View Full Version : Audiophilia, A Selfish Hobby - Discuss.
Hi Guys,
I suspect that the forum members are mainly guys because all the one's I have been in contact with have either male christian names or 'male sounding' nom de plumes. I wonder if this is because it is difficult to share the hobby at the levels we all strive for. In the few days that I have been a member here I have learned a lot about speaker placement (perhaps a fraction of 1% of what there is to know but increasing my previous knowledge base by an astronomical number). The little that I have learned tells me that there is really only 1 place in any given (normal) listening room where one pair of ears receive the highest possible sound quality. This being the case, sharing this experience with another pair of ears at the same time is not physically possible - to share you have to compromise, which goes contrary to everything that we are striving (and spending shedloads) to achieve.
OR am I misundestanding the situation (again !!) If so, feel very free to enlighten me. Alternatively, if I am correct, I would be interested in other members thoughts on the subject.
Look forward to hearing from you,
Dave.
Spectral Morn
22-04-2009, 15:12
Hi Dave
Firstly I must say that I am really enjoying your participation on the forum. Sadly few woman are into audio the way men seem to be. A few do exist on the forums (apparently but i am not sure about that :confused:) but are pretty rare. However it might be a mistake to assume that male or female sounding nick names mean anything....I could be a women ;)........I am not though.
Women enjoy music/audio gear but tend to be less geeky about it as men tend to be....differing priorities I guess maybe if we have any female members they might like to comment on this...I would be interested. In my time in the audio trade I only had two female customers who approached it like men. I sold gear to women but it was only a means to and end for them and they rarely came back or upgraded, as they were happy with what they had got.
Back to the main point....it will depend on the dispersion factor of the speakers as to it being narrow or wide. My Anthony Gallo's are wide so more than one person could sit in the hot seat/listening window. Some speakers have a very narrow listening window (the head in vice type) move your head slightly to the side and the imaging suffers. However the presence of someone sitting beside you will mean the sound will be affected by there presence on that side. This may be an issue or not...for you.
There is also choice of music....my wife will come and sit with me sometimes on the floor just in front of me....this is nice but she doesn't do it very often. When she does she can hear and has correctly IMHO heard things I have heard, such as once the superiority of balanced connection over single ended in my system (XLR vs RCA). I will also ask her to sit and listen but she doesn't sit for long...I guess she just doesn't share my passion for music and its reproduction. Its just as well as I think I might be unhappy if I had to make an appointment to listen ;)
So is being an audiophile a selfish hobby in the way that two seat sports cars are to family use....I suppose the answer is yes.
My wife allows me to do what I want audio wise, so I am very blessed in that respect. I suppose some audiophiles might want their wives to be into it so they can justify what they spend on it ;) "I can hear that too so lets upgrade......." :lol: " Thank you my love ".
Regards D S D L
Firstly I must say that I am really enjoying your participation on the forum.
Me too :)
Not that the rest of our members aren't, but it's such a delight to meet someone who's polite and knows how to communicate properly, which sadly is a skill that's not so apparent these days in many walks of life.
Sadly few woman are into audio the way men seem to be. A few do exist on the forums (apparently but i am not sure about that ) but are pretty rare.
I can confirm that there are 15 registered female members here to my knowledge, although their visits are fleeting and infrequent, which unfortunately is par for the course.
However it might be a mistake to assume that male or female sounding nick names mean anything....I could be a women ........I am not though.
Well, you did sound like a bit of a girl on the phone - maybe that was because you were secretly parading around the house in your Easter bonnet and floral sun dress when your wife was out, or maybe it was just your Irish accent? :lol:
;)
I shall contribute to this thread more sensibly later!
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
22-04-2009, 16:30
Dave,
This is interesting! My wife loves music as much as I do, but in a different way - she is not obsessive! I must have music playing at all times unless I'm listening to Radio 4 (or watching TV) - even if it's through a low quality set up. She is happy enough without it if she's not with me, though sometimes she'll play it very loudly!! I get jealous, because I work away from home quite a bit at the moment, & when I'm away she has the big hi-fi (La Grand Wazoo(?)) & all the other kit that's scattered around the house & I have to make do with a much reduced alternative (Le Petit Wazoo(?)).
