View Full Version : Speaker suggestions with a Leak 20 valve amplifier
I will shortly be receiving some old hi-fi gear that belongs to my father but hasn't been used in a good 15 years and I won't have a chance to see it up close for another couple of weeks. Although I grew up surrounded by hi-fi equipment I'm completely out of touch these days and just trying to work out my options here.
The basis of the system is an Arcam Delta 270, which was a pretty decent CD player at the time, though I don't know how it would compare to more modern players. Perhaps more interesting to some of you will be the Leak 20 valve amplifier, however there are no speakers and I have a challenge of finding something suitable to complete the setup. There is also a Creek tuner but I'm not sure if that will ever be used.
I'm very aware that hi-fi can become an endless pursuit for perfection that is quickly followed by bankruptcy, so my primary aim is just to find a solution that will balance nicely with the other components without costing a fortune. I'm quite happy to buy used speakers as long as they are in good condition but space is a real issue so they have to be small. It's a normal sized lounge, but by the time you throw in a 40" TV, sofa and a few bits of furniture the speaker space starts looking tight and wall mounting may be the only option. Would this be an impossible task with a budget of a few hundred pounds?
In terms of sound I'd like to avoid anything too brash and music tastes are closer to Burt Bacharach than Sid Vicious. We live in a semi-detached house and I don't want to annoy the neighbours either. I'd love to hear your suggestions for suitable speakers.
Thanks
Ashley
If the Stereo 20 hasn't been looked at, then I really recommend you get it 'done' since it'll be well off otherwise.
There are a large number of Chinese import speakers for a few hundred quid, all of which should be suitable and of course 'the firm I dare not name' has an excellent little stand/shelf mounted speaker perfect for the Leak (model number RS1) since the balance is lively and the crossover simple.
The Leak was completely overhauled when my father bought it but hasn't been looked at in a good 15 years. I've added an image.
I was curious to learn the name of the "the firm I dare not name" so I Googled RS1 speaker, which brought up two separate brand names... One of them was huge though and cost about £2K so I imagine you mean the other brand, which coincidentally was the maker of my first turntable. They had a pretty good reputation once upon a time but I hadn't even thought about Chinese options. Back in the 80s it was British or nothing.
9910
walpurgis
04-06-2013, 19:58
Tannoys! Just about all the decent dual concentric Tannoys will turn in a super performance with the Stereo 20.
Or, a vintage pair of first series Celestion Ditton 15s. They work perfectly with the Leak and sound well matched to it.
Tannoys! Just about all the decent dual concentric Tannoys will turn in a super performance with the Stereo 20.
Or, a vintage pair of first series Celestion Ditton 15s. They work perfectly with the Leak and sound well matched to it.
I think you might have missed this bit, Geoff!
space is a real issue so they have to be small.
I think it would be "nil points" on both accounts! ;)
Ashley - can you expand a little on what a "few hundred pounds" might look like? If it is my wife wanting a new wardrobe "a few hundred" would be about £800 whereas if I'm owning up to how much I spent on music and hi-fi last year "a few hundred" would be nearer £300! ;)
I think you might have missed this bit, Geoff!
I think it would be "nil points" on both accounts! ;)
Ashley - can you expand a little on what a "few hundred pounds" might look like? If it is my wife wanting a new wardrobe "a few hundred" would be about £800 whereas if I'm owning up to how much I spent on music and hi-fi last year "a few hundred" would be nearer £300! ;)
A few hundred pounds is definitely closer to your interpretation and if I could get something decent around £300 (used or new) that would be ideal. I am currently writing a book that is due for release in a month or so and if sales go well I might permit myself a small extra splurge if the rest of the setup doesn't need a lot of attention but I'm determined not to go down that slippery slope towards a Goldmund Reference II for the old vinyl collection...
Cheers Ashley - that'll help. :) Don't tell everyone, but you really don't need to sell your Granny to get good sound, and I admire (and adopt) your aversion to slippery slopes... :)
walpurgis
04-06-2013, 22:49
I think you might have missed this bit, Geoff!
Wrong. A pair of System 800 Tannoys for instance sound just fine with the Leak. They are compact and with their 94db sensitivity, suit valves well.
julesd68
04-06-2013, 23:41
I am currently writing a book that is due for release in a month or so and if sales go well I might permit myself a small extra splurge
Interesting! Are you allowed to divulge the subject matter?
Interesting! Are you allowed to divulge the subject matter?
