Cartridge setup tip

[Oldpinkman]

Tracking weight and anti-skate are critical to the sound you get out of an LP. On many arms, the standard dials are not accurate. There are stylus pressure gauges available for tracking force. Anti-skate needs a test record. I use the HiFi choice record. Basically you play a loud tone and listen for the buzz as it fails to track. In the case of anti-skate adjustment the buzz comes from just one channel. If its buzzing from both apply more tracking force.

(If you are very cute, or deaf, or just obsessed with gadgets you can do it with an oscilloscope)

The alternative method is to put the stylus on a spinning record with no grooves. Some test records have a blank section for this - but they cost a few quid. Turntables like the rega planar or the funk LSD have a glass platter - remove the felt mat and you can use that. Even if you could find a spare platter, they are too heavy for suspended decks like my PT, and too thick for the VTA to be valid.

The solution - at 99p plus postage from ebay - an old 12" laser disc. Lower the stylus to the centre of the record (laser disc) as it spins, and it should "track" - just stay where you put it. If it moves in or out adjust the antiskate force accordingly. Start with too little "bias" and the cartridge should move to the centre of the record. Add bias until it just "floats" where it was put.

Simples :)

[Barry]

Bias compensation really ought to be set up using a record having a track that has a modulated test tone. Using a blank disc with no grooves is not the best way to set up the bias, as it does not represent typical playing conditions - only the tip of the stylus is touching the bank disc, not the side of the stylus as it would be when running in a record groove.

[Rare Bird]

O dear Richard don't mention the blank record thing as a quick set up, last time i did everyone told me it was bollorxz. i know it's not.

Pick two areas of the record a 1/3rd in & 2/3rd in. Try using a spyglass lift & lower in these areas see if the styli drops in the same place you lift, it obviously wont be perfect within the two different areas but you just make best compensate between the two..

[Graeme]

Or, just go with a linear tracker and forget about bias/anti skate completely :)

[Rare Bird]

woooow that cheetin loike :lol:

[worrasf]

I've been wanting to try one of these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fozgometer-Cartridge-Azimuth-Range-Meter-/290944603862?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43bda656d6 but just cant justify the dollar despite The Absolute Sound's assertion it's "fairly priced"
Anyone got one?

Steve

[Oldpinkman]

It's back to the green marker pen I see...

It is of course a compromise - the force changes across the record - more at the outside, less at the inside. The argument against the blank disc is it doesn't represent the force of the stylus against the groove wall. What - just one wall on the inside pulling it in, and not another one on the outside pulling it out? I am not sure anyone really knows, except that there is no definitive answer. The force is not centrifugal - it is created by the offset in a pivoted arm (none exists in a parallel tracker). It varies with cartridge compliance, and arm length and geometry. James Kogen in 1967 published a study, which concluded among other things that the force on a spherical stylus on a blank disc was directly equivalent to a blank groove. But introduced a whole bunch of variables. My experience is a blank disc tracking neutral at the centre of the playing surface, produces a pretty decent result.

But then there are the practitioners of the mystic arts of "listening" - not to a buzz from a test track, but to the "sweetness" of real material being played. I have even heard before the argument that setting bias (and tracking force) to track a supertrack leaves excessive bias (and tracking force?) for "normal" levels of dynamics which are at a lower average than these extreme tests which represent "freak" conditions at extreme peaks. What was that word beginning with b and ending x Andre? Quite. I think its an excuse for people who like the "musicality" of shit cartridges which can't track for toffee. Are we thinking of anyone DSJR Dave? Never mind - use what works for you.

If I want a boing from my record player - I'll fit a pressed metal parallel sided thin steel subchassis to it.

If I set a Goldring 1022 at 1.8gm and set bias the skating record way, it is a clean test track output - test 3 HFS69 too.

But I wouldn't argue with using a 'scope and a test record if you have one - most people don't. What I wouldn't rely on is that little dial thing which even if "accurate" can't account for cartridge compliance or stylus tip profile, both of which impact on skating force. And that's what a lot of folk do. Bad bias = worn records and stylus, never mind "musicality" losses.

[Oldpinkman]

I've been wanting to try one of these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fozgometer-Cartridge-Azimuth-Range-Meter-/290944603862?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43bda656d6 but just cant justify the dollar despite The Absolute Sound's assertion it's "fairly priced"
Anyone got one?

Steve

Looks lovely - but isn't that testing azimuth?

[Rothchild]

It's relatively easy to setup your pc to work as a reasonable scope for audio frequencies using free 'VST' plugins in an Digital Audio Workstation (DAW)

Scope:
http://sonictransfer.com/free-vstau-oscilloscope.shtml

Then there's:
http://www.stillwellaudio.com/plugins/schwa-plugins/schope/
Which has a goniometer (jellyfish display) for judging left / right balance and phase

And possibly less useful in this context but a great tool to have lying around (I use it to check for eigen mode issues in my studio room and to help assess the effects of room treatment, changes to room set-up)
http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/

[Rare Bird]

just use your lug holes dudes they work wonders:eyebrows:

[Oldpinkman]

If you have a scope and a test record then of course it makes sense to use it. Most don't, and probably won't, and relying on them dodgy dials is not recommended.

