View Full Version : Gyrodec vs pimped Techie
Afternoon all, l am getting ear ache from 'er indoors regarding another T/T, l am wanting to get a MK5G or getting mine with a MK5G paintjob, all blue LED's etc, which will not be megabucks hopefully, then sticking my SME V on it with a cartridge like a Lyra Delos or Ortofon Cadanza ( this to be discussed later) a tasty SUT:eek:
Or as Mrs T would like a Gyro with the above arm/cart ( l must admit the Gyro SE does look nice! :stalks::stalks::stalks:).
But with all these things it is relative, and l love the speed stability of the Techie, so how do these two turntables compare to each other,, musicality is important to me ( another reason l like the Techie)thought l would throw it to the forum before l start talking to dealers and waste their time and mine or indeed my money etc:lol:, thanks for looking.
Audio Al
30-05-2013, 16:29
Andy , If you had listened to the 2 Techys at the WW show , freefall rob and radical :eek:
You would not want to deviate GUARANTEED :D
however if its time for a change the Giro is a quality unit , not sure how much better or even if it would be better than a fully pimped Techy
Audioman
30-05-2013, 16:35
A lot of the Freefall Rob's good sound I would put down to the phono stage and speakers used at Scalford. Those were lightly pimped Techies (but obviously where it matters). However in certain key areas my money would be on the Gyrodec though obviously the 2 designs have a rather different presentation. The SME is a very synergistic match for Mitchell decks and arm swapping is easy. I have also found my Gyro audibly very speed stable (with QC PS) -no wobbly piano notes. From what I have heard of Technics I would say Mitchell are the more musical if less muscular with much better soundstaging. Depends on preferences but I think you will need to throw a lot of £££s at a Technics to beat a well set up Gyro.
A lot of the Freefall Rob's good sound I would put down to the phono stage and speakers used at scalford. Those were lightly pimped Techies (but obviously where it matters). However in certain key areas my money would be on the Gyrodec though obviously the 2 designs have a rather different presentation.
Paul, could you expand a little?:)
Audio Al
30-05-2013, 16:38
A lot of the Freefall Rob's good sound I would put down to the phono stage and speakers used at scalford. Those were lightly pimped Techies (but obviously where it matters). However in certain key areas my money would be on the Gyrodec though obviously the 2 designs have a rather different presentation.
Also the cartridges Amp , Just goes to show its not about the money spent to get quality sound
It really depends how much you want to pimp the 1210 (Marco Martin and Rexton levels its a very different deck) if you willing to take your time and gradually keep improving the deck the 1210 the way to go. I no idea what would be best if you spend the same amount. For me the 1210 about potential Your only option after the gyro is upgrade to Orbe Gyro but imo still not going to get you to a well sorted 1210
Audioman
30-05-2013, 16:59
Paul, could you expand a little?:)
I think John has sort of covered it. Basically the really good sounding Technics involve spending several thousand and a lot of modding. Frankly my recommendation would be to go for an Orbe with your SME V. Will cost less than Marco/Martin level mods on a Technics.
My personnel view is the Orbe is pretty close in quality and you won't miss any differences. Mitchell decks do have a certain quality that doesn't leave you constantly itching to upgrade. I think you have to be looking at £6K+ to improve on it significantly. However you need to listen to examples of both in suitable systems to determine which sound is for you.
Apologies for sticking me oar in, but the SMEV does work particularly well with the Gyro, which itself can have Orbe bits added later to good effect..
Just a thought or two..
Further tweaks to my Techie if l were to go that way would be a poncy bearing... and that would be it probably.... but you never know.....
Before I comment, a couple of questions:
1) Andy, are you planning on buying a brand new Gyrodec or a second-hand one?
2) How much is a new Gyrodec without an arm (as an SME V is going to be used)?
Once I know that, I will advise on how much I think it would take to 'pimp' a Techy to the level of a new Gyrodec, as I'm familiar with the intrinsic sound of both T/Ts :)
Marco.
Frankyc2003
30-05-2013, 19:40
With the risk of being extremely controversial :ner:, I used to own a GyrOrbe (a gyro with HR PSU and Orbe Massive platter + SME 309 + Lyra Clavis) for the best part of 3 years.
It was great at soundstaging for sure, but I did find the whole deck dull IMHO... And that was regardless of phonostage used... (Whest, Slee, Icon Audio, Croft, etc...). It never got me fully ENGAGED in the music, there was always something nagging about the suspension, the tension on the belt, etc...
The day I got a techie, all my doubts and angst about vinyl were gone...
Over the last year I have added Isonoe, taken PSU out, got Mike New bearing, upgraded platter (from Inspire), rewired the techie tonearm.
I never looked back at the GyrOrbe...
I am in NO WAY saying that the Gyro isn't a good deck, because it is actually a fantastic piece of engineering, and a great deck. BUT
It will not be to everybody's taste (certainly wasn't to mine :mental:). And It doesn't come cheap...
So, demo it, listen to to both decks it in different combo before making the big leap...
I had similar experiences with Gyro I could live with Orbe/gyro a lot more. It was more solid sounding than gyro. I know a lot of people say its set up but I got mine set up by Richard at Harrow Audio so perhaps a synergy thing
Audioman
30-05-2013, 19:48
Most experts think the Gyro Orbe does not sound right. The general advice is to stick to a Gyrodec or get a proper Orbe. The Gyrodec is far from dull but is not overly bright like some other modern designs. Set the fecker up yourself in situ - don't trust dealers.
Prices
Gyrodec SE £1199
HR power supply option £395.
Orbe SE £2600.
Paul.
Wakefield Turntables
30-05-2013, 19:50
sticking my SME V on it with a cartridge like a Ortofon Cadanza ( this to be discussed later) a tasty SUT:eek:
.
Go as high up the Cadenza tree as you can and also get the orotfon SUT if you can afford it. Contrary to popular believe the V, Cadenza black and ST80SE SUT are a suberb tri-bo.
The SME is a very synergistic match for Mitchell decks and arm swapping is easy. I have also found my Gyro audibly very speed stable (with QC PS) -no wobbly piano notes. From what I have heard of Technics I would say Mitchell are the more musical if less muscular with much better soundstaging. Depends on preferences but I think you will need to throw a lot of £££s at a Technics to beat a well set up Gyro.
I agree with you that the SME and gyrodec work very well however I don't hear any wobbly piano notes on my deck. I'd also disagree with your musicality comment, but, hey thats what we are here to comment on. I think you've hit the nail on the head with the ££££££'s comment regarding the technie. You do need to spend money on them. But, you also get a deck which pretty much flattens all others.
It really depends how much you want to pimp the 1210 (Marco Martin and Rexton levels its a very different deck)
Shooks, :o
Further tweaks to my Techie if l were to go that way would be a poncy bearing... and that would be it probably.... but you never know.....
Do you have a MN bearing? If not this could be your biggest upgrade. Probably better than getting a Cadenza black. :lol:
Before I comment, a couple of questions:
1) Andy, are you planning on buying a brand new Gyrodec or a second-hand one?
2) How much is a new Gyrodec without an arm (as an SME V is going to be used)?
Once I know that, I will advise on how much I think it would take to 'pimp' a Techy to the level of a new Gyrodec, as I'm familiar with the intrinsic sound of both T/Ts :)
Marco.
Wow! Thanks for the posts, it would be a new Gyro, l had an Orbe years ago( l have not heard one in years) so my audio memory is unreliable, but l quite liked it if l recall, however once l got my E-bay special Techie in a way the musicality and solidty of sound shone through, there are some upgrades to the Techie l am not too keen on,ie the external PSU, as l said the bearing looks good and other internal mods, l doubt l would go to Marco ot Martin T levels!:lol: But l am leaning towards pimping the Techie after reading all your threads.........
You could always go for the superior NAS heavy-Space or save up for a Hyperspace, but you lot don't really want to listen to those, 'cos they don't look blingy enough ;)
Er no David:lol: as good as they may sound l hate the look of those NA turntables:(
Audioman
30-05-2013, 21:02
You could always go for the superior NAS heavy-Space or save up for a Hyperspace, but you lot don't really want to listen to those, 'cos they don't look blingy enough ;)
I would agree that Hyperspace and Orbe are pretty much on the same level. Slight preference for the Orbe though.
Andrew B
04-06-2013, 21:33
Er no David:lol: as good as they may sound l hate the look of those NA turntables:(
I've never had the privilege of hearing a Nottingham Analogue deck, but I have seen them in the flesh at a local dealer. He has a good few turntables on display including the SMEs. In terms of build quality, I thought the NAS decks made the rest look like toys. They also look a lot prettier in the flesh. When funds are there, I'm going to try one.
Personally, I have never liked Michell turntables, although I've not heard the more recent incarnations. They all tend to sound boring to me, lacking "balls" for want of a better word. That said, I do appreciate the engineering and love he looks.
I reckon that the only belt-drive turntable I could live with, long-term, is this: http://www.tw-acustic.de/en/turntables/raven-ac
Everything about that thing is AWESOME!!!
Marco.
walpurgis
04-06-2013, 22:00
Set the fecker up yourself in situ - don't trust dealers.
My view too. I've not come across a TT I couldn't set up. Anybody with a bit of common sense and practicality can do it. There may be exceptions, but I can't think of one.
That Raven TT Marco linked to looks the bizz. How much change out of ten grand do you get though?
I've always wanted to try the Opus 3 Continuo TT, but none have come my way yet. It may not look fancy, but the rumour has it that it's well worth investigating. Here's a thumbnail for those who haven't seen one.
l have decided ( though the wife does not know yet) to get the Techie pimped, so will be going down this route, thanks chaps...... more questions to follow..........:eek:
There are dealers, and there are dealers - please don't tar them all with the same brush! But I agree it may be pot-luck finding a good one.
That Raven TT Marco linked to looks the bizz. How much change out of ten grand do you get though?
It's probably the only T/T I'd be nervous about putting my Techy up against! How much is it? No doubt the price tag will come out of la-la land...
Marco.
Stratmangler
04-06-2013, 23:40
I reckon that the only belt-drive turntable I could live with, long-term, is this: http://www.tw-acustic.de/en/turntables/raven-ac
Everything about that thing is AWESOME!!!
Marco.
Bet it sounds shite :ner:
I heard the Raven at GT Audio a few years back but impossible to judge as I could not get on with the system sound. Lots of resolution but certainly added something to the mix, could of been the gigantic horns being used
Bet it sounds shite :ner:
Perhaps... I may be getting too swayed by the looks, which to my peepers, are *just* pant-wettingly gorgeous!
Marco.
I heard the Raven at GT Audio a few years back but impossible to judge as I could not get on with the system sound. Lots of resolution but certainly added something to the mix, could of been the gigantic horns being used
Probably the horns, John, depending on what music was being played. I love big horns (done well, with quality valve amplification), but ONLY when playing jazz, choral, classical or acoustic music/solo singers. Rock or pop (or dance) music, unless immaculately recorded, usually takes your head off! :eek:
Marco.
WOStantonCS100
05-06-2013, 07:44
The Raven reminds me a lot of the upper end Micro Seiki TTs. I'd take one... or all.
jandl100
05-06-2013, 08:17
I heard the Raven at GT Audio a few years back but impossible to judge as I could not get on with the system sound. Lots of resolution but certainly added something to the mix, could of been the gigantic horns being used
Back in the day when I was in touch with GT Audio (15 years ago?), Graham did like playing his Avantgarde horn hybrid speakers with bright sounding kit. :scratch:
But I heard thru that and took the risk and bought some Avantgardes from him anyway - I was right, with synergistic kit they sounded tonally neutral but retained their very fast and open presentation. I kept 'em for 5 years or so. :)
Let us savour, for a moment, its innate gorgeousness...
