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sugdenman
25-02-2008, 11:37
Last night whilst playing my beloved quad 67 cd, the disctray started to stick. I opened the player to find the disctray mechanism cogs had started to disintergrate.This,to whom know about these things is apparently known as
Cog rot. Does anyone know where I can get replacements from ? just missed one on ebay..
Tom B.

Filterlab
25-02-2008, 12:00
I love the 67, very funky and nice sound.

You could try popping to a model shop and grabbing a bag of assorted cogs, failing that you may find a dead 67 CD somewhere.

It uses the philips CDM9/44 transport of which there were thousands made so it may be a case of finding a dead player that utilises that transport and doing a bit of surgery. :)

Mr Ed
25-02-2008, 17:36
I've seen this problem on Arcam Alpha 5s, which uses the same mech. Arcam have spare cogs for about a tenner and it's a simple job to fit.

Ed.

Vinyl Grinder
25-02-2008, 17:58
Quads are definatly Philips based machines..Micromega 'Stage' player were terrible for sticking..You don't get any of this with Sony mechs.

Ashley James
25-02-2008, 22:12
It's definitely Philips and the mech was discontinued in the nineties, I doubt you'll find one but you can open and close the door manually if you remove the blue gear.

We're advising people not to buy CD players any more, mechs are very difficult to find for the latest models never mind old ones, failure is unpredictable and mechs are no longer made.

Get an iPod touch because it'll sound better, it's terrific fun to own and it'll give you time to decide what to do next.

Ashley

Marco
25-02-2008, 22:26
We're advising people not to buy CD players any more, mechs are very difficult to find for the latest models never mind old ones, failure is unpredictable and mechs are no longer made.

Get an iPod touch because it'll sound better...


{Cough splutter}

Some slightly absolutist views there, Ash!

Sorry I didn't get a chance to pop by your demo at Bristol, btw. I had a bit of a 'mare' at the weekend with one thing and another - don't ask! Hope the show was a success for you. Steve has told me some good things.

Marco.

Nick
25-02-2008, 23:18
We're advising people not to buy CD players any more, mechs are very difficult to find for the latest models never mind old ones, failure is unpredictable and mechs are no longer made.

Get an iPod touch because it'll sound better, it's terrific fun to own and it'll give you time to decide what to do next.

Ashley

I just don't know what to say !! :scratch:

Ashley James
26-02-2008, 19:27
I realise that it's a controversial statement to fanatics like you lot but a Shuffle costs £32 and sounds as good as the best CD players, so it'd be worth trying and reporting back to the Forum. I've got one and an older iPod too, I use an Apple TV as my source in the TV room and an Airport Express in the sitting room that I stream to from my Macbook Pro.

I have the advantage over you lot of having heard and compared manufacturers dem DAC boards, so know how good CD can sound. The CD67 was a good player, there are worse now, but a Shuffle will be better. Trust me, computers (Apple ones) are the future of hi fi and it'll be better for it.
Ashley

Filterlab
26-02-2008, 19:47
Trust me, computers (Apple ones) are the future of hi fi and it'll be better for it.
Ashley

You won't find me disagreeing with Ashley here, my Apple running complete unencoded files into a proper DAC completely beats any CD player I've owned, and many that I haven't.

Ashley James
26-02-2008, 19:52
I've just posted a synopsis of the situation on the Bristol Show thread, which will probably start a war. AVI is declaring war on Hi End with a couple of small monitors and a Sub. They are not a "Mug's Eyeful" but they are David's to traditional Goliaths and extremely unpopular with "separatists" who cannot believe they deliver.

Ashley

Filterlab
26-02-2008, 20:01
They will one day, this all happened in the early 80s with CD, and there's been one or two CD players sold since then. :) Computer based audio is the future, most have already accepted it, now the audiophiles have to come round. :)

Mike Reed
26-02-2008, 20:39
Well, I'm baffled!. Claims are being made for computers as 'the future of hifi' (or words to that effect).