I know I like a bit of banter - but I should remember I have a day job, and deadlines before my holiday. And I have to go and listen to some teenage musicians at my wifes school. I need a drink :cool:

[Rothchild]

just use your lug holes dudes they work wonders:eyebrows:

Agreed, but some times it's nice to exercise the grey sponge between them too.

At the risk of igniting a Holy War, which is the best test record and who sells it cheapest?

[worrasf]

Looks lovely - but isn't that testing azimuth?

Indeed, but I would "assume" that if the bias is out then there will be greater output on one channel :confused:

[daytona600]

I've been wanting to try one of these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fozgometer-Cartridge-Azimuth-Range-Meter-/290944603862?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43bda656d6 but just cant justify the dollar despite The Absolute Sound's assertion it's "fairly priced"
Anyone got one?

Steve

http://snvinyl.co.uk/epages/eshop943300.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/eshop943300/Products/FOZG

plus you will need one of these & some change still left

http://snvinyl.co.uk/epages/eshop943300.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/eshop943300/Products/AAPT1

[Rare Bird]

At the risk of igniting a Holy War, which is the best test record and who sells it cheapest?

I have those Hi-Fi Sound discs that came in lots of luverly colours :eyebrows:

[Oldpinkman]

Indeed, but I would "assume" that if the bias is out then there will be greater output on one channel :confused:

I don't think so. The traces are the same size, just with wiggly bits on. And if the wiggly bits do amount to higher output how would you know whether the fault is bias or azimuth? If the device is to be any use as an azimuth calibrator surely it depends on no other setup parameter affecting relative output?
Left /right channels are diagonal stylus displacements with a vertical element. Pressure towards the inside or outside shouldn't affect amplitude per se,
Increased tracking force doesn't make my records louder or quieter. It gets rid of nasty distortions from failing to accurately follow the groove.

The bumf on the gizmo only makes claims for azimuth, not bias. Soz:scratch:

[walpurgis]

just use your lug holes dudes they work wonders:eyebrows:

Andr'e is correct. Test discs and instruments tell part of the story maybe. But each test disc is only somebody's idea of what you should be using to test with and scoping up your cartridge behaviour won't give you the whole story. As mentioned, arm settings can't be relied on, nor can manufacturer recommendations. I'd say find yourself a highly modulated pressing and tinker until it sounds best. With some cartridges though, you could be at it forever.

[Anti Meep]

Crikey I'm itching to get into this one but I've had a couple so I'd better sideline myself for a wee while.....
And crack another:barrel:

[Gordon Steadman]

Interesting thread.

I just bung a record on and listen to the music:eyebrows:

I spent years agonising about having everything set up 'just so'. Got bored with all that and remembered how much I used to enjoy the very basic systems I started out with (with which I started out) and wondered if I had got lost somewhere.

I have to admit that 'near enough' now sums up my world view. I guess I learned to relax.



But what I really really hate is rubbish wine and poorly cooked food - now that is important, I could throw a wobbly about that any day of the week.

[Anti Meep]

:D
Interesting thread.

I just bung a record on and listen to the music:eyebrows:

I spent years agonising about having everything set up 'just so'. Got bored with all that and remembered how much I used to enjoy the very basic systems I started out with (with which I started out) and wondered if I had got lost somewhere.

I have to admit that 'near enough' now sums up my world view. I guess I learned



But what I really really hate is rubbish wine and poorly cooked food - now that is important, I could throw a wobbly about that any day of the week.


Bang on old bean! You just saved me the task of getting my own cogs in gear!
Particularly in concurrence with the last bit.:cool:

[Oldpinkman]

Gordon.
You may have some fascist ideas about speakers, but good to see you have your other priorities in order. Broadly i agree. Sillyscopes are ok, and interesting for confirming a clean signal, but "there abouts" is enough. I am a bit wary of the "just listen to the music" because I grew up in a world where it was a justification for elite status coloured product with poor performance. And justifying poor trackers.
I think it helps to have a ballpark guide and the skating stylus on a smooth disc is pretty good and pretty easy one. Dials on arms, including the beloved sl1200 are not (I set up on the dial, listened, went ouch, and checked with hfs69 to confirm)

A lot of people rely on the dials. Apart from the possible audible tracking distortions, you rip through stylii if the skate is badly out.
Look after that technics of yours. It tracks at 1.25g and will track anything.

The tip was supposed to be the only tool you need is a 12" laser disc for 99p from ebay.

On much more important subjects it is my 4th wedding anniversary (2nd wedding) today. Look it up. I bought sue a huge bouquet of pink flowers from the florist who covered our wedding. Sharing gordons priorities she bought me a half case of fleurie :)

[Gordon Steadman]

On much more important subjects it is my 4th wedding anniversary (2nd wedding) today. Look it up. I bought sue a huge bouquet of pink flowers from the florist who covered our wedding. Sharing gordons priorities she bought me a half case of fleurie :)

Yes indeedy. Congratulations. I'm on my second marriage, not to mention one or two unofficial liaisons over the years. We have been wed for ten years now and together for twelve. Best of the lot and I'm very happy that she has chosen me to spend the last bit with (well, one hopes!!!) The important things in life need nurturing so have a nice one and a drop of the Fleurie for me:)

(I'd have done red flowers though, never did like pink:lol::eyebrows:)