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9894/ravenac01.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/254/ravenac01.jpg/)
That, or a Platine Verdier, for me, is where (belt-drive) T/T heaven lies. Most of the rest are but toys in comparison.
Marco.
jandl100
05-06-2013, 08:51
Blingy!! :lolsign:
walpurgis
05-06-2013, 08:55
Seeing all that black and silver reminds me. I must dig out my old Connoisseur BD1 again. :)
Blingy!! :lolsign:
Not for me. There are no garish GOLD bits! Black and sliver/chrome (especially highly polished) always looks cool, in a 'piano black' kind of way, and I just LURVE copper on platters! :drool:
However, to make it perfect, I'd reduce the silver count slightly and replace it with more black (I'm thinking here specifically of the round silver bits on the four sides of the plinth, the silver under the arm-board, and perhaps the buttons on the PSU...
"Blingy", my boy, was some of the pig-ugly, headache-inducing material that was posted for fun recently on the 'Get yer turntables out for the lads' thread!! :exactly:
Marco.
Rare Bird
05-06-2013, 09:11
Sorry but i would not buy anything like that
Beobloke
05-06-2013, 09:12
Seeing all that black and silver reminds me. I must dig out my old Connoisseur BD1 again. :)
I wouldn't bother, personally...;)
Let us savour, for a moment, its innate gorgeousness...
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9894/ravenac01.jpg
That, or a Platine Verdier, for me, is where (belt-drive) T/T heaven lies. Most of the rest are but toys in comparison.
Marco.
Come on Marco! Please stop including the URL part of image links. :)
You know it's bleeding annoying when using TapaTalk!
Best regards Mike
Sorry, Mike, remind me what you're referring to again? I simply copy and paste the 'Forum Code' from Imageshack into the reply box here, and post it...
Marco.
jandl100
05-06-2013, 09:18
"Blingy", my boy ....
:lol: fancy a young whippersnapper like you calling an old geezer like me "my boy".
:wheniwasaboy:
Sorry but i would not buy anything like that
Lol, dude, I know. I much prefer the best classic vintage T/Ts, but the Raven AC is one of but a handful of modern T/Ts I could live with - providing that it sounded STUNNING! ;)
Marco.
:lol: fancy a young whippersnapper like you calling an old geezer like me "my boy".
:wheniwasaboy:
:lolsign:
But yooz iz funkee in ya own way!
Marco.
Oi you lot! This is my thread!:ner:
Going with the pimped Techie, if anyone is interested lol.
Audio Al
05-06-2013, 09:26
Going with the pimped Techie, if anyone is interested lol.
Did someone say something ?
I was looking at TT images :D
Oi you lot! This is my thread!
Going with the pimped Techie, if anyone is interested lol.
Come again? Who are you, daftee? :scratch:
:ner:
:lol:
Marco.
Gordon Steadman
05-06-2013, 09:36
I think I'll keep my Garrard SP25:lol:
That blingy thing looks like something Edgar Allen Poe might have dreampt up:eyebrows:
jandl100
05-06-2013, 09:40
... and that copper mat on it looks truly awful! :spew:
Some people have no taste. :eyebrows:
Come again? Who are you, daftee? :scratch:
:ner:
:lol:
Marco.
.:D
l am Junior daftee
... and that copper mat on it looks truly awful! :spew:
Some people have no taste. :eyebrows:
Ha - well, would you believe that some folk don't even like Tannoys!! :mental:
:D
Marco.
walpurgis
05-06-2013, 10:16
... and that copper mat on it looks truly awful! :spew:
Some people have no taste. :eyebrows:
But some people swear by them. I've not tried one, but if it works, who cares what it looks like.
When it comes to Hi-Fi (and women) ability comes before looks in my book.
jandl100
05-06-2013, 10:30
But some people swear by them. I've not tried one, but if it works, who cares what it looks like.
When it comes to Hi-Fi (and women) ability comes before looks in my book.
Yep.
And anyway the mat'll look alright with a record on top ;). .... then all you have to put up with is all the blingy chrome, of course. :lol:
Do you prefer blingy gold then to blingy chrome? I'm not a massive fan of the latter, but I can tolerate it MUCH more than the former, which really does make me puke!
It's the same for me with jewellery: give me silver or platinum any day over gold (my wife also agrees), or chrome (anything), or rather preferably brushed aluminium, over gold, in any kitchen or bathroom fittings or mirror surrounds, for example. Natural wood is probably ther best of the lot, though!
In the case of the Raven T/T, copper on satin-finished or polished black metal, for me, looks rather striking and classy. Gold anything, for me, always looks chavvy, in a pretentious and rather vulgar/dumb 'footballer's wife' sense.... Know wot I mean? :)
Marco.
jandl100
05-06-2013, 11:07
.... Know wot I mean? :)
No :lolsign:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF9132_zpsf86b0fa7.jpg
Ah, I forgot about your little speaker-ettes! :D
Marco.
julesd68
05-06-2013, 11:13
Do you prefer blingy gold then to blingy chrome? I'm not a massive fan of the latter, but I can tolerate it MUCH more than the former, which really does make me puke!
It's the same for me with jewellery: give me silver or platinum any day over gold (my wife also agrees), or chrome (anything), or rather preferably brushed aluminium, over gold, in any kitchen or bathroom fittings or mirror surrounds, for example. Natural wood is probably ther best of the lot, though!
In the case of the Raven T/T, copper on satin-finished or polished black metal, for me, looks rather striking and classy. Gold anything, for me, always looks chavvy, in a pretentious and rather vulgar/dumb 'footballer's wife' sense.... Know wot I mean? :)
Marco.
I know what you mean guvnor. I only wear platinum and silver jewellery ... The thought of a gold belcher chain is enough to make me reach, but each to their own!
BUT, I still love the way my Source looks. Don't think you could call it chavvy in any way. It's only the massive phosphor-bronze platter which has a gold look to it, but I think it goes very nicely with the black wood plinth.
If I could afford the RP1 Gold Signature arm for my Source I would buy it in a heartbeat, and wouldn't have any problems with its looks. I can't, but am hoping to have a 'black/gold' RP1 courtesy of the excellent John Gordon. :eyebrows:
No :lolsign:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF9132_zpsf86b0fa7.jpg
Looking good Jerry.
jandl100
07-06-2013, 07:43
Looking good Jerry.
and sounding even better. I am still madly deeply in lurv with them, even after over 3 years of ownership.
Here's me with my gold medallion ...
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_256/12075804903N29oX.jpg
:lol:
Rare Bird
07-06-2013, 07:46
Ha - well, would you believe that some folk don't even like Tannoys!! :mental:
;)
Do you prefer blingy gold then to blingy chrome? I'm not a massive fan of the latter, but I can tolerate it MUCH more than the former, which really does make me puke!
It's the same for me with jewellery: give me silver or platinum any day over gold (my wife also agrees), or chrome (anything), or rather preferably brushed aluminium, over gold, in any kitchen or bathroom fittings or mirror surrounds, for example. Natural wood is probably ther best of the lot, though!
:exactly:
You sure your not my bruvver?
and sounding even better. I am still madly deeply in lurv with them, even after over 3 years of ownership.
Here's me with my gold medallion ...
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_256/12075804903N29oX.jpg
:lol:
:respect:
;)
:exactly:
You sure your not my bruvver?
Yeah, dude, we came out of the same test-tube! :eyebrows:
Either that, or we've just got class :exactly:
Marco.
jandl100
07-06-2013, 08:40
Either that, or we've just got class :exactly:
Marco.
Yeah ...
http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/author/covers/bottom-of-the-class-wi.jpg
:lolsign:
My brother had a 1210. I always thought it was a bit shite TBH apart from the strobe which was a lot of fun. Quite pretty too I suppose. I never really liked the design from an engineering point of view. Suspended decks made much more sense to me.
It got ditched when his kids were caught playing My Little Pony with it - trashed the stylus/arm and it never got replaced.
Best thing about that system was the Ditton 25s. Hearing some 66s recently really rammed home how good those old Celestions really were AND STILL ARE!
Anyway, Michell all the way as a Gyro owner of 25 odd years.
RobbieGong
09-06-2013, 21:25
My brother had a 1210. I always thought it was a bit shite TBH apart from the strobe which was a lot of fun. Quite pretty too I suppose. I never really liked the design from an engineering point of view. Suspended decks made much more sense to me.
It got ditched when his kids were caught playing My Little Pony with it - trashed the stylus/arm and it never got replaced.
Best thing about that system was the Ditton 25s. Hearing some 66s recently really rammed home how good those old Celestions really were AND STILL ARE!
Anyway, Michell all the way as a Gyro owner of 25 odd years.
Dont know how your brothers 1210 was set up, good cart / bad cart ? etc.. My guess is it didn't have any upgrades of any kind ? A 12XX that has been sympathetically upgraded is a different sounding music extracting machine alltogether than stock I can tell ya :)
Dont know how your brothers 1210 was set up, good cart / bad cart ? etc.. My guess is it didn't have any upgrades of any kind ? A 12XX that has been sympathetically upgraded is a different sounding music extracting machine alltogether than stock I can tell ya :)
It probably is - but then it isn't a 1210 anymore. I'm sure you can do a lot to alter it and I am sure lots have done so. Because of this it is a hard call to compare a modded Technics to a Gyro/GyroOrbe/Orbe.
I bet of the 1210s that have been modded, some are far more successful than others.
BTW my brothers setup was standard and the last cart was an AKG of some sort.
RobbieGong
09-06-2013, 21:48
It probably is - but then it isn't a 1210 anymore. I'm sure you can do a lot to alter it and I am sure lots have done so. Because of this it is a hard call to compare a modded Technics to a Gyro/GyroOrbe/Orbe.
I bet of the 1210s that have been modded, some are far more successful than others.
BTW my brothers setup was standard and the last cart was an AKG of some sort.
Hi Justin, The reason people do upgrade the Techie the way they do is because its 'foundation' or 'heartbeat' is it's superb quartz motor drive system which is it's real strengh, lock tight rythm keeping. Once you then replace the weak areas with components worthy of that drive system you dont half hear the result :)
My take is that a properly working and properly set up stock 1200 is capable of superb results equal to, although different, to the quality of a Gyro. Too much guff talked about mods to this deck - I'm not saying that they don't also improve the sound but they are not the place to start. Replace the headshell (as the technics one is inferior - could well be the tags) and the mat and spend the money on a good fine line MM or a sympathetic MC and if you don't have one a proper RCM. If there is any money left after that then start looking at mods if you feel you need them.
Hi Justin, The reason people do upgrade the Techie the way they do is because its 'foundation' or 'heartbeat' is it's superb quartz motor drive system which is it's real strengh, lock tight rythm keeping. Once you then replace the weak areas with components worthy of that drive system you dont half hear the result :)
I expect so but then turntables are Voodoo. Change anything that alters a turntables resonant structure and there's a good chance you'll hear it. Including simply changing what it is sitting on. Given a high quality system, that is.
jandl100
09-06-2013, 22:30
I've heard MartinT's pretty much fully pimped Techie 1210 -- visually, you can just about see its origins! ;)
Sonically very distinctive - very fast, dynamic, solid and bold. Gut wobbling, eyeblink inducing slam. Actually, I think you'd love it, Justin.
