Collectable CDPs?

[Reffc]

Now that the future is perhaps uncertain RE CDP availability say 5 years down the line (never mind 10 years), I thought it would be interesting to see what folk though of as the CDPs worth searching out now before the usual "cult classic" status hits them in a decade or so, sky-rocketing values. If we'd all bought 301's back in the day (those of us that are grumpy and old enough to qualify :lol:) then we'd be laughing now. Could the same be said of CDP's?

A few of my personal favourite sounding CDPs:

Rotel RCD965BX; Phillips CD850 and CD960; Marantz CD94II, CD63KI and CD12LE; Wadia 830; Opera Consonance Linear 2.2, mini Droplet (3.1) and Droplet (5.1)

Lots of years in between these but I rated each and every one of them. I use the mini droplet at the minute but would be happy with any of them in good condition.

[Kember]

Now that the future is perhaps uncertain RE CDP availability say 5 years down the line (never mind 10 years), I thought it would be interesting to see what folk though of as the CDPs worth searching out now before the usual "cult classic" status hits them in a decade or so, sky-rocketing values. If we'd all bought 301's back in the day (those of us that are grumpy and old enough to qualify :lol:) then we'd be laughing now. Could the same be said of CDP's?

A few of my personal favourite sounding CDPs:

Rotel RCD965BX; Phillips CD850 and CD960; Marantz CD94II, CD63KI and CD12LE; Wadia 830; Opera Consonance Linear 2.2, mini Droplet (3.1) and Droplet (5.1)

Lots of years in between these but I rated each and every one of them. I use the mini droplet at the minute but would be happy with any of them in good condition.

There are several good ones in my view.

At the risk of being jeered at, I'll suggest the Bang and Olufsen CDP of the nineties (specifically the CDX, 5500 and 6500). They are beautifully made, sound good and are almost bullet proof. The problem is they can't be operated by remote apart from the rest of the system but into every life a little rain must fall...And that billetted aluminium drawer is to die for. Furthermore, resale values will only climb for unmolested ones.

Audio Research CD 1 and CD2 are now quite reasonably priced and beautifully made but you can't just swap out the mechanisms.

Early Meridians (200 series) still quite reasonably priced.

Luxman D103u and 105, if you can find them?

Any of the Sony ESs?

What about the early Naims? CDS-1 and CD3?

I would have any/all of these if space permitted.

[Andrew B]

I really do think you're Right and we will have the CD equivalent of the Naim Nait and LS3/5A in CD palyers within a couple of years. My own favourites would be different though. I've actually had the first five of the players you list and didn't like any of them. Mind you, I've only really liked a handful of players over the years. Naim CDI, CDS and Rega Planet Mk1 have been my favourites. I haven't liked a single Marantz player and the worst player I've ever owned was the Philips CD840 (their first bitstream model).

[DSJR]

I make no apologies for suggesting the original Rega Planet and Jupiter/IO players, since they can still be serviced I understand and could sound so good.

Others from the late 90's are the original MF X-Ray CD player and Arcam Alpha 8SE and 9 players, Denon DCD1015 (great transport) and Sony 930 (I think).

[Spur07]

i got a Phillips CD840 off fleabay for £20 and it gave my HD/buffalo II 32s a good run for its money.

[twickers]

I make no apologies for suggesting the original Rega Planet and Jupiter/IO players, since they can still be serviced I understand and could sound so good.

Others from the late 90's are the original MF X-Ray CD player and Arcam Alpha 8SE and 9 players, Denon DCD1015 (great transport) and Sony 930 (I think).

The Sony was great. Fantastic build. £300 new at the time IIRC.

http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12638153/img/12638153.jpg

[Effem]

The Sony XA-50ES is very much sought after now and I would imagine a few years hence it will be even more so. Add to that the XA-20ES and the "shoebox" XA-3000, both of which I have owned and enjoyed.

Top of the range CEC players could also make the list :eyebrows:

[Reffc]

I really do think you're Right and we will have the CD equivalent of the Naim Nait and LS3/5A in CD palyers within a couple of years. My own favourites would be different though. I've actually had the first five of the players you list and didn't like any of them. Mind you, I've only really liked a handful of players over the years. Naim CDI, CDS and Rega Planet Mk1 have been my favourites. I haven't liked a single Marantz player and the worst player I've ever owned was the Philips CD840 (their first bitstream model).

I agree RE the Rega Planet and would include that. I had the Mk1 when it first came out. Great player but lacked detail. Later Rega Planet and Apollo were better and I'd add both of those onto my list. Conversley, I didn't like the Naim CD1 which was a little sterile to my ears.

[Rare Bird]

http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12638153/img/12638153.jpg

I have one of those in the wardrobe, it was actually the most used CDP ive ever had.

[Spectral Morn]

The Marantz CD94 2 (I have one) and a CD12 (don't, but would love to) neither available as bargains now days. The Marantz CD7 not a bargain either still holding value well.

