What's the best record brush?

[TBL]

My anti static carbon brush is looking the worse for wear and is long overdue replacement. What make are recognised as the best around at the moment.

[Oldpinkman]

And while we're at it - any tips for cleaning old records. I daresay there's already something on here. If some kind gent could just point me the right way...

[Rare Bird]

Ive always used those Carbon Fibre brushes you see on auction for about a fiver, absolutly perfect. Now if more expensive branded ones do a better job id like to know ;)

[hifi_dave]

Get yourself to E-Bay and look for a Watts Disc Preener or Manual Parastat. Not found better in 50 years.

[TBL]

And while we're at it - any tips for cleaning old records. I daresay there's already something on here. If some kind gent could just point me the right way...

If budget is limited go for a Knosti Disco at about £40 on ebay. Better but a lot more expensive would be something like a Moth RCM 2nd hand at about £200+


Ive always used those Carbon Fibre brushes you see on auction for about a fibre, absolutly perfect. Now if more expensive branded ones do a better job id like to know ;)


That's my thoughts, but wondering if there are better ones and are they worth the extra money.


Get yourself to E-Bay and look for a Watts Disc Preener or Manual Parastat. Not found better in 50 years.

When new maybe but AFAIK all you can get these days are 2nd Hand and not sure there would be much point in replacing one knackered old cleaner for another of a different make.

[hifi_dave]

I recently bought a new, sealed in the wrapper, one of each. So, you can get them.

[RobbieGong]

Ive always used those Carbon Fibre brushes you see on auction for about a fiver, absolutly perfect. Now if more expensive branded ones do a better job id like to know ;)

+1 These types of carbon fibre, anti static brushes are great, the dust just lifts off. Loads available looking pretty much the same just with different brand names stamped on. They do a great job and if you avoid some of the much more expensive 'brand name' ones generally great value too. Never felt the need to use anything else :)

[navigator]

I mostly buy old vinyl and have tried many cleaning methods over decades.
My latest favourite is SOAKing for TEN minutes
in a strong mix of fairy platinum/warm [not hot] water.
then brush slowly with microfleece cloth both directions under the watermix.
Rinse thoroughly under strong shower spinning on a dowel or similar.
a different microfleece again rinsing with poured deionised water in clean bowel[car battery water -wilko etc] Water should be clinging to the cleaned grooves and drainoff lovely
Air dry -use kitchen paper towel for excess.
keep dry brushing to absolute minimum[it adds static and attracts dust-less if you earth urself when carbon brushing]
I Don't worry over labels too much after all I paid little and they are surprisingly resilient to water damage-drying back to previous condition ok.
Amazing amounts of muck come off-see the shine!!
Prized finds are then PERMOSTATED-pricey
I have vinyl over 40 years old so treated playing better than when new.
When playing crackly vinyl use a LIGHT misting of deionised water for spraymist bottle.as it revolves.[too much will clog stylus]
Really bad ones-use Ilfasol [or similar-rinseaid may suit] 2,3 drops ONLY in similar spray.
Several treatments are needed sometimes.
Needle will collect the deep loosened debris -so be ready to brush it using water from back to front
Clean sleeves with similar mix.
Patience needed and perseverance.-think ZEN or Karma.!!!

[Oldpinkman]

Does anyone remember the old zerostat pistol. Can you still get them. Im currently using axwet spong in an ashtray, and even by my standards that's scruffy.

[gariusmacus]

Does anyone remember the old zerostat pistol. Can you still get them. Im currently using axwet spong in an ashtray, and even by my standards that's scruffy.
I still got my old zerostat going strong after 30 odd years! yh you can still get them on ebay or amazon

[NRG]

My anti static carbon brush is looking the worse for wear and is long overdue replacement. What make are recognised as the best around at the moment.

Hunt EDA by far...

[Marco]

+1. It's the best one, if you must use a brush... Quite simply, though, you want to 'disturb' your records as little as possible.

Therefore, the best brush is NO brush! If you use an RCM, together with Nagaoka anti-static sleeves, brushes are unnecessary. Simply slip the record from its sleeve, pop it on the platter, sparkling clean, totally dust and static free, and you're ready to go! :exactly:

Marco.

[MikeMusic]

My latest favourite is SOAKing for TEN minutes
in a strong mix of fairy platinum/warm [not hot] water.
Do the labels always stay on ?

[MikeMusic]

Hunt EDA by far...
Good to hear as mine is still going fairly well, works fine, central section a little loose on the pad
Must be around 30 years old and cleaned a lot of records

[Audioman]

+1. It's the best one, if you must use a brush... Quite simply, though, you want to 'disturb' your records as little as possible.

Therefore, the best brush is NO brush! If you use an RCM, together with Nagaoka anti-static sleeves, brushes are unnecessary. Simply slip the record from its sleeve, pop it on the platter, sparkling clean, totally dust and static free, and you're ready to go! :exactly:

Marco.

