View Full Version : Cartridge, Arm questions...
Gentlemen,
I have a few questions and hopefully you can help -
My SL-1200MK2 project is about to begin in earnest. (I sold most of my excess gear yesterday and am properly funded to see the project through.)
As it currently sits the turntable has a Denon DL-110, Acromat (wonderful) and rests upon Viprapods and the stock feet. I.E., I haven't done much.
I will order Isonoes today, as well as a tonearm rewire kit.
The PSU will be DIY upgraded, externalizing the transformer, some caps replaced, and the internal regulator upgraded to something modern, likely a LM317. Whilst I'm in there, the strobe will have a switch added. This will occur as soon as I find an enclosure I like.
Cartridge - The DL-110 is quite nice, but I would like to try a MC. I have plenty of gain, here is my phonostage - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/204336-building-pearl-2-a.html
Has anybody tried an Audio-Technica OC9ML/II or AT33EV on the stock arm? Is it a good compliance match? I am also thinking about a DL-103 or -103R. Comments?
Lastly, I am seriously considering jumping in with both feet and getting the Jelco-750 arm. I have read countless posts and rarely find anything other than wholehearted praise and love for the arm. I'm wondering if the Jelco really is that much better than the stock arm (with Cardas rewire) Also, what is the difference in compliance, could there be a cart that works quite well in one that will not in the other.
The end goal is to have a TT that I will be happy with for a long time. My previous, a Planar25 served me wonderfully for the last decade. I would like the Techie to do the same, preferably longer, with the added benefit of allowing it to be a DIY project as well.
Opinions, experiences, suggestions and comments are all welcome. Thank you.
Ok, you have the all-important Achromat and the PSU is the next natural upgrade. Externalising it is good. I hesitate to recommend an LM317 as it's not the best for current demand or noise performance. Take a look at one of Paul Hynes' regulators, or even the Dexa range.
The Jelco is an excellent arm and will match all those carts. Otherwise, stick to high output with the stock arm.
Oldpinkman
26-06-2013, 14:47
I can't comment on the cartridge, but I am about to dabble with moving coils again. But I can comment on arms. There is a lot more to arms than the wires they use. They are fundamental to the sound from a record player in 2 ways. The first you referred to , is that the compliance of the cartridge and the mass of the arm form a resonant system, and mis-matching can create problems. My understanding is the stock technics arm is pretty tolerant of a fairly wide range of cartridges. The 2nd issue is flexion and ringing in the arm tube (AK would point out there are others too, like bearing quality, counterweight resonance, balance stability, and anti-skate accuracy - and he'd be right, but you can really hear arm tubes). I presume somewhere in the knowledge is an explanation of why - but its to do with needing the cartridge to be mounted on a stable platform which allows the stylus to move relative to a fixed rather than moving point. Ages ago Martin Colloms in one of the HiFi Choice turntable guides did a really good analogy of the distances and forces involved in a tiny diamond stuck on a bloody great rod, trying to get information out of a groove
I speculated that the biggest weakness on the SL1200 I tried (with achromat) was the arm, and got taken to task a little, so I have arranged to borrow an SL1200 with standard arm, and an identical unit with an F5 fitted (and I rather think I am going to get one of the new FXR3's to play with too). My mission was to report back to Tony in Glasgow on his question of "will the arm or phono stage make the bigger difference". So I am also using an old Nad 3020 to compare against my Pip at the same time. But I think the answer is going to be "both make a difference, and you are going to want both some day - neither is the obvious first to upgrade"
I am also getting to borrow a new Funk technics platter - a significant improvement on their current acrylic technics platter. I think for good measure I am getting a couple of LSD's with different arms too, since AK wants me to evaluate for him if I am borrowing his kit to evaluate for AOS.