Rest assured it's nothing to do with finding the right speakers for an old valve amplifier. It's a book on photography covering a subject that most photographers struggle with. The author struggles more than most :doh:
walpurgis
05-06-2013, 09:06
Wouldn't a pair of Celestion Ditton 15s suit you? They are quite popular here on AOS and they sound rather nice on the end of a Stereo 20. They have the right power handling and sensitivity and are from the right era. I just happen to have a near mint pair going spare and I'm going to be in Cornwall in the next few days and may just be persuaded to bring them along. Which bit of Cornwall are you in?
9916
I don't really know anything about the Celestion 15s, however I shall do a bit of reading. At first glance I get the impression they are quite big but that was just looking at Google images. I'm in St Austell, however it's a bit early for me at this stage because I won't even have the amplifier and CD player for another couple of weeks and there is a good chance the Leak will need to be serviced before even attempting to match some speakers, so I wouldn't ask you to cart around your speakers at this stage, though it's kind of you to make the offer.
I called somebody earlier who deals with a range of old & new hi-fi equipment and he suggested a pair Leak mini speakers but the price he mentioned seemed a tad inflated compared to prices I've seen advertised on the internet. I asked about new speakers but he was quite dismissive, saying the old gear was better quality. Perhaps he just wanted to get rid of the Leaks!
walpurgis
05-06-2013, 10:06
Not to worry.
I'd steer clear of the smaller Leak speakers. The 'Mini Sandwich' and the '2030' for instance, are not great. I've owned them. As collectables, they may be worth possibly £40. Any more is silly!
A great little seventies speaker that works well with the Leak amp is the Mordaunt Short Pageant II, there are still plenty about and they don't fetch big money (yet). Well worth looking out for.
Not to worry.
I'd steer clear of the smaller Leak speakers. The 'Mini Sandwich' and the '2030' for instance, are not great. I've owned them. As collectables, they may be worth possibly £40. Any more is silly!
A great little seventies speaker that works well with the Leak amp is the Mordaunt Short Pageant II, there are still plenty about and they don't fetch big money (yet). Well worth looking out for.
Yes I've already pretty much ruled out the Leak speakers and incidentally the figure he mentioned was around £300, which immediately struck me as a high figure for speakers of that age. A bit of searching on eBay shows you can pick them up for a tenner...
I'm really fine with new or old speakers as long as they get the job done and work well with the amplifier. A modern looking pair of black speakers would be a much easier sell to the wife it has to be said, which is why I've been looking at the Rega RS1 with reasonable interest. It's all early days though and it may be a couple of months before I'm ready to get the speakers. The Morduants you mentioned seem to be highly rated.
I dared not name the RS1 speakers above for fear of shilling accusations, but for a very few hundred quid, they should tick all the boxes for a UK made NEW loudspeaker presenting an easy amp load. Obviously, if you're happy to look at good used speakers, there are very many out there that should do the job well for you.
I dared not name the RS1 speakers above for fear of shilling accusations, but for a very few hundred quid, they should tick all the boxes for a UK made NEW loudspeaker presenting an easy amp load. Obviously, if you're happy to look at good used speakers, there are very many out there that should do the job well for you.
Forgive my ignorance because I've been away from hi-fi for too long but Rega were once considered a highly respected British company when I had a Rega Planar 3 that sang sweetly with the right amp and speakers. It might not have quite matched the Linn Sondek but it was still a strong performer at a much more reasonable price.
walpurgis
05-06-2013, 12:08
Just a thought. 'Puffin' (Rob), here on AOS, has a pair of Mission 780SE speakers offered. They are easy to drive and sound great. They are fairly efficient for their size and should work fine with the Stereo 20. You can always send Rob a PM. Check this thread out.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?26033-Mission-780se
Just a thought. 'Puffin' (Rob), here on AOS, has a pair of Mission 780SE speakers offered. They are easy to drive and sound great. They are fairly efficient for their size and should work fine with the Stereo 20. You can always send Rob a PM. Check this thread out.
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?26033-Mission-780se
Thanks they look nice, especially in black, so I may just drop him a line. I'm wondering if this is one of those cases where buying used will offer a lot more bang more for my money.
walpurgis
05-06-2013, 14:25
You definitely get plenty of bang for your buck with them. They're the most dynamic small speakers I've ever owned. I've actually heard Rob's and they are lovely. He packs stuff well too, so you'd get them in one piece.
I've sent Rob a PM to see if he still has them. As a Cornish bumpkin living in the countryside I'm hoping they'll sit well with a fairly mellow choice in music. More Sade than Sid Vicious.
