View Full Version : Change from Audio Technica AT95E to what?
Last year I bought myself an SL1200 Mk2.
It came without a cartridge, so I bought the AT95E to make the deck useable, as funds were limited at the time. I had just bought some Isonoe feet, a techie Achromat and a Reflex M phono stage. As well as these minor upgrades, I also moved the standard power supply out of the case.
This has been a revelation, and whilst happy with the results I am sure a change in cartridge will eek out more performance.
I mainly listen to Rock (Pink Floyd, the Who etc.) as well as some other old stuff such as The Jam. I also listen to more up to date music such as AWOL Nation, daft punk, OMD, Adele etc.
I mainly use the deck through my Solo UL and HD650's. With this in mind, and a budget of about £250, what cartridge would you recommend?
I won't be able to upgrade the arm for a while, but I do plan to change the RCA output cable for a Van Damme version (probably Off eBay unless someone knows of a better source/Cable that is good value for money?).
I was thinking of the Goldring G1042, but a SAE1000E has also been suggested? To tell you the truth, I am a bit lost/overwhelmed with the choice. I know the law of diminishing returns applies to this as much as any other HiFi component, and I want to achieve a nice balanced/controlled soundstage, that is not too bass heavy and makes use of the equipment I have without breaking the bank.
Buy the SAE 1000LT or the E version, supposed to sound identical although one is a different tip from the other.
Line Trace or Eliptical I think the terms are anyway the E version is about £50 cheaper.
I was lucky enough to buy a NOS LT version from a fellow AOS member for a very good price but even from e-bay (Thacker) the price is pretty decent.
Certainly the best cart I've heard in my system but that's not saying much to be fair.
These carts are HOMC so can be played through a MM phono stage, the output is only 2.5mv but it's loud enough for my amp which is only an old A&E A60 with onboard MM stage.
My previous best cart was a Denon DL-110 but the SAE is in a different league to the Denon.
Tony
Audioman
19-06-2013, 20:50
Tony I think the general consensus is that the stock Techie arm is better suited to MM rather than lower compliance MC cartridges. Besides the Goldring I would suggest the AT440MLA - Sound Hi-Fi are doing it for £143.
kininigin
19-06-2013, 21:17
How about getting a better psu like this one http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?26037-Paul-Hynes-SR4-power-supply-update and maybe a Nagaoka MP-110 or Ortofon 2M Red? A touch over budget,but possibly bigger gains to be had than just a cart!
Tony I think the general consensus is that the stock Techie arm is better suited to MM rather than lower compliance MC cartridges. Besides the Goldring I would suggest the AT440MLA - Sound Hi-Fi are doing it for £143.
Hi Paul, I'm a complete noob here, does that mean that the SAE cart is not suited to the stock Techie arm?
I've a stock Techie arm and headshell and the cart sounds amazing to me but if a different arm makes it sound even better then I'm selling a kidney:eek:
I like the AT 95 cart...must be the only one here who does...works real well on my table.
freefallrob
20-06-2013, 13:42
I like the AT 95 cart...must be the only one here who does...works real well on my table.
No your not the only one who likes it! I do too with the standard rubber mat:).
The OP should look at the Ortofon 2M Blue on the standard arm.
Oldpinkman
20-06-2013, 15:03
Kevin
Another ex-pat - even nearer where we want to be (currently we are eying up a field near Quillan). You face the same problem I do. How do you tell what a cartridge sounds like from other peoples opinions? For what little its worth, I have the Goldring 1042 and its a decent cartridge capable of a really good performance in my system. It is a pretty easy load, and a good tracker (probably not so critical to you given your music preferences), and I would have no problem recommending it as competent. I have heard it in the techie arm, on a standard deck and it is well suited to it. Bang for buck, you will probably hear much bigger differences changing the arm at some stage - the standard techie is a well enough engineered very ordinary japanese arm, similar to countless others (not unlike the one on my micro seiki deck at uni). But the cartridge does so much more in my current arm. Don't know this German MC thing, but you can probably bet that recommendations for one, or the other, are not from people trying both in your system. You might miss out on something awesome with the MC cartridge I don't know, but you won't go wrong with the Goldring, which is good value. I'm interested in ideas for change, especially getting a better listen to a decca london, but in no hurry. And I certainly won't be lured MC for MC's sake.
