SL1210 upgrade path

[howlindawg]

Well it looks like I have a SL1210 on it's way to me in the very near future.
(Replacing a Townshend Rock V + Excalibur) :mental:

I've been looking at the upgrade path so let me check to see if I have this in the right order of priority.

1] Feet and Platter Mat.
2] Armboard and Tonearm
3] PSU and Bearing
4] Platter

Is that more or less it, in order of priority?

[RobbieGong]

Well it looks like I have a SL1210 on it's way to me in the very near future.
(Replacing a Townshend Rock V + Excalibur) :mental:

I've been looking at the upgrade path so let me check to see if I have this in the right order of priority.

1] Feet and Platter Mat.
2] Armboard and Tonearm
3] PSU and Bearing
4] Platter

Is that more or less it, in order of priority?

Hi, I'd say feet and psu, followed by Mike New bearing, upgrade tonearm, upgrade platter.
I tried many different mats and always prefered the stock softer Techie 3mm mat over all of them, not the hard and horrible thicker (5mm I think) Techie mat. Some swear by the Achromat, some dont, it's a case of suck it and see, keep or sell on - Either way, enjoy your journey, enjoy the music ! :)

[MikeMusic]

Hi, I'd say feet and psu, followed by Mike New bearing, upgrade tonearm, upgrade platter.
I tried many different mats and always prefered the stock softer Techie 3mm mat over all of them, not the hard and horrible thicker (5mm I think) Techie mat. Some swear by the Achromat, some dont, it's a case of suck it and see, keep or sell on - Either way, enjoy your journey, enjoy the music ! :)
The Achromat was a huge surprise to me. A big jump in quality and sillly VFM

[howlindawg]

Interesting.

To me it's a no brainer to sort the feet and an achromat (or whatever) first of all as they're cheap and non invasive mods.

I am surprised that the PSU would be a higher priority than an arm swap though.
Would others concur?

[Tarzan]

Tell you what l did..... cheapest first then if you like continue worked for me:)

[Oldpinkman]

I bet there's a long article on this somewhere already, but since this thread exists, what are the "why's and wherefores" of the various mods - particularly removing the power supply from the chassis. My entry to pink triangle was because of hum when switching from the revolting linn basik cartridge to an ortofon VMS20E. The culprit - a transformer under the cartridge path. The solution - remove it from the chassis (to this day I am using a Lasky's multi-voltage power supply) Just wait till I get pimping...
But the techie i borrowed had no detectable hum at all at all at all

The feet are pretty obvious, and I would have thought a no-brainer. And I understand the achromat :)

My gut feel for the dull sound I heard was the arm - mostly. My techie loaner had an achromat on. It was on a pretty solid shelf on brick walls (we have an alcove just made for a turntable shelf!). I will see if AK has one of his platters, and I'm sure the boy wouldn't peddle them if they didn't do something, but my money is on the arm, which sounded like every other similar arm I have seen and used (PL12d, micro-seiki et al)

What's the issue with the bearing ? (I don't have one in front of me to look for myself atm)

And if there is an x-ref to an earlier thread or knowledge, apologies for not finding it, but point me there please :mental:

[Audio Al]

I have experienced a " HUM " when using a AT120e cartridge on a 1200 sl mk11 , Changed the cart = NO HUM , so they can and do have an affect

Also when upgrading to a external power supply the power supply is smother with no dips on start up , so a cleaner , smother power supply = better sounds ;) with no feedback from the cartridge :)

[MikeMusic]

Tell you what l did..... cheapest first then if you like continue worked for me:)
Could work ok. Don't get discouraged if there is no improvement with 1 item as it may rely on others to give it a leg up.
I started with a semi modded Technics, bought bits and saved them for a session adding them in one at a time, comparing as I went.
Improvement every time, obviously good to encourage me, but I bore in mind what Martin T said about the Mike New bearing being the base to work from.
The Mike New bearing on its own was an improvement, so was the Funk platter, but the improvement with the Achromat sounded a bigger improvement than the other 2 together.
However what was the Achromat gaining from the other improvements ? ...............
Then came the Ortofon, yes improvement,
Ultimate mains cable, nice improvement
then the stunning P10
The system now sounds superb
Already had an outboard PSU for the deck

[twotone]

I thought the Techy I bought from AL sounded fantastic in stock form and I only changed the PSU because I had bought one before buying the TT (the PSU had come up for sale and I grabbed it).