+1. The only way I regularly use a brush (CA 2+2 (DECCA)) is to remove loose dust, in conjunction with a sticky roller, before wet cleaning on the RCM.


Good to hear as mine is still going fairly well, works fine, central section a little loose on the pad
Must be around 30 years old and cleaned a lot of records

I never have found the Hunt EDA that effective and the central pad never picks up the gathered dust entirely as intended. Just another way of pushing dust round the disc IMHO.

[MikeMusic]

I never have found the Hunt EDA that effective and the central pad never picks up the gathered dust entirely as intended. Just another way of pushing dust round the disc IMHO.
I've seen dust coming off really dusty records
Must bring my record cleaner into use for the really grubby ones

[Marco]

I'd view the Hunt as simply the best of a bad bunch. Like Paul says, brushes just move crud and dust around the record from one place to the next, and worse, in some cases, impregnate it further into the grooves, thus doing more harm than good! If you used a microscope to see the results, you'd soon appreciate why brushes are a no-no.

I've said it many times before, but people will still insist on cutting corners: the ONLY way (i.e. there is NONE other) of cleaning records effectively is to use an RCM, in conjunction with a proper record cleaning solution. If you're happy making a half-arsed job of it instead and RUINING your records in the process, then carry on using brushes and soaking your records in warm water with Fairy liquid, the latter which contains an ABRASIVE for removing grime from pots and pans!!! :doh:

Oh, and Mike, an RCM should be used on ALL your records (even brand new ones), as a matter of course, not simply your grubby ones! ;)

Marco.

[StanleyB]

I use something like THIS (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRIXES-Mini-Turbo-USB-Hoover-Vacuum-Cleaner-for-Laptop-PC-Computer-Keyboard-/200900416220?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Netwo rking&hash=item2ec69912dc) together with an anti static gun. No vinyl grooves are harmed during the operation since no physical contact is made between record and cleaner.

[MikeMusic]

Thanks Marco

I've had my cleaner for over 2 years and never used it
Could do with a minder to sort a lot of my stuff out for me
or is that a carer ?
:)

[Audioman]

The most effective manual (almost dry) cleaner I found was the original Discwasher Brush. This with a little fluid effectively removed dust from records and got down into the grooves. The current models mainly sold in the US are a cheap Chinese version that doesn't use the original pad design but is more like an ordinary piece of felt apparently. Unfortunately mine was taken with other hi-fi equipment in a break in years ago.

[Oldpinkman]

the ONLY way (i.e. there is NONE other) of cleaning records effectively is to use an RCM, in conjunction with a proper record cleaning solution.
Marco.

I presume RCM means "record cleaning machine" and not "Royal College of Midwives" :doh:- the result of my quick Google x-ref. But WHICH RCM?????????? And how good are they? I have for years stuck to "let the stylus clean it" - I have recently pushed the dust around with a knackered carbon fibre job, and the new arm is fearful kind to surface noise, but I have some old records I would like to rescue from the days when I wiped stuff on them, and once aerosoled on this muck that had to dry and peel off (I see from googling again that some nutter spreads wood glue on his records, with apparently good results)

http://www.conrad-uk.com/ce/en/product/345296?WT.mc_id=googlebase&insert=8V&adcampaign=googlebase&CAWELAID=357703974&catargetid=1921805620&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CNOFt5nX77cCFQTHtAodmwQA0A is certainly within my budget, and gets very good things said about it, with the main drawback seeming to be it is smelly messy and slow. I may buy one and have a punt, but I'm going to have to buy a record from a boot fair to try it on before I let it loose on my lot. I presume you have a Mercedes version Marco:rolleyes:

[horace]

For me, an RCM is the way to go. Not cheap, but a bargain nevertheless. I've lost count of the secondhand vinyl that's been utterly transformed after a clean (or two, in some cases).

Seriously, if you still do vinyl, get yourself an RCM. You won't regret it. You don't have to fork out for a Loricraft - plenty of very effective and less expensive options out there.

As others have said, use a brush only when absolutely necessary. The Hunt is as good as any IMHO.

For info, my RCM is here:

http://www.kabusa.com/ev1.htm

I ordered mine years ago from the above site. It's a bit more expensive now, but $169 plus delivery and import duty is still good value in my book. I reckon it does as good a job as the more expensive cleaners. It's just rather more basic.

