Frugel3 Speakers at MartinT's Place

[MartinT]

I had the pleasure of a visit from Steve (Electric Beach) last night, who brought his Frugel3 single driver speakers round for us to listen to, driven by my system. They are fascinating, with their sleek and beautifully finished cabinetry, impossibly small Mark Audio driver and horn loading. If you were to hear only what you see, you might think that they simply could not create the volume and soundstage to appeal to AV users (his primary target market). However, once we got them fired up I could hear why Steve is so excited about his new enterprise.

Firstly, these speakers image! They throw a nice wide soundstage with natural positioning and wonderful focus. Secondly, they don't honk like a horn. They are tonally very natural with very expressive midrange detail. My tests with female voice passed with flying colours. Thirdly, they don't half go loud. With some serious Chord welly commanding their attention, they produced a volume very close to my normal listening levels (loud), filling the room nicely and retaining control at all times. Fourthly: they CAN do bass. Even though we didn't position them ideally in the corners (my TQ speaker cables not being quite long enough), we played material that got those little cones performing antics that I didn't think possible, with the resulting mellifluous bass being really rather impressive. Steve recommends their use with a small subwoofer and I would agree with that to get the balance just right, especially when used in an AV context. In fact, Steve rates 2.1 audio over any other layout.

Build quality and finish are exemplary, this pair sporting a rather fetching copper finish and faux leather baffles.

So a resounding thumbs up from me. They represent outrageously good value for money in the sub £1,000 sector and, when partnered with a suitable sub, make a fantastic pair of speakers for both music and film.

Apart from the speakers, Steve brought over his hard disk music collection, which we hooked up to my Logitech Touch and Bushmaster DAC, his WAV files sounding very good indeed. We chatted all night about music and I took the usual note of new music that I rather liked, the shopping list growing accordingly! Oh, and he certainly likes his cups of tea. A most enjoyable evening.


Looking diminutive next to my Ushers...
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2828/9097076679_d768cfbc75_b.jpg

[John]

Yes they a real surprise. Hard to imagine how such small speakers performing so well. They have great image and soundstage. Must admit if I was in the market for good speakers costing under a £1000 this probably be top of my list.

[bobbasrah]

An honest and balanced review, and good luck to Steve, very nicely finished....
At least I know what I'm building on the next working tour....
No Martin, the FH3s....

[Marco]

Nice one, Martin. Glad that you guys had a good time. These little bake-offs, apart from being fun, can often be rather educational! It's amazing that the Frugel3s produced a convincingly large sound to satisfy your requirements, given how they are dwarfed by your huge Ushers! :eek:

I'm sure that Steve was also suitably impressed with your system and that much good music was enjoyed by you both - the latter which is what it's all about :cool:

Marco.

[MikeMusic]

Sound excellent for sub £1000

and not intimidated by your monsters !
:)

They can't be that small either.
Is the leaning back becoming more the 'thing to do' now with speakers ?

[dantheman91]

Bigger not always better chaps i have had some small relieving speakers that sound neutrally excellent compromise my big"ish" Im currently playing with the mini tannoys CPA5'S people dont rate them much well there loss i have been getting some fairly good results from them with my parasound and nad..to be honest i LOVE little speakers just to see how they perform and to me they produce music that i like what im hearing..i had a friend round the other day he did not get on with them the same as i dont get on with the B&W DM 600 he's got..everyone has there own taste..Small speakers are very musical in terms of female vocal..the tannoys sure do have a little leverage to get them to perform good. I quite like the tannoys with a bit of separation between them and fair bit of toe in for bass performance

If we all were the same what would are systems be like..its always a nice challenge to find new kit that works well for the listener and the room.

:lol:Them ushers are giving me a semi though :eyebrows:

[MartinT]

It's amazing that the Frugel3s produced a convincingly large sound to satisfy your requirements

If jaws ever really dropped at something surprising, mine would have. To say they sounded bigger than they appear doesn't cover it.

[MartinT]

Is the leaning back becoming more the 'thing to do' now with speakers ?

For time aligning drivers, sloping baffles make sense where the driver magnets are all roughly the same distance from your ears.

For a single driver speaker, that makes no sense but it's possible that the designer decided that listening slightly off-axis, by pointing upwards, sounds better.

[MartinT]

:lol:Them ushers are giving me a semi though :eyebrows:

:rfl:

[Ali Tait]

If you haven't got statics, full range drivers are where it's at for imaging!

