France, hopefully I'll have a room with better dimensions, although I am still looking to combine the home cinema, and not at all sure how appropriate they are in that role. Might try a bit of home brew (not me you understand - my buddies what know) :)

[Firebottle]

Surely if you are thinking of combining home cinema then you will be including a sub.

Combining a sub (a proper one that just bolsters the lower octave without subtracting from the main speakers) with 57s is sublime.

Do call in and have a listen ;)

:cool: A bit pissed now

Alan

[Firebottle]

As per Barrys suggestion I have now moved the 57s away from the back wall by another 50cm. I knew full well that where they were was a compromise in the previous position, it was more of a case of what was visually acceptable in the WAF sense.

There was only one sweet spot, as moving from side to side I could tell that there was some cancellation of the image due to the rear reflections.
I said to the missus that I was going to try moving the 57s and she said 'you'll do what you want anyway' which I suppose is the truth. Anyway it has turned out very well as she likes the fact that there appears more room around the large cabinet now, so - result.

Also, most importantly, the sound image is now fully focused over the whole of the width of the back wall, so it doesn't matter which chair you sit in and it doesn't have to be centralised :yay:
Richard you will have to come and have a listen, also of course using the OTL valve amp :D

Here is the new look:

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt97/Paramotorpilot/P1030281.jpg?t=1375011811

:cool:Alan

[thebeathunters]

now only a flat screen of same dimensions is missing between them on top of the buffet And you're set... hope we'll hear the missus scream louder than the quads:rolleyes:

[Firebottle]

No, she's really pleased with the setup, she appreciates the sound that comes out of the quads.

The flat screen tv is actually inside the cabinet, behind the central double doors. There is about a 3mm gap on either side:eek:

:cool:Alan

[Oldpinkman]

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt97/Paramotorpilot/P1030281.jpg?t=1375011811

:cool:Alan

Something similar could work for me - I like this :)

[thebeathunters]

tried to get rid of that black cloth on the ESL...:rolleyes: OTA did a fine job gluing it hard on the grilles, their usual procedure when they're in bad shape.
so now i'm looking for OG grilles at good price to rejuvenate these babies - if by any chance you have a lead...

[loo]

Hi, You can get new 57 grilles from Quad musikwiedergabe they do some funky new colours too.
Not sure of current price though.

[thebeathunters]

thanks, i contacted them and the dutch quad esl labs too, waiting for the prices... :rolleyes:

[thebeathunters]

news from the quad room:
naim nac5 cable is ok, so are mogami and tellurium blue. quad-gmbh provided a great pair of second-hand bronze grilles at very decent cost.
it changes everything and decuples my pleasure with that system.

10599