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kalozois100
03-05-2009, 09:39
Hi all,
I would like to explore my options for a hard disk based music player for my main lounge set up. Ideally i would like it to have at least 500 gb hard disk, be able to play lossless flac aswell as mp3 and have a coaxial out so i can connect it to my beresford dac and then onto the amp. I have thought of a sqeezebox but prefer to have this set up completely seperate from my pc set up. budget is an issue . a big issue so linn one is out of the question.:(
Some one has recomended an xbox for playing music but i don't know if it can play all audio files :scratch:
I intend to transfer my cds to this hard disk music player. I do not want to transfer my cds to my current pc set up. i think stan mentioned one in another thread but i can't seem to find it when i do a search. i intend to retire my current dvd/cd player as transport for playing audio cds.
Suggestions most welcome. thanks:eyebrows:
kalozois

NRG
03-05-2009, 09:56
The performance requirements for playing music via a squeezebox is surprisingly low, you don't need a fancy PC at all. This means a cheap low cost system will do or perhaps somebody's cast off...

It also means you can locate the PC elsewhere in the house and not clutter up your living space, connection can be via cable or wireless. Control can be local to the SB if you go for the classic or there's the Duet option with the controller or if you have another Internet enable device you can access it via the IP address, I can do this via my smart-phone, a Nintendo DS or the Wii !

A mac mini may be a good idea if you don't like the SB approach but that may push the budget too far?

kalozois100
03-05-2009, 11:34
thanks for the reply Neal.
I have never personally seen or heard the sqeezebox. I do not know anyone who ownes one either. However i have read great things about it and some i gather prefer this method to a top cd transport. On a practical note, i gather it can receive wireless music files digitally. does the pc need to be on all the time ? i guess it would need to. Also what is the range of the wireless signal? eg does it have problems with walls or is the signal strong enough to transmit a long way? my pc set up is about 15 meters away from my lounge music set up. How does the sqeezebox in general work?? Would i have to connect to an external dac via usb or coaxial/optical? I already have a usb to coaxial adapter so that can be used to connect to the beresford dacif need be.
Appologies for the basic questions but i read about the squeezebox on their site and it doesn't seem to inform on the above queries. :confused:
Thanks kalozois

Ali Tait
03-05-2009, 11:55
From what I've read,the SB sounds much better wired up as opposed to wireless.The SB Duet is a lovely bit of kit.Check this out-
https://www.ripcaster.co.uk/node/282

The ripNAS looks good as a storage device.Just put your cd's in and it does the rest.

kalozois100
03-05-2009, 12:23
From what I've read,the SB sounds much better wired up as opposed to wireless.The SB Duet is a lovely bit of kit.Check this out-
https://www.ripcaster.co.uk/node/282

The ripNAS looks good as a storage device.Just put your cd's in and it does the rest.

thanks i had a look at this NAS And it is exactly what i am after. However it is pricey and wondered if anyone has any alternatives eg from chinese market?:scratch:

Ali Tait
03-05-2009, 12:52
There are cheaper solutions available from Maplins,but they won't do everything for you.Guess it depends how computer-savvy you are!

maxrob200
03-05-2009, 13:00
I am using Squeezebox SB3 with Beresford 7520 using a Qnap TS109 II NAS and getting great results streaming FLAC files using wired ethernet

kalozois100
03-05-2009, 13:12
There are cheaper solutions available from Maplins,but they won't do everything for you.Guess it depends how computer-savvy you are!

Yep your right i want to have my cake and eat at the same time. :doh:

Ali Tait
03-05-2009, 13:17
I know several people who are happy with qnap.I believe Stan uses a media player from Maplins and is happy with it.

kalozois100
03-05-2009, 13:18
I am using Squeezebox SB3 with Beresford 7520 using a Qnap TS109 II NAS and getting great results streaming FLAC files using wired ethernet

Thanks. I will have a problem using wired ethernet as i have the office some 15 meters away where my pc set up is. gather it is best to use ethernet instead of wireless but i have no way of getting a cable from one room to the other. i suppose i could use an access point in the lounge for the sb3 but have no idea about doing this in practice.
I think i like the idea more of a hard disk juke box player that will be connected to the stereo system in the lounge . perhaps if i settle for mp3 file playback i will have more options?:scratch:

o.k surfing around i have come across this item up for consideration :-
http://www.tradestead.com/wholesale/portable-hdd-players/3-5-inch-hard-disk-multimedia-player-p-4012.html
it has connections for a tv so i would be able to connect to the lcd tv to look at the songs to pick aswell. Seems like a good price too. I 'll do some more research on it ..........