If we're listening to music seriously (& this is often), then we sit side by side - my speakers throw a huge soundstage & are not so critical as to listening position as some.
Our taste in music is almost identical & she had a respectable record collection when we got together. However, she doesn't search out music as much anymore. This, of course, must be a function of being married to a music obsessive with similar tastes - she doesn't need to!!
She is usually much more able to express differences to the system than me & often spots them first! When I buy a new piece of kit, we assess it & the alternatives together - always. She likes to shock unbelievers by telling them how we once compared the qualities of several different tonearm cables!
She also has no trouble spotting and describing the differences in sound exhibited by substituting the value or brand of a single resistor in our Bent Audio Mu step-up transformers!!
Apart from all that, she's my best mate - I'm pretty lucky really!
The Grand Wazoo
22-04-2009, 16:56
Careful what you say here, now - especially the Gents!!
...........Mike Parry might turn up & we could get into a 'God's Own Electronics' type discussion again.
Oh what joy! (I never did get my apology).
Beechwoods
22-04-2009, 17:10
An interesting idea... I have to say that I have a room dedicated to my kit... my Den, but that's less about wanting to lock myself away and more about the practicalities of space, and having one place in the whole house which doesn't need to be 'child friendly'. But to be honest Mrs B doesn't share the passion I have for hi-fi and reel to reels, but then I don't have the passion she does for Bretby vases! It's nice to have one's own interests. Like many couples we have a lot of shared interests, hi-fi just isn't one of them!
The Grand Wazoo
22-04-2009, 17:33
........... and having one place in the whole house which doesn't need to be 'child friendly'............
When my 3 sisters & I were tiny, my old man used to get in our playpen, so he could read his paper without being crawled all over by a horde of brats!
When our daughter was tiny, I was terrified that she might develop an early & catastrophic 'interest' in the hi-fi. My answer was to build a fortified defence system(!) like a big wooden fireguard, out of an old cot. It worked a treat!
However, at the ripe old age of 17, she now has a Thorens TD160 & a large collection of vinyl - dats ma girl!.
Hi Guys,
I suspect that the forum members are mainly guys because all the one's I have been in contact with have either male christian names or 'male sounding' nom de plumes. I wonder if this is because it is difficult to share the hobby at the levels we all strive for. In the few days that I have been a member here I have learned a lot about speaker placement (perhaps a fraction of 1% of what there is to know but increasing my previous knowledge base by an astronomical number). The little that I have learned tells me that there is really only 1 place in any given (normal) listening room where one pair of ears receive the highest possible sound quality. This being the case, sharing this experience with another pair of ears at the same time is not physically possible - to share you have to compromise, which goes contrary to everything that we are striving (and spending shedloads) to achieve.
OR am I misundestanding the situation (again !!) If so, feel very free to enlighten me. Alternatively, if I am correct, I would be interested in other members thoughts on the subject.
Look forward to hearing from you,
Dave.
This is an interesting thread Dave, welcome to the forum.
In my experience women often have a better hearing acuity than men and they do appreciate good music reproduction. What they don't understand, or appreciate, is the sometimes contant tinkering and obsesive behaviour displayed by some followers of our hobby. In a way it is a bit like car enthusiasts who are constantly under the bonnets of their cars on a Saturday morning. Whilst women can often hear quite clearly any change made and whether it is an improvement or not, they are usually immune to the 'up-grading' bug.
There are of course some male enthusiasts who, in their search for speakers that suit them and their ears, build or buy designs that are either so large or so ugly that their partners object. This is called the 'wife acceptance factor' (WAF) and does sometimes have to be taken into account, but I know of only one situation where it was: 'either those speakers go or I go!'. In the end both speakers and wife remained. In my own case, my wife bought me my speakers as a wedding present, based on their performance. Some would say that these speakers are both ugly as well as 'user unfriendly', having a very resticted listener 'sweet spot' - which brings me to your comment on speaker placement.