I seem to recall I had a standard 1210 on one of your visits to Jerry Towers - you seemed to quite enjoy it then ..... Dire Straits? :)
Robbie is partly right, the heart of the Technics is that superb direct drive motor, but it's also the very heavy and dead sandwich construction plinth. They give it its signature strong rhythmic ability, deep bass and slam.
Sent from my Swansong HIV using Board Trouserpress Pro.
you typed that in didn't you? :)
Hehehehe.... Wot, moi? :eyebrows:
Marco.
jandl100
10-06-2013, 06:52
..... how about everyone taking the time to delete those stupid looking technobabble appendages to their posts? ;)
..... although that would spoil the occasional bit of fun for Marco. :)
..... how about everyone taking the time to delete those stupid looking technobabble appendages to their posts?
It's the default in Board Express Pro (a forum app on my phone) but message received and I've turned it off :)
...and, as a riposte, how about rendering your big sig into a smaller font? ;)
Sent from my Wankhong SUT using Bored Sexydress Pro.
Too much guff talked about mods to this deck - I'm not saying that they don't also improve the sound but they are not the place to start. Replace the headshell (as the technics one is inferior - could well be the tags) and the mat and spend the money on a good fine line MM or a sympathetic MC and if you don't have one a proper RCM. If there is any money left after that then start looking at mods if you feel you need them.
"Guff"? I'll guff you, bawheid! :wetkipper:
Yes, the best place to start is the stock mat, headshell (and feet) - all of which are guff (lol), and upgrade them with something more suitable for audiophile purposes. That will certainly get you on the way to having a pretty good T/T.
The next most fundamental thing to do is remove the PSU from underneath the platter and house it in a separate box, or better still, remove it and replace it with a top-notch external PSU, such as a Paul Hynes SR3 (for starters). I can't stress enough how sonically important it is to distance the cartridge, doing its job above, from that noisy and magnetic big lump of ferrous metal underneath the platter.
That done, and also the fitting of a quality MM cartridge to the stock tonearm, some people wouldn't need to go any further - and even at that level, would seriously challenge a Gyrodec and outperform it in certain areas.
However, there's no doubt that 'pimping' the Techy further pays major sonic dividends and can eventually turn it into a very serious turntable, able to compete with the best at almost any price. Martin T is also right: as long as the superb Quartz-controlled D/D motor (and plinth) remain in the equation, it is still a Techy, as those items are what give it its inherent sonic 'DNA'... :exactly:
Marco.
I seem to recall I had a standard 1210 on one of your visits to Jerry Towers - you seemed to quite enjoy it then ..... Dire Straits? :)
I enjoyed the Dire Straits? I very rarely do... must have been in a good mood:)
Seriously it was OK but obviously not top flight. However, considering the cost of the Techie setup to play OK through your speakers... nay bad.
Martin T is also right: as long as the superb Quartz-controlled D/D motor (and plinth) remain in the equation, it is still a Techy, as those items are what give it its inherent sonic 'DNA'... :exactly:
Marco.
Sweet. Deluded. But sweet...:)
Not deluded at all, dude; merely factual, based on years of experience of owning and using one! :)
Marco.
Sweet. Deluded. But sweet...:)
I think you're too hung up on what it is or what it's called. A modded Techie is just that, it doesn't need a name. It's also perfectly fair to compare it with a more expensive Michell of any persuasion. They do things differently, that's for sure, but the comparison is fun.
jandl100
11-06-2013, 20:15
Sweet. Deluded. But sweet...:)
Well, I think you do need to hear a properly pimped Techie afore ye make up your mind.
You like super-fast transients and slam - those TTs deliver, big time.
Tbh, having heard MartinT's in his system, it's not what I would look for as ideal, but I can certainly hear why the PTFs (Pimped Techie Fanboys) get so excited by, and devoted to, them. In their own way, they are very special indeed.
Audio Al
11-06-2013, 20:17
(Pimped Techie Fanboys)
Nearly spat my tea out :eek: I thought it said fatboys :D
Tbh, having heard MartinT's in his system, it's not what I would look for as ideal, but I can certainly hear why the PTFs (Pimped Techie Fanboys) get so excited by, and devoted to, them.
You like super-fast transients and slam - those TTs deliver, big time.
Indeed... However, strap an SPU onto one, and a different arm, not to mention add a lurvely toob phono stage into the mix, and modded Techies do all of what you've described, plus a shed-load of other things, too!! ;)
Marco.
Oh gawd don't take me so seriously chaps I was only joking...
I'm sure a fully pimped Techie is great. There are many other turntables I think I'd ather have though - not necessarily on SQ grounds. TBH the amount I listen to vinyl these days isn't a lot, but if I were to change I'd want something that looks excellent and probably sounds more than good enough for its likely usage.
Trouble is, most of the TTs that look great, have great engineering and "gimme" factor cost mega bucks. So I think I am relatively safe with my old Gyro whatsit:)
Ths ceap wirles kybard is drivng m mad.
Oh gawd don't take me so seriously chaps I was only joking...
That's what happens when you bandy about the word "deluded" ;)
Marco.
This afternoon l went to my friend who manages an audio shop which l pop into from time to time to chat with him, in the demo room he had a set up Gyro with a Rega £798 phono stage,mega bucks electronics ( Chord Electronics KEF Reference speakers) in a fantastic room that had been well treated acoustically on board the Gyro was its standard PSU Rega RB303/Ortofon Rhondo Red, l have to say l was bowled over by the sound, warm, full, very organic and very involving, l was listening to records for an hour and a half and eventually had to go to do some shopping:lol:
Thing l was surprised at was how good the Gyro sounded- but how much of what l heard was due to the mega bucks electronics/ speakers and treated dem room:scratch:
Last time l heard a Gyro was a long time ago, and from memory this version was quite a step up from that- a bloody good sound!
This afternoon l went to my friend who manages an audio shop which l pop into from time to time to chat with him, in the demo room he had a set up Gyro with a Rega £798 phono stage,mega bucks electronics ( Chord Electronics KEF Reference speakers) in a fantastic room that had been well treated acoustically on board the Gyro was its standard PSU Rega RB303/Ortofon Rhondo Red, l have to say l was bowled over by the sound, warm, full, very organic and very involving, l was listening to records for an hour and a half and eventually had to go to do some shopping:lol:
Thing l was surprised at was how good the Gyro sounded- but how much of what l heard was due to the mega bucks electronics/ speakers and treated dem room:scratch:
Last time l heard a Gyro was a long time ago, and from memory this version was quite a step up from that- a bloody good sound!
You'd need to go a LONG way (ie megabucks) to better a TRICKED up Gyro...really good arm/cart and phonostage, modded PSU and there's still little to significantly better one imho. As for the looks...it's 50% of the reason I have one :)
I have access to all sorts of decks but I've yet to be tempted away from the Gyro. I have a well sorted 401 with a decent arm but still prefer the Gyro to that. Personal taste perhaps but that's the beauty of vinyl replay...no faceless black boxes with zero tactility or zero aesthetic appeal. The looks and appreciation of the engineering for me are all part of the appeal. Some prefer the Technics..fair do...it matters not one iota.
It's a damn good turntable, Andy, so you shouldn't be so shocked! Next time, take your Techy along, and do a direct comparison with the Gyro in the same system.
I do this sort of thing all the time with my own T/T. It's the only way you learn something new, when taking your 'known reference' into an alien environment and seeing how it stacks up in that context! :)
Now and again it's good to leave the cosiness of one's comfort zone... ;)
Marco.
StanleyB
03-01-2014, 18:40
The looks and appreciation of the engineering for me are all part of the appeal.
That's the main reason why I still have my Micro Seiki DDX-1000.
I have yet to hear a tricked out Techie, have only heard a KAB SL-1200 in a non familiar system some time ago, and that didn't leave any particular impression at all.
As i recently have become a Michell fan boi i must add my view too! :)
The Gyro SE that recently replaced my TecnoDec was a revelation and a really big step forward sonically. It's also one of the most transparent TT's i've had the pleasure of enjoying in my home!
Responds very clearly to tweaking and tuning, as well as different carts and arms.
But, i was obviously seduced by the charm and audio quality of the Michells as i jumped at a rare opportunity in Sweden; An Orbe SE was put up for sale in my part of the woods and i couldn't resist to try it out!
So right now an Orbe is rubbing shoulders with my Gyro and i'm having issues with letting the Gyro go... ;)
It is so pleasureable to look at as well as sound wise it's hard to sell it!
There is no doubt the Orbe spanks it's butt but it does look better than the stealth bomber look of the Orbe.
Regards Mike
It's a damn good turntable, Andy, so you shouldn't be so shocked! Next time, take your Techy along, and do a direct comparison with the Gyro in the same system.
I do this sort of thing all the time with my own T/T. It's the only way you learn something new, when taking your 'known reference' into an alien environment and seeing how it stacks up in that context! :)
Now and again it's good to leave the cosiness of one's comfort zone... ;)
Marco.
Marco a friend has a Gyro round the corner which l going to listen to soon to confirm l am not going mad:mental::lol:, as my only concern was the aforementioned megabucks electronics/speakers and acoustically treated room and how much impact it had upon what l was hearing, l must say l was taken aback as to how good the Gyro sounded and looked..... M mmmmm those weights.:stalks:
For those who haven't heard a tricked out Techie, here's Marco's. Volume to 11, naturally! Shot by your truly Scalford 2011.
BTW: I'm not really suggesting you can assess its quality from the video...:D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odlrzwQekoM
julesd68
03-01-2014, 22:34
Thing l was surprised at was how good the Gyro sounded- but how much of what l heard was due to the mega bucks electronics/ speakers and treated dem room:scratch:
What's the old hi-fi adage - 'garbage in, garbage out'? Surely this means the Gyro is doing it's job properly ...
I had a fully tricked out Gyro SE with Orbe platter and the updated Never connected motor and supply, plus black tac for the chassis. It can easily be beaten and in my case the winner was a 40+ year old GL99 in a plywood box! ;)
It's a damn good turntable, Andy, so you shouldn't be so shocked! Next time, take your Techy along, and do a direct comparison with the Gyro in the same system.
I do this sort of thing all the time with my own T/T. It's the only way you learn something new, when taking your 'known reference' into an alien environment and seeing how it stacks up in that context! :)
Now and again it's good to leave the cosiness of one's comfort zone... ;)
Marco.
Thinking about it Marco that is a good idea.:doh:
mega bucks electronics ( Chord Electronics KEF Reference speakers)
Nice one, Andy. And people say that Chord electronics sound hard, cold etc. Little do they know :eyebrows:
I had a fully tricked out Gyro SE with Orbe platter and the updated Never connected motor and supply, plus black tac for the chassis. It can easily be beaten and in my case the winner was a 40+ year old GL99 in a plywood box! ;)
Well, that certainly doesn't seem to be TGW's opinion (Chris), who owns both T/Ts and has heard them at length in his two (rather different) systems! ;)
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
04-01-2014, 16:50
The Gyro and the G99 have some different strengths. The Gyro has astonishing imaging capability and this is something which I feel is lost when you add the Orbe gubbins to it. I've noted this every time I've heard one with the heavy platter, which is why I've never invested in the upgrade kit. The G99 can't match that ability either.
Well when I got my densodamp/arm damping kit/Orbe platter I was using ML Ascents/a Descent.
I kept switching twixt platters for a while. The Orbe platter 100% definitely gave better bass definition. I also got the impression there was less feedback from vibration with all the Orbe ish type upgrades. The sound was more relaxed and natural.
It just depends what you like/what suits the tonal balance of your system best IMHO. A standard Gyro IS more exciting than an Orbified one, if that's what your after. But I think it is more exciting purely because technically, it is worse.
