Technics SL-1400 mk2

[RochaCullen]

Hey Folks, just got myself a 1210 , but have the opportunity to get my hands on a Technics SL-1400 mk2. Anybody got any impressions. The cueing lever is no longer functioning. Apparently this is common enough.

I love the aesthetics of it.

One thing I can't manage to get a pic of is the feet. Are they screw in feet like the 1210.

[DSJR]

The under-tray was suspended IIRC and the cueing failure is common to almost all of this series with arm, as there's a nylon/delrin sleeve around the fixed under-pillar which splits. A PITA to strip the deck down to get at this part, which Technics haven't had available as a spare for twenty or more years now. There was someone offering a repair I believe..

The best one of this series thirty five years later is te SL150mk2. The one you are considering is ok, but a bit full of itself sonically, so careful mat and siting choice is mandatory IMO.

[RochaCullen]

So that cueing problem is a bit more serious than I thought.

Can the arm be swapped out as easy as it can with the 1210.

[RochaCullen]

Well I bit the bullet and took a punt on the SL-1400 mkII.

I picked it up from Dublin on my way down to Cork from the airport (spent two weeks in bournemouth/southbourne) and it looked in reasonable to good condition. When I got home I plugged it in and the TT played perfectly; the lovely LEDs lit up nicely and the speed was spot on. I just love how the table looks. First impressions were that the deck sounds a little bloated/less defined compared to the SL-1210, but still has great bass and hopefully with a bit of careful mat matching and new feet I can sort out my misgivings. The cueing mech is of course knackered. So I left her alone to get on and do a bit of research on how this can be rectified.

Turns out the cueing mech problem is almost universal on these units, and a quick bit of googling reveals that the problem can be resolved by reconstructing a plastic cam contained in the arm. Next came a trip to vinyl engine and a quick download of the service manual so I knew how to properly take the deck apart. One thing the various posts on the net, regarding the repair of the cam, fail to mention is how deeply buried this cam is. DSJR mentions this in his post above, but I suppose I was just being optimistic. It took only a few minutes to pull apart the TT, but the arm took a lot longer. And, of course, Murphy's Law had to rear its head: I managed to strip the very final screw. So now I have to figure out how to get this thing out, and all repairs will be postponed till I can manage that.

I've been taking pictures all the way through so I dont lose track of where things go. So once I get this screw out and the cam repaired, I'll start posting the pics.

Lets hope I get this stubborn screw out. Might have to buy myself a dremel.

The plan is to concentrate on repairing the cueing mechanism, which should reinstate the semi auto return function also. When I have confirmed that works as it should I may then go back inside and rewire the tone arm. Thing is the arm has a muting function, which means the wiring is a bit more complicated than it might otherwise be. The muting function kicks in based on the position of the arm, i.e., when the VTA comes above a certain level. I suppose I could remove the the muting function and simplify the wiring.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome.

:) Nathan

[RochaCullen]

So I finally managed to get that screw out that refused to budge, and I thought I would post some pics of what I've done so far:

First of all I totally disassembled the deck as per the service manual, and then moved onto the arm where the pesky cam lives:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/25_7_2013180.jpg

This pic shows the arm with a couple of items removed and the board to which the internal tonearm wire connects ready to come off.

Here is the muting mech that I mentioned, which complicates the tonearm wiring a bit:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/25_7_2013181.jpg

Down to the last stubborn screw:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/25_7_2013186.jpg

I had to borrow the father-in-law's screw removers to finally get that last screw out.

Once this was gone I could lift off that last plate and get hold of the cam that was causing the problem:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/25_7_2013201.jpg

You can see the split in the cam, which was caused by the plastic shrinking over time around the brass innards causing it to split.

I tried using some JB Weld to fix this as some folks have reported on, but this didnt really work. I have another plan in the works which involves a visit to a friend of mine who runs a jewellers. More on this later.

Meanwhile I started on the internal rewire of the tonearm, mainly prompted by my snapping one of the existing internal wires.

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/25_7_2013218.jpg

A picture just to remind myself where the wires went. I have a very short memory span. :)

By first attaching the new cardas wiring to the existing wiring I pulled the new wiring through the arm:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/25_7_2013222.jpg

And out the other side:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/25_7_2013221.jpg

As the existing wire was not soldered in place but attached using cartridge clips, so I decided to raid my vault of parts and use another set to attach the new wire:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/25_7_2013219.jpg

Next was the step of unsoldering the old wire from the board:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/25_7_2013197.jpg

I have yet to solder the new stuff in place. I am waiting to have the cam in place and functioning first.