Having seen the photographs of your system, you really would greatly benefit from moving the speakers off the floor and away from the wall. I am unfamiliar with your speakers, but suspect that if you follow Chris's advice then more than one person would easily be able to enjoy listening to them. My own speakers are very restricted but neither my wife, nor guests or friends have ever complained. Anyway, I quite often listen off axis - not all the listening I do is that critical.
I think the secret is to try and have a system with which you are reasonably content. It doesn't have to be expensive. Find a good dealer, preferably one who will let you audition equipment (especially speakers) in your own home. Obviously be aware of better gear, but don't let it spoil the enjoyment of what you have already, if you can't afford to upgrade. Most of my equipment is thirty years old. Remember it is all only a means to an end - it's the music that matters.
Happy listening
Barry
Thanks (Guys?) to all contributors - particularly for the kind words - let's keep it going, the discussion, not the kind words (necessarily :lolsign:).
I am not being rude - it probably just emphasises my naivete (again - I like that word) - but I have been suprprised by the unanimity of opinions on this subject and on the subject of my speaker placement. My expectations were that there would probably be nearly as many different opinions (on both subjects) as there were contributors - I guess that means either 'great minds think alike' OR 'fools never differ'. :lolsign:
To update interested parties, the tide has turned in my favour and Budget Controller (and best mate (?) for nearly 43 years) has, somewhat reluctantly I feel, accepted that if I want speaker stands then I shall have to have speaker stands (see my posting requesting advice on the subject).
So rc60 deluxes, are being pencilled in, maybe after we come back of our holiday in mid May, assuming the £/euro
rate hasn't gone beserk !! Thanks again to Wazoo Chris for the pointer - hope he's on commission.:)
My problem now is what price Controller will exact - probably the long delayed lounge re-decoration !!:steam:
Dave
Ali Tait
22-04-2009, 20:13
Interesting what you say about female aural acuity Barry,I always thought the same thing.However,a friend who is an ear specialist tells me that this is in fact an urban myth and that there is no difference in acuity between the sexes. :confused:
Hi Ali,
Even the most modern science isn't capable of accurately measuring ALL parameters of any measurable aspect (not right words but vocabulary is fading), particularly something that is to some extent subjective and certainly more of a (black ?) art than an engineering science, IMHO.
Like many 'old wives tales', if they are widely perceived as being true there is probably more than a grain of truth in the belief that women are more audibly acute than we mere males - I certainly believed this to be true many years before I caught the hi-fi bug.
Cheers,:cool:
Dave.
The Grand Wazoo
22-04-2009, 21:13
It's just a thought, but is their acuity better or are they better able to express what they hear while us 'obsessives' are still listening out for all the things we expect (or hope) to hear?
I have also noticed that many women are also better shots than many men - I've seen & heard of many blokes teaching their wife/girlfriend to shoot, only to find that she's far better than them.
Ali Tait
22-04-2009, 21:21
Well I believed it too for many years,but if it is the case,why are so few women interested in high-fidelity music reproduction? Surely if women's hearing is more discerning in general,more would be interested in hi-fi? At least the sound if not the kit itself.
Interesting what you say about female aural acuity Barry,I always thought the same thing.However,a friend who is an ear specialist tells me that this is in fact an urban myth and that there is no difference in acuity between the sexes. :confused:
Ali
I did say: 'In my experience women often ...'. I didn't mean to imply it as a fact that all women in general have a better hearing acuity than men. I mentioned it as a way of saying that a lot of women are interested in and appreciate good sound reproduction. My wife used to play the cello and she certainly has a better ear than me when it comes to assessing instrumental fidelity.
I would also agree with Chris; that women are often better at expressing what they hear.
Barry
Beechwoods
22-04-2009, 21:25
Well I believed it too for many years,but if it is the case,why are so few women interested in high-fidelity music reproduction? Surely if women's hearing is more discerning in general,more would be interested in hi-fi? At least the sound if not the kit itself.
I just think they don't get so wound up by achieving perfection. Most people enjoy music regardless of the means of reproduction. I think men are more obsessive compulsive in general... and this hobby can be a bit obsessive compulsive!