Choose your poison.
Buying an Orbe platter isn't such a bad idea - sometimes it is cool just to switch platters just for a change. Though ultimately I just stopped using the Gyro platter, so I sold it. For the money I got, I should have kept it TBH.
The Gyro and the G99 have some different strengths. The Gyro has astonishing imaging capability and this is something which I feel is lost when you add the Orbe gubbins to it. I've noted this every time I've heard one with the heavy platter, which is why I've never invested in the upgrade kit. The G99 can't match that ability either.
Interesting, Chris. What, in your opinion, are the strengths of the G99 over those of the Gyro?
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
04-01-2014, 17:42
I'm afraid not going to get too drawn into this Marco, because at the moment, I can't isolate the properties of the G99 from the system - i.e. G99 plus the Decca arm and cartridge. However, there is no escaping the undeniable sense of natural flow and immediacy. Some of the latter is certainly down to the Decca, but to what extent, I'm not sure. I also like the way that there is no unnecessary bleeding of one note into the next when instruments play fast runs or passages.
All things that are regularly touted as advantages of other drive systems over rubber belts - and as we often note, there is no fundamental right or wrong way, just different approaches offering different mixtures and proportions of strengths and weaknesses.
The Grand Wazoo
04-01-2014, 17:51
Buying an Orbe platter isn't such a bad idea
Trouble is, the kit doesn't make a Gyro into an Orbe but it does cause it to lose the very characteristic that I value in the Gyro. Nothing to do with excitement for me, or bass.
At the risk of throwing a spanner into the TT comparison debate, is it at all consitent or meaningful to be comparing different decks to the Gyro AND being able to differentiate how much of the supoosed differences are MAINLY due to the decks and not in contex of cartridge/tonearm/phonostage/amplifier not to mention set-up, cart alignment and position in room? :hmm: I dont think so.
The number of times I've heard arguments about someone's opinion of a TT verses another TT when it transpires that the cartridge/tonearm/phonostage/amplifier/speakers and room were all different!
It really only becomes a viable or meaningful comparison imho in context with the exact same system using the same components playing the same recording/pressing or how can one possibly isolate and ascribe differences?
In my own case where I was fortunate enough to do this type of comparison, using a decent enough recording as a reference, I have compared the Gyro to P25 (TechnoarmA on Gyro/P25) and 401 (ditto) all running the exact same set up with carts etc. I cannot speak for the techie as I've not yet has opportunity to do a smilar comparison in context, but the Gyro destroyed the P25 and 401 on low noise floor/detail/channel separation and dynamics.
To my mind, a lot of chat about TT's seems down to the personal preferences of those doing the chatting and perhaps what they've listened to in different systems leaving different impressions, but very few are in anywhere near a meaningful context for a fair comparison. I once liked a Clearaudio TT I heard (:lol:) but it only happened once. I once really liked a Roksan Radius 5, but when I next heard one (same cart) in a more revealing system, it was several pegs lower in my estimation, which is when I auditioned (in my own system) and bought a Gyro.
The Grand Wazoo
04-01-2014, 18:02
Context - presackly!
That's what I meant by my comment about separating the TT from the system.
Its not really a simple question as to which is best as you would need to get both decks with the same arm and cart on in the same system to do a direct A-B comparison and who is gonna do that?
One of my techies has the 309 on and sounds grand, I have a V but have not fitted it yet but will be doing soon as I sold the 309 yesterday, I expect it to sound good and expect it would for Mr Saunders, I would try to get a techie that already has all the bells and whistles on then there is no faffing about to do other than for the arm and cart!
The last Orbe I heard was at a hi-fi show and it sounded good but I prefer the Techie (and my Clearaudio Innovation)
At the risk of throwing a spanner into the TT comparison debate, is it at all consitent or meaningful to be comparing different decks to the Gyro AND being able to differentiate how much of the supoosed differences are MAINLY due to the decks and not in contex of cartridge/tonearm/phonostage/amplifier not to mention set-up, cart alignment and position in room? :hmm: I dont think so.
The number of times I've heard arguments about someone's opinion of a TT verses another TT when it transpires that the cartridge/tonearm/phonostage/amplifier/speakers and room were all different!
It really only becomes a viable or meaningful comparison imho in context with the exact same system using the same components playing the same recording/pressing or how can one possibly isolate and ascribe differences?
In my own case where I was fortunate enough to do this type of comparison, using a decent enough recording as a reference, I have compared the Gyro to P25 (TechnoarmA on Gyro/P25) and 401 (ditto) all running the exact same set up with carts etc. I cannot speak for the techie as I've not yet has opportunity to do a smilar comparison in context, but the Gyro destroyed the P25 and 401 on low noise floor/detail/channel separation and dynamics.
To my mind, a lot of chat about TT's seems down to the personal preferences of those doing the chatting and perhaps what they've listened to in different systems leaving different impressions, but very few are in anywhere near a meaningful context for a fair comparison. I once liked a Clearaudio TT I heard (:lol:) but it only happened once. I once really liked a Roksan Radius 5, but when I next heard one (same cart) in a more revealing system, it was several pegs lower in my estimation, which is when I auditioned (in my own system) and bought a Gyro.
Interesting as IMO a 401 when properly set up would easily outperform the gyro as long as its in a slate plinth of course!
Interesting as IMO a 401 when properly set up would easily outperform the gyro as long as its in a slate plinth of course!
I don't agree. I've had both for years now and irrespective of what plinth is used, I've yet to hear any 401 which can run as silently as the Gyro. I like the 401 and it certainly has its strengths but in my system, the Gyro betters it for my tastes. It should come as no surprise given the design differences; the Gyro has an infinitely better decoupling of motor (hence noise) and a better bearing arrangement imho. My 401 has been well looked after and serviced so is a good example. Each to their own though as plenty prefer the 401. I can only speak as I find it myself. As for "easily outperforming", sorry but again I find that one of those meaningless out of context terminologies. It needs putting into context and as you yourself have said, needs putting into context with an AB comparison, but you have also said "who's going to do that?" ;)
One of my techies has the 309 on and sounds grand, I have a V but have not fitted it yet but will be doing soon as I sold the 309 yesterday, I expect it to sound good and expect it would for Mr Saunders...
Who he? :scratch:
I shall comment more on this thread later, as some interesting points have been made.
Marco.
As for "easily outperforming", sorry but again I find that one of those meaningless out of context terminologies. It needs putting into context and as you yourself have said, needs putting into context with an AB comparison, but you have also said "who's going to do that?" ;)
Well, Paul, as I said earlier to Andy:
It's a damn good turntable, Andy [the Gyro], so you shouldn't be so shocked! Next time, take your Techy along, and do a direct comparison with the Gyro in the same system.
Hopefully, he'll take my advice and report back... ;)
It may not be a perfect A/B comparison, but it'll certainly give a flavour of what's going on.
Marco.
Well, that certainly does seem to be TGW's opinion (Chris), who owns both T/Ts and has heard them at length in his two (rather different) systems! ;)
Marco.
:D and I wasn't the only one....
The Gyro and the G99 have some different strengths. The Gyro has astonishing imaging capability and this is something which I feel is lost when you add the Orbe gubbins to it. I've noted this every time I've heard one with the heavy platter, which is why I've never invested in the upgrade kit. The G99 can't match that ability either.
The Orbe 'gubbins' enhances the so called imaging capabilities as does the NC motor and PSU. The GL99 easily matches this and adds weight and drive and authority to the presentation and is far more involving to boot.
Trouble is, the kit doesn't make a Gyro into an Orbe but it does cause it to lose the very characteristic that I value in the Gyro. Nothing to do with excitement for me, or bass.
Err so whats the difference? Motor, platter, Motor, PSU, Bearing or Black tac?
Context - presackly!
That's what I meant by my comment about separating the TT from the system.
That make no sense at all. Synergy is everything.
...but the Gyro destroyed the P25 and 401 on low noise floor/detail/channel separation and dynamics.
Not IME, especially Dynamics!
Yes, the dynamics thing surprises me, too.
I like the Gyro for what it does, especially its renowned ability to cast a cavernous soundstage, but for sheer effortless, grin-inducing dynamics (if Paul is taking the same meaning from the word, as you and I are), IME, idlers and D/Ds knock ALL (low and medium-mass) belt-drive T/Ts, not just the Gyro, into a cocked hat!
Therefore, perhaps Paul could clarify exactly what he means by 'dynamics'? :)
Marco.
Having owned a Gyro se, a full blown Orbe ,a few 301/401's ,lenco's and d/d's I cant say that one system stands out in Dynamics or anything else , they can all perform equally well, the Michell decks are beautiful to look at, perform very well, are very realistically priced, well serviced with dealers, and a very nice company to deal with direct , what is there to criticise
Paul
The Grand Wazoo
05-01-2014, 00:46
That make no sense at all. Synergy is everything.
Sorry, but that is just not the case when you are trying to isolate the influence of one part of a record playing system containing a TT, arm and cartridge - as three of us have pointed out: like must be compared with like, otherwise the exercise is futile.
I would agree, Chris, certainly with the point you're making to Neal.
However, years of experience gained listening to a multitude of different equipment has also allowed me, to some extent, to identify the 'sonic signature' of a T/T, even without being able to compare like with like, particularly if I am familiar with the arm and/or cartridge, from their use in other contexts - and I don't think I'm alone in that respect.
I would never come to a conclusive opinion on any T/T based on that, but I'm usually able to form some sort of a reasonable impression. I apply that process at hi-fi shows and on any other occasion where I don't have the luxury of carrying out comparisons more rigorously.
If we all needed to have identical arms and cartridges fitted to every turntable we compared, before forming some sort of impression of them, then long before that happened, we'd be old and wrinkly!! ;)
Marco.
Sorry, but that is just not the case when you are trying to isolate the influence of one part of a record playing system containing a TT, arm and cartridge - as three of us have pointed out: like must be compared with like, otherwise the exercise is futile.
...but *that is* futile. As Marco just alluded to, not all arms are suited to all decks (many won't physically fit) and many cartridges only perform at their best in certain arms....again, synergy is everything ;)
I think that context and synergy are equally important, but in different ways.
The latter, however, can only be realised in practice, and unfortunately, for reasons already outlined, that isn't always practical or possible in situations where some sort of assessment is required.
Therefore, one always bears context in mind, but the achievement of synergy is where context is followed by practice :)
Marco.
Who he? :scratch:
I shall comment more on this thread later, as some interesting points have been made.
Marco.
That will be me Marco.:lol: l am going to take the Techie along to compare with the Gyro and will report back in due course:)
l
Nice one, Andy. And people say that Chord electronics sound hard, cold etc. Little do they know :eyebrows:
Martin the system sounded lovely, a sweet warm all day listen kind of sound, but it was not cheap.......
The Grand Wazoo
05-01-2014, 12:17
...but *that is* futile. As Marco just alluded to, not all arms are suited to all decks (many won't physically fit) and many cartridges only perform at their best in certain arms....again, synergy is everything ;)
If we all needed to have identical arms and cartridges fitted to every turntable we compared, before forming some sort of impression of them, then long before that happened, we'd be old and wrinkly!! ;)
Well yes, but the questions posed in this particular thread have been specifically about turntables, rather than particular tt/arm/cartridge combinations. Had it been the other way around, we wouldn't be getting hung up on this point, would we?
That will be me Marco.:lol: l am going to take the Techie along to compare with the Gyro and will report back in due course...
l
Ah, so that's yer other name, apart from daftee? Noted! :D
Yup, it'll be interesting to discover what that comparison reveals, given that you come across as a pretty straighforward and unbiased sort of chap :)
Marco.
