ClarityCaps MR 3.3

[Tarzan]

Has anyone used these Caps? l had them installed in my Virtue Audio Sensation Tripath amplifier ( this is a highly recommended upgrade from the manufacturers) themselves) they are very BIG, how long do these take to run in? l preferred the amp as it sounded before:brickwall:, so l hoping for some magic and it ain't happening.... at least not at the moment:hmm:

[istari_knight]

What did they replace ?

[Tarzan]

Sonicap 2.2

[system7]

Capacitor upgrades are a source of endless fascination. But don't expect miracles. Polypropylenes are much of a muchness IMO.

The received wisdom is that the HUGE 600V, and upwards, grades sound better, but size may affect common mode effects too. As for "burning in" capacitors, well, forget about it! Audio hoey!

A big capacitor will couple to earth more effectively, and may even raise issues of polarity since the outer layer should be on the earth side.

It is hard to estimate the effects of replacing a smallish 2.2uF 250V with a large 3.3uF 600V. It depends what the function is in the circuit.

Since this is a compact Class D or Class T amplifier, which relies on sending unwanted high frequencies to ground, I'd need a schematic to estimate effects here.

The answer often lies in asking the question clearly. It may be that a very different bypass capacitor works better. This is what we do at radio frequencies. :)

I would also consider the high frequency impedance of the loudspeaker with Class D.

[Ali Tait]

Not my experience at all, I've found poly caps to be very variable, and I've certainly found them to have a running in period, some taking considerably longer than others. I'd be patient and get around a couple of hundred hours on them before finally making up your mind.

[Tarzan]

Not my experience at all, I've found poly caps to be very variable, and I've certainly found them to have a running in period, some taking considerably longer than others. I'd be patient and get around a couple of hundred hours on them before finally making up your mind.


There is definitely a difference in sound- it has taken several steps backwards! Been informed by people this morning who have fitted them in the same application say they do take ages ( 100hrs +:scratch:) then you have the sound but right now it ain't happening have around 30hrs, as l said in an earlier post these things are big and just about fitted inside the amplifier, but not happy with the sound.

[istari_knight]

Yeah I've found different brands of MKP's sound different when used for coupling even though there should be no audible difference. I even went against popular opinion/accepted wisdom & tried tantalums for coupling... quite liked them :mental:

[system7]

One has to wonder what it is that changes in a polypropylene capacitor as it ages, or burns in. :mental:

The dielectric certainly shouldn't change, though perhaps an oxide layer might form on aluminium as time goes by, which is Lynn Olson's idea.

Alan Shaw of Harbeth has moved away from non-polar electrolytics in favour of MKT (Polyester) or even MKP (polypropylene).

He guides you to think about it for yourself here:
http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?1335-Refurbish-capacitors-inside-speaker-crossovers

Certainly, non-polars degrade with age, they dry out. At radio frequencies it is common to use an additional bypass capacitor of ceramic or tantalum, which bypasses the self inductance of capacitors and keeps them honest. This really shouldn't be an issue at audio frequencies however. Clarity Cap claim to have found a tendency for capacitors to sing at about 15kHz, but this really depends on the load factor IMO. Above the corner frequency, a capacitor is effectively a short and that's the end of it.

[Reffc]

That was an excellent series of explanations by Alan and his reasoning seems pretty much spot on (which is what you'd expect from him!).

Non -polars used to be extensively used but their disadvantages largely outweigh the advantages which are cost and size.

Of the rest, polyprops and polyesters are more limited in values but since most passive crossovers rarely need the higher value caps, it's rarely a big issue.

As to sonic differences between them, then as Alan says, there is no reason why there should be any, although it may be worth bearing in mind the tolerance and performance of some caps changes with frequency and rating, so changing (increasing) cap values sometimes has a bearing on sonics for that reason.

It is both dangerous (as in misleading) advice and inappropriate though to give blanket recommendations for capacitors used in crossovers because the crossover/driver relationship is the key and depending upon design, what is right for one combination almost certainly will not be right for another. Unless you have loads of time on your hands and a measurement mic (as I had when developing my own crossovers), you won't be able to accurately determine the effects on your driver/room set up of varying types/combinations of capacitors and inductor types, so you pays your money and makes your choice. My advice would be to buy reasonably priced polyesters or polyprops for crossovers of the original values if refurbishing, then dont worry too much about it. If you have more time, then it can be interesting to see what, if any, the effects of trying various types, but I'd be willing to bet that the ratings have a larger effect given that the correct (original) capacitance values are used.

Then we have the circular arguments over resistors which is a whole other topic....or is it? :eyebrows:

[Tarzan]

Mmmmm 50 hrs on the ClarityCaps and the sound is getting more fulsome and smoother but not as smooth and musical pre cap upgrade...watch this space.

[goraman]

Clarity caps are ok,the ESA are in my DAC,as a coupling cap Clairity caps are not known for there dynamics when used as a coupling cap, they do work very well in speaker x overs as they are smooth,warm and don't add color perfect for tweeters.
I will put these in my dac http://www.partsconnexion.com/ALEX-75179.html after some other priority's are amortized.