NB. I haven't had much experience of women so take what i say with a pinch of salt, eh :)
Ali Tait
22-04-2009, 21:38
Hi Barry,I didn't take you as meaning such,it's just that I though the same as you.Acuity of course varies from individual to individual.It was just a surprise to me when my friend,who is quite prominent in his field,informed me that there is no tendency for women to have superior hearing.I'd also agree that they are less obsessive about it,and can be more articulate.Witness my ex-wife,who once said to me-"I don't miss you,but I do miss your hi-fi" :lolsign:
aquapiranha
22-04-2009, 21:39
I have noticed that there are quite a few forums that devote sections to cars, bikes and especially cameras which to me illustrate that in general many of the people "into" hifi (and I say that as a seperate entity to music) are also gadget freaks, who would be into something else that allows them to climb the ladder to the point of deminishing returns if not hifi. I think that in the main women are simply not interested in the method, more the end result, ie the music and hence there are less of them on here...imo
Of course women have better hearing!
One of them told me so. ;)
Just kidding, I think the term was "better listeners" actually. I wasn't prepared to argue! :)
Beechwoods
22-04-2009, 21:44
I have noticed that there are quite a few forums that devote sections to cars, bikes and especially cameras which to me illustrate that in general many of the people "into" hifi (and I say that as a seperate entity to music) are also gadget freaks, who would be into something else that allows them to climb the ladder to the point of deminishing returns if not hifi.
I think there's often also an element of willy-waving going on :bag:
I just think they don't get so wound up by achieving perfection. Most people enjoy music regardless of the means of reproduction. I think men are more obsessive compulsive in general... and this hobby can be a bit obsessive compulsive!
Agreed. With my wife it's a case of 'close enough is good enough', especially if the cost to achieve a given improvement represents poor value for money.
I think there may be an analogy with driving. I know several women who like to drive 'performance' cars and drive them well; they just don't read car magazines or discuss the merits of various tyres etc.
If your partner allows you to enjoy your hobby, be greatful - if she shows more of an interest, rejoice!
Barry
The Grand Wazoo
22-04-2009, 21:51
You surely must have heard the tale of the difference between men & women & the hole in the ground.
..........and I fear Mike Parry may be about to appear............this really is 'God's Own Electronics Part II
Women see a hole in the ground & walk past saying "Oh look, there's a hole in the ground. Someone should cover that up"
Men gather round the hole & peer down it.
Beechwoods
22-04-2009, 21:55
:lol:
Women see a hole in the ground & walk past saying "Oh look, there's a hole in the ground. Someone should cover that up"
Men gather round the hole & peer down it.
I like that. :)
Agreed re. 'Gods own electronics' ! :sofa:
Spectral Morn
22-04-2009, 22:05
Well stop using MP's name in vain and maybe he won't appear.;)
I like the hole analogy....:lol:
Regards D S D L
Thought you would, Daphne :lolsign:
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
22-04-2009, 22:30
I thought everyone knew that one.
Dave (Dave&Sue) must be wondering what the hell we're talking about. It's an old(ish) thread Dave, if you're interest is piqued it's here - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2230.
I'm saying no more than that, or I'll have to cancel my subscriptions to MENSA & The Kennel Club & I'll also have to resign my post as Equal Opportunities Officer at the Women's Institute.
My thread and I'm completely lost !!!
Dave.:)
Spectral Morn
22-04-2009, 22:45
Its like that here sometimes.....:)
Its a reference to an older thread that went pair shaped...a whimsical thought that became a serious attack on Chris.
Click on the link Chris posted and you will see.
And Marco its actually Katherine....;):lol:
Regards D S D L
...Witness my ex-wife,who once said to me-"I don't miss you,but I do miss your hi-fi" :lolsign:
Hi Ali,
In my case, when I was 'courting' (crickey - doesn't that sound old fashioned) it was more a case of: "love me, love my hi-fi". When I saw that she knew how to correctly handle my LPs and use the turntable, I thought we could have a future together.
Barry
aquapiranha
22-04-2009, 22:54
Neil, whats going on with your avatar?