My impression of the stock Technics with an A&R P77 cart, as supplied by Al, sounded great and I would have been more than happy with it like that moreso because the Technics deck was mint and I didn't want to alter it in anyway however the PSU certainly made a difference, not huge but a difference nonetheless and a worthwhile upgrade at £150 but I doubt that spending £400 odds on a different PSU would have been an option to me or would have made a £400 difference to the sound from the deck, maybe it does but I am not going to find out:cool:

Likewise with the Achromat, thought that was a load of pish to be honest but the difference is more than worth the £75 cost of the mat, plus the second hand value of the stock rubber mat is about £15 and the Achromat came with a bottle of AT stylus cleaner and free post so a great value for money upgrade IMO even better than the PSU I think and, I also have a Technics stock felt mat that I'll sell on too I think or maybe send that to Al if it's worthless:lol:

I also changed the cart to an SAE 1000LT HOMC and that made a huge difference over the A&R cart but that's really a personal thing and really didn't have to be done.

I've not changed the headshell but I have bought another stock Technics headshell to change carts over easily so might look at doing that if a second hand headshell appears in the classified cause I ain't paying £40 for the recommeded one X 2.

The stock Technics arm and headshell are brilliant, might not be the best sounding arm (I have no idea) but being able to change carts and the VTA so easily is a dream so I doubt that I would change the arm unless a new arm was defintely going to take the SAE cart to a new league altogether but again, your talking about £300 to £400 for an arm and it starts to get to the ridiculous stage trying to improve the sound that it's just not worth the bother IMO.

Suppose I should change the feet on the deck but after that it will likely be a phono stage with the deck mods completed.

Tony

[twotone]

Then came the Ortofon, yes improvement,
Ultimate mains cable, nice improvement
then the stunning P10
The system now sounds superb
Already had an outboard PSU for the deck

What's the 'P10' MIke?

[Oldpinkman]

OK - so the external power supply is a different better one - not just rip the internal one out and put it in a tin.

Achromat doesnt really surprise at all (its that physics stuff) but my credentials there are now well known I believe.

Tony - I would be astonished if a different arm didn't make a huge difference to the sound. But I haven't tried it yet. I will see if in the pursuit of science I can get me a techie with an F5 on it. Probably going to have to buy a techie first...;)

Yeah - what is a P10. I am not enjoying my 10P :(

[twotone]

OK - so the external power supply is a different better one - not just rip the internal one out and put it in a tin.

Achromat doesnt really surprise at all (its that physics stuff) but my credentials there are now well known I believe.

Tony - I would be astonished if a different arm didn't make a huge difference to the sound. But I haven't tried it yet. I will see if in the pursuit of science I can get me a techie with an F5 on it. Probably going to have to buy a techie first...;)

Yeah - what is a P10. I am not enjoying my 10P :(

Hi Richard, do you think that an arm or phono stage would make the biggest difference?

I'm currently using an A&R A60 amp with onboard MM phono which seems to be very good to my ears.

BTW, Al is selling a Techy in the classifieds:cool:

I'm guessing a 'P10' is a SUT

[howlindawg]

I'm guessing a 'P10' is a SUT

I'm pretty sure it's the PureSound phono stage. :)

[MikeMusic]

What's the 'P10' MIke?
You don't want to know
:)

A wonderfully effective mains regenerator.
The base all the system works from and sounds superb

I also forgot in my list the superb Yannis Tome cable, Ortofon SUT that were already in the chain and later the Whest Phono Pre amp

[Oldpinkman]