Cheers

Martin

[Audioman]

I presume RCM means "record cleaning machine" and not "Royal College of Midwives" :doh:- the result of my quick Google x-ref. But WHICH RCM?????????? And how good are they? I have for years stuck to "let the stylus clean it" - I have recently pushed the dust around with a knackered carbon fibre job, and the new arm is fearful kind to surface noise, but I have some old records I would like to rescue from the days when I wiped stuff on them, and once aerosoled on this muck that had to dry and peel off (I see from googling again that some nutter spreads wood glue on his records, with apparently good results)

http://www.conrad-uk.com/ce/en/product/345296?WT.mc_id=googlebase&insert=8V&adcampaign=googlebase&CAWELAID=357703974&catargetid=1921805620&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CNOFt5nX77cCFQTHtAodmwQA0A is certainly within my budget, and gets very good things said about it, with the main drawback seeming to be it is smelly messy and slow. I may buy one and have a punt, but I'm going to have to buy a record from a boot fair to try it on before I let it loose on my lot. I presume you have a Mercedes version Marco:rolleyes:

Richard.

If you buy a Disco Anistat I strongly recommend you get a bottle of purified water and use this to do a second clean with the supplied bath. The supplied fluid tends to leave a deposit which the stylus picks up as you play. Worse records placed in antistatic sleeves leave a streaky pattern on record and sleeve over time. Also careful handling necessary to avoid fluid running on labels. Used as I recommend with the rinse it does an excellent job with no sleeve deposits or gunk on the stylus.

The 'RCMs' we are referring to are the vacuum jobs such as made by Okki Nokki, VPI and Moth.

http://www.okkinokki.co.uk/NewFiles/jb1.jpg

Paul.

[walpurgis]

I don't use a record cleaning machine and make my own record brushes using firm pile velvet backed by thin foam and mounted on any convenient holder (a bit of 3/8" hardwood works fine). I find this works better than my carbon fibre brushes on which the bristles flop about a bit too much.

I've considered making an RCM, but haven't attempted it yet.

[julesd68]

I'm using a MOFI (Mobile Fidelity) brush for wet cleaning with my RCM and if I spot any dust on the vinyl when it's on the deck, my Blue Horizon Probrush sorts it out. Seems to be a good combo, and haven't thought about changing them.

[Oldpinkman]

AK's going to lend me a moth. I'll report back. (May be a while before I report back on the FXR - he's just sold out). I'll get me some Nagaoka's as well

[TBL]

+1. It's the best one, if you must use a brush... Quite simply, though, you want to 'disturb' your records as little as possible.

Therefore, the best brush is NO brush! If you use an RCM, together with Nagaoka anti-static sleeves, brushes are unnecessary. Simply slip the record from its sleeve, pop it on the platter, sparkling clean, totally dust and static free, and you're ready to go! :exactly:

Marco.

Afraid I have to disagree on this one Marco. I own and regularly use a very expensive Nitty Gritty Pro double sided \rcm machine and all my records are kept in anti static sleeves and yet I still see surface dust which needs removing. You may be fortunate in either living in a vacuum or having a very very efficient Philippino houseboy to keep the air borne dust at bay, for the rest of it's permanently there and floating about just waiting to settle on our precious vinyl the moment it leaves the sleeve.

[Marco]

Hi Ian,

Tiny particles of surface dust are irrelevant, and are simply pushed aside by the stylus, during playback. These do not affect sound quality one iota or cause noise, providing that records have been deep-cleaned on an RCM. It's the ingrained DIRT inside grooves that brushes move about (on non-RCM cleaned records), along with the surface dust you mention, and which is impregnated further into said grooves, as a result, that's the problem! ;)

If you've cleaned your records *thoroughly* on your Nitty Gritty (and by that I don't mean simply a quick 2-minute pass. I spend ten minutes cleaning ONE record, with my VPI), and you use Nagaoka anti-static sleeves (and perhaps a quick zap with a Zerostat gun beforehand), then when you pull out records from said sleeves, unless you live in a really dusty environment, they should be in perfect condition to play and require no need for brushing :exactly:

If you want to remove surface dust, just gently blow it off of the record - that's far better than involving a brush and costs nothing!

Marco.

[TBL]

Hi Ian,

Tiny particles of surface dust are irrelevant, and are simply pushed aside by the stylus, during playback. These do not affect sound quality one iota or cause noise, providing that records have been deep-cleaned on an RCM. It's the ingrained DIRT inside grooves that brushes move about (on non-RCM cleaned records), along with the surface dust you mention, and which is impregnated further into said grooves, as a result, that's the problem! ;)

If you've cleaned your records *thoroughly* on your Nitty Gritty (and by that I don't mean simply a quick 2-minute pass. I spend ten minutes cleaning ONE record, with my VPI), and you use Nagaoka anti-static sleeves (and perhaps a quick zap with a Zerostat gun beforehand), then when you pull out records from said sleeves, unless you live in a really dusty environment, they should be in perfect condition to play and require no need for brushing :exactly:

If you want to remove surface dust, just gently blow it off of the record - that's far better than involving a brush and costs nothing!

Marco.

Marco, just so were not talking at cross purposes, When you bought the deluxe 45rpm Doors boxset recently, you spent 10 minutes cleaning each disc. Is that correct?

btw, there's no such thing as a free blow job.