I suppose one will need speakers (or cans).
I suppose one will need good amplification.
I suppose some form of pre-amp will be required.
How will one play one's L.P. / CD collection? (Or obtain radio broadcasts; or listen to decent TV sound; or ditto with videos or w.h.y?)

How does one cope with control when the computer is in a different room, on a different floor?

Having still not come to terms with CD presentation/sound quality vis a vis vinyl, I really cannot conceive the idea that the computer will ever be a replacement for an audio set-up. Ancillary to, maybe. Replacement? NEVER

Filterlab
26-02-2008, 20:46
I suppose one will need speakers (or cans).

Yes, but one needs those whatever the source is.

I suppose one will need good amplification.

Yes, but one needs those whatever the source is.

I suppose some form of pre-amp will be required.

Yes, but one needs those whatever the source is.

How will one play one's L.P. / CD collection? (Or obtain radio broadcasts; or listen to decent TV sound; or ditto with videos or w.h.y?)

LP: Use a turntable. CD: Import the disc to a computer. Radio: Use a tuner. TV: Use a TV. Video, that died ten years ago so DVD: Use a DVD player.

How does one cope with control when the computer is in a different room, on a different floor?

Move it, they are portable.

Having still not come to terms with CD presentation/sound quality vis a vis vinyl, I really cannot conceive the idea that the computer will ever be a replacement for an audio set-up. Ancillary to, maybe. Replacement? NEVER

Never said replacement, said "future". You may wish to listen to a proper lossless set-up before eschewing it though, it's VERY different to a CD player despite the source being an imported CD. You're right, it is another source, but one that firmly destroys CD and equals vinyl albeit in a different way. :)

shane
26-02-2008, 20:46
now the audiophiles have to come round. :)

Why?

Filterlab
26-02-2008, 20:49
Why?

Eh? To stop the format being needlessly bashed by those who are unwilling to try it. Whether they choose to use it or not is neither here nor there, however it cannot be ignored. The same happened with CDs and they were accepted as an audiophile format, so why not computer?

Nobody is forcing audiophiles to choose, but nobody is forcing them to ignore it either.

shane
26-02-2008, 21:01
CD was accepted because of massive marketing by one of the world's biggest and most powerful industries, not because it was better. Plenty of people are now happy to accept that trendy old vinyl is better in many ways than CD, but they wouldn't have dreamed of saying so in the eighties when the received wisdom was that vinyl was a dead duck. Here we are now saying that the whole lot will be replaced by computers, but it's no more true now than it was then.

My Squeezebox is a natty little gizmo and sounds a bit better than my old Arcam CD, but it's hardly groundbreaking, and my wife won't use it because she can't be bothered to wade through the menu structure searching a datatbase of 10,000 songs just to find James Blunt, so it doesn't get the vote from the non-audiofile, and I still think my vinyl sounds better.

Filterlab
26-02-2008, 21:09
...Here we are now saying that the whole lot will be replaced by computers, but it's no more true now than it was then...

But nobody is saying that, what is being said is that computer based audio is a legitimate audiophile source if it's done properly. Vinyl will never be replaced (and I agree it sounds wonderful!) but CDs as a playback format may be replaced, but as a data carrier CDs are required to import to a computer.

I don't think there will ever be a definitive audio source that caters for everyone, but there is another serious contender now, one that's likely to topple CD and live alongside vinyl.

I agree with you on the Squeezebox, interesting but hardly audiophile. :)

Ashley James
26-02-2008, 21:41
I'm sure the whole lot will be replaced by computers and self contained hi fi systems likes ours and fairly quickly too. It's happening now.

If you buy a Macbook and plug your LP12 straight into the mike input, having first downloaded Audio Companion, you can apply the RIAA curve, record the music, logging each track separately, you can reduce clicks, pops and surface noise and then store it in iTunes where the tracks can be labelled, you can evenadd the album artwork and play everything from a handset in either iTunes with Cover Flow or Front Row. Your precious record suffers no further wear and you could even sell it if you aren't sentimental.