A great driver and a great speaker. Another design I was impressed by at Owston was a pair of bookshelf speakers using the paper coned Mark Audio Alpair 12, built by Colin Topps. Brilliant little speakers that had no trouble filling the very large room there. Link to the thread here-

http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4912&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=210

The second photo shows the back of them.

[MartinT]

I had not come across Mark Audio before and always thought Fostex to be the top manufacturer of full range drivers (assuming Lowther are no longer in production?).

[keiths]

Excellent - sounds like you had a great evening.

Still really enjoying my Frugel3s - it's just a year now since I finished building them (tempus fugit), but Steve's look so much better than my effort I could weep :(

I'm currently trying Frugel super-tweeters with mine - will hopefully get some serious listening done over the weekend as I've only managed a quick listen so far since building the super-tweeters last weekend and so far am not sure if I like what they bring to the party (whatever that is).

[Ali Tait]

I had not come across Mark Audio before and always thought Fostex to be the top manufacturer of full range drivers (assuming Lowther are no longer in production?).


What?? Nah. Fostex make some great VFM drivers, but there is far better out there. Lowther are very much alive and kicking. There are also some manufacturers that make Lowther look cheap. Try Feastrex for a start-

http://www.lotusgroupusa.com/RetailOnLine_09.pdf

[Ali Tait]

Note those prices are EACH, not for a pair!

[Ali Tait]

Lowther website-

http://www.lowtherloudspeakers.com/

[MartinT]

Ok, boggle :eek:

[loosend]

Hi Guys

When I reviewed the Frugel3's I never felt they neede a super tweeter, the MA driver is very well extended, as I'm sure Martin will agree too.

They are very nicely finished indeed and I know Steve has sourced some nicer more luxurious leathers now that will give them an added bit of pizazz :)

I do wish him all the best with his venture, he's a fantastic guy and I really enjoyed our time together.

ATB
Dan

[Stratmangler]

When I reviewed the Frugel3's I never felt they neede a super tweeter, the MA driver is very well extended, as I'm sure Martin will agree too

Which MA driver are you referring to?
My FH3s use the CHP-70, and benefit from a helping hand in the high registers, which in turn helps with bottom end definition and attack.
If you're referring to the drive units in the photo at the start of the thread then they're Alpair7 drivers (AFAIK), and I agree with your comment.

[loosend]

Yeah Chris, it was the Alpair7.

I was very pleasantly surprised tbh :)

[Stratmangler]

Scott came up with a really good design with that speaker cabinet.
It works really well with the MA drivers.

[electric beach]

Thanks for being so accommodating Martin, both a pleasurable and interesting evening.

My bad for not thinking to bring cables. Despite not having ideal positioning (directing a rear firing horn mouth into a bass trap :lol:), you did hear the signature presentation of the speakers, albeit without the presence and tonal body that's usual. By design, loading the room with a balance of the direct and rear/ reflected sound is an integral part of how they dance as they do.

I'm still lusting after your CD player!

For those who haven't seen the review here's the link
http://hifipig.com/electricbeach-frugel3-loudspeaker/

[loosend]

Scott came up with a really good design with that speaker cabinet.
It works really well with the MA drivers.
It sure does, he is a clever boy, just needed that little extra touch to make it what it is now :)

[electric beach]

Steve's look so much better than my effort I could weep :(


Thanks for the compliment again Keith. A good part of my offer is the custom variations of this cosmetic styling. Here's an illustration, using faux leather and treatment of the actual Birch ply.

As you said before, this "triumph of design" deserves a wider audience outside the DIY community, which is what I'm trying to achieve.



http://imageshack.us/a/img19/4017/cbmy.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img801/6518/7zg7.jpg

[MikeMusic]

For time aligning drivers, sloping baffles make sense where the driver magnets are all roughly the same distance from your ears.

For a single driver speaker, that makes no sense but it's possible that the designer decided that listening slightly off-axis, by pointing upwards, sounds better.
Wonder if there is any correlation between that and the upward firing Isobariks ? .......

To come anywhere near the Ushers at that price is bonkers

[MikeMusic]

Thanks for the compliment again Keith. A good part of my offer is the custom variations of this cosmetic styling. Here's an illustration, using faux leather and treatment of the actual Birch ply.

As you said before, this "triumph of design" deserves a wider audience outside the DIY community, which is what I'm trying to achieve.