Whilst I won't have a Jelco in all this mix, and will just use the same stylus on a couple of goldring bodies for convenience, I hope to have some useful information about other arms on the technics, and how much of the problem I have with its sound is arm, and how much is the rest of the deck. My brief experience of this new platter was so impressive it has caused me to change my plans for customising my old PT and persuade AK to do me a special Pink Triangle platter based on the new techie. Neither deck will have an external power supply (probably - he might get one ready by then) or an improved bearing. They will both be on standard feet, although I might have a bash at building an aerolam/sorbothane sandwich isolation platform (AK wants to do it with springs).
Don't rush to spend money just yet - It will probably be at least 2 weeks before I can report back. I am very much hoping to get my Quad 405 back for the purpose first, but not holding my breath.
That was a very long-winded way of saying I think an arm upgrade is likely to be a good idea, but there is no particular reason that the Jelco is the only option in town. I appreciate, as Dave has pointed out, that there can be situations where some arms are less comfortable in some turntables, and armboard material can help with matching, but I think there is a fair chance these new funk arms will work with the 1200. I am struck by how well the F5 works on a solid deck (LSD) I have heard, and how much the characteristics of the arm are evident on both the LSD and my PT. If I say it sounds the same on both - I don't mean it is coloured and has its own sound it adds, I mean it is distinctive. Not disimilar to my previous 774 but with more detail and space, and MUCH more bass.
Arthur is supposed to be bringing his new Technics platter round to mine, to compare it with the Funk platter on a well maxed out deck. I await with great expectations...
Oldpinkman
26-06-2013, 15:34
Arthur is supposed to be bringing his new Technics platter round to mine, to compare it with the Funk platter on a well maxed out deck. I await with great expectations...
He mentioned. I'd be interested to hear what you think. Your deck is max'd I see. As I rambled I'd be interested in whether the Isonoe feet are the last word in isolation - I'm a bouncy boy myself, but the rest looks pretty hot. Never heard of a Shelter cartridge - presumably its horribly expensive.
My Isonoe feet rest inside Techniboots and the combination gives extraordinary isolation.
Shelter are a company founded on the ashes of Fidelity Research. The 5000 is a superb real-world MC cartridge - about $1800 from 2juki in Hong Kong.
EDIT: it now looks to be around $1300, an absolute steal for such performance.
Oldpinkman
26-06-2013, 16:20
Thanks martin. Interesting. This technics world is all new to me. But I think good isolation is a big factor, and it sounds like you do too. The cartridge is interesting. If horribly expensive is perhaps too flippant its certainly more than a weeks pocket money for me. How did you choose it? I'm in no hurry, because there are other things I want to sort out, and the goldring is not bad, but at some stage I expect to treat myself to a cartridge. There are so many exotics on here I don't know where to start.
How did you choose it?
I had a Dynavector DV-20X2L which did the dark and deeply extended bass thing very well and then took a punt on an inexpensive used Shelter 501 Mk.II which had a wonderfully liquid midrange and great soundstage. Talking to 2juki got me interested in the 5000, which he claimed would do both of those things plus a whole lot more. I didn't want warm or euphonic, just truthful. His advice was spot on, I took the plunge blind and I love it. Sometimes you just have to, especially with cartridges.
I hesitate to recommend an LM317 as it's not the best for current demand or noise performance.
Would you please back up your statement with engineering data or measurements? I'm curious. Thank you.
Other than that, do you know if your Shelter is similar in compliance and response to a 501 II? I've been fascinated by the Shelters for some time...
Cheers!
Would you please back up your statement with engineering data or measurements?
Only in a roundabout way, as I don't have the time to dig it all out and you can Google just as well as anyone. Here are the Dexa measurements (scroll down) versus typical 7805 performance:
http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=70
Now we know that an LM317 performs better than a 7805, but certainly not as well as a Dexa. More importantly - much more importantly - is what my ears told me when I swapped the 7805 and 7812 regs in a Beresford Caiman DAC for a pair of Dexas of the same voltage: much better sound quality with lower noise floor and greater fine detail. They're cheap enough to try for yourself. Don't get too bogged down in measurements when it comes to audio (says an electronics engineer).