And you have 10,000 radio stations, online record stores that will play 30 second samples, you can soon rent movies and buy TV programs and you can stream to up to five rooms and control remotely with an iPod Touch.

People are already doing it at an accelerating rate.

Ashley

shane
26-02-2008, 21:41
Yes, computer audio is a legitimate source, and potentially a very good one, but it's just another source for the audiophile to choose from; that doesn't make it "the future". For the audiophile, the future will be a choice from vinyl, computer audio, FM, DAB (if they ever get it right) or a mixture of any or all, which is pretty much what we have now anyway.
For the mass market, the under 30s don't tend to sit down and listen to music, having become used to spending half their lives with headphones plugged into their MP3 players and the other half in front of the telly or games console, so the future for them is going to be a dock on their home cinema system. I go into a lot of homes in my job, and I see lots of flat-screen tellys with cheap crappy dolby 5.1 systems scattered around the room, and occasionally an old stack system gathering dust in the corner. For the mass market, audio sytems of any sort, computer based or otherwise, are a thing of the past.
I can't quite see who product like the ADM9 is aimed at. They're too expensive for most people who don't care about sound, but too inflexible to cater for the many and varied tastes of the audiophile market.

Mike Reed
26-02-2008, 21:42
I've never had so many questions answered so affirmatively, Rob.

I was beginning to get the impression that computer audio was the be all and end all from sundry postings by one Ashley. Nice to know it's only an alternative source!

Move the computer to the listening room? Flies in the face of all received hifi wisdom, despite separate mains supply. The office is the place, surely!

'Sound quality equal to vinyl but different?' A very Orwellian statement, if I may say so. My CDP is different. And equal? I think not. Just different, but not as satisfying.

Interesting comment by a subsequent poster about his wife wading through menus etc. trying to find specific music. I thought CD spines were bad enough!

Filterlab
26-02-2008, 21:44
Equal qualitatively, but a different presentation. :)

Filterlab
26-02-2008, 21:47
Oh, and I love Orwell's work. :)

Marco
26-02-2008, 22:12
Ash - interesting post. Let's break it down a bit...


I realise that it's a controversial statement to fanatics like you lot


LOL. Fanatic? I guess that I could be described as such by 'normal' people who buy all-in-one systems from Dixons, and the like, but not by the standards set here and on other specialist audio forums populated by similar enthusiasts, and also most importantly by many of my friends in real life. I see myself as an 'enthusiast' (one with purist audio principles) rather than a "fanatic".

However, that doesn't mean I don't rate what new technology such as computer audio can do. I've heard some excellent set-ups and fully intend to integrate computer audio into my system in the very near future, probably with the purchase of a media player, as I want to be able to stream music from the internet via my laptop and also watch movies on DVD in conjunction with a projector/screen set-up. But I will still keep my very nice Sony CD player - mainly because it's a classic and CD players are no longer made like it, but also because it sounds bloody amazing! :)


but a Shuffle costs £32 and sounds as good as the best CD players


Depends what you mean by "best" CD players. It would frankly be a joke comparing it to my modified Sony or other players of that ilk. It might be as good as some of the mass-market machines up to £1k, though.


I have the advantage over you lot


You lot? I'll "you lot" you! :lolsign:


The CD67 was a good player, there are worse now, but a Shuffle will be better. Trust me, computers (Apple ones) are the future of hi fi and it'll be better for it.


What was the CD67 - an AVI machine? I've not heard it, so can't comment.

I don't doubt you're right about the future of hi-fi and the role of computers within it, as far as the mass-market is concerned and also a significant percentage of audiophiles looking for fantastic sound quality and convenience, too (count me in!)

However there will always be a specialist market for enthusiast products, such as valve amplifiers and vinyl, which is something as an enthusiast and purist I will always embrace together with the undoubted benefits of the computer route.