[Rare Bird]

I tried a lot of Boutique caps years ago when i was madly into Hi-Fi only to find total dissapointment with the majority..I could only get on with Ansar 'supersound'

[system7]

I do try to reach some sort of definite idea with these forum ramblings about components. :)

The estimable Troels Gravesen had some boutique capacitors apart. They actually ARE DIFFERENT to regular polypropylenes:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/super-caps.htm

Series coupled interwound at 4 times the size of regular MKPs. :scratch:

Well, what that boils down to, IMO, is that they don't couple to earth in the same way as the regular jobbies. Less common mode if you like. The alternative is just to use smaller MKT polyester types, which have less size and common mode in the first place. Rather Harbeth! :lol:

However, since Andy (Tarzan) hasn't stated what function the caps are performing in the amp, this is all a bit vague really. :doh:

FWIW, we had a good discussion about low inductance wirewound resistors elsewhere. In fact on the regular 10 turns or so of these components, inductance is really negligeable compared to voicecoil inductance even without special measures. Tweeters typically have a hundred turns or more and as we all SHOULD KNOW, inductance is proportional to the SQUARE of the number of turns. So the definite conclusion about resistors, is that only the resistor that acts near radio frequencies should really matter. This would be the resistor shorting the tweeter, either as say a 22 ohm Fs damper or a 7.5 ohm zobel.

[goraman]

I agree with Andre the Ansar Supersound with silver leads are very honest for the money, they are very analog sounding and don't get the respect they deserve in hifi circles.
I won a huge lot of them on ebay and gave them to a friend who builds amps and he likes them alot.
They will never offend your ears much like clarity caps they are smooth and become sweet in the mids after leting them burn in what seems to be forever (300 to 400 hours)
I used clarity cap SA in an old pair of Mission 762i for our Solon / store to play music after using them sparingly at home I thought they where cooked in but after running them for 10 hours a day 7 days a week they changed and really softened the upper mids making for a pleasant sounding little speaker.
For those who claim caps don't break in, just haven't given them the time or they have no sense of sonic micro detail.

[Ali Tait]

Be patient Andy, they can and do take hundreds of hours to run in, in my experience. They will start sounding nicer, and then go back to sounding crap, I've heard this with several makes. How about leaving the amp on all the time with a low level signal through it at night?

[Ali Tait]

Think yourself lucky you didn't buy teflons, they take even longer!

[goraman]

Speaker cross over caps can also be elucive .
I have known people who changed speakers so much they never had a chance to settle in.
Seems crazy to spend loads of money on someting only to sell it off and try something just as expencive with out giving it at least half a year settle in.

[Yomanze]

Has anyone used these Caps? l had them installed in my Virtue Audio Sensation Tripath amplifier ( this is a highly recommended upgrade from the manufacturers) themselves) they are very BIG, how long do these take to run in? l preferred the amp as it sounded before:brickwall:, so l hoping for some magic and it ain't happening.... at least not at the moment:hmm:

I have some mil-spec Russian PIO + Teflon bypass caps that you can try. Salas at DIYAudio.com prefers these same caps to Mundorf Silver Supreme. Very musical, rich and full of life.

[Tarzan]

Be patient Andy, they can and do take hundreds of hours to run in, in my experience. They will start sounding nicer, and then go back to sounding crap, I've heard this with several makes. How about leaving the amp on all the time with a low level signal through it at night?


Will do mate!:)

[The Black Adder]

I use em in my crossovers... big jobbie's too.

They are great but first impressions are not that good in some cases, they really do need bedding in. But once that is done the sound seems to grab you with something different each time... I'm really liking them. Very good indeed.. Marco will I'm sure pop a note on this too...

I use 15uf, 1.5uf and 6.8uf. HFC now have the 400v versions too.. For the 3.3uf I use Jensen Copper paper in oil. Moocho recommendo.

[The Black Adder]

+1 for the russian 'cold war' grenade style caps. I have been using some in my xovers for a while now and to be honest they are bloody great. Cost me £8 each. They are paper in lavsin oil! or something and sound mega.

[Tarzan]

I have some mil-spec Russian PIO + Teflon bypass caps that you can try. Salas at DIYAudio.com prefers these same caps to Mundorf Silver Supreme. Very musical, rich and full of life.


Thanks for the kind offer Neil, but frankly l would not know what to do with them, but they are sounding a lot better now, but to be honest l was expecting ho hum.

[Tarzan]

Right, the Claritys have been in a while now, and in that time, l purchased the next Model up in the Sensation amplifier range ( M901) this has better internal cabling and upgraded binding posts and RCA's but stock capacitors and the two amps do indeed sound different, l also purchased some Audionote ANJ/D's and the Sensation loves the extra sensitivity, so that now with the M451 ( with CC's sounds really,really good) the background is blacker? Playing Led Zeppelin's "Houses of the Holy", these boys were playing! It really has taken the M451 up a notch or two, but not in away l would have expected, leaner, meaner not as romantic, but a good deal better, another interesting thing is once the M451 is unplugged, it takes hours to sound good again, is this due to the bigger beefier Caps l wonder? Anyway just a few thoughts.:)

[Sovereign]

I am about to re build my crossovers using clarity caps, does anyone know if it is possible to 'pre burn in' caps?