So I moved onto the external wiring:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/25_7_2013224.jpg

The SL-1400 has a nice method of strain relief on the external wire, but which meant I had to use a thinner cable than I had intended. I ended up using some mogami balanced mic cable plus some vampire connectors which will do the job nicely. I didnt manage to take a photo of these in place as yet.

More to come. Lets hope the visit to the jewellers and availing of his tools helps my plight.

[DSJR]

Good luck - I did warn you didn't I? :)

The bloated bass is almost certainly a mat and siting issue and possibly the headshell, although at the time I never managed to do these sort of comparisons. Getting the exit lead to amp changed will certainly clean things up and as you've also done the internal wires too......:)

Good luck with the mat and so-on. I don't think the platter is too ringy (can't remember) on its own, so a cork/acrylic fleabay mat or dearer Funk-type mat may be just the ticket for this deck. I also can't remember if the arm on these had the lower mass tube of the 1210 models, but if it has, you should be able to use the AT120e and similar more delicate Nagaoka's safely enough, as well as things like the Shure 97XE.

I'm sure it's somehow possible to staple or splice this split part somehow, but I wasn't able to come up with anything and my mate just used his as a manual deck from then on.

[phonomac]

Hello Rocha,
The key to fixing the cam is to use a wire binding first, then epoxy.

Here's one I did last month:

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u486/phonomac/DSCF0153_zpsbfbdb1fc.jpg

I've got a spare repaired one - if you want to send me yours, I'll send you the repaired one in exchange.

The reason that they break is because of the original assembly method. There is a groove in the circumference of the bearing bush (the grey part), and the cam has a ridge moulded into it so that when the cam is forced over the bush the ridge snaps into the groove giving a nicely assembled pre-ordained failure.

regards

Angus

[RochaCullen]

Thanks Dave,

Yes, the cam is a bit of a problem. I think I am going to try using a cable tie. I found some nice small ones that are very strong. My plan is to file down a little trench all the way around the cam the same width as the cable tie, so the cable tie can sit in nice and secure and so it will not be too proud of the cam surface. Get the cable tie nice and tight and all should be well. It was working fine without filing the came surface, but it did slightly touch the base of the arm, which you dont want. The little trench should eliminate this.

Also it looks like I might have to redrill the internal hole to take it back up to the full ten mm required for the brass thingy it turns on.

I'd run out of space in my office to work on this, so put the arm pieces on a tray and took them into the kitchen to work on the arm there, and my wife walked in and immediately said: "Its funny the weird things you boys find fun". I had to admit she was right.

[RochaCullen]

Hello Rocha,
The key to fixing the cam is to use a wire binding first, then epoxy.

Here's one I did last month:

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u486/phonomac/DSCF0153_zpsbfbdb1fc.jpg

I've got a spare repaired one - if you want to send me yours, I'll send you the repaired one in exchange.

The reason that they break is because of the original assembly method. There is a groove in the circumference of the bearing bush (the grey part), and the cam has a ridge moulded into it so that when the cam is forced over the bush the ridge snaps into the groove giving a nicely assembled pre-ordained failure.

regards

Angus

Wow that looks great, and is it holding for you. I used the epoxy and it just fell apart on me. What do you think of my idea with the cable tie?

I thought of using wire and tried it with a straighened paper clip, but I failed to get the thing to wrap properly.

[phonomac]

Hello Rocha,
Yes it is holding fine - I have done several now and they are all working fine.

What you don't see in the photo is that the cam is drilled through in the two thickest parts and the wire is fed through the holes and the ends twisted to both tension and fasten the wire. The tension in the wire ensures that the cam seats on the bush. Then it's all coated with JB-Weld.

You need to use malleable wire so that you can twist the ends and tension it. I used 0.022" enamelled copper (can't remember the gauge) and a 0.023" drill.

I think I would not want to file a groove the size of even a small cable tie around the cam - it's thin enough already.

regards

Angus

[RochaCullen]

Hey Angus,

I will definitely send you on mine. I'd be delighted if you would have a go at repairing it. I'll send you on the JB Weld I bought as well, as I obviously have no idea how to use it ;)

I'll happily compensate you for any time spent on fixing the cam. PM me your address and I will get the item off to you in the post ASAP.