The Grand Wazoo
22-04-2009, 22:56
Neil, whats going on with your avatar?
Don't be sexist now, we'll have none of that here. It's not Neil....(or Daphne), Its Katherine.
Spectral Morn
22-04-2009, 23:01
I didn't think you guys could cope with me being such a BABE and all....:lolsign: so I stayed hidden :lol:
Truth be told if I looked like that the shop I was manager of would not have got into trouble.
Regards D S D L
Neil, whats going on with your avatar?
Is this what Daleks look like inside their exo-skeletons?
Barry
Spectral Morn
22-04-2009, 23:18
You wish...No more like this...
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/Dalek6.gif:lolsign:
Regards D S D L :lol:
Its a reference to an older thread that went pair shaped...a whimsical thought that became a serious attack on Chris.
No it didn't... it went pear shaped! :ner: :lolsign:
Your version brings up an entirely different 'image' in my tiny little mind... but we'd best not get into that! :lol:
Beechwoods
23-04-2009, 05:44
When I saw that she knew how to correctly handle my LPs and use the turntable, I thought we could have a future together.
:stalks: :stalks: you mean you let your wife touch your records; oh my word... that is the definition of trust :lolsign:
When I saw that she knew how to correctly handle my LPs and use the turntable
Perhaps that's a euphemism for something else? :eyebrows:
Marco.
Hi Neil,
Love the avatar of your wife - you're definitely punching above your weight IMHO.:lolsign:
Dave.
Spectral Morn
23-04-2009, 09:06
;)
Regards D S D L
PS What passes for normality is now restored. :lol:
Hi Chris,
Thanks for the link - now I understand !!
Perhaps, as a newbie, I shouldn't comment further but I have attended a lot of lectures over my working life and none of them had the effect that MP's had on him - probably something to do with it being contrary to the lectures endured in the 'University of Life':) 'Anally retentive' springs to mind, or something anal, anyway.
Hope 'anal' is a word that doesn't affect too many and start another similar thread.:lolsign:
Dave.
Perhaps that's a euphemism for something else? :eyebrows:
Marco.
Groan ...... No innuendo was intended !
Barry
:stalks: :stalks: you mean you let your wife touch your records; oh my word... that is the definition of trust :lolsign:
Of course - don't you?
I would write that I am sure your wife touches your Nagra, but that would only set Marco off.
Incidentally, this morning I replaced the drive belts in my Uher. After years of use they had become stretched and floppy - cue Marco !!!
Barry
Hahahahahahahahaha... I'm such a vereeee bad boy! :lol: :eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
Ali Tait
23-04-2009, 16:59
Hi Ali,
In my case, when I was 'courting' (crickey - doesn't that sound old fashioned) it was more a case of: "love me, love my hi-fi". When I saw that she knew how to correctly handle my LPs and use the turntable, I thought we could have a future together.
Barry
Ah well that just shows you,I never let her near my system! To be fair,I was more worried about her getting zapped by the 450v B+ on my valve amps at the time. :)
twelvebears
29-04-2009, 06:02
My better-half is both a huge music fan and appreciates the sound my system produces. She's often said that it's the way it makes albums and tracks she thought she already knew perfectly sound so different and much more alive, that keeps her pulling records out until she's surrounded by a sea of covers.
At said, as much as she appreciates the sound, she still glazes over if I go into geek mode and start explaining what I've done. To use here words, "I see your mouth moving, but all I'm hearing is bla, bla, bla, waffle...."
Oh and generally she prefers that I don't tell her how much I've spent of things so that she's not scared to use them...
The Grand Wazoo
29-04-2009, 07:19
All of the talk of 'Financial Controllers' & keeping spouses away from your precious belongings makes me think of someone who I used to know professionally & his..........shall we say....... 'manouverings'.
I used to do quite a bit of shooting (both target & the sensitive controlling of deer on the forestry assets that I used to manage). This guy used to shoot too and was obsessed by his hobby - and the kit...........now where have I heard that before? So conversations often revolved around him telling me about his latest purchase & how much better it was than the old one.