Well yes, but the questions posed in this particular thread have been specifically about turntables, rather than particular tt/arm/cartridge combinations. Had it been the other way around, we wouldn't be getting hung up on this point, would we?
Perhaps not, however I was kind of also referring to your situation with the Gyro vs. the G99.
No offence, dude, but I reckon that with enough extended listening to both T/Ts in my system, playing music that I know intimately well, I could get a pretty good handle on what they were doing (based on what I explained earlier about experience), regardless of the fact that they were both fitted with different arms and cartridges! :eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
Ah, so that's yer other name, apart from daftee? Noted! :D
Yup, it'll be interesting to discover what that comparison reveals, given that you come across as a pretty straighforward and unbiased sort of chap :)
Marco.
Thanks Marco- what are you after?:D
Depends wotcha offerin', sweet cheeks? :bum:
Marco.
Trouble is, the kit doesn't make a Gyro into an Orbe but it does cause it to lose the very characteristic that I value in the Gyro. Nothing to do with excitement for me, or bass.
Well bass definition is important when you have huge great planar magnetic bass panels. Any bass issues and you it hear it straight away.
When I asked the chap at Michell what the Orbe platter did, he said it gave better bass definition. When I got it, I knew exactly what he was talking about. He didn't bullshit - it just has better bass definition than the standard platter period.
Anyway, as I said, choose your poison. If you prefer the Gyro in your system that is all that matters.
Depends wotcha offerin', sweet cheeks? :bum:
Marco.
Saucy!:mex:
It's a damn good turntable, Andy, so you shouldn't be so shocked! Next time, take your Techy along, and do a direct comparison with the Gyro in the same system.
I do this sort of thing all the time with my own T/T. It's the only way you learn something new, when taking your 'known reference' into an alien environment and seeing how it stacks up in that context! :)
Now and again it's good to leave the cosiness of one's comfort zone... ;)
Marco.
Well today l did as Marco suggested, got out of my death bed(man flu) and done the deed;
Same electronics/ speakers Chrord SPM2650 integrated amplifier/ Rega Aria Phono stage / KEF 205/2 loudspeakers, some very expensive Chord cabling, all in a well acoustically treated room.
The Gyro was the base model with a Rega303 arm Ortofon Rhondo Red
My Techie; See system details.
Music; Motoway City- Hawkwind ( from the album "Levitation")
Recall the beginning....... A journey from Eden LPLP Steve Miller Band ( from 1972 and in my humble opinion is their best)
Hawkwind- Hawkwind ( Their debut LP from 1969)
Steppenwolf- The Second LP
So we started with the Gyro as this was already set up( good time management) and again a super clean, quiet, expansive sound with great big images and great tonal colours, the guitars on "Motorway City" came across as clear as a bell and very musical!:) Everything l threw at the Gyro l could never really catch it out, also the Gyro was very quiet on surface noise, this was good as some of my chardee records are noisy, as l pointed previously the last time l heard a Gyro it did not sound as good as this.
Next up was my modestly pimped Techie, mmmm the soundstage shrunk a little and a tad more flatter, but had a slightly fuller and marginally more cohesive sound, but we are talking very small differences indeed, however where the Gyro did score heavily was in clarity and cleanliness of the sound- which as l previously stated was not how l remember the Gyro from before:scratch: and that is about it really.....
l cannot help but think that Marco may have been right when he said the SME/Denon DL103 was a mismatch?
Conclusion l have brought a base Gyro which has an upgrade path, on this will go my SME V and a cartridge to be determined-maybe an Ortofon Cadanza Red (something in that price range- open to recommendations on this.
Keeping my Techie but with a stock arm as l feel this does some seriously musical things! This will be getting a new poncy paint job, and a new MM cartridge.
So all in all everybody is a winner!
Just hope the Gyro sounds as good in my room as it sounded in the showroom.
Glad you found a path that satisfies, Andy. I doubt you will go wrong with a Gyro.
A couple of observations:
1. Your Technics is missing the one upgrade it's crying out for to eliminate exactly the flattening of perspectives you heard: a Mike New bearing
2. I agree with Marco that the SME series are not well suited to the Technics. As an ex-owner of a IV, I can understand what you heard
First of all, Andy, thanks for taking the time and trouble to do the comparison, especially when you weren't feeling well. Respect! As I said before, these sorts of comparisons always throw up something interesting and allow one to learn something new - and here was no exception.
The exercise has shown that the Gyro (as I stated before) is a very good turntable, and in some areas betters the Technics. I'm sure that would've been the case even if I'd taken my own turntable along.
However, you must also remember that the Gyro was on 'home territory', as it were, and so the partnering system would've been set up to optimise it, which wasn't the case for your own turntable. What I would recommend, if the other chap is up for it, is to reverse the circumstances next time, and ask him to bring the Gyro to your place.
That, I suspect, will level the playing field somewhat and allow both of you to hear what the Technics does well, when used in a complimentary system, and perhaps highlight limitations in the Gyro. I also agree that an SME V is not a good match for a DL-103, and TBH should be partnered with a cartridge more able to exploit its sonic potential. Fitting a more suitable cartridge to the SME would definitely go some way to redressing the balance between both turntables.
Martin is also correct in that you really need an MN bearing fitted, in order for the Technics to be compared with other high-quality turntables, as the stock one significantly limits its performance, which is why I always recommend that upgrading it should be one of the first major modifications carried out to the Technics, once something has been done in terms of externalising and/or upgrading the stock PSU. Initially, getting it out from underneath the platter and into its own box is good enough, until funds permit for something better, during which time the next money spent should be on an MN bearing.
Anyway, how you proceed now is up to you. You've obviously got a base Gyro to begin an upgrade path with, so it'll be interesting to see how that pans out. Your SME V will certainly be an ideal match. As for a cartridge, one of the Ortofon Cadenzas would be good, as would something like an OC-9 or a Lyra Argo (i), both of which work very well on an SME V. Then perhaps send your Technics arm to Audio Origami for some fettling, and fit your 103 to that (with a suitable high-mass headshell), or invest in a Jelco SA-750.
Once you get both T/Ts set up properly, and you familiarise yourself with them at length in your own system, you'll be in a better position to form some proper conclusions. Until then, enjoy the journey! :cool:
Marco.
Marco l will be indeed keeping one of my Techies! Watch this space, all in all it was an enjoyable afternoon, and l must confess that l hope the Gyro sounds as good at home as it sounded at the shop, the MN Bearing will have to wait a while, however more than one person has told me this is what l need!:doh: l also feel that my Techie in stock form sounds really good, thus me keeping one. l am not jumping ship just yet.:lol:
PS; The system set up was not with any particular medium etc in mind it just happened to be the best and most revealing gear they had there by a country mile.
Noted, dude, on all counts! Keep us posted on how things develop with both T/Ts :)
Marco.
Will do Marco, just got to decide on cartridge, no bright cartridges thank you very much:lol: thinking Cadanza Red or Benz Micro Ace..................:eek:
The Black Adder
11-01-2014, 12:24
Hi Andy. I used to have a Gyro... see pic:
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/musical_submarine/archive%202012/Michell/ResizeofDSC03783.jpg
I was using an Ortofon Rondo Red with superb results...
Good decision Andy and I'm sure you won't be disappointed. The Gyro and SME are a good match. Cart-wise, the 2M Black would be a safe bet, the Benz Glider works well with the "V" too. I currently use a Zyx with my SME and that's a great match too; very impressed with the results. Whatever you decide, the combo of deck and arm should be able to get the best from most cartridges.
Hi Andy. I used to have a Gyro... see pic:
http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq295/musical_submarine/archive%202012/Michell/ResizeofDSC03783.jpg
I was using an Ortofon Rondo Red with superb results...
Joe that is much the as the Gyro l heard ( minus the clamp) and it sounded superb! Hence my hankering for going up the food chain a little ie the Cadanza Red, but cannot find bundles about it on the net........
The Michell clamp is worth getting, Andy.
The Black Adder
11-01-2014, 12:45
The Michell clamp is worth getting, Andy.
+1 - Should come with one if I remember rightly... ?
My first deck was a Gyro with a SME 309 I pimped it up to a Orbe which I preferred due to its better bass then moved the to a VPI HW19 MK 4
The Michell clamp is worth getting, Andy.
Hi Martin,l already have one purchased from our illustrious leader:youtheman::lol:
Pretty sure that someone on the wam was selling a cadenza red cart brand new for £500, this was before Christmas and I've never noticed a sold post since.
Pretty sure that someone on the wam was selling a cadenza red cart brand new for £500, this was before Christmas and I've never noticed a sold post since.
Yes l saw that Tony and it is tempting- just would like to know how they sound- not much on the web regarding this matter.:scratch:
Wakefield Turntables
11-01-2014, 13:41
Get the cadenza black, you know you want to, and you you will be doing some of this :rock:
Yes l saw that Tony and it is tempting- just would like to know how they sound- not much on the web regarding this matter.:scratch:
At the time I was thinking that it was a much better proposition than Clive's 2m Black for a £100 more, believe those carts retail in the £800 ballpark.
Are the reds not at the bottom of the candenza range, i.e bronze,blue, Black etc?
I'm sure I read something along those lines meaning that it was above the 2mm black in the range.
Tony
Surely a fantastic buy now as the price is down to £475 from last Monday (btw I don't know the seller).
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?94589-FS-Ortofon-Cadenza-Red-only-15-hours&highlight=cadenza
Andy, just one thought, can you confirm if you're using an external PSU with your Techy? If so, which one is it, as I can't see it listed in your signature...?
Marco.
Andy, just one thought, can you confirm if you're using an external PSU with your Techy? If so, which one is it, as I can't see it listed in your signature...?
Marco.
No external PSU Marco.
Ah...... In that case, that puts the results of your comparison with the Gyro in a rather different light!
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
11-01-2014, 17:40
....only if we know which power supply was feeding the Gyro!
....only if we know which power supply was feeding the Gyro!
See posts 84 and 128 where the phrases "standard PSU" and "base PSU" are used.:lol:
....only if we know which power supply was feeding the Gyro!
Lol... The point is, a Techy sans external PSU, and with a stock bearing, in strictly high-end terms, is quite badly handicapped.
Marco.
Congrats on the Gyro Andy they are a lovely deck ,great sounding and exquisitely made , and has been said they go nice with SME arms,
being a series V user for 20+ years I have always really enjoyed VD Hul carts with it ,
enjoy
Paul
Congrats on the Gyro Andy they are a lovely deck ,great sounding and exquisitely made , and has been said they go nice with SME arms,
being a series V user for 20+ years I have always really enjoyed VD Hul carts with it ,
enjoy
Paul
Thanks Paul, will try to demo some cartridges this week.................
There's someone on the Wam selling a Cadenza Black for £800, along with some other fantastic stuff, pick up from Scalford only but I doubt that would be a problem as I'm sure that some kind soul would compete the deal on your behalf.
There's someone on the Wam selling a Cadenza Black for £800, along with some other fantastic stuff, pick up from Scalford only but I doubt that would be a problem as I'm sure that some kind soul would compete the deal on your behalf.
l might need an Orbe for that cartridge:eek:
l might need an Orbe for that cartridge:eek:
Some real nice stuff here Andy.