OK - rather than look an even bigger tit than I normally do, a bit of googling reveals SUT to be "step up transformer" and a P10 to be a puresound phono stage. So - now we all know :)
Thanks for the tip about Audio Al's. i may yet, but my mate Arthur had a pile of them in the corner. Not sure whether they were customers, research kit, or possibly available to an old mate. Failing that there are a couple going on ebay currently for under £100 (I know they'll finish up more)
Arm or phono stage? Both? I will try to do a bit of research. I have a couple of Nad 3020's kicking around, which are not really as good as your A&R although still not at all bad. I will try and see if I can borrow 2 techies, stock arm and F5, put Goldrings on both (don't have a stock of P77's) and see whether arm or phono stage matter more (IMAO).
The arm revealed a lot of detail, and a lot of bass when I heard it. But it will be revealing detail by stopping masking it. If other components are also masking detail then it may be the revelation by the arm is less noticeable. In the end you have to accept that to get great sound, all the components need to be good and matched. It's nice to see we have moved on from a slavish "disc spinner, then arm, then cartridge then the rest" approach, which was always old tosh.
And Dave is poised in the wings to tell me arms need matching with tt's and its not obvious an F5 on a techie will work.
Let me see what I can get hold of to play with and report back

[twotone]

OK - rather than look an even bigger tit than I normally do, a bit of googling reveals SUT to be "step up transformer" and a P10 to be a puresound phono stage. So - now we all know :)
Thanks for the tip about Audio Al's. i may yet, but my mate Arthur had a pile of them in the corner. Not sure whether they were customers, research kit, or possibly available to an old mate. Failing that there are a couple going on ebay currently for under £100 (I know they'll finish up more)
Arm or phono stage? Both? I will try to do a bit of research. I have a couple of Nad 3020's kicking around, which are not really as good as your A&R although still not at all bad. I will try and see if I can borrow 2 techies, stock arm and F5, put Goldrings on both (don't have a stock of P77's) and see whether arm or phono stage matter more (IMAO).
The arm revealed a lot of detail, and a lot of bass when I heard it. But it will be revealing detail by stopping masking it. If other components are also masking detail then it may be the revelation by the arm is less noticeable. In the end you have to accept that to get great sound, all the components need to be good and matched. It's nice to see we have moved on from a slavish "disc spinner, then arm, then cartridge then the rest" approach, which was always old tosh.
And Dave is poised in the wings to tell me arms need matching with tt's and its not obvious an F5 on a techie will work.
Let me see what I can get hold of to play with and report back

Thanks Richard, much appreciated.

Tony

[twotone]

You don't want to know
:)

A wonderfully effective mains regenerator.
The base all the system works from and sounds superb

I also forgot in my list the superb Yannis Tome cable, Ortofon SUT that were already in the chain and later the Whest Phono Pre amp

Sounds expensive Mike:eyebrows:

[MikeMusic]

Sounds expensive Mike:eyebrows:
Ho yus, great VFM though
The sort of difference that makes you stop and become speechless (even me)

[Oldpinkman]

Tony

Arthur is going to put an F5 on a 1200 for me for next week (hopefully) and lend me a standard 1200 too - with achromats. He is also going to lend me one of his new design technics platters - hopefully production version. The prototype has forced me to make a concession I never thought to make in my own turntable upgrade plans - but I think that calls for a separate thread.

I would like to think that even though I have a well published association with Arthur as a friend, and therefore Funk as a Firm, I can give you an independant assessment of the arm on the deck, and whether it needs a decent phono stage to appreciate it. As a chartered accountant I remember an auditing paper about auditor independence - with the quote "independence is an attitude of mind"

But if you know another forum member near Maidstone in Kent you would like to send along as a properly independent assessor, i might be able to arrange something. Sadly, not with the Quad 405 in the system - not due back for at least 3 weeks.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Just a quick response seen as I have 5 minutes. The P10 is a mains re-generator, it will cost you approx £4400. A SUT is indeed something which uprates the tiny signal output of a MC cartridge and amplifies it so you basically get more detail. A common one to use with the 1210 is the Ortofon ST80se these cost £1000. I have both components in my system and can honestly say that I cant live without them.

[twotone]

Tony

Arthur is going to put an F5 on a 1200 for me for next week (hopefully) and lend me a standard 1200 too - with achromats. He is also going to lend me one of his new design technics platters - hopefully production version. The prototype has forced me to make a concession I never thought to make in my own turntable upgrade plans - but I think that calls for a separate thread.

