View Full Version : Michell Orbe - New arm or new phono stage (or....)?
Hello all
Having just sold my Technoarm, I'm thinking hard about where to go next with my Orbe. I have an Incognito rewired RB300 to replace it for the time being (the arm needs a little tlc, but is basically fine).
Long term, the Orbe will remain a constant - can't see myself changing it. The decision I need to make is whether to spend a bit of cash on the RB300 (at say, Audio Origami) to bring out its best or think about getting another arm altogether.
Cartridge is a Denon 103 (minus body - watch out for those tiny wires!). I'm using a Quad 77 setup. The phono stage in the 77 preamp is highly configurable and really surprisingly good.
Budget is about £750 (give or take).
My thoughts so far:
Send the arm to AO for the full treatment (minus the rewire, but including a nice bling plated finish - yum!), then spend the rest of the budget on a used phono stage. Instinctively, this seems a very sensible route.
Alternatively, blow the lot on another arm.
What do you think?
Grateful for your suggestions.
Cheers
Martin
hifi_dave
12-06-2013, 11:11
To my mind, the Tecno Arm is a better arm than an Incognito re-wired RB300, so it doesn't make sense to replace it with the RB300.
I would suggest you look for something good and s/hand, like an SME, because you are unlikely to find a better new arm than the Tecno for £750.
hifi dave stole the words from out of my mouth... SME's from the 309 upwards do seem to sing very well on Michel Gyro and orbe decks in the same way the Rega based Techno Arm did.
As for souping up the RB300, remember please that proper tools ought to be used for pre-loading and torquing up the vertical bearing assembly and VERY few people have the training, let alone the tools or experience, to do the job properly. Just being able to feed through a fresh set of wires without dislodging internal grommets etc. is one thing, but being able to totally strip the arm and re-assemble to Rega's original specification - or better - is another thing entirely. Just saying like, and no disrespect to Johnnie, who may well have the stuff and training necessary to do it properly for all I know :)
hifi_dave
12-06-2013, 12:02
Michell get the Tecno Arm in bits. They do the drilling, blasting, filling and re-wiring, then they go back to Rega for assembly and testing. The result is an arm which Rega endorse, with Michell mods. To my knowledge, no one else does that.
Thank you both. The Techno was sold to finance some new speakers, with the RB300 as a temporary replacement while I ponder the options and generate more funds. Might be a while before I am ready to jump.
Would a 309 be much of a step up, or should I aim higher? Any other alternatives to consider?
Cheers
Martin
Just to add that I only know Johnnie's work by reputation - and quite a reputation that seems to be....
Martin
I'll chip in, IME the 103 is not a good match for the RB250/300 of arms and also the SME309 (although its better).
If you are going to stay with the RB300 then I would seriously look at changing the cart and phono stage. If you want to keep the 103 then something like a Jelco arm would get more out of it...my 2p worth.
Arkless Electronics
18-06-2013, 14:29
If you are interested in a new phono stage then this is a no brainer: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=126877
Yes blatant plugging!
Audio Al
18-06-2013, 14:33
If you are interested in a new phono stage then this is a no brainer: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=126877
Yes blatant plugging!
Jez , Is my 640p completed yet ?
will send a PM
Cheers
Johnnie7
18-06-2013, 14:39
hifi dave stole the words from out of my mouth... SME's from the 309 upwards do seem to sing very well on Michel Gyro and orbe decks in the same way the Rega based Techno Arm did.
As for souping up the RB300, remember please that proper tools ought to be used for pre-loading and torquing up the vertical bearing assembly and VERY few people have the training, let alone the tools or experience, to do the job properly. Just being able to feed through a fresh set of wires without dislodging internal grommets etc. is one thing, but being able to totally strip the arm and re-assemble to Rega's original specification - or better - is another thing entirely. Just saying like, and no disrespect to Johnnie, who may well have the stuff and training necessary to do it properly for all I know :)
Sorry to hear you dont think i have the skills to rebuild a rega arm :( ...or the tools to set the bearings up
and the fact i offer high spec bearing upgrades for the arm,... and i even build my own RB7 version of the rega arm that got a 5 start review in hifi choice few months ago
ill need to get back to bearing school :)
I'll chip in, IME the 103 is not a good match for the RB250/300 of arms and also the SME309 (although its better).
If you are going to stay with the RB300 then I would seriously look at changing the cart and phono stage. If you want to keep the 103 then something like a Jelco arm would get more out of it...my 2p worth.