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?99963-Turntable-bits-amp-bobs-Collection-at-SCALFORD
337alant
17-01-2014, 16:00
Im using my Gyrodeck with an AT33EV and it sounds very nice
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5503/11213855903_f956623303_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/11213855903/)
. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/11213855903/) by 337alant (http://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr
I prefer my Ortofon Kontrapunkt B on my 401 but not sure if its the cart or the turntable that sounds better, I will have to swap them over one day and see :eyebrows:
Alan
That's nice, Alan. I'm not surprised that it sounds good!
I'm not normally a big fan of AT or Lyra cartridges (finding them a little too bright and 'hi-fi' sounding), *but* on the Gyro or Orbe, particularly when an SME V is in the equation, they seem to synergise rather well with the sonic characteristics of the turntable :)
Incidentally, did you know that the AT-33 PTG has been re-released in MKII form: http://www.audiocubes2.com/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/13/products_id/605
That was probably my favourite AT cartridge of all! At that price, it's a serious bargain.
Marco.
337alant
17-01-2014, 16:20
Marko
Thanks for that info on the AT33PTG I tried to find one of them for months and finallygave up and bought the 33EV as there just wasent any available.
I haven't found the 33EV bright at all with a 100 ohm loading I actually found it a bit bland at first but the Audiomods arm has really opened it up
Alan
Marko
Thanks for that info on the AT33PTG I tried to find one of them for months and finallygave up and bought the 33EV as there just wasent any available.
No worries. I thought that might be the case... Most 33EV users I know are ex-33PTG owners or admirers, who were no longer able to obtain one! Audio Cubes are also superb to deal with, so buy from them with confidence :)
I haven't found the 33EV bright at all with a 100 ohm loading I actually found it a bit bland at first but the Audiomods arm has really opened it up
Fair enough. The partnering phono stage, and all sorts, has so much influence on these matters. The most important thing is you like what you're hearing, so enjoy! :cool:
Marco.
That's nice, Alan. I'm not surprised that it sounds good!
I'm not normally a big fan of AT or Lyra cartridges (finding them a little too bright and 'hi-fi' sounding), *but* on the Gyro or Orbe, particularly when an SME V is in the equation, they seem to synergise rather well with the sonic characteristics of the turntable :)
Incidentally, did you know that the AT-33 PTG has been re-released in MKII form: http://www.audiocubes2.com/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/13/products_id/605
That was probably my favourite AT cartridge of all! At that price, it's a serious bargain.
Marco.
Just come back from a listening session fronted by an Orbe/SME V/ Lyra Delos...........
And your thoughts were, daftee? :)
Marco.
I still have a Mk. I AT33PTG and it's a great performer with a more solid, less lightweight balance than the more common OC9.
Mmmm that depends.:popcorn:
Lol - spit it out! :lol:
Marco.
I still have a Mk. I AT33PTG and it's a great performer with a more solid, less lightweight balance than the more common OC9.
Might be fun hearing how it sounds through the Vida... Have you got it mounted on a spare headshell, to save disturbing the Shelter? :)
Marco.
Oh yes, it'll be easy to slot in and try.
I'd give it a go - you might be surprised at the results... ;)
Marco.
Oh I know exactly what to expect and it'll sound pretty good with a slight upper-mid sheen. Not as good all-round as the Shelter and certainly not as potent, but very good indeed for the price.
After a ridiculously long wait, she will be here tomorrow, :yesbruv:and hopefully play beautiful music for an hour- then l am off to night shift :(:eek:
Audio Al
28-03-2014, 16:22
After a ridiculously long wait, she will be here tomorrow, :yesbruv:and hopefully play beautiful music for an hour- then l am off to night shift :(:eek:
Roll 1 on Tuesday 10am :D
Enjoy you night shift ;)
What is happening Tuesday?;)
Audio Al
28-03-2014, 16:27
You 2 Know :ner:
Just come back from a listening session fronted by an Orbe/SME V/ Lyra Delos...........
Have you been visiting my home? ;) I think that's a little rude, considering my absence! :D
I'll join Marco: Spit it out! Please!
And congrats to the delivery tomorrow, enjoy!
Atb Mike
The Barbarian
29-03-2014, 05:35
Well bass definition is important when you have huge great planar magnetic bass panels. Any bass issues and you it hear it straight away.
When I asked the chap at Michell what the Orbe platter did, he said it gave better bass definition. When I got it, I knew exactly what he was talking about. He didn't bullshit - it just has better bass definition than the standard platter period.
Anyway, as I said, choose your poison. If you prefer the Gyro in your system that is all that matters.
I can believe this because by just adding a 5mm acrylic matt to my deck the bass improves without a doubt. However i would deffo choose the 'Gyro' over the other un.
Velly 3 funny Marco.
On a more serious note, l am a tad apprehensive as l have come across a system with my Techie which sounds pretty darn good.:doh:
Audio Al
29-03-2014, 08:16
Velly 3 funny Marco
:scratch: I 4 dont get this :scratch:
Maybe Mandy's seen her new name? :D
Marco.
Rush2112
06-04-2014, 07:21
Well I am new here and to say I was intrigued at the idea of a pimped DJ deck being any serious match for a audiophile turntable such as a Gyrode. I guess the likelihood of any sort of back to back demo is unlikely so it's down to what others think and any sort of demo you can find. For my part I always lined the Gyro but even in SE form there is a limit to its ultimate capabilities and a limit to how much more you can get from upgrading arm and cartridge, SME IV is really the limit before diminishing returns are an issue. If you are serious about upgrading there are more options than the Orbe from Michell. Try and listen to the Townshend Rock 7 or if funds allow SME 10. Happy listening !
Well I am new here and to say I was intrigued at the idea of a pimped DJ deck being any serious match for a audiophile turntable such as a Gyrode.
Wash they mouth out, Mark... "DJ deck", indeed!! ;)
The punishment for your gross misundertanding of reality is to read and absorb the whole of the Techiepedia section of AoS, whereupon you wil learn the error of your ways, or simply accept a royal spanking instead from our assembled learned brothers of the clan of Matsushita Electric :spank: :spank:
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
06-04-2014, 13:00
Well I am new here and to say I was intrigued at the idea of a pimped DJ deck being any serious match for a audiophile turntable such as a Gyrode.
I laughed my tits off when I read that sentence.
Rush2112
06-04-2014, 18:35
Seriously, any upgrades that make a real difference to any kit are ok in my book and that includes Technics turntables. However, there are some fundamental elements of design in the majority of turntables in the affordable world that almost without exception favour belt drive over direct drive, suspension over dampening etc etc etc
prestonchipfryer
06-04-2014, 18:43
I laughed my tits off when I read that sentence.
I would have laughed my tits off if I had any. Instead I laughed my bollocks off.
Hi Mark,
Seriously, any upgrades that make a real difference to any kit are ok in my book and that includes Technics turntables. However, there are some fundamental elements of design in the majority of turntables in the affordable world that almost without exception favour belt drive over direct drive, suspension over dampening etc etc etc
Sure, but there are also some fundamental elements of turntable design that favour direct-drive: namely super-accurate speed stability (translated as pitch accuracy in music), due to high-quality D/D motors being more accomplished in that respect than the majority of their rubber-band counterparts.
However, it's best to avoid getting bogged down in absolutes and instead embrace the fact that in audio (and T/T design), just as in life, 'it's not what you've got, but how you use it'! ;)
Marco.
I would have laughed my tits off if I had any. Instead I laughed my bollocks off.
What are you talking about, sweetheart? You've got bigger paps than the Pap Queen of Papallonia!! :lol:
Marco.
Oi! This is my thread to celebrate my Gyrodec purchase- both are great decks- l know this because l own both.
...both are great decks- l know this because l own both.
I've always said so, daftee! ;)
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
06-04-2014, 19:18
Oi! This is my thread to celebrate my Gyrodec purchase- both are great decks- l know this because l own both.
ok andy I've put my moobs away. Congrats on getting the Gyrodec, twas the deck I used when I decided to buy my ATC's, its an excellent deck. If I had any space I'd have it as a 3rd deck.
prestonchipfryer
06-04-2014, 19:34
What are you talking about, sweetheart? You've got bigger paps than the Pap Queen of Papallonia!! :lol:
Marco.
I didn't think anyone would have noticed. :eyebrows:
I did, 'cos you know what they do for me, darling! :drool: :drool:
:bum:
Marco.
ok andy I've put my moobs away. Congrats on getting the Gyrodec, twas the deck I used when I decided to buy my ATC's, its an excellent deck. If I had any space I'd have it as a 3rd deck.
:)
prestonchipfryer
06-04-2014, 19:53
I did, 'cos you know what they do for me, darling! :drool: :drool:
:bum:
Marco.
You are teasing me. :kiss:
Rush2112
06-04-2014, 20:04
Congratulations on the purchase of the Gyrodec it is a great deck designed by John Michell who I met in the 90s at Chantry Audio and was very entertaining with his anecdotes of things he had done in his engineering career, certainly his legacy of great design and engineering lives on since his sad death about 10 years ago. I am sure he will be remembered more for his turntables and other hi-fi products than the fact he also made the eyes for C3po in Star Wars and many other film props!
The Barbarian
06-04-2014, 20:17
:D yep legendary TT manufacturer, I don't think im wrong in say they are the oldest operating UK TT manufacturer.Ive gone through hundreds of different TT's always landed back to Michell.
Congratulations on the purchase of the Gyrodec it is a great deck designed by John Michell who I met in the 90s at Chantry Audio and was very entertaining with his anecdotes of things he had done in his engineering career, certainly his legacy of great design and engineering lives on since his sad death about 10 years ago. I am sure he will be remembered more for his turntables and other hi-fi products than the fact he also made the eyes for C3po in Star Wars and many other film props!
Mark,
Why are you posting the exact same thing about Michell, as you've just done here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31675-Technics-SL-P720-CD-Player-For-Sale&p=540044#post540044
???
Marco.
Audio Al
06-04-2014, 20:33
Mark,
Why are you posting the exact same thing about Michell, as you've just done here: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?31675-Technics-SL-P720-CD-Player-For-Sale&p=540044#post540044
???
Marco.
It keeps you on your toes :lol:
Wakefield Turntables
06-04-2014, 20:48
to get his post count up?
The Barbarian
06-04-2014, 20:59
Because id have though he originally posted it in the wrong section!
It keeps you on your toes :lol:
Thought you were at Al?:scratch:
I laughed my tits off when I read that sentence.
'C Cup' an all
congratulations on the purchase of the gyrodec it is a great deck designed by john michell who i met in the 90s at chantry audio and was very entertaining with his anecdotes of things he had done in his engineering career, certainly his legacy of great design and engineering lives on since his sad death about 10 years ago. I am sure he will be remembered more for his turntables and other hi-fi products than the fact he also made the eyes for c3po in star wars and many other film props!hi,i beleive he worked with colin chapman,designing jim clarks suspension. Hi fi world said it.
twelvebears
30-11-2014, 08:17
Wow! Thanks for the posts, it would be a new Gyro, l had an Orbe years ago( l have not heard one in years) so my audio memory is unreliable, but l quite liked it if l recall, however once l got my E-bay special Techie in a way the musicality and solidty of sound shone through, there are some upgrades to the Techie l am not too keen on,ie the external PSU, as l said the bearing looks good and other internal mods, l doubt l would go to Marco ot Martin T levels!:lol: But l am leaning towards pimping the Techie after reading all your threads.........
I've not gone crazy with my Techie (yet) but have to disagree re the external PSU. I'd say it's essential if you use a MC and worthwhile regardless. Plus it's easy to do and depending on the PSU chosen, doesn't have to be that expensive.