Ali Tait
03-05-2009, 13:27
Just buy a long cable and either drill holes in the walls or run it round the rooms and through doors.

kalozois100
03-05-2009, 13:44
Just buy a long cable and either drill holes in the walls or run it round the rooms and through doors.

:doh: If i did that this is what i will get from the misses!!!!!!! :chainsaw:

Ali Tait
03-05-2009, 16:44
If you do it carefully,running the cable along skirting boards etc,you can make a very neat job that will be almost unnoticeable.

jester
03-05-2009, 23:56
try a ps3 with a bigger hard drive rip to wav and copy works wonders for me havn't listened to a cd for over two years!

ps3 into dac u like into amps u like etc.....

sastusbulbas
04-05-2009, 07:16
Mentioning your budget would help.

One cheap option.

Popcorn Hour, and a 500gb drive.

http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/

Hard drives vary in price and shopping around can get even better deals, I got a 640gb drive for 50 some time ago, and prices fluctuate. In my opinion getting a reputable model with morecapacity than required is desireable.

500gb 45, 640gb 65, 750gb 65, 1tb 75

You could build a PC for this too, probably cheaper than the prices below if you shop around, you can even get a case which is like a CD/dvd player for the PC.

Motherboard 60
CPU 60
Memory 20
Hard drive 45
CD drive 15
Sound Card 50
Power supply 35
Case 30

Or buy second hand or use any old kit?

I have an old PC built from old bits in the bedroom, small case, but out of sight. Running an M-Audio sound card and basic ATI graphics card. I use it for music and movies through a projector, it gives a better picture than the Denon DVD player that was in there.

I also have an old Mac G4, with a small hard drive and old OS which still plays music.

None of them need a large hard drive as I can connect an external HD to my router, letting all the computers in the house share a central location.

kalozois100
04-05-2009, 10:26
thanks jester and sastsubulbas . i'll look into your both suggestions. ....

Ah yes my budget is around 300 pound sterling. The play station sound interesting and i'll need one sooner or later as the children are growing up and enjoy playing on their cousins ps3.


Jester Does the ps3 come with different size hard disks or did you upgrade the hard disk yourself? Whats the highest gbs hard disk the ps3 will accept??

jester
04-05-2009, 12:07
there are different models of the ps3 I have the 40 gig ps3 and replaced the hard drive with a 250 gig. You have to use a 2.5 inch sata drive i belive you can get a 500 gig hard drive now.

fitting is very easy in fact there instructions for it. I use opitical out into my dac. Personaly i rip into atrac (hangover from mini disc) the PS3 will support wav files and i have a couple of files ripped into that. Album art was a little painful ended up copying it from albumart into the pictures folder and then editing the album. Time consuming but simple enough to do. :)

kalozois100
04-05-2009, 16:43
thanks jester. ps3 looks like the most likely way forward for me . also i can have same music files on my pc in the office to listen to music in there and to back up the music files on the ps3. whats the ps3 like as a transport for music files? Is it as good as pc streaming with foobar and asio4all?? Also is there coaxial out of ps3 as i prefer coax. to optical and have recently purchased a most excellent belden type one from markgrant.
regards,
kalozois

NRG
04-05-2009, 20:35
thanks for the reply Neal.
I have never personally seen or heard the sqeezebox. I do not know anyone who ownes one either. However i have read great things about it and some i gather prefer this method to a top cd transport. On a practical note, i gather it can receive wireless music files digitally. does the pc need to be on all the time ? i guess it would need to. Also what is the range of the wireless signal? eg does it have problems with walls or is the signal strong enough to transmit a long way? my pc set up is about 15 meters away from my lounge music set up. How does the sqeezebox in general work?? Would i have to connect to an external dac via usb or coaxial/optical? I already have a usb to coaxial adapter so that can be used to connect to the beresford dacif need be.
Appologies for the basic questions but i read about the squeezebox on their site and it doesn't seem to inform on the above queries. :confused:
Thanks kalozois

The PC only needs to be on when playing the library, you can setup the SB to use the squeezenetwork to access internet radio without the PC switched on.