I can say without a shadow of a doubt, though, that the best sound I've ever heard in my system is with top-notch vinyl pressings through my turntable and a really good valve amp. As such, I am looking into the valve power amp situation to find a suitable partner for my Croft valve preamp, which will be hand-built to my specifications. There's no doubt in my mind that embracing both the old and the new in a system is the key to musical nirvana. Absolutist approaches in one or the other create compromises that I personally could not live with.

Marco.

Filterlab
27-02-2008, 08:56
What was the CD67 - an AVI machine? I've not heard it, so can't comment...

I think he means the Quad CD67 which is the subject of this thread (which has gone a long way off topic). :)

Marco
27-02-2008, 09:36
Ah yes, silly me, I forgot all about the original thread topic, such was the entertainment value of the ensuing contretempts!

If the CD67 is that little Quad CDP that costs about £1k, I've heard it before. It's ok, but hardly state-of-the art.

I get the feeling that the ADM9 set-up Ashley is promoting is not really aimed at the most discerning listeners or real enthusiasts looking for the ultimate in performance. I would only consider it for a second system, perhaps in a bedroom or dining room.

That's not to denigrate AVI's product in any way but it would certainly not replace what I'm used to listening to. These people that Ashley is referring to who have given up £40k systems to buy an ADM9 set-up - all I can say is that those systems must have been badly put together and full of underperforming components (or maybe they just wanted to downsize) because as good as the ADM9 computer set-up is at its price point it would not outperform any £40k 'conventional' system that I or anyone else with similar audio experience put together..!

Marco.

Filterlab
27-02-2008, 09:48
Ah yes, silly me, I forgot all about the original thread topic, such was the entertainment value of the ensuing contretempts!

Yes, I feel we've strayed somewhat from the original topic. :)

Marco
27-02-2008, 10:15
Indeed, but sometimes a bit of thread drift doesn't do any harm! ;)

Marco.

Filterlab
27-02-2008, 10:16
Very true my friend, gets folk talking anyway. :)

Nick
27-02-2008, 11:29
I realise that it's a controversial statement to fanatics like you lot but a Shuffle costs £32 and sounds as good as the best CD players, so it'd be worth trying and reporting back to the Forum. I've got one and an older iPod too, I use an Apple TV as my source in the TV room and an Airport Express in the sitting room that I stream to from my Macbook Pro.

I have the advantage over you lot of having heard and compared manufacturers dem DAC boards, so know how good CD can sound. The CD67 was a good player, there are worse now, but a Shuffle will be better. Trust me, computers (Apple ones) are the future of hi fi and it'll be better for it.
Ashley

Pound for pound the iPod is undoubtedly a fine value. Comparing it to the world's best CD players is frankly extending the realms of believability a little IMO. Have you compared for instance the Shuffle to a Wadia 861 ??

I will nail my colours to the mast and state I'm an Apple user and fan myself. But let's face it Apple aren't going to be the future of computers let alone hi-fi for quite a while.

At this point I'm more than happy to sit back and see how things pan out in this arena. I feel however that where ever it goes we will still end up with two different streams and solutions for music replay. On the one hand the "average" user who will still trot into Dixons for the latest one box solution (not an Apple in most cases I would dare to venture) and the audio guys who, I feel, will still strive for the best sound via mix and match systems.

I'm a relative newcomer to this forum but I do detect a little bit of self hype in some of your replys. In this particular case totally straying from the original and very specific question in order to preach the "new way" which coincidentally is the way your company is heading. I don't find that kind of thing that cool personally.

Marco
27-02-2008, 12:41
If the CD67 is that little Quad CDP that costs about £1k, I've heard it before.


Doing some research, I see that it's not. The CD67 is a classic and looks pretty decent, actually. I was referring to the Quad 99 CDP-2, which is good but nothing special.

Marco.

Filterlab
27-02-2008, 14:04
Yeah, the 67 was a decent player, not only that it looks REALLY funky! I remember WHF saying at the time about the lack of buttons on the control panel and what would happen if the remote was lost, in retrospect it was a daft comment as virtually all electronics now have no buttons on them.

http://www.geocities.com/shianjer/Quad_67CD.jpg

Ashley James
27-02-2008, 15:11
Marco - I have to say that you've grossly underestimated the performance of the ADM9s.