Idlewithnodrive
20-06-2013, 15:25
From my experiences with the Techie with a standard arm, the AT440MLa is a good shout; tracks like a train. I also highly rated the Ortofon MC25FL.
Thanks for the feedback.
The cartridges all listed are on the short list.
I am tempted to push the boundaries slightly, as when I can afford to upgrade my arm, I can make the full use of the new cartridge.
The SAE carts are NOT MC carts they are High output moving coil carts which is exactly what a Denon DL-110 is, meaning that these carts can be played through a normal MM phono stage, they don't play well through MC phono stages because they have too high an output relative to a MC cart which are typically 0.3mv whereas the SAE and the Denon are 2.5mv and 1.6mv respectively.
Nihil Sleighride
20-06-2013, 21:07
I've gone with a Nagaoka MP - 15 in the first instance from here :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NAGAOKA-MP-15-STEREO-CARTRIDGE-MOVING-PERMALLOY-NOS-/261233216288?pt=Attrezzature_per_DJ&hash=item3cd2b68b20
But going to get a SAE to try and compare.
I have used an Ortofon 2m Red with the stock arm and it works well, maybe somthing higher in that range would suit?
Also used the Goldring 1042, this is much better and reviels more, trouble is like most fine line styli it also reveals every flaw, scratch and tick in splendid detail. If like me you have a lot of old/pre loved vinyl, somthing that is more forgiving of wear and tear should be high on your agenda, I had to stop listening to some of my albums with the Goldring, the flaws were highlighted so much it became intrusive. If you have mainly new vinyl, it is VERY good. VTA is critical on this cartridge but easy adjusted on the fly with a Technics.
A cheap option could be an HE stylus for the AT95E.... It's a real shame that AT didn't continue making Linn K9 styli, since the plastic K5 body but with a K9 stylus (the later batches were like this from new) gave a fantastic sound, sweeter than the metal-bracket K9 and lowish compliance for medium mass tonearms. With the stock shell but with better litz-style wiring (it looks posher at the very least :)), the 440MLa should be excellent while you work on deck upgrades:)
By the way, MC stands for Moving-Coil and these can be either low output, requiring a step-up of some sort, or high(ish) output which will drive a sensitive fixed coil (MM) phono stage :)
Oldpinkman
21-06-2013, 13:55
I have used an Ortofon 2m Red with the stock arm and it works well, maybe somthing higher in that range would suit?
Also used the Goldring 1042,..., trouble is like most fine line styli it also reveals every flaw, scratch and tick in splendid detail.
It's not just the cartridge that affects surface noise perception. I've always known amps do too. But a bit surprised to find the arm makes such a difference recently. I have some less than pristine records too, hence my interest in the record brush thread, and the fact that I am getting the "loaner" Moth to play with and try cleaning a few up. But I have found my latest set up noticeable quieter. I darent go technical cos Walpurgis will be on to me, and wouldn't dream of saying transients, but its to do with starting and stopping. 'Course, the U205...
Thought provoking feedback so far.
Thanks guys. Keep the suggestion coming in....
I think I am going for a 2M blue, and a PSU upgrade.
Next step will probably be a Mike New Bearing, and then the list goes on!
I was about to pull the trigger on a 2M blue when I came across a post of Marco recommending the MP-200.
It's got me thinking if that or a MP-150 would give me a good bang for buck.
Whilst I am at it, which power supply would you guys recommend?
I don't want to drop more than £400 on a PSU.
Stratmangler
05-10-2013, 19:40
Whilst I am at it, which power supply would you guys recommend?
I don't want to drop more than £400 on a PSU.
I'd have a go at removing the mains transformer and PSU board and putting it into an external enclosure first.