The next task will be to think about how best to mount any speakers and I'm wondering if they can be wall mounted somehow.
walpurgis
05-06-2013, 16:35
Fortunately, being front ported and having a clean bass delivery, I reckon you might get away with wall mounting for the 780SEs. Not too close to the ceiling though.
I've just shot a quick image of the lounge to illustrate the space problem.
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walpurgis
05-06-2013, 20:23
Well it looks twice the size of my listening room and I've got a big pair of floor standing Tannoys in mine plus three turntables and about a dozen other bits.
If you want to wall mount I may have a pair of swivelling corner wall brackets going spare. I'd have to rummage in the garage to be sure.
Perhaps my image makes it appear a little bigger than it is because I used a wideangle 24mm lens but I'd say it's roughly 4m both in length and width but the few bits of furniture we have seem to leave precious little space for anything extra. That's a 40 inch TV in the corner that has to stay at that end of the room and there is also a leather chair not shown in the image against the wall behind me.
technobear
06-06-2013, 06:49
That's a 40 inch TV in the corner...There's your problem. Put the TV in the middle of the end wall or put it in front of the window. Place a speaker either side.
I think we could solve the space issue by switching everything round, so the the sofa and chair are where the mirror and TV are at present. I'd have to put in an extension cable so the TV could be at the other end of the room with a stand mounted speaker on either side. The only downside I can see with this is that we might have sunlight in our eyes for a large chunk of the day if watching TV but I know our neighbour has this configuration, so I may ask them if it's a problem. We'd also have to navigate past a speaker coming in an out of the kitchen and I just hope the dog doesn't have a mad moment...
I've managed to locate some used Atacama Nexus 6i speaker stands that I gather are a respectable alternative to the original Mission Stance stands, though I should probably wait until the speakers are sorted before committing to any stands. In an ideal world I should be testing all these items together as a system before purchasing, so I'm taking a bit of a punt but I think it's a reasonable risk as long as I can buy at the right price.
I won't be buying those speaker stands mentioned above. They were missing parts and the seller wanted almost the same money as a brand new set.
Ali Tait
07-06-2013, 20:31
Well it looks twice the size of my listening room and I've got a big pair of floor standing Tannoys in mine plus three turntables and about a dozen other bits.
If you want to wall mount I may have a pair of swivelling corner wall brackets going spare. I'd have to rummage in the garage to be sure.
Aye well, the OP's prolly got an other half he's got to keep happy, unlike yersel! :lol:
I'd get a small pair of standmounts.
Take up no more room than stands/bookshelves.
I'd get a small pair of standmounts.
Take up no more room than stands/bookshelves.
I'll sort out some kind of stand for sure. We couldn't make it work with the current layout but by turning everything around and putting the TV at the other end of the room it should be fine. I'm just a bit wary of having speakers fairly close to the door that leads to the kitchen. I've just spent the last half hour looking intently at different speaker stand options. I really like the look of the Custom Design FS104 Signature stands but I can't bring myself to spend that much and I hope something around the £70 should be pretty good.
Our cat jumped on the new TV two days after we had it delivered and brought it crashing down. Since then I've added weights at the back and have it clamped to the table but if he does anything to the hi-fi I'll release him on Bodmin Moor so you'll know who is responsible if you hear about a new beast seen terrorising the tourists.
We've managed to move everything around and lose a couple pieces of furniture, so there is a bit more space now and I've had a rethink on the speaker situation. I'm now leaning towards a floorstanding type and have my eye on a pair of Ruark Talisman II speakers. They aren't hugely expensive and seem to have very good reviews.
Anyone trying Mission 760's or 780's above ear height should try turning them upside down, since the best sound 'used to be' when one could just see the top of the speakers (when conventionally stand mounted).
Ruarks used to sound like they had a carrot up their backside... Nice boxes though.
Ruarks used to sound like they had a carrot up their backside... Nice boxes though.
I had heard the bit about Mission speakers sounding better upside down but I had to pick myself up from the floor with laughter at that comment on the Ruark speakers.
Used to be true once upon a time. Music should FLOW, rudely sometimes, but not sound so overdamped and dry - IMO obviously...
Try some Epos ES14's if you can find a good pair. The Leak TL12's absolutely loved them :)
It's rather frustrating but I'm still waiting to get my hands on the Leak and the Arcam so I'm not much further forward than before. Fortunately it has given me time to completely reorganise the room and do lots of reading about speakers. Having a bit more space at hand now I'm leaning strongly towards a floor standing solution for a rather banal motive. The cat is certain to knock over a bookshelf speaker on a stand because he is bound to jump on it at some point at high speed.
The Tannoy Mercury V4 can be run with a 10 watt amp and found for £250 brand new but they appear to be highly rated. I also hear good things about some of the Morduant Short speakers without having to remortgage the house.
Once you look at the used market, you can go mad with suitable choices for little money.
One great cheap used buy for me would be the TDL RTL2 in nasty bubbly vinyl-wrap - NOT the better looking SE version which is terribly voiced like the AE109's were :( The boxes can be usefully re-veneered properly, but the tonal qualities are sublime for amps like this and can be gently refined further.
It's definitely more fun looking for used speakers and has become a bit of a game hoping to discover that lost gem somewhere for £20. I've seen a few good deals but also some real rip off artists wanting hundreds for badly damaged junk. One small consideration is that we will have to place these speakers either side of the TV and I see modern speakers are shielded so they won't damage the TV but I don't know if that is the case with some of these older speakers.
There are a few of those TDL RTL2 speakers on eBay and a pair can be bought for around £50. They are a nice size but apparently they require a minimum 30 watt amplifier and my Leak is only 20 watts. I've heard wildly varying opinions on the bass but I don't know if that is down to subjective differences of opinion or heavily influenced by the choice of amplifiers they are using.
It's definitely more fun looking for used speakers and has become a bit of a game hoping to discover that lost gem somewhere for £20. I've seen a few good deals but also some real rip off artists wanting hundreds for badly damaged junk. One small consideration is that we will have to place these speakers either side of the TV and I see modern speakers are shielded so they won't damage the TV but I don't know if that is the case with some of these older speakers.
.
Only a CRT telly will be affected by unshielded speakers and only then if they are within about 6 inches. I would think the Leak would have no issues driving the RTL2.
Contrary to what I read earlier I found the specs for the RTL2 speakers directly on TDL's website and it's good to go with a 20 watt amp http://www.tdl-loudspeakers.co.uk/rtl2_techspecs.htm
There was a very long thread about these speakers on the pinkfishmedia with ideas how to improve them but it did sound like quite a lot of messing about. There was a nice review on them here http://www.tdl-loudspeakers.co.uk/pdf/rtl2_bass.pdf but from what they are saying the speakers need to be placed well away from the wall, which is a pity because it would block our passage through to the kitchen. Ideally I need something that can be placed close to the wall.
You could do worse than consider these studiospares monitors:
http://www.studiospares.com/studio-monitors/studiospares-sn10-pair-+-monitor-stands/invt/248002
They are supplied with stands. Sealed cabs so will work right up (couple of inches) to the wall - no low bass but very clean and open sounding - 8'' bass mid, solid build quality, gold plated speaker connections. I use them as the fronts on my home cinema set up but I have tried them on the big rig and they far from disgrace themselves. The whole package is just over £140 delivered.
I've been looking around some more this evening and it's quite astonishing how much some speakers cost these days. It's amazing how many speakers cost £10K+ and at the extremes several cost more than my house!! Apparently solid gold is the way to go if you are a Saudi Sheik...
technobear
18-06-2013, 11:31
In view of the cat issue, I'd be tempted to go for standmounts. Most budget floorstanders are not very heavy and are easily knocked over. On the other hand, if you get a stand like the Atacama SE24 which has a large pillar which can be filled with sand, or better lead shot, and attach the speakers using blu-tak, they will be very heavy and solid and a cat should not trouble them.
As to efficiency I would look to KEF Q Series, Triangle, Focal/JMlab and some Tannoys as being generally above average efficiency. A KEF Q15 or Q1 would be a great choice for that room and needn't be miles from the wall.
Another alternative is to make outrigger feet for a floorstander to give it more stability. The Mission 773e is a great small floorstander and can be head for less than a ton.
It looks like tomorrow or Wednesday will be the big day when I finally get my hands on the Leak and the Arcam, so this has focussed my attention on getting the speakers sorted. I have my eye on a couple pairs of TDL RTL2s, though I've heard they don't like being placed close to the wall and they seem to elicit a definite love or hate reaction.
Just through my continued reading it looks like most floorstanding speakers will struggle to match the stand mount speakers sonically at budget price levels but score better on bass, though the Tannoy Mercury V4 seems like a good all round bet for a new speaker within my budget. At the cheap end it looks like you can't go far wrong with the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 with a decent set of stands and there are loads of them on sale in good condition.
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