[TBL]

Looking back through a recent thread (Sep last year)


The best, beyond question, is one of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hunt-EDA-Carbon-Fiber-Brush-LP-Record-milty-fibre-/150896546292?pt=US_Record_Player_Turntable_Parts&hash=item23222291f4

Well-made, durable, and extremely effective! :)

Marco.


Of course! :eyebrows:

It's an important part of my record cleaning regime. After records have been thoroughly cleaned on the RCM, and virtually static free, I gently brush them with the SK-II, to remove any risidual static, before popping them in Nagaoka anti-static sleeves. In that role, it is extremely effective, and no other device I've used removes static so well from records, even a Milty Zerostat gun.

It's the same process later. Once a record has been removed from its sleeve, and placed on the platter, ready to play, I give the surface of the record a quick brush with the Furutech, thus removing any miniscule amount of static, caused by the action of removing the record from its sleeve (no sleeve is 100% anti-static), and also any tiny particles of dust that may be present on the surface of the record.

The result? Utterly silent vinyl replay, in terms of absence of surface noise, almost akin to that when playing a CD, and this shows in the quality of recordings I've been making recently of music played on my turntable.

I insist on that level of resolution with vinyl and wouldn't settle for anything less. The notion that music on records is plagued with clicks and pops is, quite frankly, utter nonsense, provided that one's vinyl 'housekeeping' routine is diligently maintained, and one's records are stored/handled properly and kept in pristine condition! ;)

Marco.

I just wonder what's changed your mind in the last 9 months? :)

[John]

It should not be to hard to make a DIY record cleaning machine
I got a suitable platter and just would need to add some kind of small vacuum device and plinth
I must do it one of these days

[Marco]

Marco, just so were not talking at cross purposes, When you bought the deluxe 45rpm Doors boxset recently, you spent 10 minutes cleaning each disc. Is that correct?

btw, there's no such thing as a free blow job.

Lol! I spend less time than that on brand new records (probably half that), as they don't need deep-cleaning; merely the mould release agent removed from the manufacturing process.

However, with second-hand records, yup, a good 5 mins (working the cleaning fluid deep into the grooves, using the VPI brush, with the record stationary on the RCM's platter, then with the brush pressed gently onto the record surface while the platter is moving, and finally vac-sucking the accumulated crud off and letting the records dry fully, before applying the same process to the other side of the record, for another 5 mins.

I then play the record and listen to the results... If I can still hear pops and crackles, then it gets washed again, until it's as quiet as it's going to get! Yes, I *am* a perfectionist ;)

Marco.

[Marco]

Looking back through a recent thread (Sep last year)





I just wonder what's changed your mind in the last 9 months? :)

Ah, the Furutech brush is an entirely different product. It's primarily designed to remove static from the record surface, as no matter the record sleeves used, there is always a small amount of residual static left on the record surface, after it's been pulled from the sleeve. Therefore, a quick swipe with the Furutech brush completely removes any static charge on the record, as well as any surface dust.

The key difference between the Furutech and the Hunt, in terms of the latter, is that the Furutech is very light and has super-soft bristles, and so only very gently 'swishes' over the surface of the record, rather than digging deep into the record grooves (as the Hunt's stiffer bristles do) and disturbing or moving around any ingrained dirt (on non-RCM cleaned records).

That's the difference! :)

Marco.

[TBL]

Lol! I spend less time than that on brand new records (probably half that), as they don't need deep-cleaning; merely the mould release agent removed from the manufacturing process.

However, with second-hand records, yup, a good 5 mins (working the cleaning fluid deep into the grooves, using the VPI brush, with the record stationary on the RCM's platter, then with the brush pressed gently onto the record surface while the platter is moving, and finally vac-sucking the accumulated crud off and letting the records dry fully, before applying the same process to the other side of the record, for another 5 mins.

I then play the record and listen to the results... If I can still hear pops and crackles, then it gets washed again, until it's as quiet as it's going to get! Yes, I *am* a perfectionist ;)

Marco.


Maybe that explains the 10 minutes. These days I mostly buy new and always give them a clean first, but only 1 minute per side. More than enough imo. For 2nd hand, which I rarely buy these days, I would only ever buy from a trusted dealer blind or with a visual inspection first if buying from someone I didn't know. So if something was so crud infested that it would need a 10 minute clean I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I would sooner pay more and get a copy that someone had looked after. A couple of years ago I bought a batch of 50-60 albums from a well know and respected forum member who described them as VG+ to EX-. When I got them my rating ranged from awful- to adequate+. I kept 2 the rest went to the dump, they were so bad I couldn't even take them to a charity shop.