I found that to have quite a noticeable and beneficial effect.
However, if you're not into messing about there's this http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/power-supplies/380-technics-sl1200-1210-linear-power-supply.html
The Mike New Bearing is a must do - it is a big step up from the stock affair.
I have no intention of going back to the stock bearing.
Not sure if it is the same PSU, but it is much cheaper on eBay.
Canetoad
06-10-2013, 13:58
I was about to pull the trigger on a 2M blue when I came across a post of Marco recommending the MP-200.
It's got me thinking if that or a MP-150 would give me a good bang for buck.
Whilst I am at it, which power supply would you guys recommend?
I don't want to drop more than £400 on a PSU.
I've used an MP150 on my 1210 with standard arm and Sumiko headshell and it sounded very good indeed. Prices have gone up a bit since I bought mine though. Still a good combination in my system.
Whilst I am at it, which power supply would you guys recommend?
I don't want to drop more than £400 on a PSU.
Do it yourself and be gobsmacked at the improvement... And save all that cash for more records or a genuinely different cartridge -
PSU - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?26620-SL-1200-DC-Power-Supply-DIY
Arm wire - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?26652-Rewiring-SL-1200-Tonearm
Any upgrade I do on my SL1200 needs to pass the SWMBO approval test, so unless I find a nice box to externalise the PSU, she won't be happy.
I'll have a look and see if I can find a place to hide it first.
Another question, is there a way of telling when the deck was made?
If it is is really old, it may benefit from some capacitor/regulator mods or upgrades.
Clive197
09-10-2013, 09:21
Going back to the cartridge discussion. The 2M cartridge is a good solution but I would suggest the the 2M Bronze, or Black if funds allow.
Why you may ask, the 2M range is basically 4 models (not counting the Mono and 78RPM models) the Red and Blue and then the Bronze and Black. All four models can have there stylus's interchanged BUT!
The issue lies with the fact that the Bronze and the Black are actually different cartridges with improved internals but using the standard outer shell. If you want to upgrade by replacing for example a Blue to a Black by buying a Black stylus you actually have not got a Black just a Blue Improved.
The 2M bronze looks quite reasonable.
Which is the best match for the standard arm?
And MP150 Or a 2M bronze?
I like the idea of being able to change the Stylus to go to a 2M black.
That is a nice upgrade path to have available when I upgrade the tone arm etc. so thanks for the suggestion.
Any upgrade I do on my SL1200 needs to pass the SWMBO approval test, so unless I find a nice box to externalise the PSU, she won't be happy.
I'll have a look and see if I can find a place to hide it first.
Stuff if in the corner - it doesn't need to be visible.
Another question, is there a way of telling when the deck was made?
Yes - http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/m1200.htm
Clive197
09-10-2013, 15:14
The 2M bronze looks quite reasonable.
Which is the best match for the standard arm?
And MP150 Or a 2M bronze?
I like the idea of being able to change the Stylus to go to a 2M black.
That is a nice upgrade path to have available when I upgrade the tone arm etc. so thanks for the suggestion.
I have no experience of the MP150 but I would hazard a guess that they would both work fine. As I own a 2M Black I may well be a bit biased. I've only just got the cartridge as a back up to my Cadenza Bronze and have not yet taken it out of the box. I may well decide not to keep it and put in an ad. At a very good price. Watch the correct space for private ads.
I will be ordering my PSU upgrade tomorrow.
I'll see how that goes and order my cartridge at the end of the month.
I like the AT 95 cart...must be the only one here who does...works real well on my table.