The Opera Droplets are very nice players, I would also say that any of the AMR players will become classics, the CD77 (defo) or CD777 (maybe)

The big Rega Isis might as well particularly the valve version. CDps from Esoteric, Accuphase, Wadia and Reimyo will be collectable and desirable.

Regards Neil

[DSJR]

I agree RE the Rega Planet and would include that. I had the Mk1 when it first came out. Great player but lacked detail. Later Rega Planet and Apollo were better and I'd add both of those onto my list. Conversley, I didn't like the Naim CD1 which was a little sterile to my ears.

Interesting that Paul - the CD-I's I sold were musical - when new - and had a beefier bass and certainly not sterile/harsh like the 'orrible CDX replacement was, at higher price of course :rolleyes: The Planet was pared to the bone and this was part of the charm I thought. used with a 'Couple' (you know the one :lol:) it beat the Alpha 8 and was around as good as the 8SE. The two-box one would have been better for the likes of yourself though I think, as the sound had more foundation and 'breathed' better as a result.

I could add some of the old Copland players to the list, the 266 having a Sony mech, the 288 a VRDS one - can't remember the 289 but this latter was like a Linn CD12 in miniature and I loved it...


P.S. I have to add that a good budget priced DVD or Blu-Ray machine is supposed to make an excellent CD spinner for an external DAC. You chaps may have different ideas though ;)

[chelsea]

Top end micromegas.

[Spectral Morn]

Top end micromegas.

Too flaky re transport mechs in my experience. Reliability on older machines - no idea re new ones - was terrible with the Stage series being a complete mess at the time.

I worked for a retailer that sold a lot and at the time Micromega was a nightmare but a good sounding one. I have a Data and Dialog and both had to be fixed.


Regards Neil

[chelsea]

Was thinking more the acrylic versions.
Have had many stage ones which were/are very hit and miss.

http://www.audioscope.net/images/micromegatrio.jpg

[synsei]

The player I own just now will probably stay with me for a while (Arcam CD72), but its bigger brother deserves to be on the list.

http://d2heru13qkbk4q.cloudfront.net/media/938593/scaled/CD_90_F_001_940_ARC.jpg

[Rare Bird]

Stu:
I bought one of those Micro CDP off Auction, the top came smashed :( I had a Micro 'Stage' player that i changed the lazer mech in a few years ago,sold now but my fav Micro player was the tiny original 'Minium' player..

Dave:
The Arcam 'CD72' was my fav Arcam CDP, i sometimes wish id kept it for the wife in the living room instead of the player she uses now, i had it upgraded.....

[chelsea]

That's a real shame as the hi end micromega are beautiful items as well as sounding great.
Would love to get one again even though i rarely use a cd player any more.

[Spectral Morn]

Was thinking more the acrylic versions.
Have had many stage ones which were/are very hit and miss.

http://www.audioscope.net/images/micromegatrio.jpg

Hi Stu

It was more than just the Stage Ones it was the entire Stage - early series - initially. I recall a colleague sitting in a dem room replacing lazer mechs in at least 12 players and that was on one occasion only. It was so bad I refused to sell Stage Series players personally in the shop as they were very unreliable.

The CD turntable Micromega's were not as bad but they were not as reliable as other CD players around at the time. I always wanted to own one as like you I loved the look of them but I didn't like the sound of the way Micromega implemented the 'all the rage' at the time Bitstream DAC's. I quite like the early multibit designs but - as I recall - Micromega went Bitstream quite early on.

An opportunity arose a number of years ago and I bought a transport and DAC. The transport was faulty and needed a new laser and the DAC went off too and needed surface mount repair work to replace the DAC module. I bought them cheap but they ended up costing me a bundle :( to repair, but working they are nice to use and quite good sounding but if I had known the grief before hand I would have passed.

Old Micomega's are hard to fix, if the lazer goes you will struggle to find replacements (particularly the early machines Solo, Duo, Trio) and other spares are hard to get/find as well. If its very, very cheap ok, still a risk, but if its too much money my advice would be to walk on by unless you accept a finite life, and once dead resurrection may well be impossible.

This my Micromega Classic Data and Classic Dialog pair.

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LoveofOnesandZerosreview002.jpg (http://s549.photobucket.com/user/davros124/media/LoveofOnesandZerosreview002.jpg.html)


Regards Neil

[Dingdong]

I'd add the Teac vrds to the list. I'm particularly fond of the 7. Lasers are still available for £15 unlike some of the higher up models. I've done quite a few tweaks to mine and it sounds really rather good.

I've got a spare 7 and a 9 as well.

[hoopsontoast]

Had a Sony 930QS, alright, nothing special.

Phillips CD-850 - Played everything and never skipped, bit industrial.
Rega Planet Mk1 - Lovely little thing!
Teac VRDS although as mark mentions, the more expensive use the Sony lasers that are hard to find.
Sony ES - High end DVD players ;) Brilliant value, best CDP I have owned!