Do not forget the cost of equipment they improve on.

An AVI CD player (same DAC) £1499, Preamp £1399 (+£100 for a PHONO stage) V2 Power Amp 200WPC up to 50 Amps £1649, and Duos £1299. And our stuff has much less distortion than average. On the What hi fi forum a chap has sold £6.5K's worth of Cyrus to buy them and reports an improvement - the most expensive system so far has been £17,500!!! And he still thought they were better!

They even challenge many three way designs because they have more intrusive crossover/phase issues.

The 10" Sub weighs 40 kilos and is immensely powerful and controlled too.

This is why people are selling such expensive separates to buy them and reporting such big improvements. And it's also why the debates have been so acrimonious on so many forums now.

A PS3 with ADM9's and a Sub is unbelievably hard to beat, hence their success.

Apple is now the second biggest music retailer in the States too.

Filterlab
27-02-2008, 15:24
The V2 Power amp is one of three amplifiers on my 'upgrade and leave it there' list. I heard the integrated and was staggered so the power amp can only fair better. :)

Marco
27-02-2008, 17:33
Marco - I have to say that you've grossly underestimated the performance of the ADM9s.


Perhaps, Ashley - I'll reserve judgement until I've heard them myself. In the meantime I'm only basing my opinion on common sense and the ears of people I trust who were in your room.

You're not seriously suggesting though that they would outperform my Spendor SP100s and ECS 200W monoblocks? That's a total of £11,000, incidentally, and if you want to bring CDPs and preamps into the equation that's another £11,500, so a total of £22,500, if we're getting all excited by price tags ;)

Marco.

Filterlab
27-02-2008, 17:43
...so a total of £22,500 ;)


Show off. :lol:

Marco
27-02-2008, 17:50
Hehehe...

It was Ashley who appeared to have a 'fetish' for price tags!

Marco.

Ashley James
27-02-2008, 18:11
Marco I suspect that if you heard them in good domestic surroundings, you'd have a hell of shock. And I rate your loudspeakers higher than most!

Ash

Marco
27-02-2008, 18:13
I don't have a problem with that assertion - whether it would be the case in reality remains to be seen! :)

Marco.

Vinyl Grinder
28-02-2008, 14:35
ECS 200W monoblocks?

;)

Marco
28-02-2008, 16:25
Tee hee... And on that note I've just taken delivery of the ultimate Chinese takeaway! ;)

I'm off for a play...

Much later,
Marco.

shane
28-02-2008, 19:35
Marco I suspect that if you heard them in good domestic surroundings, you'd have a hell of shock. And I rate your loudspeakers higher than most!

Ash

Why not lend him a pair to find out?

sugdenman
09-03-2008, 12:54
Coming back to the original subject "Quad cog rot" I have hunted high and low for one of these cogs ( arcam, Quad,various componant companies .)only to be told its obsolete,cant get them any more..Well I found one ...in Tiewan for the princely sum of $20 -£ 10...Now the fun and games start...fitting the thing in the cd player. Any advice chaps ????.

Mike Reed
10-03-2008, 21:54
TAIWAN is not known for ties! I've been there; my wife was born and raised there.

Beautiful island (=Formosa (Portuguese))

Ten percent of the world's chips (!!) were made there a few years ago.

TAIWANESE own/run a great many of the successful companies in China.

Its flora and fauna are magnificent, as are its many typhoons (hurricanes) and earthquakes.

It has the tallest building in the world. Well, probably did yesterday, as taller ones seem to be erected daily.

It has (probably) the newest and most sophisticated underground/over-street train systems which is, I believe, fully automated, extensive, and VERY CHEAP.

Population is a little over 2 million; languages are Taiwanese, Mandarin and Haka and the island is a little bigger than Ireland.