I like the AT95 as well Grant it's a great sounding budget cart, however there are significant gains to be had by utilizing a better stylus. I purchased a hyper-eliptical stylus for my old AT95 from LPGear in the US which ended up costing me just under fifty quid a few years ago (at todays exchange rate it's just over £56). It offered a significant improvement in SQ over the standard elliptical stylus with increased dynamics, far better imaging and a more believable soundstage with plenty of width, height and more importantly, far better depth. This elevates the humble AT95 to new heights IMHO. LPGear also do a variant sporting a Shibata stylus for £85 at todays exchange rates which I guess would realise even more potential. See links below ;)
LP Gear ATN-95HE (http://www.lpgear.com/product/LPGATN95HE.html)
LP Gear ATN-95SA (http://www.lpgear.com/product/LPGATN95SA.html)
just found it Dave...thanks for the info....took me a while..it came over on the tappatalk but could not find it on the pc...
looks like a signifigant upgrade that...I have just recently installed a ortofon 2m red and it along with the new to me phono stage has the deck singing real well, but I may save up for one of those for later...I have 2 at95, 1 new in the packet...
Being able to replace the stylus is a consideration for me, so I think my list is down to the MP110, MP150, AT440MLA and the 2M Blue. I don't think I can justify a 2M Bronze at the moment (unless I find one cheap!). Any of these should be a step up from my 95E.
I think I need to get my Mike new Bearing and new tone arm (or tweaked tone arm) done before I spend big bucks on a cartridge.
navigator
13-10-2013, 21:54
Not sure if it is the same PSU, but it is much cheaper on eBay.
I'm no expert but I've been where u are and i'm confident enough to say that changes to the bits that physically move notably cart and speaker have a bigger effect [at this level] on repro.
I liked 2m blue for its price and its bright sound balance-lively -std techy and arcam MM input likes it. Some say the cheaper red is ok -for me the one I tried lost out-- poor tracker of inner grooves compared to blue. Love Nagoakes tho-- all do the job well. Goldring 1012/1042 VG in that arm -patience needed 4 setup.
Some of higher price AT carts are vg but can be very bright and maybe tiring with some lineups-perhaps avoid esp if speaker sound balance is 'toppy'.
Try to work out best arm/cart resonance frequency between 8 and 12 [internet sites] before purchase.
Maybe search out a nos mp-11
I think I have a plan. I am going for a Nagaoka MP-150, and will source a Shibata stylus for my AT95E.
The "Long Dog Audio" Linear power supply, purchased from David at MCRU has been fitted.
This was quite painless, and took me about 30 minutes in total. The only thing I may redo is wire in the on/off switch or disable the strobe.
I was just too impatient to get it back up and running again.
Just spinning my first side of the first disc now.
Initial impressions are good, but it's still early days. Bass is certainly punchier, and it seems there is more detail in the soundstage than before.
I am going to give this a few weeks before I fit my MP-150 to my standard Techie arm.
The "Long Dog Audio" Linear power supply, purchased from David at MCRU has been fitted.
This was quite painless, and took me about 30 minutes in total. The only thing I may redo is wire in the on/off switch or disable the strobe.
I was just too impatient to get it back up and running again.
Just spinning my first side of the first disc now.
Initial impressions are good, but it's still early days. Bass is certainly punchier, and it seems there is more detail in the soundstage than before.
I am going to give this a few weeks before I fit my MP-150 to my standard Techie arm.
Pl keep us updated!
About which bit? :eyebrows:
Power supply. I'm thinking about that upgrade.
It's difficult to describe the difference, as I no longer remember what it sounded like before.
For me it has made definite improvements, and I am happy with the upgrade.
I'll post a bit more during my next listening session.
It's difficult to describe the difference, as I no longer remember what it sounded like before.
Ah! I know that experience, and for me that is one of the reasons first impressions are so important. Still I am glad it has made an improvement.
I'm listening to a few tunes right now, and the noticeable thing is the music is less muddled.
There is clear separation between the instruments, and there seems to be more detail being dragged out of the vinyl. The bass is also tighter, and more authoratitive.
Of course, the above could be a load of BS, but it definitely sounds better to my ears, and that is the important thing.
I have just fitted my MP-150.
It's certainly a lot more musical, giving greater depth to the soundstage.
Treble is a tad harsh at times, but as I am in my first hour of using the cartridge, I am willing to give it time.
Initial impressions are good. I am quite happy with my choice.
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