Also the SB supports wake-on-lan....IE you power up the SB and it sends a wake up packet over the network to the server bringing it out of standby. You can set the server to enter standby after a predetermined time of inactivity via the power saving configuration options...setting this via XP is very easy.

You can buy from Ebuyer a pre-built PC for just under 200 quid inc VAT and delivery, forget building one. They have a Proliant server with 160GB drive and 1GB memory and also a desktop Celeron based PC with a 320GB drive for the same price...no OS though but Keyboard and mouse included.

Wireless range depends on the router and also how far away it is from the SB IE how many walls etc will the signal pass through...if you have a laptop and can connect to the router from the same location as where the SB would live then you should be OK. You can also bridge routers or buy an extender/repeater to increase the range if it proves to be a problem.

You can use the SB with an external DAC or it has it's own inbuilt...it's not brilliant but that depends on what your expectations are...

Class
05-05-2009, 09:30
From what I've read,the SB sounds much better wired up as opposed to wireless.
No. Unless your wireless connection is bad, there's no difference.
Some people will gladly sell you a $1000 CAT5 cable and claim it's a huge upgrade in sound quality. These people have zero knowledge in TCP-IP and networking in general.


Due to network congestion, traffic load balancing, or other unpredictable network behavior, IP packets can be lost or delivered out of order. TCP detects these problems, requests retransmission of lost packets, rearranges out-of-order packets, and even helps minimize network congestion to reduce the occurrence of the other problems. Once the TCP receiver has finally reassembled a perfect copy of the data originally transmitted, it passes that datagram to the application program. Thus, TCP abstracts the application's communication from the underlying networking details.(Wikipedia)


The SB Duet is a lovely bit of kit.
The SB3 (now Classic) has a better DAC than the Duet IIRC.

Ali Tait
05-05-2009, 12:02
I woudn't consider using any SB without a separate DAC.As for the connection question,everone I've spoken to who has tried it both ways says wired is better.

chrism
05-05-2009, 12:51
Hi,

Sorry to buck the trend but I cannot hear any difference wired or wireless as long as the signal is good. I have a PC running wireless to a router and Squeezebox also wireless and it sounds brill through one of Stan's DAC's.

Regards

Chris

Class
06-05-2009, 06:31
As for the connection question,everone I've spoken to who has tried it both ways says wired is better.That's very impressive. They've all done ABX testing I assume?

Clive
06-05-2009, 07:15
That's very impressive. They've all done ABX testing I assume?
On no, don't start this ABX stuff......ABX is a short term listening comparison, which for me just does not cut it as I look for long term enjoyment. I can hear differences with short term comparisons but what those differences mean long term is not always obvious. I would add that some differences only become obvious after listening over a longer period, probably because you're not listening out for that particular difference in the first place.

kalozois100
07-05-2009, 16:28
Okay folks I have decided after much consideration on a squeezbox classic in my quest to find a hard disk music player.
the ps3 was a strong contender as it plays games, blue ray and has a hard disk too. however its a more expensive option especially if i upgrade to a bigger hard disk. i would like to thank you all for your advice in this thread and helping me decide what to get.
okay, now does any one know the cheapest place on the net to buy a squeezebox 3 classic that also posts abroad within e.u.?
I have seen ripcaster advertise them at 155.99 . I sent them an email to find out if they post to Cyprus and am waiting a reply.
I will also consider a second hand one.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Kalozois

Just found this seller on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Logitech-Squeezebox-Classic-Network-Music-Player-BNIB_W0QQitemZ250356931850QQihZ015QQcategoryZ81741 QQcmdZViewItem

Ali Tait
07-05-2009, 18:27
That's very impressive. They've all done ABX testing I assume?


Fine,you have your opinion,I'll have mine.One thing I certainly do not appreciate however,is your condescending tone.Were you taught any manners as a child?

twelvebears
07-05-2009, 18:48
Hi Kalozois

Have responded to your PM.

