New Carts, where should I start? [Archive]

Rothchild

03-07-2013, 14:51

I've just taken delivering of the first couple of a bit of a random cart shop today, I'm now the proud owner of a Rega Elys 2 and a P55 from a fellow forumite here (apparently put together just up the road from where I live!)

I'm also expecting a couple of dodgy old Shure carts for a bit of fun, they should be with me tomorrow (N75 and M55).

So, I thought a small poll for the experts here to see what suggestions for where I should start, what I should be looking for and for any last minute tips or gotchas that I should bear in mind when fitting and running these new beasties on my Systemdek.

Whadyareckon?

Rothchild

03-07-2013, 17:15

Hah! First gotcha.

The Elys isn't as tall as the ortofon it replaced so by band 2 it's skipping about and when we get to band 3 it doesn't even touch the record anymore! Should I raise the platter (or lower the arm) somehow?

Rothchild

04-07-2013, 16:31

Oh well, I've given up on the Elys for now (until I can work out how to make it 'reach' the record all the way across!) But I'm very much enjoying the P77, definitely a step up from the OM cart. Might even spring for a JICO stylus for it....

Still no sign of the Shures and cos the Elys isn't operable I can't just yet offer any comparative analysis of them all.

walpurgis

04-07-2013, 16:35

Rothchild

04-07-2013, 16:41

Use a spacer!

Yeah fair enough, what sort and where? Will a couple of washers under the headshell be sufficient (or too heavy)? (or a bit of cardboard or some other material that I might have ready to hand?)

walpurgis

04-07-2013, 18:34

Yeah fair enough, what sort and where? Will a couple of washers under the headshell be sufficient (or too heavy)? (or a bit of cardboard or some other material that I might have ready to hand?)

Really a headshell spacer would need to be of a fairly stiff and inert material like Paxolin or Tufnol.

I have plenty and I could make a spacer easily enough. Work out roughly how much less tall the Rega cartridge is compared to the Ortofon and tell me and I'll send you one.

Rothchild

04-07-2013, 18:54

Really a headshell spacer would need to be of a fairly stiff and inert material like Paxolin or Tufnol.

I thought they were cricketers! ;-)

Seriously though, that would be mighty kind of you if you could. It needs to be 6mm.

walpurgis

04-07-2013, 20:00

Are you sure it's that much? Sounds a lot. I may have to use an alternative material, hard plastic, hardwood or aluminium.

synsei

04-07-2013, 21:05

6mm? :eek:

Rothchild

05-07-2013, 06:33

Yeah, I put the the OM and the Elys on their backs on the table top. The tip of the stylus on the OM is 19mm from the table top, the Elys stylus tip is only 13mm from the table top. The OM is just the right hight, when I had it fitted the top of the headshell was nice and flat relative to the record surface.

walpurgis

05-07-2013, 09:31

OK, I'll come up with something!

walpurgis

10-07-2013, 16:16

Two 3mm paxolin cartridge spacers!

http://i42.tinypic.com/dtt8l.jpg

Rothchild

10-07-2013, 22:20

Ooh exciting!

On a related note, does anyone have any tips on where to source suitable longer bolts without having to buy 'hifi' ones? (what am I looking for in screwfix? ;-))I don't want to pay a tenner for a bag of ones I won't use all of, couple of quid should do it surely?

walpurgis

10-07-2013, 22:45

I'll bung a couple of long high tensile black nylon ones with nuts in for you. I've got loads, just cut them to length with a craft knife!

They do up very tight and don't scratch headshells.

Rothchild

11-07-2013, 07:25

I'd be very much obliged Geoff, sounds ideal - especially as a I plan to do a bit of swapping around in the near future.

I've been enjoying the P77 (certainly better than the OM cart with eliptical stylus, not dramatically so but better nevertheless) but I'm looking forward to getting the Elys on (and also the 2 cheapo shures I've got too).

twotone

11-07-2013, 08:17

I've been enjoying the P77 (certainly better than the OM cart with eliptical stylus, not dramatically so but better nevertheless) but I'm looking forward to getting the Elys on (and also the 2 cheapo shures I've got too).

I was actually amazed at how good that cart sounded on my TT with stock arm, great bass but a wee bit unrefined I thought.

Certainly the best of the cheaper carts I've tried recently.