Many thanks

Nathan

[RochaCullen]

Well,

I posted the cam off to Angus on Friday, as I am not afraid to admit when I am beat, and the cam repair was just a little too fiddly for my limited skill-set.

Really looking forward to getting it back and putting the mass of parts back together. More pics to follow.

:cool:

[RochaCullen]

I finally managed to get everything together that I needed and I began the reassembly.

Credit for the recommission of this great deck goes mainly to Angus who responded to my earlier posts and offered to help me by fixing the broken cam. Angus went even further than that and supplied me with some specialist lubrication for the various cogs and cams involved in the techie's inards. So all in all, a big thanks to Angus. :youtheman:

A pic of the repaired cam as performed by Angus:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair1.jpg

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair2.jpg

The cam is now placed on the bottom plate for the tonearm assembly:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair3.jpg

And then the arm lift shaft is added which goes up and down with the movement of the cam:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair4.jpg

The spring and circlip are then added to the bottom of the shaft and then the bottom plate is attached to the base of the tonarm:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair5.jpg

Here you can see the muting mech, the base of the anti-skate, a couple of stray earth wires and the new cardas internal require.

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair6.jpg

Here is the reattached PCB for the tonarm wire:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair7.jpg

The tonearm wire is then soldered onto the PCB and the tonearm fixed onto the TT base plate (I had to redo this again as there was a bit of a hum when I first tried the table out, I later sorted this by redoing my sloppy soldering):

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair8.jpg

The next stage is to connect up all the wiring and fix the top plate onto the base plate of the TT, and here is the top plate waiting to go back on:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair9.jpg

The top plate back in place:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair10.jpg

Then reapply the protective cover:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair11.jpg

The next stage is to turn the TT over and add the plastic cover that goes around the outside rim of the base and also holds the small TT feet:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair12.jpg

The plastic cover in place:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair13.jpg

Then we plug everything back in, and add a headshell and cartridge:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair14.jpg

Final part, play some vinyl:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/technics_revamp/technics_camfix/t_camRepair15.jpg


Unfortunately the auto return is not really doing the job properly, but the cueing is now working as it should, so I just turn off the auto return and cue as you normally would on a techie.



The TT is sounding fantastic. The total set of mods/repairs were:

- Upgrade the internal tonarm wire to cardas.
- Free up the antiskate which had stuck over time.
- Upgrade the external tonearm wire and RCA connectors.
- Upgrade the captive power lead.
- Repair the lube the broken cueing cam. Thanks again Angus.
- Clean and reassemble.
- Add the AUDIO TECHNICA LH13/OCC as a replacement headshell
- Add the AUDIO TECHNICA AT 440MLa cartridge
- Add a set of AUDIO TECHNICA AT-605 feet (Pics to follow)

Was listening to Daft Punk's Random Access Memories last night, and it sounded fantastic. I really am chuffed with the deck.

[RochaCullen]

I'll post some pics of the deck in some decent light soon enough.

[phonomac]

Hello Nathan,
Good to see that you've got the SL1400 Mk2 back in operation.

Here are a couple of tips that might help with the auto return:


with the power off, rotate the platter by hand 10 - 12 revolutions; this re-synchronises the mechanism when it has been disturbed.

if that doesn't fix it check that the solenoid actuated by the optical switch on the arm is achieving full travel, otherwise the return linkage won't engage with the drive gear.



Glad to hear that you are enjoying the sound of an SL1400 Mk2!

regards

Angus

[RochaCullen]

Hello Nathan,
Good to see that you've got the SL1400 Mk2 back in operation.

Here are a couple of tips that might help with the auto return:


with the power off, rotate the platter by hand 10 - 12 revolutions; this re-synchronises the mechanism when it has been disturbed.

if that doesn't fix it check that the solenoid actuated by the optical switch on the arm is achieving full travel, otherwise the return linkage won't engage with the drive gear.



Glad to hear that you are enjoying the sound of an SL1400 Mk2!

regards

Angus

Thanks Angus,

I tried what you mentioned, but I think that part of the mechanism is fine. The arm does return at the end of a record.

Really the problem is when the arm is being returned it is not lifted clearly. While the cueing mech works it may present too much of a load to lift in time. The cueing is a little stiff. I lubricated it as you directed, but perhaps I was not as accurate as I might have been.

Nathan

[RochaCullen]

So I've been meaning to do this for a while, that is, publish some more pics of this great deck:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/SL1400/1400_Start.jpg

It does sound more refined than my stock sl1210, which makes me want to hurry up and start tweaking that other techy.