I would like to think that even though I have a well published association with Arthur as a friend, and therefore Funk as a Firm, I can give you an independant assessment of the arm on the deck, and whether it needs a decent phono stage to appreciate it. As a chartered accountant I remember an auditing paper about auditor independence - with the quote "independence is an attitude of mind"

But if you know another forum member near Maidstone in Kent you would like to send along as a properly independent assessor, i might be able to arrange something. Sadly, not with the Quad 405 in the system - not due back for at least 3 weeks.

Hi Richard, thanks for this.

I'm hoping to get a loan of a Graham Slee phono amo from Scott Nagel on the forum, he's a trade guy who has one for sale, with a view to buying it if it sounds much better than the on board phono stage so I'll let you know how I get on.

Tony

PS, I'm more than happy for you to do the tests as you see fit:cool:

PPS, forgive my ignorance but I didn't appreciate who Arthur was exactly, the penny had just dropped:doh:

[howlindawg]

Lots of intersting ideas and useful information in this part of the forum for Techie users.
After reading through some of threads I've decided on the following course to start with.

On its way to me is a M5G and the following goodies have been ordered.

A new Mk II dust cover and hinges (I think this will be essential with a toddler in the house).
Isonoe feet.
Achromat (although was sorely tempted to try the Oyaide MJ-12)
SoundSupports Rega armboard.
AudioNote Arm 1

I'll probably remove the existing PSU to an external enclosure and upgrade the caps to see how that works out before making a decision on an upgrade PSU as it seems like that would address the primary issues (vibration, interferance, power reserves) that the entry level commercial PSUs would do. If I'm missing something here I'm open to correction.

[Tarzan]

Lots of intersting ideas and useful information in this part of the forum for Techie users.
After reading through some of threads I've decided on the following course to start with.

On its way to me is a M5G and the following goodies have been ordered.

A new Mk II dust cover and hinges (I think this will be essential with a toddler in the house).
Isonoe feet.
Achromat (although was sorely tempted to try the Oyaide MJ-12)
SoundSupports Rega armboard.
AudioNote Arm 1

I'll probably remove the existing PSU to an external enclosure and upgrade the caps to see how that works out before making a decision on an upgrade PSU as it seems like that would address the primary issues (vibration, interferance, power reserves) that the entry level commercial PSUs would do. If I'm missing something here I'm open to correction.



Is that the very latest Audionote tonearm? If it is it should be very interesting indeed...........

[twotone]

Tell you what guys, that Gram amp 2 sounds really excellent.

I need to stick the TT back into the amp's phono inputs but I don't think it will sound anywhere near as good as the external phono amp.

Someone said (Jules I think) that a phono amp was an essential part of the (Technics) upgrade path, I think I agree with that comment.

[howlindawg]

Is that the very latest Audionote tonearm? If it is it should be very interesting indeed...........

Yup, it's the latest type. Should be just like this one.

http://www.bd-audio.co.uk/images/an-arm.jpg

[Tarzan]

Yup, it's the latest type. Should be just like this one.

http://www.bd-audio.co.uk/images/an-arm.jpg


:eek::popcorn:

[Marco]

That should be a very nice combo, Martin. Please keep us posted how the project works out :)

Marco.

[Oldpinkman]

Well - took a bit longer than expected (with Arthur it usually does - although this time it was my clients fault)

Funk Technics platter MK2 is a near production prototype. Whilst the differences are largely cosmetic, this is a bit scruffy, and AK has some pretty touches planned - so no photo I'm afraid yet

I was let loose in the toy shop big time. I may not have my Quad back yet, but funk me have I got a power amp???:eek::D:D:D

Anyway - the test rig displayed cos I'm told y'all like pictures1016210163

Techno-funk? 1016410165

Hopefully do some proper listening at the weekend. For the minute, when I get a break from the day job, I am indulging myself with the old PT and that Integral. Speechless. And Owen reckons he can go better. No rest now till he gets his soldering iron out.

I also have a prototype Funk FX3 to try, and will try it first on the PT, and maybe if there's time on the Technics