'Made in Taiwan' (the Republic of China) has now given over to 'Made in China' (the People's Republic of China)

sugdenman
11-03-2008, 12:24
Sorry Mike for the spelling mistake,I tend to spell things wrong when excited about somethng.Thanks for the info on Taiwan, Didnt they break away from China a few years ago ?? I seem to remember China laying siege and surrounding them with battleships.

Mike Reed
11-03-2008, 17:49
Conversely, I get excited about things when people make mistakes! (Sorry, it's my teaching past; gets to you!)

Seriously, though, it is a fascinating place which is (well) off the tourist trail. One half is flat and industrialised, t'other is mountains and rainforest.

Cash-my-cheque (Chiang Kai Chek) fled from Mao's army to Taiwan in 1949 and set up his 'Republic of China '. The incident you refer to (one of many) was a few years ago when China pointed all its missiles etc. at Taiwan because it objected to the first democracy elections. The good old U.S. of A. sent its battlefleet to the straits to 'influence' China. Then it died down, but the Taiwanese have been living with this sword-brandishing for yonks, and don't bat an eyelid. Likewise earthquakes, which are roughly on a par with militant China as far as annoyances go.

Good luck with you 'made in Taiwan' part.

Ashley James
16-03-2008, 13:50
They aren't difficult to fit but usually the laser fails ten minutes after you've done it. Or that's what happened to us whenever we fixed one!

I visited Taipei several times in the early nineties and remembering hearing ATC100's driven by adapted telephone amplifiers, the ones with 300Bs in them. The Americans installed a telephone system for them during the occupation and used transformer coupled, Tube Amplifiers with a massive 20kHz bandwidth to relay the signals.

In the twenties, when they were trying to send telephone speech across the States they built amps with a 3.5kHz bandwidth and put them every few miles to boosy the signal, by the time they reached the other side, the sound was recognisable as a human voice, but unintelligible because of the phase effects of adding loads of 3.5kHz filters together. Opening the bandwidth to 20kHz cured the problem and when the technology advanced, redundant telephone amplifiers were pressed into service for hi fi.

Yomanze
26-04-2008, 22:48
They will one day, this all happened in the early 80s with CD, and there's been one or two CD players sold since then. :) Computer based audio is the future, most have already accepted it, now the audiophiles have to come round. :)

Vinyl is the future :P

WikiBoy
26-04-2008, 23:46
Conversely, I get excited about things when people make mistakes! (Sorry, it's my teaching past; gets to you!)

Seriously, though, it is a fascinating place which is (well) off the tourist trail. One half is flat and industrialised, t'other is mountains and rainforest.

Cash-my-cheque (Chiang Kai Chek) fled from Mao's army to Taiwan in 1949 and set up his 'Republic of China '. The incident you refer to (one of many) was a few years ago when China pointed all its missiles etc. at Taiwan because it objected to the first democracy elections. The good old U.S. of A. sent its battlefleet to the straits to 'influence' China. Then it died down, but the Taiwanese have been living with this sword-brandishing for yonks, and don't bat an eyelid. Likewise earthquakes, which are roughly on a par with militant China as far as annoyances go.

Good luck with you 'made in Taiwan' part.

Been there many times in the '80s and '90s. Yeah, parts are beautiful but some parts are rough Kaohsiung (sp) for example. Yushan national park and the mountain Oolong tea plantations are beautifull. Learned the Taiwanese tea ceremony and brought all the bits back with me, no where near as complicated as the Japanese way, but if you want good Oolong that is where to get it and that is how to make it.

My favorite places are the tea houses up in the hills north of Taipei, so contemplative and peacefull.

Lots of Japanese influence, shoes off for example. Taiwanese, well definitely the most friendly group of Chinese going, especially compared with Cantonese which we see mostly in the UK who are largely rude and unsophisticated. The KMT mainland lot still have lots Shanghai and Beijing character but the locals are gems. There was still a lot of antipathy between them and the KMT lot back in the 90s.