Anyway, his wife was blissfully unaware of the true extent of his activity - they must have had their own bank accounts I guess. She thought he only had two rifles. Now, because they have to be locked away in a secure gun cabinet & you must not let the keys fall into anyone else's hands, she never actually peeked inside the cabinet.
He had two different models of rifle, yes - that much was true. There was a Remington and an Anshutz. But because he only ever took them out of the cabinet one at a time (John Wayne in 'True Grit' was the only person who was ever able to fire two rifles at the same time!!) what she didn't know was that he had three identical Remingtons & three identical Anshutz's - each in three different calibres. Each was worth many hundreds of £££'s & each had an identical telescopic sight, worth perhaps 50% more than the rifle it was mounted on!
Brave man, but very...very ....stupid.
Beechwoods
30-04-2009, 05:44
I would write that I am sure your wife touches your Nagra, but that would only set Marco off.
Incidentally, this morning I replaced the drive belts in my Uher. After years of use they had become stretched and floppy - cue Marco !!!
Don't get him started, Barry! Perhaps this says everything about Mrs B but my Nagra was actually a surprise gift from her. She knew I considered them the pinnacle of portable reel to reels. When it comes to an appreciation of fine Swiss engineering she has great taste.
Glad to hear you're keeping the Uher serviceable. Mine had to have it's belts replaced when I bought it. It was a nice job to do because they're so thoughtfully designed. Not as cute as the Nagra inside, but great engineering nonetheless. Where did you get your belts from by the way?
Don't get him started, Barry! Perhaps this says everything about Mrs B but my Nagra was actually a surprise gift from her. She knew I considered them the pinnacle of portable reel to reels. When it comes to an appreciation of fine Swiss engineering she has great taste.
Glad to hear you're keeping the Uher serviceable. Mine had to have it's belts replaced when I bought it. It was a nice job to do because they're so thoughtfully designed. Not as cute as the Nagra inside, but great engineering nonetheless. Where did you get your belts from by the way?
The replacement belts were obtained from 'Uher New Replacement Belts' in America, via eBay (sellers username is 'n1ti'). They cost $10 (shipping is free). If you are interested, I can give you the address via a PM, as I'm not sure if it is the 'done thing' to openly give out this sort of information in the forum. It only took about 10 minutes to fit them; the seller provides an excellent video clip on how to do this.
Regarding the Nagra - Gosh, you must have a very appreciative and loving wife to provide such a gift. My machine is the achievement of a long held ambition. It is quite old (low serial number) and has had much use, but is in very good cosmetic condition and excellent working condition. I bought it from Richmond Sound Services, who told me that the machine had just been serviced and calibrated. I dread the day when I will have to have it serviced: the service will probably cost more than I paid for the machine!
Regards
Barry
Beechwoods
30-04-2009, 09:07
lol Barry. My machine came from Richmond Film Services too. Great people in my experience :) And don't worry about posting up contact details for the Uher belts. Others may benefit from the same information. I got mine from Germany but they were more expensive than yours :)
lol Barry. My machine came from Richmond Film Services too. Great people in my experience :) And don't worry about posting up contact details for the Uher belts. Others may benefit from the same information. I got mine from Germany but they were more expensive than yours :)
Hello Nick,
My belts came from:
uher@mattapoistt.org ,
PO Box 1084,
Mattapoisette,
MA 02739
USA
http://matapoisett.org/uher
I was going to suggest that maybe your German sourced belts were more expensive because they were Uher approved, but I have no reason to suspect that the American source is not also an approved supplier.
As a tape enthusiast you may well be aware of the following, but I will quote it verbatim from the note that came with the belts, as it was of interest to me and I suspect, to others:
"To improve the life of your existing or newly installed belts, it is recommended to run your recorder for at least a minute every 30 days. Belts resting on a pully or idler can develop a memory which can increase wow and flutter significantly. If you are going to embark on a recording project, always run your recorder in play for at least 5 minutes to iron out any memory developed in rubber belts."
Good advice I thought.
Finally, lest you should think that I was being envious or ungrateful, my Quad electrostatic speakers were given to me by my wife as a wedding present.
Regards
Barry
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