Clive197
30-11-2014, 08:31
I run a reasonably tricked up Techie with a rather good (Expensive) MC cartridge, I don't have problems (honestly) with hum, noise or any other nasties from the internal standard PSU. One of the reasons for not changing the thing is that I'm incompetent the other is I suspect a little bit of the Emperors New Clothes syndrome. I have however put a Ferrite on the mains cable. Don't know if that actually does anything but..........
Frankyc2003
30-11-2014, 08:47
Actually externalising the PSU on my techie was the first thing I did. And as outlined somewhere else, the changes are not subtle.
I wouldn't say that the main reason for doing it is to combat hum, but simply to release the formidable potential the deck has.
A transformer is essentially a vibrating body, at very high frequency yes, but vibrating none the less. And what does a TT do? Picks up tiny little vibrations.
So it does make sense to remove it from the main body of the TT.
Stupid analogy, maybe, but it was like cleaning your windows. Suddenly, light (music) came flooding the room.
It doesn't need to be expensive. You could do it yourself provided you had time and patience. Or buy one of the many external PSU available around nowadays.
Clive197
30-11-2014, 09:08
Actually externalising the PSU on my techie was the first thing I did. And as outlined somewhere else, the changes are not subtle.
I wouldn't say that the main reason for doing it is to combat hum, but simply to release the formidable potential the deck has.
A transformer is essentially a vibrating body, at very high frequency yes, but vibrating none the less. And what does a TT do? Picks up tiny little vibrations.
So it does make sense to remove it from the main body of the TT.
Stupid analogy, maybe, but it was like cleaning your windows. Suddenly, light (music) came flooding the room.
It doesn't need to be expensive. You could do it yourself provided you had time and patience. Or buy one of the many external PSU available around nowadays.
Hum, was not my real point. Many if not most Techie owners on here have praised externalising the PSU and as David at MCRU can testify I have given very serious thought to buying a PSU but as I have said I'm incompetent re the installation of such a device. Furthermore my Techie sounds the bee's knees to my ears so I'm not getting stressed by not following the crowd. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Frankyc2003
30-11-2014, 09:21
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Totally, if it sounds good, that's all that matters. Besides your techie looks like pretty pimped up already, so no one can blame you for not giving it a proper go ;)
Stratmangler
30-11-2014, 09:39
Actually externalising the PSU on my techie was the first thing I did. And as outlined somewhere else, the changes are not subtle.
I wouldn't say that the main reason for doing it is to combat hum, but simply to release the formidable potential the deck has.
A transformer is essentially a vibrating body, at very high frequency yes, but vibrating none the less. And what does a TT do? Picks up tiny little vibrations.
So it does make sense to remove it from the main body of the TT.
Stupid analogy, maybe, but it was like cleaning your windows. Suddenly, light (music) came flooding the room.
It doesn't need to be expensive. You could do it yourself provided you had time and patience. Or buy one of the many external PSU available around nowadays.
Good point well made Franky.
The transformer's fundamental vibrational frequency is not all that high - it's 50Hz.
Of course there will be harmonics at decreasing amplitudes at 100Hz, 200Hz, 400Hz etc ......
Just simply externalising the original PSU removes a whole layer of hash IME.
And it's not subtle either :)
ListeningEar
07-12-2014, 01:22
A good contact to speak to is Peter at Deco Audio in Aylesbury, he has a customer who did a cost no object Techie upgrade with every conceivable high end upgrade out there. You may not like what you hear if you are jumping on the Techie upgrade band wagon. I have had more 1210's than most as I DJ'd for decades and personally feel any upgrade to this DJ only deck is a total waste of money....but each to their own.
Canetoad
07-12-2014, 04:19
In my opinion DJ'ing for decades would leave me less inclined to agree with your opinion of the Techie. I've heard plenty of decks at clubs and they all sound the same with thumping bass and little else of merit. My Techie sounds nothing like that!
Hi Craig,
A good contact to speak to is Peter at Deco Audio in Aylesbury, he has a customer who did a cost no object Techie upgrade with every conceivable high end upgrade out there. You may not like what you hear if you are jumping on the Techie upgrade band wagon. I have had more 1210's than most as I DJ'd for decades and personally feel any upgrade to this DJ only deck is a total waste of money....but each to their own.
First of all, I’m shocked at your ignorance.
As anyone informed knows, the Technics SL-1200 was NEVER built, at any stage, deliberately as a ‘DJ deck’. If you do some research, in terms of its origins in 1972, you’ll see. It was later only adopted by DJs as their T/T of choice, due to its rugged construction (and 'rock-solid' sound), ideal in club environments.
National Panasonic realised that, and like any good manufacturer, satisfied customer demand by making the turntable more ‘DJ friendly’, thus fitting it with a pitch control, which is the only concession to its function as a ‘DJ deck’. In every other respect, the SL-1200/1210 is a superbly engineered turntable, designed for use by discerning audio enthusiasts.
Those are the facts!
That Peter and your don’t rate it, is simply your opinion, which you’re entitled to, although based on considerable experience of listening to and using a highly-modified version of one of these T/Ts (and many belonging to others), Peter’s observations in that respect bear no resemblance to what I’ve heard to date, and continue to enjoy every day from my own SL-1210. As such, I’d have to question how good the one was belonging to his customer.
Perhaps, I could pop down to your premises sometime, bring my T/T with me, and let you hear it in the context of your demo system against ANY other turntable of your choice? I can’t guarantee that you’ll like it or will consider it as good your usual references, but what I can guarantee is that by the time I leave, you’ll realise that it’s not just a ‘DJ deck’, and that what I’ve spent on modifying it is far from being a waste of money! ;)
Are you up for that? :)
Marco.
jandl100
07-12-2014, 08:12
Yep, the Techie 1200/1210 was designed as a hifi deck and was adopted by the DJ community, not the other way round.
Nice very good vfm decks in standard form at used prices. I enjoyed mine, and I have heard the proof of what upgrading them can do at MartinT's place.
They are not for everyone, but nothing is! :)
. You may not like what you hear if you are jumping on the Techie upgrade band wagon. I have had more 1210's than most as I DJ'd for decades and personally feel any upgrade to this DJ only deck is a total waste of money....but each to their own.
This is fair comment:
You may not like what you hear if you are jumping on the Techie upgrade band wagon
This isn't and is also factually incorrect:
any upgrade to this DJ only deck is a total waste of money
A deck only has to do two things well - speed stability and immunity from vibration. The SL1200 does both better than anything anywhere near the price they are available for.
As well as being originally a hi-fi deck a lot of radio stations including the BBC used SL1200s as 'second tier' broadcast decks. Fit a high quality fine line tipped cartridge on a lightly modded sl1200 you will get at least 90% of what vinyl has to give. It is a neutral, more 'CD -like' sound compared to what you get from low mass belt drives and some people don't like that and that is fair enough.
jandl100
07-12-2014, 10:50
Fit a high quality fine line tipped cartridge on a lightly modded sl1200 you will get at least 90% of what vinyl has to give.
Well, I don't agree with that. I've heard some genuine 'super decks' in my time - including about £100k worth of Rockport, which was astonishing in ways you won't believe unless you hear it - and I'd say a lightly modded Techie is about 20% of the way there (assuming such numbers have any meaning, which I doubt). Good value though - that extra 80% costs you 200x as much!
Ammonite Audio
07-12-2014, 11:25
A deck only has to do two things well - speed stability and immunity from vibration. The SL1200 does both better than anything anywhere near the price they are available
Do you really believe that? A record player is a relatively complex structure that has to deal with micro-vibrations in an orderly manner. Yes, it has to turn the platter at the correct speed, but the polar speed analysis plots published over at PFM revealed that even here there is far more to the subject than meets the eye, or rather published W&F figures; and the Sl-1200 was certainly not alone in turning in some odd and telling results.
While it is tempting to focus on gross structure-borne vibrations such as footfall, or tapping the support furniture with a finger, many designers forget to deal with musically destructive small amplitude energy that flows around the various structures in the turntable. So, when you talk about immunity from vibration, be sure that you also include internal vibration management in the equation.
A good contact to speak to is Peter at Deco Audio in Aylesbury, he has a customer who did a cost no object Techie upgrade with every conceivable high end upgrade out there. You may not like what you hear if you are jumping on the Techie upgrade band wagon. I have had more 1210's than most as I DJ'd for decades and personally feel any upgrade to this DJ only deck is a total waste of money....but each to their own.
I hope you take Marco up on his offer. I started out with an unmodded but well looked after SL1210 - It bested the turntable it replaced - Marantz TT15 (a rebranded Clearaudio Emotion) - not by much, basically tighter base and more user friendly. I did some major upgrades: A full service, an aftermarket power supply, platter, new tonearm, special isolating feet (Isonoe). These were not top shelf upgrades but I could hear a difference with each of those steps. Cumulatively they make a substantial difference that was obvious to my ears and I certainly do not have absolute pitch.
I speculate: If you have been using DJ cartridges then your bar has been a tad low. My idea is that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Even if you put a Kuzma 4 Point on your techie with a DJ scratching cartridge - well, ya gunna hear your cartridge and the arm will not a silk purse make. Marco's idea is that the 1200 / 1210 has a good heart (the motor) and if you address all the surrounding issues then you step up to a great turntable. So: call him out! And if you have an open mind you just may - like me - be converted to the dark side of Japanese direct drive.
Do you really believe that? A record player is a relatively complex structure that has to deal with micro-vibrations in an orderly manner. Yes, it has to turn the platter at the correct speed, but the polar speed analysis plots published over at PFM revealed that even here there is far more to the subject than meets the eye, or rather published W&F figures; and the Sl-1200 was certainly not alone in turning in some odd and telling results.
While it is tempting to focus on gross structure-borne vibrations such as footfall, or tapping the support furniture with a finger, many designers forget to deal with musically destructive small amplitude energy that flows around the various structures in the turntable. So, when you talk about immunity from vibration, be sure that you also include internal vibration management in the equation.
I appreciate the need for a deck to be internally as well as externally immune from vibration, yes. I am not saying that the sl1200 is outstandingly good at either, in absolute terms, just that it is easily the best in its price class and beyond.
What decks in your opinion that are available new or used for around £300 (with arm) would you say are superior in terms of speed stability and vibration control (the latter accepting that the deck is sited on/in suitable support/environment for its design)?
Idlewithnodrive
07-12-2014, 12:44
The Sony PS-6750.
The Sony PS-6750.
Okay we have one contender so far....I'm guessing you are saying it is an SL1200 done better since it is very similar in design?
Ammonite Audio
07-12-2014, 13:47
What decks in your opinion that are available new or used for around £300 (with arm) would you say are superior in terms of speed stability and vibration control (the latter accepting that the deck is sited on/in suitable support/environment for its design)?
I don't think the standard deck is the issue. A more valid comparison would be a fully pimped Technics against similarly priced brand new competition, eg STST Motus
I don't understand why the SL1200 always has to be 'fully pimped' in these comparisons. As though the stock deck is a complete waste of time unless you spend three grand (or whatever) on it. In my personal experience that is not the case but what do I know, the best TT I ever heard - and I've heard a few £10K plus decks - was a heavily pimped Goldring Lenco GL75.
Okay we have one contender so far....I'm guessing you are saying it is an SL1200 done better since it is very similar in design?
Sansui SR-929
Sansui SR-929
Not common though and sell for £450-£500
Ammonite Audio
07-12-2014, 16:22
I don't understand why the SL1200 always has to be 'fully pimped' in these comparisons. As though the stock deck is a complete waste of time unless you spend three grand (or whatever) on it. In my personal experience that is not the case but what do I know, the best TT I ever heard - and I've heard a few £10K plus decks - was a heavily pimped Goldring Lenco GL75.