There is no doubt that a 78XX can be improved upon... And I agree that the 317 is better. Thanks for the link to the Dexa, I've never heard of it, and after reading just a bit, it's extremely interesting. :)
I had a Dynavector DV-20X2L which did the dark and deeply extended bass thing very well and then took a punt on an inexpensive used Shelter 501 Mk.II which had a wonderfully liquid midrange and great soundstage. Talking to 2juki got me interested in the 5000, which he claimed would do both of those things plus a whole lot more. I didn't want warm or euphonic, just truthful. His advice was spot on, I took the plunge blind and I love it. Sometimes you just have to, especially with cartridges.
I'd certainly second that.
I've run a Shelter 5000 for 4 years now and I've yet to hear a cart I prefer. I listened to a few AN IOs to see what all the fuss was about and was left very unimpressed; ditto several other "fashionable" MCs but nothing to date has come close to recreating the dynamics, neutrality and detail of the Shelter 5000 in my system. I have it paired with an SME309 Magnesium mounted on Gyro SE, and use one of my own SUTs into an EAR 834. Its a fabulous combination.
Oldpinkman
27-06-2013, 05:32
Thanks martin & paul. This has definitely started an itch. Reading the spec of the 501-2 it reminds me of a special friend I lost a few years ago in several respects (especially the fragile cantilever which vanished) . I may have to shake the piggy bank for this one. I don't suppose anyone has 1khz and 10 khz square wave plots for a 501-2 to seal the deal?
I've never seen a technical review of one, Martin. As for manufacturer's specs, the 'manual' is a laugh!
Other than that, do you know if your Shelter is similar in compliance and response to a 501 II?
Sorry Jim, I missed this first time around.
The 501 Mk.II has 0.5mV output, a 0.3 x 0.7mm elliptical nude stylus and a compliance of 9cu. Tracks at 1.4 - 2.0g.
The 5000 has 0.5mV output, a 0.3 x 0.7mm elliptical nude stylus and a compliance of 9cu. Tracks at 1.4 - 2.0g (I track mine at 1.85g).
Frequency response is meaningless so I've not bothered with them. All these specs look the same - you need to listen to cartridges!
Mmm... That's interesting, Martin. Normally, as one goes up the range, from any manufacturer, cartridges are fitted with 'posher' tips. Therefore, I'm surprised that the 5000, given its cost, doesn't at least have a line-contact stylus, or preferably an FG!
Given those specs, I'm struggling to see why the 5000 would sound any different, let alone, better. I'm sure it does, though! Also, IME, the frequency response of cartridges is far from meaningless. Are you sure there aren't some pertinent details you've omitted to mention, in terms of the 5000's internal construction, or whatever, in order to justify its price tag and hierarchical superiority over the 501 MKII? :)
Marco.
Well yes, lots is missed out. That's why I said that cartridge specs tell you almost nothing about the sound of a cartridge. Look at the frequency response of an AT OC9 or 33 and it will tell you next to nothing about the balance that we hear (somewhat toppy for an OC9, more balanced for a 33). The 5000 sounds significantly better than the 501 Mk.II, but you wouldn't know it from the spec list. The same could be said for Koetsu, for instance.
Also, remember that above the 5000 is the 7000, 9000 and Harmony.
Look at the frequency response of an AT OC9 or 33 and it will tell you next to nothing about the balance that we hear (somewhat toppy for an OC9, more balanced for a 33). The 5000 sounds significantly better than the 501 Mk.II, but you wouldn't know it from the spec list. The same could be said for Koetsu, for instance.
Also, remember that above the 5000 is the 7000, 9000 and Harmony.
With the OC9 and 33PTG, in terms of their respective frequency responses, I'd expect to see a peak, featured in any graph produced, at the frequency where one can hear the obvious treble lift of the OC9. Therefore, in that respect, the effect of variations in frequency response between cartridges is quite significant.
Also, if the measured frequency response of a cartridge shows greater top-end extension than that of another from the same manufacturer, you can bet your boots that this will translate, audibly, as it being more detailed, and tonally, it will have added 'sparkle'. I agree, in terms of Koetsus, but I believe that the biggest differences between those are the resonant effects of the different exotic hardwoods, used on the body-shells, and how they influence sound quality.
Are you aware if the body-shell of the 5000 is notably different in construction from that of the 501 MKII?
Yup, I'm aware of the existence of the 7000, 9000 and Harmony. However, what are their respective price tags? I'd be curious to know... In terms of SPPV, I get a 'race-tuned' FG tip (Replicant stylus) on my SPU Royal for £1500! ;)
Marco.
Are you aware if the body-shell of the 5000 is notably different in construction from that of the 501 MKII?
Yes, they are substantially different with the 5000 having a one-piece anodized aluminium body and boron cantilever. This I believe is what gives the 5000 such incredible dynamics while keeping it tonally neutral. It also needs a heavyweight arm and they don't come much heavier than the Dynavector.
When the tip has worn out I intend getting it re-tipped with something exotic.
Ah, now we're getting to the nitty-gritty...! So the 5000 has both a superior quality body-shell and cantilever, compared with that of the 501MKII? In that case, no wonder it sounds better - and neither of those effects will be measurable on the type of apparatus used to analyse their technical performance :)
Martin, when you get your 5000 re-tipped, go for an FG(S) - you won't believe how much more high-frequency detail it pulls off of discs!! :eek: :trust:
Marco.
Frequency response is meaningless so I've not bothered with them. All these specs look the same - you need to listen to cartridges!
I was curious about compliance more than anything. I'm coming from a Planar25 which gives you essentially no choice in setup and tweaking, to a Techie, which is about as blank a canvas as you can have these days... I just don't want to have a horrible mismatch with the physical properties of cartridge/arm.
Listening to cartridges is certainly the way to understand and decide. At least on this side of the pond you need to buy it first and they are essentially nonrefundable/returnable. So everything needs to be taken on hearsay and faith. (Which is quite annoying in the grand scheme of things.) Lol
Also, if you are interested, I've contacted Dexa and they are happy to make a 21V positive regulator module. I will give it a try. :)
MikeMusic
27-06-2013, 13:12
Listening to cartridges is certainly the way to understand and decide. At least on this side of the pond you need to buy it first and they are essentially nonrefundable/returnable. So everything needs to be taken on hearsay and faith. (Which is quite annoying in the grand scheme of things.) Lol
Surely a decent dealer will allow you to hear cartidges even in your funny little country !
:D
Oldpinkman
27-06-2013, 13:18
I was curious about compliance more than anything. I'm coming from a Planar25 which gives you essentially no choice in setup and tweaking, to a Techie, which is about as blank a canvas as you can have these days... I just don't want to have a horrible mismatch with the physical properties of cartridge/arm.
Listening to cartridges is certainly the way to understand and decide. At least on this side of the pond you need to buy it first and they are essentially nonrefundable/returnable. So everything needs to be taken on hearsay and faith. (Which is quite annoying in the grand scheme of things.) Lol
Also, if you are interested, I've contacted Dexa and they are happy to make a 21V positive regulator module. I will give it a try. :)
I don't think you have an obvious mismatch regarding compliance, but there may be other energy issues where "you'll have to listen" is the only answer. I believe the technics arm with standard headshell (most people recommend change - I have no experience) has a 12g effective mass. The cartridge is about 8g. That puts the system resonance with a 9cu cartridge at about 12.5Hz - bang in the theoretical ideal zone. (assuming that data is reliable). The 5000 with its heavier body will work too. The F5 also has a "normal" effective mass of 12g and should be similarly suited. Even the lighter Funk arms (when they are launched) will still be below 15Hz with this cartridge and very unlikely on pure maths to cause problems. The Jelco I believe (again no direct experience) has an effective mass of 20g which would put the resonance close to 10Hz - which is lower than ideal, but I suspect not disastrous. The more I read about these cartridges, the more I am getting the hots for them - probably the 5000. A bit of consistent comparable data on them, and a couple of square wave plots wouldn't go amiss - but I get the feeling I'm going to weaken after my holidays and take the plunge.
I've contacted Dexa and they are happy to make a 21V positive regulator module. I will give it a try. :)
Nice one. I'll be very interested in whether a single chip solution works well. Many of us have taken the Paul Hynes mega expensive PSU route, but it would be great to be able to recommend an inexpensive solution for DIYers.
I get the feeling I'm going to weaken after my holidays and take the plunge.
If you do, Richard, make contact with 2juki and see what he can do for you in US$. Don't forget to add duty and VAT (HM Customs won't) and see whether that compares well with a fully landed price - if you can even find one in the UK. I bought mine from him and his service is exemplary and he fully deserves his reputation. PM me if you want his e-mail address.
Nice one. I'll be very interested in whether a single chip solution works well. Many of us have taken the Paul Hynes mega expensive PSU route, but it would be great to be able to recommend an inexpensive solution for DIYers.
The biggest thing I can surmise from the PSU (so far) is that I can hear the transformer in the speakers with the platter stopped and the needle down. (and everything turned up, of course...) So there is no doubt that merely removing the transformer will make a significant difference. Changing the regulator is just icing on the cake.
My real question at this time is should I insert a shed-load of passive filtering on the DC before the regulator? I.E., move the diode bridge off the PCB and into the external PSU, and add a few poles of RC filtering with large caps, then insert that DC into the PCB.
I'm thinking 4700uF, 10R, 4700uF, 10R, 4700uF, then into the PCB where the bridge output would go. (Those values chosen as I have them on-hand.)
Yes, move the trafo, diode bridge, reservoir and regulator externally then all the Technics will see is clean incoming 21V DC. Then you can couple that DC straight into the small-ish reservoir cap on the PCB. I don't have the circuit to hand but could give you the component reference if you need.
Yes, move the trafo, diode bridge, reservoir and regulator externally then all the Technics will see is clean incoming 21V DC. Then you can couple that DC straight into the small-ish reservoir cap on the PCB.
That won't work, as the UWB regulator is not happy seeing any more than 47uF downstream of it. The 470-1000uF on the board might annoy it.
I will start with the transformer outboard and the new regulator in place of the old discrete, and sometime in the future relocate the bridge and add the big filter to the outboard box. I don't necessarily want to do it all at once, you learn less that way. :)
KAB speaks about the strobe adding a fair bit of noise to the DC, so it seems logical to use the current Technics mains switch to disable/enable the strobe. After all, that switch is in a logical location.
Yes, that would work fine.
It's easy enough to remove the board-mounted reservoir cap to keep the Dexa happy.
My strobe is disabled through the on/off switch and, anyway, the Funk platter doesn't have any strobe markings!
More steps along the journey - I ordered a Cardas rewire kit, a second headshell, and a few other odds and ends. He is currently out of Isnonoes, but expects a shipment in a few weeks.
I've sent a message to Dexa, trying to determine how to order one of their regulators at 21V...
But tomorrow I'm off for a visit to Pass Labs. :D :D :D
But tomorrow I'm off for a visit to Pass Labs. :D :D :D
Give Nelson my regards ;)
MikeMusic
28-06-2013, 07:23
But tomorrow I'm off for a visit to Pass Labs. :D :D :D
Ooh lucky you !
Bit far for me .....
I feel fortunate in the fact that I had the chance to visit Pass Labs yesterday. It's in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountains, in the area of the California 'Gold Rush' of the late 19th century. A beautiful area.
The building itself is small and unassuming, although a modern construction, it's architecture is very appropriate to the surroundings.
The only thing big about the operation is the products - there is a central open office where the principals collaborate and work, a stockroom with shelves full of wonderful stuff. (and many boxes of unobtanium...) There are racks that have the chassis and enclosure pieces stored before assembly, and if you like the industrial hi-fi look of the Pass Labs gear, walking by those racks is a bit of sensory overload. :)
The largest part of the building is the production area where a half-dozen or so craftspeople build up everything by hand. A roller cart will be used for each product that needs to be assembled, with various boards, bits, and sub assemblies collected on one level as necessary and the chassis on the top, and this can be easily moved about to the various people working on it.
The production test-bench is very well equipped... (As one would expect) I am a DIYer, and I hope someday for my bench to look about 1/2 as good as theirs. Near there is an area that is partitioned off with transparent vinyl, the type of 'door' that you would see at a supermarket inbetween the freezer stockroom and the rest of the store. You can see through it, but it holds the heat away. This room is the burn-in rack for the products. They sit at least 3 days powered up. This room has (many) mains plugs for all market's voltages, 100V, 120V, 240V, etc... During the summer the partition is kept closed and there is a ventilation fan removing the copious amounts of heat that 10 or so monster-sized Class-A amplifiers can produce. Of course, in the winter months, that partition is opened, and there is no need for the building to have central heating.
I will continue this later, I am going to a Museum ship (USS Hornet, an Aircraft Carrier) in Alameda, (near San Francisco) with Wayne today.
Surely a decent dealer will allow you to hear cartidges even in your funny little country !
:D
Hear, yes, of course. The actual problem is nobody has the interesting cartridges (I.E., more than $200) in stock.
MikeMusic
29-06-2013, 16:57
I feel fortunate in the fact that I had the chance to visit Pass Labs yesterday.
Nice
MikeMusic
29-06-2013, 16:58
Hear, yes, of course. The actual problem is nobody has the interesting cartridges (I.E., more than $200) in stock.
How can they possibly sell the more expensive ones ?!
:scratch:
Surely there is a sensible dealer with a few good ones to hear ?
I will start with the transformer outboard and the new regulator in place of the old discrete, and sometime in the future relocate the bridge and add the big filter to the outboard box. I don't necessarily want to do it all at once, you learn less that way.
Hmmm... He's quoting himself...
The topic of TT PSU came up today with Wayne, (Colburn, the guy who designs everything but the poweramps at Pass) as he has made a DC powersupply for the SP10, and I was curious as to what lessons he would be willing to share about the mods I want to do the the SL-1200. Getting the bridge away from the circuitry is paramount. He wholeheartedly liked my idea of the transformer, bridge, and big RC filter with multiple stages (CRCRC) all in the external box. So instead of waiting I will do that all at the same time.
Great, Jim. I think Paul Hynes and Wayne Colburn could have one hell of a conversation about power supplies. Wayne designed my XP-20 preamp, so kudos to him for the best preamp I've ever had in my system.
The best thing about the information gleaned about the PSU is I realized that it can be done in stages - getting DC to the turntable is easy, remove the transformer and it's associated bits, remove the diode bridge and connect an umbilical. Make a box for the transformer, new bridge and CRCRC filter. Get that tested and working.
Then the new regulator can be done on it's own at a later time. (I.E., once I determine what exactly to use. The Dexa are very interesting, but shipping to the US is almost the cost of the device...)
A small added benefit to this project is the existing power switch on the Technics will be used to switch the strobe. That is reported to be of some benefit.
I have jumped into the PSU modifications with great abandon, my TT is currently a collection of parts strewn about my workbench. Photos to follow.
An interesting hobby, this. :) :) :)
The Dexa are very interesting, but shipping to the US is almost the cost of the device
Parts Connexion of Canada sell them, if that helps.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/regulator_dexa.html
I need a 21V (custom), and will probably look through thier range and see if there is anything interesting I could get to qualify for free shipping.
I'm mainly grumbling about the post prices. (And I have all the bits for a 317 on hand)
Chances are I will do both. :)
EDIT - Here is the link to my DC PSU. I'm quite pleased.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?26620-SL-1200-DC-Power-Supply-DIY&p=459947
So the next thing in the modification queue will be a LM317 based regulator. (I've got all the bits, so might as well...)
Then a Cardas rewire of the stock Technics arm.