DSJR

11-07-2013, 09:38

The Elys is a funny one and not a favourite of mine, confirmed when I acquired a minter a cou0ple of years back. The mid and top actually measure fairly flat and the good quality diamond is another bonus for low surface noise and longish life, but the bass is too prominant and can so easily sound thick and a bit clogged, although the current version is better than the old grey model I have. The best Rega fixed-coil by a substantia;l margin is the Exact IMO...

Rothchild

13-07-2013, 10:53

Now that's what I call service! Spacers and bolts arrived this morning and I've just frankenlashed the whole lot up:

http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t575/elkhanos/IMG_20130713_114040_zps7eaf60c2.jpg (http://s1314.photobucket.com/user/elkhanos/media/IMG_20130713_114040_zps7eaf60c2.jpg.html)

Seen here playing The Cure's 'Friday I'm in Love' and we've now moved on to The Meters (as that's the record which seems to cause the most trouble in this setup) and it's coping well. Gonna listen some more and maybe offer more feedback later.

Thanks again to Geoff for taking the time and effort to make and post me the spacers, what a gent.

RobbieGong

13-07-2013, 10:57

walpurgis

13-07-2013, 20:22

Glad it worked out!

Shaky hands, or no 'macro' setting on the camera?

Rothchild

14-07-2013, 13:18

Ooh, hello bass! Just swapped in the Shure N75ED, it's a lot more workmanlike around the treble but a nice fat tone overall.

Clive197

21-07-2013, 11:25

I don't understand why your Elys won't reach band 3. I get the fact that your VTA will be way off with the arm nose down but that should not effect how far into the record the arm tracks.
Assuming the VTA on your arm is not if at all easy to alter, a spacer would be the answer. You may find you have similar issues with the Shure cartridges. Hope you solve the problem and have fun playing.

Rothchild

22-07-2013, 12:50

I don't understand why your Elys won't reach band 3.

The VTA was so far down that the arm was basically running itself up the lifter (with the lever down) and ended up floating off the top of the record!

I've got a couple of spacers now and had a test with the Elys, I've also been trying the N75 and an M55. I think I quite like the Shure house sound (I'm guessing there is one as there's certainly a family resemblance between these two). I only had the Elys on for a couple of days so I think I'm going to head back that way for while this afternoon.

DSJR

22-07-2013, 15:45

If you like the M75-ED, then try for a V15-T2 with good original stylus, as it sounds family-similar but rather better (clearer) overall. In an older Rega "RB" arm, set the bias to around a third what it says, so off (as much as it can be on the slider) for the ED and any other 1g tracker.

As I recall, the Elys and its cheaper brethren, have a basically flat response from the upper bass to hf, but it's the mid to lower bass where things take a nose-dive, the response rising quite noticeably I remember (and still hear) and giving a squidgey kind of presentation. Although this is better in the later models, only the Exact model tames it just enough to be listenable to long term, especially if your speakers have proper bass extension below 100Hz or so..

P.S. What deck and arm combo are you using please? I'd almost be inclined to get a thicker turntable mat rather than the awful looking lashup you have in the headshell. Sorry, but I do have just a little experience here ;)

Rothchild

22-07-2013, 16:11

P.S. What deck and arm combo are you using please? I'd almost be inclined to get a thicker turntable mat rather than the awful looking lashup you have in the headshell. Sorry, but I do have just a little experience here ;)

Thanks Dave, yes I'd considered raising the record with thicker mat (or 2) just got to find something suitable.

It's a Systemdek iix900 with an RB300 (Moth) arm, I bought it from Datawireless recently.

I've just put the Elys back on, it's definitely more refined through the top end but for sheer entertainment value the shure carts were something of a bargain. V15s seem to be climbing up in price at the moment so I may have to have an evaluate of what I've got here and see if I can trade up.

Rothchild

23-07-2013, 12:09

I note that the M97 is supposedly the contemporary replacement for the V15, does anyone have any views on its performance in comparison to the vintage cart and it's likelyhood of being a good match for my rig?

Nigel

23-07-2013, 17:49

Has the Systemdek got the acrylic platter or standard felt mat?

Rothchild

23-07-2013, 20:36

Has the Systemdek got the acrylic platter or standard felt mat?

Glass platter, felt mat (not standard, nothing special a dj one). Also have a cork one available.

DSJR

23-07-2013, 20:51

The M97 was a sort-of cut price V15xMR with elliptical tip I think, or rather, the V15xMR was a race tuned M97HE with MR diamond :) A good 97 should offer a meaty but tuneful bass and an almost sweet treble, which shouldn't emphasise surface noise. We sold many 97HE's at the time, in old SME's and new RB equipped Rega arms too.