Because that's what it says in the title of this thread.
We are all different with different ears, auditory systems, brains, experiences, preferences, prejudices etc, so it's no surprise that my view of the SL-1200 does not mirror yours. Maybe at some point I will be able to pitch my old Thorens against Marco's Technics, as one of the ultimate expressions of Techy Pimping, but I somehow doubt that my views towards tge Technics will be changed fundamentally. Incidentally, the very best 'tables that I have heard have been (in order): Audio Note TT3 Reference, Thorens TD-124, Well Tempered Amadeus, so price does sometimes come into it!
walpurgis
07-12-2014, 16:35
Sansui SR-929
The cheaper SR-525 is a decent TT. Nice arm too.
Not common though and sell for £450-£500
Really , http://http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SANSUI-SR-929-TURNTABLE-RECORD-PLAYER-/171568204093?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27f243093d
Really , http://http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SANSUI-SR-929-TURNTABLE-RECORD-PLAYER-/171568204093?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item27f243093d
This one here finished at £455, collection only, too.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Sansui+SR-929&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc
Ergo, £192.40 to £455 then !
I've seen another that fetched just over £500 but I can't find it now so okay, okay, we now have 2 contenders ;)
I will concede that this particular model is at the outer edge of your point you are making Macca, perhaps the SR 838 might have been a better suggestion.
I don't think the standard deck is the issue. A more valid comparison would be a fully pimped Technics against similarly priced brand new competition, eg STST Motus
Yup, that’s one comparison I’d love to do, and indeed should happen next time Guy Sergeant visits :)
Marco.
Roger - Doesn't matter, it was a ballpark figure anyway. It's interesting to hear just what other alternatives there are out there. I've had a couple of Sony DDs in the past but no experience of the one mentioned above or the Sansui.
I hope you take Marco up on his offer. Marco's idea is that the 1200 / 1210 has a good heart (the motor) and if you address all the surrounding issues then you step up to a great turntable. So: call him out! And if you have an open mind you just may - like me - be converted to the dark side of Japanese direct drive.
I hope Craig does take me up on my offer, as I’m sure he’d find the experience both enjoyable and enlightening… The problem with modded Techie’s is that the cumulative effect of the modifications/upgrades is not always successful (as there many options available - so many routes to take - and not all of them result in synergy).
That's particularly the case with tonearm and cartridge selection. Get that wrong, and it can very easily result in sterility and an overtly ‘hi-fi sound’.
Therefore, ‘musical sounding’ examples should be used to ameliorate the inherently ‘forensic’, ‘CD-like’ sound of the Technics, which is why I use an SPU and a traditional Jap detachable-headshell tonearm, both of which have those ‘musical sounding’ sonic characteristics, and thus marry well with the inherent ‘house sound’ of the Technics.
Anyway, it’s the misinformation about the Technics, perpetrated by supposedly knowledgeable people, that rips my knitting, such as it being 'just a DJ deck’, and worse, this:
You may not like what you hear if you are jumping on the Techie upgrade band wagon.
There is no such “band wagon” - if there was, it’s been going on now for about six years!! ‘Bandwagons’, by their very nature, are short-lived entities, similar to ‘flavours of the month'.
Folk have been modifying Techies now, to my knowledge, since around 2007 and loving the results achieved, so that’s a bloody long bandwagon! ;)
Since then, many 100s, probably 1000s of T/T enthusiasts worldwide, have gone down that route (to varying degrees) and found they now have T/Ts that outperform many of the so-called ‘proper’ hi-fi turntables they’ve owned in the past, some of them rather more expensive, too!
The way to judge any piece of kit is how well it stands the test of time, and in that respect, the modded Techie has passed with flying colours.
Quite simply, if it wasn’t an inherently good piece of kit, and modifying it wasn’t worthwhile, then the urge to do so amongst enthusiasts would’ve died a quick death. The fact that that hasn’t happened, and 6/7 years on, people are still modifying them, is testament to the validity of the process.
:exactly:
Therefore, far from anyone ‘jumping on a bandwagon’, a modified Technics is, for some discerning audio enthusiasts, a viable route to owning a genuinely high-end turntable, capable of competing with the best - and often at far less cost than the T/Ts coveted by so-called ‘audiophiles’!
Marco.
There is no such “band wagon” - if there was, it’s been going on now for about six years!! ‘Bandwagons’, by their very nature, are short-lived entities, similar to ‘flavours of the month'.
.
Just to be pedantic a 'flavour of the month' must by definition last one month whereas a bandwagon may roll for a considerable and undefined time. I suppose if we take the origin of the term then the point at which the band cease playing and leave the wagon is the end of the 'bandwagon' as such, although it should be pointed out that the wagon itself may continue on for other purposes, hauling coal or perhaps smuggling illegal immigrants.
Sure, Martin, choose whatever terminology you like, ‘emperor’s new clothes’, or whatever… The point is, it wouldn’t have taken seven years for folk to find out that modifying an SL-1200 or 1210 was a 'waste of time'! ;)
If the process didn’t have any validity, then it would’ve very quickly died a death. *That* is the point I’m making. The fact that it hasn’t, and quite the opposite, continues to grow in popularity (as evidenced on this forum and others), shows that for many, the process is very much worthwhile.
For ‘jumping on the bandwagon’/‘flavour of the month’, etc, see the likes of TQ or Slic cables!!
Marco.
I appreciate the need for a deck to be internally as well as externally immune from vibration, yes. I am not saying that the sl1200 is outstandingly good at either, in absolute terms, just that it is easily the best in its price class and beyond.
What decks in your opinion that are available new or used for around £300 (with arm) would you say are superior in terms of speed stability and vibration control (the latter accepting that the deck is sited on/in suitable support/environment for its design)?
As an alternative to the Sony PS-6750 mentioned above I would have thought this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-PS-2250-DIRECT-DRIVE-TURNTABLE-AUDIO-TECHNICA-AT-1005-ARM-/251717663752?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item3a9b8abc08) Sony PS-2250 could be the basis of a very decent turntable. I know it is priced at £400 but I bet the seller would take the arm off and reduce the price accordingly.
Obviously, I'm a big fan of the PS-6750. The carbon fibre arm of the PS-6750 is none too shabby and merits a decent cartridge. That said it's not readily modded whereas the PS-2250 could be re-plinthed and take an arm of your choice.
As usual, when someone drops by to slate the Technics and make ill-informed remarks about it, and when I respond by offering to let them hear mine in their own system, to judge for themselves, the offer is ignored and the person making those remarks simply goes off into the sunset…
You can draw your own conclusions from that, folks! ;)
Marco.
P.S Folk don’t like their opinions/preconceptions/biases challenged, do they?
Thirty years of British hi-fi mag brainwashing re turntables certainly has had a big effect, no doubt about that. Very different attitude over on the U.S forums.
Thirty years of British hi-fi mag brainwashing re turntables certainly has had a big effect, no doubt about that.
You’ve hit the nail on the head there… And one of our jobs on AoS is to dilute that brainwashing and inform accordingly. Slowly but surely, however, the message is getting through! :)
Marco.
They are both good, hows that for being PC? :)
Not talking out my arse, have my Michell and two 1210's sitting here, though they are stock and being refurbished after 20 years of hard DJ'ing and being in storage for 10 years!
Put it this way, my Brothers not a hifi guy, but I'm working on him...and he'll like what he hears.
I've given him an Amptastic T-Amp and a spare set of Mission M70i speaekrs to get him going, along with all the cables he needs.
Nice wee system, looking forward to hearing his 1210's in it.
Can say that in my system the Michell completely mullers the Technics, but its an unfair comparison given the that's the 1210's at stock, with a good but not fantastic cart on it and my Gyro's been "fully pimped" (as the kids say)
So no hard n fast opinion here.
Techie's makes nice sounds, even at stock.
Spot on (on all counts), Gaz. The very fact that a stock Techy is even competing with your Gyrodec says it all! ;)
Marco.
Nothing like sorting out a system for a mate. I really enjoy doing that, especially if their only frame of reference is some Saisho midi system or something similar.
Too many folk have heard a stock Techy with a cheap MM and thought 'hmm not good at alll'. Although they can still be impressive with dance/club sort of programme. But the stock headshelll is crap and the thick rubber mat deadens everything. Just change those two features and you have a deck that will compete with the Gyro, albeit with a different style of presentation.
Reckon it would need to be a majorly pimped techie to be honest...
Difference is night and day really, but if you hadn't heard something a lot better you'd be happy.
Remember though, the 1210 is totally stock, and my Michell decks been taken as far as it can (practically an Orbe) so an unfair comparison really.
Heard David Brooks' modded techie down at Owsten, sounded very good indeed.
Reckon it would need to be a majorly pimped techie to be honest...
.
I've seen your Gyro/Orbe but not heard it obviously but I guess it would be a tough act to beat. If you haven't done it already try the Technics with a different mat and a quality headshell and a good MM cart. No other pimping. And then report back how much that closed the gap. I'm guessing it will be a lot.
What gets me is the stubborn pig-headedness of some in believing that modifying an SL-1200/1210 is a ‘waste of time’. Based on what, I wonder? What detailed comparisons have they carried out between one and whatever else it is they think is better?
Most of the time, their ‘opinion’ is based on nothing much more than ignorance and snobbishness, refusing to believe that a turntable, made famous by DJs (or one used in professional environments), is any good for hi-fi use… I mean what self-respecting audiophile wants a T/T with a Technics badge on it? :doh:
It just goes to show how easily some folk are blinded by looks, a ‘desirable badge' and/or the price tag, or influenced by those with an agenda - and that doesn’t just apply to hi-fi!
Marco.
?
Most of the time, their ‘opinion’ is based on nothing much more than ignorance and snobbishness, refusing to believe that a turntable, made famous by DJs (or one used in professional environments), is any good for hi-fi use… I mean what self-respecting audiophile wants a T/T with a Technics badge on it? :doh:
It just goes to show how easily some folk are blinded by looks, a ‘desirable badge' o.
That really is it as you say. I've had a couple of conversations along the lines of 'of course the Linn (or whatever) is a lot better' made as a throwaway statement of fact. But when you ask them what is it specifically that makes it better, what components, what aspect of the design they stall then say something like 'but the Linn costs £5K! and it's a Linn!'
Which is not to say there are not a lot of people who could answer that question with valid points but they tend to be the same more knowledgeable/experienced people who can appreciate what the Technics has to offer also.
Indeed; it’s called being open-minded and willing to accept that your age-old opinions on audio may require some reassessing! ;)
One thing I heard once, which baffled me, was that the ‘feel-good factor’ of owning kit with a ‘proper badge’ on it was considered as important. Perhaps someone with that sort of mindset could explain the concept to me? :scratch:
Marco.
its the same as people who buy a voltswagon over the Skoda equ. Skodas are better made have basically the same technologhy and are way cheaper but dont have the badge which is important to many who like to be one ahead of their friends or neighbours etc. sad but true...bmw buyers have the disease bad
Sounds like a rather superficial and sad existence…..
Marco.
I'm guessing it's a huge mixture of things. Partly 'flavour of the month' syndrome, where everyone jumps on a particular bandwagon until the wheels fall off (see Linn/Naim); partly people wanting to buy into a 'known' brand where there's a level of dealership support available; partly word of mouth, which means people buy whatever their mates have. In my case, it's sheer bloody idleness; I discovered Roksan
back in the mid 80s and have never felt the need to look any further as far as turntables go, especially if that looking further involves faffing around with mats, arms, feet, motors, plinths, platters and God knows what else.
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