Regards

jester
08-05-2009, 12:12
[QUOTE=kalozois100;44813]Okay folks I have decided after much consideration on a squeezbox classic in my quest to find a hard disk music player.
the ps3 was a strong contender as it plays games, blue ray and has a hard disk too. however its a more expensive option especially if i upgrade to a bigger hard disk. i would like to thank you all for your advice in this thread and helping me decide what to get.
okay, now does any one know the cheapest place on the net to buy a squeezebox 3 classic that also posts abroad within e.u.?
I have seen ripcaster advertise them at 155.99 . I sent them an email to find out if they post to Cyprus and am waiting a reply.
I will also consider a second hand one.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Kalozois

Good to hear that you've made a decision enjoy

captain
08-05-2009, 13:36
Have you looked at any of the TViX products LINK (http://www.tvix.co.kr/Eng/products/4100sh.aspx) You can put any size hard drive in you want, can also use wireless from your computer(need to buy blue tooth dongle). Better with a monitor/TV, but has a better on board screen interface then the Squeeze Box and is really nice for file searching. Has every connection you will every need. Can copy and paste and delete files. Even plays hi def movies. I picked one up with a 500mb hard drive and HDTV module for around 200 off flea bay. A cracker of a product for hard drive music playing. If you look around you can find 4100sh new with 500mb hard drive for your budget.

Class
08-05-2009, 15:49
One thing I certainly do not appreciate however,is your condescending tone.Were you taught any manners as a child?I didn't mean to come across as condescending, I should have used a smiley in my reply, sorry about that.

If there is a difference in sound quality wired vs. wireless, it is minimal at best and when you said "everyone" you talked to could hear it I chuckled to myself :)

TCP/IP is very robust with checksumming/retransmissions etc. (see the Wikipedia link for a little more information) and packets out == packets in, unless there is something wrong with the link/buffer and if that's the case a wired link could have issues as well.

Regardless of what happens to the wireless signal on the way to the player, it should be verified and re-ordered/re-transmitted before it fills the input buffer, exactly the same way a wired signal would.

Now, I used to be a hi-fi nerd, regularly getting into heated discussions with engineers that claimed cables -as long as they were properly dimensioned- all sounded the same.

This is a different issue IMO, IP packets are easy to measure and bits doesn't change slightly :)

Class
08-05-2009, 15:53
Just found this seller on ebay Just be careful, I've seen a few people buying demo models of SB3s that couldn't do anything but show the pretty display.

I'm sure you'll like the SB a lot when you get one, happy hunting! :)

Ali Tait
08-05-2009, 19:32
In that case,sorry for getting on my high horse! Yet another case of the internet getting in the way of context.I freely admit to being a computer numpty! You clearly know far more than I about such things.All I can say is that peeps who's ears I trust say they think it sounds better wired.Whether it does or not I can't say,though what I understand of your comments makes sense.I'm interested in this as it's a route I intend to go down at some point,when I can decide which way to go!

Peter Stockwell
11-05-2009, 11:21
I woudn't consider using any SB without a separate DAC.As for the connection question,everone I've spoken to who has tried it both ways says wired is better.

I've never done the comparison, it's not possible at mine. But a microwave oven will disrupt the SB3 buffering in Wireless mode. My wifi network is at 60% signal strength in the lounge, and apart from the microwave giving drop outs from time to time, I find the playback more than adequate.

Going back to the original posters question, one of those western digital

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&sku=587682&Q=&is=REG&A=details

might be an intersting alternative, but I imagine some kind of screen is required to make choices.

StanleyB
11-05-2009, 15:41
A decent contender is the Freecom 350 and 450. They are wireless HD media servers and have a digital coax output. I have just bought a 350 to try out for myself.

Stan

kalozois100
11-05-2009, 15:59
A decent contender is the Freecom 350 and 450. They are wireless HD media servers and have a digital coax output. I have just bought a 350 to try out for myself.

Stan

I was interested in this but backed out when i read it doesn't play wave or flac files. :(

StanleyB
11-05-2009, 16:37
I don't have problems with mp3 for most of my music. The 'good' stuff I still prefer on CD anyhow.

Stan

kalozois100
13-05-2009, 16:58
Now this piece of kit looks very promising:eyebrows:


http://whathifi.com/Review/HD-Digitech-HDX-1000-1TB/

Peter Stockwell
14-05-2009, 15:02
Although there’s much detail to surround soundtracks, we found music playback to be rather lacklustre.Although there’s much detail to surround soundtracks, we found music playback to be rather lacklustre.


This would make me hesitate right from the off, but OTOH, if you use a DAC it's probably not an issue.

kalozois100
14-05-2009, 16:23
Thanks for the warning I hadn't come across that piece of info:lolsign: