Dual 721 <> Dual 1228?

[Philipss]

Hi All,
I am new to this forum and I am very new to Analogue Sound. I am in the hunt of finding a good TT which fits my budget. At present I have offer for Dual 721 and Dual 1228.

Dual 721 is in OK condition with weak stylus.

Dual 1228 is in much better condition but I didnt see. I heard from my Friend.

Both are in working condition. Dual 721 is cheaper and 1228 is little higher. I am very new to TT. I dont know much about TT. I searched and found both had very good user satisfaction. Please advice which I can go for.

Thanks
Badri

[DSJR]

The 721 is direct driven isn't it and the 1228 idler? if I'm right (I can't check at the mo), I'd recommend the 721 with a 1.5g tracking cartridge such as an Ortofon OM, VM 500 series and probably the 2M red or Blue as well, together with the AT120E and 440MLa since running torque isn't the highest (you don't get pitch instability though with these...). The idler Duals are extremely quiet and the arms on all are good enough for almost anything tracking between 1 and 2 grammes. Despite moderately high mass, the arms are utterly stable with high compliance pickups and I've used all sorts in my similar Dual 701, from ADC XLM and 26 (sibilant tracing not ideal), to the later ADC XLM III/ZLM and Phase IV (wonderful :)) to an Ortofon MC30 Super (works incredibly well with well balanced sound here) and a Koetsu Black, which was awesome in the 701. Cartridges inclined to microphony (Goldring Eroika, classic B&O SP12 etc etc) should NOT be used as the arm is too lively with the wrong cartridge fitted.

The 1228 may be more serviceable as parts are shared with many models, the 721 being a smaller selling model as I remember. Check on VE site for service details including the infamous 'steurpimpel' which often needs attending to :eyebrows:

[Kvaal]

I have the 1228. It is a idler drive TT. If you like rock, blues etc you will like it too, because of the bassy energic drive it plays with. You will be better off with the 721 if you like classical music. The 721 is quieter.

1228 plays wery well with the Shure M 95.

[Philipss]

Thanks. Now I am waiting for my first TT.

[Mr Kipling]

If it arrives at dinnertime, you'll have a - Dual At Noon.

I like a good western.

[Jag]

I have Dual 731Q that I bought more out of nostalgia and it does sound rather good even with the standard cartridge, only thing is that the automatic feature is not fully functioning and service will look into that.

Interestingly I also have 1228 but not had an opportunity to set it up yet but from what my memory recalls I think the idler drive system does give the sound some extra drive that is not in your face but just very impressive particularly on vocals, jazz and I look forward to setting it up.

[Rare Bird]

I don't like these Dual's in Question but the old Idlers (1019's etc) look great especially in one of those loverly 'United Audio' plinths

[mimoser]

Some years ago I had the smaller sibling 704. This worked really well with high compliance carts like Ortofon VMS20 or a Stanton 681EEE.
What I did not like was the Anti-resonator counterweight. A Dual 601 with standard counterweight sounded more precise to me. If you can get any old DUAL counterweight try switching it for a change.
Things to check:
- If the automatic functions do not work, there will be grease on the moving segment and/or the small rubber "Steuerpimpel" will have crumbled. first clean the segment, second Steuerpimpels can still be bought at dual-forum.de.
- use a glassfiber eraser on all headshell contacts, they tend to corrode. be careful with the springy pins in the headshell insert.
- have a look under the top plate where the silencing switch is located and the tonearm cable is attached. The cable was originally plugged onto the swich, which is ok, but the ground was soldered across chassis ground and the left/right ground wires for DIN connectors, which gives a little more "rocknroll", but less definition compared to separate ground wires.
- changing the original cable to something shielded (I used shielded in-car cable with an extra control wire abused as earth) will help definition and be dead cheap (EUR 6 for 3m, which give two sets of cable). Do not solder the wire onto the contacts, I’d rather use small connectors from the car supply dealer.
- try to find the original mounting help (a small perspex thingy). Without it mounting a cartridge is rather nasty as the mounting holes are not accessible when the system is clipped in.
I very much like the old highend DUALs, they are excellent all-in-one systems. To get more definition, timing or "hi-fi" I had to switch to a TT2 with RB250, which is in a completely different league regarding stiffness in between system and platter. The main difference to the DUALs is their rather "flimsy" topplate-plastic-arm connection compared to the aluminium-birchply-cast system on a TT2. This does not mean that a 721 is flimsy in itself, rather that a TT2 is something completely different - and has no automatic features …
;-)
Michael

PS: the 721 is the more modern system, the 1228 is the lesser table imho

[DSJR]

My 701 has the anti-resonator counterweight and it's fine for me, the only thing the deck needs is a NAS Spacemat on top of the stock one, which is firmly stuck to the cast platter. The stock counterweight is fine, but with frail ADC's, Empires and the Shure V15 III it was originally tuned for, the anti-resonator counterweight is definitely better to me at any rate as long as it hasn't been damaged (many 701's had the internal weight non-level as supplied for some reason).

[Jag]

Thanks Michael

I will hve a look at giving my 2 Duals a good old service once I get all the information and tools together.

Just realised that my 1228 is actually a 1229 so my mistake, luckily the service manual came with it in case a service is required. The CS 731Q is actually sounding good and hope to get it running well hopefully after a good old service.

Regards

[mimoser]

a 1229 is a completely different beast than a 1228, they were the totl hifi changers of their time …
;-)
before you stack-play some 45s be careful with the VTA-adjust mechanism at the tonearm base. Sometimes they get stuck because of hardened grease and may break if handled roughly.
Try to find some stacker optimized operas; they can be played side 1 through 3 and 4 to 6 by simply flipping around the stack of records.
have fun!
Michael

[DSJR]

Have a look at the South St Services US site, as Adam there can still supply some of the popular bits for these.

The 1229 VTA adjuster apparently can go awol as there's apparently some rubber bushing that may fail. There's another US site about servicing old Dulas and this was one thing that cropped up. One other infamous failing part (old age) is the STEURPIMPEL (:eyebrows:) which is the pad fixed to a small diameter spring loaded 'pin.' This pad is pushed and moved by the main actuating lever and offers the slight 'friction' when the arm is being positioned. I fabricated a replacement using a ball-pen refill cut to size...

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/DSCF0344_modifiedliftingpin.jpg (http://s132.photobucket.com/user/DSJR_photos/media/DSCF0344_modifiedliftingpin.jpg.html)

HiFi types often cringe at auto decks, but these Duals, as well as many of the B&O models, are EXTREMELY gentle and benign on performance and cartridge handling, the Duals especially so IMO.

[Philipss]

Hi All,
Finally I got my first TT. I preferred Dual 721 because it is cheaper. But in transit that wooden cover is broken. Can it be replaced? If yes, please let me know where to buy. And I need to change stylus and cartridge. Is Jico stylus a good choice? Any other cheap and best altenatives? Please post your suggestions.

Thanks
Badri

[mimoser]

which wooden cover?
the only thing wooden on a DUAL 721 should be the rim around the plinth. This is in fact fiberboard tacked to a plastic bottom and could be replaced easily by a local joiner. If you want to build a new plinth, you will find a template there: http://dual.pytalhost.eu/1219Einbauschablone.pdf
The drawing also explains how to unplinth any DUAL TT with crosshead screws. PDFs of all manuals can be found at: http://www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/721.shtml
Which system? Jico has good critiques, but I have no personal experience.
Perhaps you could post pics of the damage to the cover.
best
Michael

[DSJR]

I think it's Sth St Services who make a nice proper wooden plinth for these Duals with a more solid mounting board. Try some Googling as many many 1970's and 1980's models shared the same template..