You may be a perfectionist Marco, but so am I. Except my solution is not to buy crap in the first place. I have better things to do with my life than buy crud infested vinyl and clean it up :lol

[Marco]

Lol, you're completely missing the point, dude! :doh:

The second-hand vinyl I buy is not "crud-infested" - FAR FROM IT!! Any second-hand vinyl I buy is very carefully selected (bought after physically flicking through the selection in my favourite record shops), and it has to be at the minimum, in near-mint condition, before I'll touch it. Therefore, the condition of the records (and their covers) is always very carefully inspected.

However, what looks to be in near-mint condition, to the naked eye, is often far from it once said records are exposed to the scrutiny of playback on a T/T, where noise (clicks and pops), due to deeply-ingrained dirt inside the grooves, is ruthlessly revealed! This is especially the case with classical records, during the quietest passages of music.

The reason I spend around 10 mins, on each record, when cleaning ALL my second-hand vinyl, is simply because some of the ingrained dirt (invisible to the naked eye) is more difficult to shift than others, so I simply take the view of 'clean it to within an inch of its life', as a matter of course, and chances are I won't have to repeat the process again, when I listen. Furthermore, the cleaner a record is, the BETTER IT SOUNDS, and so one simply cannot have records that are 'too clean'!! :exactly:

I trust that you now (finally) understand where I'm coming from? ;)

Marco.

[MCRU]

Interesting thread, the Knosti is very good for the money and at under £40 does a very good job, not as good as a full blown RCM but not everyone has £400+ to spend on one. I sold about 6 this week as it happens, maybe it's because of this thread who knows! Record brushes come in all shapes and sizes, the best by far is the Furutech brush but at £107 is only for obsessives like me and Marco, once you have the Furutech you will never need another brush.

If the OP has still not bought a brush he can pm me for one for "FREE" this one in fact here (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/usb-cables/659-tonar-dustaway-record-brush.html). Can't say fairer than that.

[TBL]

I trust that you now (finally) understand where I'm coming from? ;)

Marco.


Nope, life's way too short to be that anal, but each to his own and if it keeps you happy Marco then good luck to you. But perhaps I'm just lucky because out of the 1,000 records or so on my shelf and listening to at least 3 hours every single day I can hardly ever remembering hearing any clicks or pops, that despite only having a 2 minute clean. I guess I must just be born lucky. :cool: either that or I am totally deaf.

[TBL]

Interesting thread, the Knosti is very good for the money and at under £40 does a very good job, not as good as a full blown RCM but not everyone has £400+ to spend on one. I sold about 6 this week as it happens, maybe it's because of this thread who knows! Record brushes come in all shapes and sizes, the best by far is the Furutech brush but at £107 is only for obsessives like me and Marco, once you have the Furutech you will never need another brush.

If the OP has still not bought a brush he can pm me for one for "FREE" this one in fact here (http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/usb-cables/659-tonar-dustaway-record-brush.html). Can't say fairer than that.

PM sent :):)

[Marco]

Nope, life's way too short to be that anal, but each to his own and if it keeps you happy Marco then good luck to you. But perhaps I'm just lucky because out of the 1,000 records or so on my shelf and listening to at least 3 hours every single day I can hardly ever remembering hearing any clicks or pops, that despite only having a 2 minute clean.

Cool. Maybe that's because, as you say, these days you mostly buy new? The point I'm making is that the real condition of second-hand vinyl is unpredictable, until you actually play it, and some of us are fussier than others at the quality of the results obtained after cleaning ;)

Marco.

[Audioman]

Cool. Maybe that's because, as you say, these days you mostly buy new? The point I'm making is that the real condition of second-hand vinyl is unpredictable, until you actually play it, and some of us are fussier than others at the quality of the results obtained after cleaning ;)

Marco.

Marco.

The problem is you can only clean 2nd hand vinyl so much. If it's still noisy after a couple of cleans (should only take about 3 mins per clean), its likely groove damage or pressing quality that accounts for any perfections. As you say can't always tell condition visually.

Ian - no audible clicks and pops in 1000 records is an impossibility given the quality of both past and present record manufacturing.

Paul.

[Marco]

The problem is you can only clean 2nd hand vinyl so much.

Absolutely, Paul. However, sometimes that point is reached more quickly (with fewer washes) than others :)

Marco.

[TBL]

Cool. Maybe that's because, as you say, these days you mostly buy new? The point I'm making is that the real condition of second-hand vinyl is unpredictable, until you actually play it, and some of us are fussier than others at the quality of the results obtained after cleaning ;)

Marco.

That still doesn't change the fact that 70% of vinyl is over 30 years old and a huge proportion of that WAS bought 2nd hand. But strangely with only a quick clean it is all click and pop free. So why do you think yours suffers so much from this (before you clean it) I suppose its possible a 2 min clean on my RCM does as good a job as yours does in 10. At the rate you've used yours perhaps you've just worn it out prematurely and it just takes longer to get the job done. I have the same problem with my 5 year old Dyson.