I'm no stylist but I reckon there is a huge amount of 'other half acceptability' in that design - not just a pretty face, as we've heard

[electric beach]

I'm no stylist but I reckon there is a huge amount of 'other half acceptability' in that design - not just a pretty face, as we've heard

Absolutely Mike. From my website:

Domestic Bliss - or how to please your wife and get what you want! ;)

Speakers that can go back against the wall, be colour co-ordinated, have curvy feminine lines, a narrow profile and an unobtrusive driver. Have I forgotten anything?

[MikeMusic]

Absolutely Mike. From my website:

Domestic Bliss - or how to please your wife and get what you want! ;)

Speakers that can go back against the wall, be colour co-ordinated, have curvy feminine lines, a narrow profile and an unobtrusive driver. Have I forgotten anything?

Don't know if you worked out the words and phrasing ...
You're doing a huge amount of what you're supposed to do in selling the product with that website
Now back to getting ours that good !

[Sovereign]

Speakers that can go back against the wall, be colour co-ordinated, have curvy feminine lines, a narrow profile and an unobtrusive driver. Have I forgotten anything?
Very nicely done Mike, great to bee up with you last week and thanks for making the effort!

[Stratmangler]

Excellent - sounds like you had a great evening.

Still really enjoying my Frugel3s - it's just a year now since I finished building them (tempus fugit), but Steve's look so much better than my effort I could weep :(

I'm currently trying Frugel super-tweeters with mine - will hopefully get some serious listening done over the weekend as I've only managed a quick listen so far since building the super-tweeters last weekend and so far am not sure if I like what they bring to the party (whatever that is).

Tonight I noticed that my SuperTweets were all over the place on top of the FH3 cabinets, so I lined 'em up with the front of the driver approx 5mm proud of the cabinet edge.
I didn't like the balance.
Moved the tweets so that things were level with the top edge of the cabinet, and bingo, everything fell into place.

Experimentation is key here - position things poorly and the sound will suffer.

BTW - I'm using the CHP-70 MkI drivers.

[keiths]

Thanks Chris. My supertweets are on mini open baffles as I didn't have the right size postal tube. The baffles lean back at 5 degrees to match the back slope of the main baffles and are currently blutacked with their fronts flush to the front of the main baffles. I too am using CHP 70 mark 1s and the tweeters are the CSS ERT 26s. They are still connected up - I'll have a good play sometime soonish.

[Stratmangler]

You might be getting a touch too much reflection off your mini baffles.
If that's the cause of some problems then you've stopped me from mounting the SuperTweets on the FH3 front baffle.
There is no rearward radiation, as the tweets are a sealed unit.

[keiths]

You might be getting a touch too much reflection off your mini baffles.
If that's the cause of some problems then you've stopped me from mounting the SuperTweets on the FH3 front baffle.
There is no rearward radiation, as the tweets are a sealed unit.

Did consider this and have some 5mm thick felt that I intend to glue to the front of the supertweeters' baffles at some point...

[Stratmangler]

Did consider this and have some 5mm thick felt that I intend to glue to the front of the supertweeters' baffles at some point...

It'd be interesting to hear what the outcome is :)

[keiths]

It'd be interesting to hear what the outcome is :)

Chris, what is your listening distance from the speakers?

[hoopsontoast]

Nice, I would like to hear some of the Mark Audio drivers, heard/owned some of the Jordan, Fostex, Veravox, Lowther, Bandor, CSS etc so it would be good to see what the fuss is about :)

[Stratmangler]

Chris, what is your listening distance from the speakers?

Around about 4 metres.

[keiths]

Around about 4 metres.

Thanks Chris. I think my problem is that I listen somewhat nearfield as my fh3s are only about 2.1 metres from the listening position. Add to that the fact my baffle implementation of the supertweeters increases the centre-to-centre seperation of the tweeter from the chp-70, I feel this is the root of my dissatisfaction with the sound with the supertweeters.

More work required, but as I'm about to move house this is now on the back-burner until I'm settled in.

[CageyH]

Are you gents still happy with the FH3's?
I'm tempted to DIY some due to cost, but Steve's versions look really nicely finished.
My only concern is my listening room, as these would be placed against the rear wall, with me listening about 2.5 to 3m away, all on a suspended floor.

[Stratmangler]

I'm still happy with mine.
Mine are up against a wall, as close up against the wall as the design permits.
Mine do stand on outriggers with spiked feet, and the spikes in turn connect with cups to prevent penetration into the floor.
I'm not a great fan of coupling speakers to the floor, especially suspended floor.

[chris@panteg]

Quite fancy trying a pair of these, do you need to use a sub with them ?

[Stratmangler]

Quite fancy trying a pair of these, do you need to use a sub with them ?

Nope!