Both will have guides made to help those curious and brave enough to try. :)
Jim, it's going to be interesting hearing what you think of the LM317 compared with the stock regulator (which is known to be marginal). I started with a Timestep 21V PSU so I never ran my 1210 in stock mode.
I'm curious also. And if the Dexa is an improvement as well.
A different thought...
I keep looking at this photo;
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa276/aeroplane_album/IMG_1837_zps120ec36f.jpg
And looking at that realize that the motor is secured through the bearing with only three holes... And the PCB support is completely non-structural... Meaning that you could swap that assembly into another chassis with fairly minimum fuss.
So why not make a completely new plinth out of Panzerholz, Baltic Birch, aluminum or Unicorn horn? (Actually the unicorn horn is supposed to be really good for tonearms, but I digress...) Similar to the Monarch turntable.
Seriously, the engineering and construction wouldn't be very difficult, epically if you omit the strobe, cue light, and stock arm. The transformer and PSU would be outboard. (obviously) A blank armboard with provisions for mounting longer or shorter arms would be easy, and all the expensive beautiful juicy SL- upgrades (Bearing, platter, etc...) would still be able to be fit as stock.
You could make the plinth as thick or as thin (within limits) as you like. Low-mass like a Rega, or high mass like a soviet locomotive, and the suspension could also be whatever you like - Isonoes, racquetballs, pillars with o-rings like an SME...
The original Start/Stop & speed buttons should be reused to show it's genealogy.
Jim - Mike New has a very elegant solution which goes together with his bearing, called the Base Plate. This provides an incredibly strong reinforcement to the cast chassis into which the bearing is mounted. Don't be too quick to dispose of the Technics sandwich chassis, it's responsible for quite a lot of the damped and resonance free sound quality. Having taken it completely apart to mount my MN Bearing and Base Plate, I can attest to the superb design and wonder at how Panasonic could have sold them at such a low price.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?12959-The-Mike-New-Bearing-Base-Plate
Jim, it's going to be interesting hearing what you think of the LM317 compared with the stock regulator (which is known to be marginal). I started with a Timestep 21V PSU so I never ran my 1210 in stock mode.
Indeed... That's one I'll be watching very carefully! :exactly:
Look forward to reading your opinions, Jim :)
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
09-07-2013, 10:11
Rather than use a 'cooking' LM317, how about a Linear Technologies LT317 variant instead? These are said to be much better performers, at a sensible price.
Pair of LT1083/1084 in a pre-tracking config, you'll need an extra 2v or so of headroom before the regulator though...
Jim - Mike New has a very elegant solution which goes together with his bearing, called the Base Plate.
Interesting! I was not aware of that item. Thanks!
Indeed... That's one I'll be watching very carefully! Look forward to reading your opinions, Jim
Thank you, I'm interested as well.
Rather than use a 'cooking' LM317, how about a Linear Technologies LT317 variant instead? These are said to be much better performers, at a sensible price.
A fine idea! I believe I have a LT317 in my box of semis. I will use it if I do. I could also try an LT1085.
Pair of LT1083/1084 in a pre-tracking config, you'll need an extra 2v or so of headroom before the regulator though...
There is currently plenty of voltage from the raw supply (about 30V) to power a high-dropout regulator. Any of the modern IC regs or some of the fancy SMD discrete regs like the Dexa are much lower dropout.
If you were talking about pre-regulating, I haven't given it much thought...
Neal - I have done a bit of research into the Pre-tracking configuration. Thank you for bringing it up, I am very intrigued.
There is no reason not to give it a go. :)
Of those of you interested in using a LM317 in a high-performance configuration for audio, do read this -
http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/3pin_reg_notes1.html
There are a few times where the author asks you to follow some links and read... Those are quite helpful.
This document has a bunch of wonderful information as to what parts you want, and the specific whys, of getting best performance from a 317. It also has great information on the 'pre-tracking' configuration that was suggested by Neal. A great read if you are into that kind of thing.
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