[Marco]

Lol... It's obviously because you're a super-duper record washer, with a super-duper record cleaner and super-duper records, whereas I occupy a state of inadequacy on all counts.

Marco.

[TBL]

At last you (finally) understand. But seriously maybe you should get your rcm checked out and given a good service, because a decent well running rcm should be able to do a proper clean in a couple of minutes 95%+ of the time.

[TBL]

Ian - no audible clicks and pops in 1000 records is an impossibility given the quality of both past and present record manufacturing.

Paul.

Paul, You're miss quoting, I didn't say NO audible clicks. I said "hardly ever" not the same thing at all. Even our senior daftee wouldn't claim to never have a click or pop. So for example last night I played 5 albums (one side only) and if there was a click or pop I didn't hear it. another evening and there might well have been, the odd one or two, but very infrequent and very low level. And the thought of spending 1000 x (an extra) 8 mins to eliminate the occasional low level pop would be a total waste of time.

[Marco]

At last you (finally) understand. But seriously maybe you should get your rcm checked out and given a good service, because a decent well running rcm should be able to do a proper clean in a couple of minutes 95%+ of the time.

Not at all. There's bugger all wrong with the VPI. Furthermore, the term "a proper clean" is highly subjective. Are we talking about your version of "a proper clean" or mine? ;)

All a semi-automatic RCM can do is spin the platter and suck up, with its vacuum pump, the accumulated dirt from records, loosened after someone has used the brush to work the cleaning solution gently into the record grooves.

It's the manual side of the process that ultimately controls the quality of the results obtained - and I'm simply willing to apply more 'elbow grease', in that respect, than you! How do you know that, as a result, my records don't end up being cleaner? :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Marco]

And the thought of spending 1000 x (an extra) 8 mins to eliminate the occasional low level pop would be a total waste of time.

So you're now admitting that my efforts may be beneficial? Lol! Eliminating the occasional low-level pop, as you refer to it, especially with recordings of classical music, on vinyl, for me, is extremely necessary and worthwhile.

Some of the late 1950s/early 1960s classical music, on 'famous labels', which I buy second-hand from charity shops, even though it looks 'near mint', to the naked eye, requires rather a lot of cleaning before background noise, during the playback of quiet passages of music, is reduced to acceptable levels - that's acceptable levels for me (i.e. as close as possible to a near-deathly silence).

Aside from anything else, I enjoy the process of cleaning records and find it rather therapeutic, so how long it takes to carry out to my satisfaction is irrelevant. I simply put on some music, perhaps pour myself a nice glass of wine, relax and take my time. Fortunately, being semi-retired and working from home means that I have ample time to do these things... ;)

Marco.

[TBL]

So you're now admitting that my efforts may be beneficial?
Marco.


The first 2 minutes yes the next 8 are as I said a total waste of time. Time which I would prefer to spend listening to the music, but If you prefer the sound of an rcm to that of music who am I to argue. So perhaps we can both agree that we have different views and priorities and continue what is in essence a pointless discussion as neither of is likely to see eye to eye on this. What we both clearly agree on is that records need to be cleaned and that an rcm is the best way to achieve that. To devote 4 pages of a thread in debating how long to clean a record for shows only that both of us have way to much time on our hands.

[Marco]

Please remember that I'm listening to music, during the record cleaning process, so my diligence in wanting to have pristine clean records isn't impacting adversely on my music listening... Anyway, I'm all for ending this little debate, Ian, as soon as you stop making absolutist statements, such as this:


The first 2 minutes yes the next 8 are as I said a total waste of time.


Add 'IMHO' after "said" (above), or 'YMMV', at the end, and we can happily move on! ;)

Marco.

[struth]

I have a record cleaning machine which cost a small fortune but works real well....use cleaning fluid and a standard old type wooden handled nail brush which works better than all the fancy ones on sale....took me a while to pluck up the courage to use it but , boy does it work and it does not scratch the record...

[TBL]

Marco, A prominent AOS member recently said that the biggest problem with you as a forum leader is that you always want to have the last word and always add that last little dig at the end even when it's totally unnecessary. Very reminiscent of certain subjectivist. Part of me in this debate wanted to find out if he was right, I think I now realise what he meant. I wont respond any more to this thread and although I might hang about that'll be about all I do.

[Marco]

Marco, A prominent AOS member recently said that the biggest problem with you as a forum leader is that you always want to have the last word...

Lol... Pot > kettle > black, mate!!! You'd try the patience of a saint :D

Perhaps this "prominent AOS member" should have the balls to identify himself, rather than go bleating to you behind my back? One thing I can't stand is 'sweetie wives'.

As for digs, Ian, I'm not the one making the absolutist statements, suggesting that your method of cleaning records is a complete waste of time, am I? Incidentally, that question was rhetorical.

Anyway, I suggest that we leave it there now and move on. Any more remarks from you will be deleted, in order to prevent a further pointless and circular argument.