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/SL1400/1400_Side.jpg

I managed to get my hands on some lovely Audio Technica feet for the TT. I doubt they are in the league of the isonoes but they certainly put a bit of distance between the deck and the granite below it.

I'd be very interested to hear if isonoe can provide different thread sizes to that stock one issued to fit the sl1210.

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/SL1400/1400_Feet-1.jpg

A closer look at the feet.

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/SL1400/1400_Speed.jpg

I think the digital display looks really cool :)

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/SL1400/1400_Arm.jpg

The arm is a joy to cue. And even though the auto return does not function as it should, you can turn it off and you still retain the auto stop of the platter when you return the arm to rest.

[Macca]

Great looking deck you've got there. Red LED is the best kind. Did these come out after the SL1200?

[synsei]

T'is a thing of beauty Nathan, good job sir. Looks mean and moody sitting on those AT feet, they really suit the deck ;)

[RochaCullen]

Great looking deck you've got there. Red LED is the best kind. Did these come out after the SL1200?

I think they came out at the same time, that is the SL1200, SL1300, SL1400 and SL1500. thevintageknob refers to the SL1300, SL1400 and SL1500 as side versions of the SL1200, each of which varied in the level of automation, i.e., not at all, semi, and fully automatic.

[RochaCullen]

T'is a thing of beauty Nathan, good job sir. Looks mean and moody sitting on those AT feet, they really suit the deck ;)

I'm delighted with the feet, they really do suit the deck.

[c421c]

I have been watching this thread for a while as I am the original owner of a Technics SL-1400 MK 2. The cue cam broke on me in the early 1980's and it was repaired with a new part back then. Needless to say the part is broken again and the cueing mechanism does not work. I was going to repair the part as was shown on this thread. However I contacted a fellow in Texas who repairs Technics turntables. He told me he is getting the part manufactured with 3D printing and using a steel bushing inside. He said the ones he's done have held out for a year so far with no problems. He said he'll do the whole job for $160.

[WOStantonCS100]

I have been watching this thread for a while as I am the original owner of a Technics SL-1400 MK 2. The cue cam broke on me in the early 1980's and it was repaired with a new part back then. Needless to say the part is broken again and the cueing mechanism does not work. I was going to repair the part as was shown on this thread. However I contacted a fellow in Texas who repairs Technics turntables. He told me he is getting the part manufactured with 3D printing and using a steel bushing inside. He said the ones he's done have held out for a year so far with no problems. He said he'll do the whole job for $160.

Are you allowed to divulge the source?

[c421c]

Absolutely! I'm not sure if I am allowed to post links on this forum but it is Turntabletech DOT COM. (Revolution Audio) The fellow's name is Jay.

My turntable is boxed and ready to ship to him. It will be going out tomorrow. I can't wait to see how this works out. I'll keep you posted.

Michael

[RochaCullen]

See if you can get Jay to post a picture of the cam when it is completed. All the best with this.

Unfortunately I've just sold my SL1400. I have an SL1210 too and given I am not really able to listen to either at the minute (a 2 year old and 3.5 year old are dominating what media formats get used in this house currently), I decided to upgrade my headphone rig and so sold off the SL1400. It really does sound way better than the stock SL1210, in my opinion anyway.

[c421c]

Had the turntable back for a while now. Have been too busy to post but it works fine. Sorry no photos of the 3D printed cam arm.

[DSJR]

Glad this sad tale has a very happy ending - well done Angus :) Still a gorgeous looking and performing range of decks in my opinion.

As far as the auto return is concerned, I suspect a damn good cleaning and re-assembly DRY of the trip parts would cure any ills. This era and the previous SL1300/1310 had very gentle auto mechanisms that were as good as a Dual, if not as elegant in execution. The SL1300, despite the massy tonearm, could happily track a Shure v15 III at 1g with full auto use, although later experience of this generation of tonearm design suggests the bias correction is way out and excessive up to 1.5g or so.

[vicdiaz]

Resurrecting this thread. While disassembling the tonearm assembly a small spring and a pin fell on my table and I cannot figure out where do they go and the service manual does not show them in the tonearm diagram. Ideas?

[LBK2]

The small spring and pin should go into the hole underneath the tone arm height adjustment column.

As for a replacement cueing arm, search for Shapeways Technics Cueing Cam. Two versions made so check the pivot ring that the arm slides onto.