Plumbed ( very badly) my Denon DL103 onto my SME V yesterday and it sounded bloody good if you ask me, this was on my Techie mind, so l am going to get an old pro to set it up properly, but l was surprised how good it sounded.
Sorry to hear you dont think i have the skills to rebuild a rega arm :( ...or the tools to set the bearings up
and the fact i offer high spec bearing upgrades for the arm,... and i even build my own RB7 version of the rega arm that got a 5 start review in hifi choice few months ago
ill need to get back to bearing school :)
No Johnnie, all you need to do is show that Rega endorse your work, as they do Moth Marketing (Mike Harris showed me the Rega tooling/jigs he has that I recognised from a factory trip). It's just that I've seen and 'felt' how Rega adjust the bearing tolerances on the 300 upwards by hand and a tiny difference is readily felt, that's all. Anyway, upgraded bearings really means they'll spin faster at very high speeds I believe, so in a tonearm, where they're barely moving at all could well be willy waving for all I know - mine's harder than yours :eyebrows: :)
I must admit the fine polished finish of some uprated RB arms is a joy to behold and I'm sure the one-piece wiring approach is a good one where expensive fancy cartridges are concerned, but Rega really aren't numpties at this, honest guv'nor :)
If you are interested in a new phono stage then this is a no brainer: http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=126877
Yes blatant plugging!
Nowt wrong with a blatant plug every now and again. I'll have a look at that link.
BTW, it seems you are just down the road from me (I'm in Longframlington). Small world!
Cheers
Martin
Audio Al
18-06-2013, 18:33
Plumbed ( very badly) my Denon DL103 onto my SME V yesterday and it sounded bloody good if you ask me, this was on my Techie mind, so l am going to get an old pro to set it up properly, but l was surprised how good it sounded.
:eyebrows:
I didn't ask you :ner:
Sorry to hear you dont think i have the skills to rebuild a rega arm :( ...or the tools to set the bearings up
and the fact i offer high spec bearing upgrades for the arm,... and i even build my own RB7 version of the rega arm that got a 5 start review in hifi choice few months ago
ill need to get back to bearing school :)
Don't worry Johnnie - the Technoarm I was talking about was rewired by you at some point (I didn't mention that as I haven't been able to compare your work to a standard Technoarm). I did think it a very neat job though.
I know someone who has one of your 'superarms' - haven't heard it myself, but he reckons it's the dog's danglies.
On the strength of the above (and at the risk of making this seem like pantomime) - I think your reputation is enough to inspire confidence.
And when all else fails, I find Messrs Cabernet and Sauvignon inspiration enough.
Cheers!
Martin
Johnnie7
18-06-2013, 19:25
No Johnnie, all you need to do is show that Rega endorse your work, :)
no m8...your wrong
i dont need do that at all (just to make ONE GUY happy)
the fact that i manufacture two types of tone arm myself (and have similar dial gauges and tools that rega normally use)
and the fact that i also already assemble and wire a well known British manufactures modified rega based arms
and the fact that i am in the process of quoting for a arm design for a very well know other manufacturers is good nuff for me and for them,.. and for the over 2000 customers that are totally delighted with my work :)
and to come back to your original point----- EVEN with regas tools,... both rega and moth still let a percentage out the factory with over tight or over loose adjusted bearings
proving its not just the tools that are important.... its the guy thats doing the job is more important
One happy guy, reporting in!
:)
Mucho pleased with my J7 fettled RB250, sounds amazing! ATM i have two other std Rega's and one Origin Live Silver MK II for comparison, and the last one to to leave my premises will deffo be the Audio Origami RB-250.
Arkless Electronics
19-06-2013, 16:18
Nowt wrong with a blatant plug every now and again. I'll have a look at that link.
BTW, it seems you are just down the road from me (I'm in Longframlington). Small world!
Cheers
Martin
Near Rothbury eh.... sometimes get up that way on the motorbike. May be looking for Guinea pigs to try new amp in the future if you are interested but you would have to do the transporting as no car.
Near Rothbury eh.... sometimes get up that way on the motorbike. May be looking for Guinea pigs to try new amp in the future if you are interested but you would have to do the transporting as no car.
Cool - if you're ever on the A697, you're welcome to pop in for a coffee.
Would love to try your new amp - guinea pig number 303 reporting for duty. Happy to collect and return it.
I'll drop you a pm later.
Cheers
Martin
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