Marco.

[navigator]

Do the labels always stay on ?

Yes they do but remember I do state that I am referring to charity shop or similar vinyl when advantage is easily obtained cheaply by said process for removal of deep muck and resale/cosmetic value is already poor so not a factor to me [but music is good].
Marco and Linn Co heard my vinyl cleaned in this way at successful Scalford show demos. A o S show demo will also feature my favourite vinyl cleaned this way if access is granted. Newer vinyl is minimally brushed with permostat.
I do not have cash or space for an RCM at moment but it is a desire unfulfilled.
Tip -before adding chemicals [incl water] to an LP put a some onto a mirror and watch it dry in good daylight. Obviously we want nothing left on the mirror.

[MikeMusic]

I need to buy the materials for my RCM. Priority and focus !

[Oldpinkman]

I thought I'd already posted this but senility has struck hard. Apologies if I've missed it in this thread but any recommendations for cleaning fluid to use in the moth I have borrowed? What & where from?

[AlfaGTV]

You will most likely get as many answers, as there are users of vacuuming record cleaners! :)

Mine is quite simple:
Dry cleaning with a carbon fibre/velvet pad combo to get the worst crud off.
Prewash with a mixture of distilled water/aqua purificata and 15% IPA (No, not Imperial Pale Ale, but IsoPropyl Alcohol) and a a couple of drops of Fairy ("Yes", it's called here in Sweden) Applied with toriginal Okki Nokki brush in circular motion to work up a slight foam, which will lift most crud out of the grooves.
Vacuum once, and then on to the finishing cleaning:
L'Art Du Son, expensive as f.u.c.k., but worth every penny, and will cover more records than you can imagine. Appliied with a Mobile Fidelity velvet brush and also used in circular motion to create a light foam.
Finish off with vacuum to almost dry, a little too much and you have just created Static Electricity!

I would'nt say it take 5 minutes per side, but something like 3-4 minutes...

Results are very good!

Best wishes
//Mike

[Oldpinkman]

OK - Arthurs moth turns out to be a single direction unit of considerable vintage (but unused - the box he gave it to me in was his old - and I mean old - address)
My supplies arrived half an hour ago. Too impatient to create home brew I bought a bucket of Moth cleaning solution and 100 Nagoaka sleeves.
Just using Moth's instructions to start with and the supplied stiff bristle brush. (Chucked record cleaner everywhere to start with getting it out of a 5 litre pot - now have a small milk bottle :))

1st record - Queen - A Night at the Opera - Sue's brothers and more than just dirty. Moth instructions 3 revolutions, quick hoover. Not bad. Still a lot of fish & chips frying but the sound has opened up to "normal" not congested ye ole record player which it was before. Promising

2nd record (Surely this must be a nomination for one of the all time greats) Bob Seger "Stranger in Town". Recently acquired 2nd hand record - allegedly in VGC (got wet in the post) but dirty noisy, and disappointing (no idea what happened to my original). This time a bit of a more thorough clean, lots of scrubbing, at least 6-8 revolutions, and 3 turns on the hoover. Better. Still not Marco's silence, but improved dynamics, and quieter noise. So - back for another 10 revs, 2 sets of solution, lots of scrubbing and then the hoover. I think further improvement, but there is a law of diminishing returns. Of course, what I lack compared to Mercedes machines, is the ability to clean the record in both directions. But promising. Back to the day job, and then I'll give it a go on my first proper LP - Pink Floyd Wish you Were Here (now I've established its safe) :)

[Marco]

1st record - Queen - A Night at the Opera - Sue's brothers and more than just dirty. Moth instructions 3 revolutions, quick hoover. Not bad. Still a lot of fish & chips frying but the sound has opened up to "normal" not congested ye ole record player which it was before. Promising

2nd record (Surely this must be a nomination for one of the all time greats) Bob Seger "Stranger in Town". Recently acquired 2nd hand record - allegedly in VGC (got wet in the post) but dirty noisy, and disappointing (no idea what happened to my original). This time a bit of a more thorough clean, lots of scrubbing, at least 6-8 revolutions, and 3 turns on the hoover. Better. Still not Marco's silence, but improved dynamics, and quieter noise. So - back for another 10 revs, 2 sets of solution, lots of scrubbing and then the hoover. I think further improvement, but there is a law of diminishing returns.

Nice one, Richard. Good to hear that someone else has found that there's merit in applying a bit of elbow grease and giving records more cleaning time, when using an RCM, than just a two minute pass! ;)

Let us know how you get on when you experiment further :)

Marco.

[Graeme]

Bit of a thread bump, but thought i'd share my record cleaning ritual.

I use an old platter/bearing mounted in a bit of wood (from a lenco, the weight helps) I spin it by hand.

I lightly dry brush first, just to remove anything large that might get ground in.
Then flood the surface with record cleaner (home made iso/DI water/drop of soap) and scrub, moderate pressure, (along the grooves obviously)
I then spin quickly to throw off most of the liquid.
Then flood with DI water, light brush then spin again.

Now things get controversial :lol:

Spin the record FAST (as fast as i can make it spin) and with a hand held steamer (DI water again) i jet the surface, from the center out, with steam. Taking maybe 10 seconds on a side. Get the jet close to the surface to force it into the grooves, aim the jet outwards too. This forces any remaining residue and dirt to the outside of the record and off the side.

I then put it in a dish rack to dry before new inner sleeve.

Some thin records will lift at the outside (like a shallow bowl), quite drematicaly sometimes, but by the time you reach the outer grooves they lay perfectly flat again.
Some SLIGHTLY warped records have even flattened doing this.

Practice on cheap stuff first, but all my records get this treatment now no matter how valuable as i have full confidence in the procedure.

Ive not found any better method yet.

Although ive not damaged any yet, im sure if you dont spin fast enough you would probably localise the heat too much and ruin it.

It also gets the surrounding area quite wet so i set it up on a bench in the garage.

[walpurgis]

Radical to say the least Graeme, but if it works.....

[Graeme]

Sure does!
Im not the first to do it though.

Anyone tried ultransonics?

[pjdowns]

Bit of a thread bump, but thought i'd share my record cleaning ritual.

I use an old platter/bearing mounted in a bit of wood (from a lenco, the weight helps) I spin it by hand.

I lightly dry brush first, just to remove anything large that might get ground in.
Then flood the surface with record cleaner (home made iso/DI water/drop of soap) and scrub, moderate pressure, (along the grooves obviously)
I then spin quickly to throw off most of the liquid.
Then flood with DI water, light brush then spin again.

Now things get controversial :lol:

Spin the record FAST (as fast as i can make it spin) and with a hand held steamer (DI water again) i jet the surface, from the center out, with steam. Taking maybe 10 seconds on a side. Get the jet close to the surface to force it into the grooves, aim the jet outwards too. This forces any remaining residue and dirt to the outside of the record and off the side.

I then put it in a dish rack to dry before new inner sleeve.

Some thin records will lift at the outside (like a shallow bowl), quite drematicaly sometimes, but by the time you reach the outer grooves they lay perfectly flat again.
Some SLIGHTLY warped records have even flattened doing this.

Practice on cheap stuff first, but all my records get this treatment now no matter how valuable as i have full confidence in the procedure.

Ive not found any better method yet.

Although ive not damaged any yet, im sure if you dont spin fast enough you would probably localise the heat too much and ruin it.

It also gets the surrounding area quite wet so i set it up on a bench in the garage.

Wow Graeme, that's some serious cleaning procedure you use there. How often do you carry it out? I'm assuming not ever time?

[Graeme]

LOL, no, just once even if brand new.
Nothing gets played fully, or regularly untill it gets this treatment.

After that they just get a quick once round with a bog standard brush before playing.

[pjdowns]

Great - I was thinking that you'd be forever cleaning your Vinyl otherwise :)

[navigator]

Radical to say the least Graeme, but if it works.....

Graeme that's similar to my routine for charity shop records. I use Fairy platinum detergent now and let it soak on for 5-10 mins [with some brushing]before the rinse-vg.
I have a mister plastic bottle pump thingy for a fine light misting whilst playing 'bad 'crackly ones .The mist is 100mls water and a few drops of IPA to aid penetration into groove by reducing surface tension.
I try to avoid brushing overly as it adds static which attracts dust deep in groove and is heard on the next time its played.
[Permostat is best over long time-- expensive so only on favourites for me]
If anyone suffers static bad-- try touching an earthed point [metal amp case say] before touching anything else-esp when brushing so as not to add static from yourself onto vinyl. Carpet near deck -is it making static into your feet? Are your clothes holding static -change to cotton!!
I know Iknow! Someones going to reply with a picky of naturist playing vinyl on a grass lawn!!

[Graeme]

Its the steam that makes the difference ;).

As for playing wet, is it true that once played wet you always need to play it wet otherwise its noisy?

No way i'd playing records wet with my apheta though!

[The Grand Wazoo]

Interesting...so thinking laterally (or maybe, in this case tangentially) for a moment about the run-off, if I were to adopt your procedure and choose my location carefully, then I'd be able to clean my records, wash the car AND water the garden, all at the same time? Perhaps boil an egg for supper too?

[doodoos]

Why piddle around? Just buy a Keith Monks and be done with it! Use it before each play and your stylus will love you for a long time. You know it makes sense!

[Graeme]

The grand wazoo, yes, with a little planning that could probably be arranged.

doodoos, i prefer this method to vacuum cleaning.

[cuddles]

+1 on the steam. Brought many records from hissy and crackly to inky blackness between tracks and greater inner detail ;