[Jonneville]

I'll add my vote to the TEAC VRDS - they already seem to have a following, probably because of the Wadia connection. Judging by their prices s/h, I'd also reckon on those heavyweight Wadias and those crazy Krells with the perspex lids being ones to watch.

Regards

Jon'.

[Yomanze]

The TEACs, like Pioneers, make much better transports than standalone CD players. They are a bit 'meh' unless plugged into a decent DAC. CD playback has had a bit of a resurgence over the past years with the likes of AMR, Consonance, Audio Note, Zanden, Audial etc. all getting a lot more out of vintage chips than past units.

[Spectral Morn]

The TEACs, like Pioneers, make much better transports than standalone CD players. They are a bit 'meh' unless plugged into a decent DAC. CD playback has had a bit of a resurgence over the past years with the likes of AMR, Consonance, Audio Note, Zanden, Audial etc. all getting a lot more out of vintage chips than past units.

Hi Neil

I hadn't heard of Audial - they look interesting.


Regards Neil

[RMutt]

With most people now using DAC's, I cannot really see why CD players would be collectible, except, of course, for the serial hoarders, of which there are a few on here I suppose. In fact, hoarders aside, I cannot believe just how much stuff people have gone through. And the number of times I read ' oh, yes such and such WAS brilliant, I don't know why I ever got rid it' I know we all want to keep improving our stuff but I suspect some must just be going round in circles. I don't know how some swappers get time to enjoy the music.

[Reffc]

With most people now using DAC's, I cannot really see why CD players would be collectible, except, of course, for the serial hoarders, of which there are a few on here I suppose. In fact, hoarders aside, I cannot believe just how much stuff people have gone through. And the number of times I read ' oh, yes such and such WAS brilliant, I don't know why I ever got rid it' I know we all want to keep improving our stuff but I suspect some must just be going round in circles. I don't know how some swappers get time to enjoy the music.

I think that they will become collectable for the simple reason that tens of thousands of people have large CD collections which they're unlikely to scrap. When LP replay started to die off in the 1980's the same was said of that and I remember some choice decks appearing on the used market for relatively little money. The same decks are now fetching a king's ransom.


Neil makes a good point. There does seem to be a fair few manufacturers (oddly) using vintage chipsets but getting some seriously good performance from them. The Consonance Droplet 3.1 for example uses a quad of TDA 1543 chips and although they could be very run of the mill in some players from the past, the Droplet is a stellar performer, one of the most musical players I've come across.

There's also some early SACD players as well as CD players made by Phillips, Sony and Marantz which really do cut the mustard against some of the most expensive players available today. They may have been expensive in their time but can be had (if found) for reasonable sums today.

Personally I prefer top loaders...less to go wrong, less complex.

In terns of DACs...yes there are quite a few really good DACs available for really very little money but since I (and many others) have no use for anything other than something to play CDs, then a CDP still makes perfect sense. If you have an all digital front end with music collections loaded onto a server then a DAC is obviously the only thing you'll need.

However, music and hifi are about more "than the numbers" for many people. Its also about the tactile nature and quality of the kit, the design and the functionality needed for your own music collections. I can't see myself (yet) parting with my CD collection and really couldn't be bothered spending months copying each disc to a server, so I'll always have need and want of a decent CD spinner. You can buy a cheap DVD and add a decent inexpensive DAC but where'e the fun in that? ;):lol:

[RMutt]

I take your point, but what I was getting at was that once you have a reasonable transport then you need only improve the DAC. I still play CD's and that it what I have done. Plus, as you say the DAC will perform other duties as well, in my case from a Squeezebox Touch. It is hard for me to see myself going back to a stand alone player, but then I have also decided, after thinking hard and reading a lot of stuff on here, to not re-visit LP's either!

[Dingdong]

The TEACs, like Pioneers, make much better transports than standalone CD players. They are a bit 'meh' unless plugged into a decent DAC. CD playback has had a bit of a resurgence over the past years with the likes of AMR, Consonance, Audio Note, Zanden, Audial etc. all getting a lot more out of vintage chips than past units.

The vrds d/a can be fettled into something really quite good. Not cheap mind you.

[twotone]

I had an Arcam FMJ CD23T until recently, fantastic CD player with an amazing sound. I loved it but noticed that the price was creeping up on ebay and given that it was about ten years old it was a complete no brainer to flog it.

[Spectral Morn]

I dug my Micromega Classic Dialog and Data out earlier today - prompted by this thread - and I am listening to them now - very nice :)


Regards Neil

[chelsea]

Lovely combo neil.

[Spectral Morn]

Lovely combo neil.

Indeed they are :cool:


Regards Neil

[Andrew B]

Paul: All credit to you for creating this thread: I for one, have enjoyed reading every single post, especially yours. You're dead right about the great results from older chipsets. For me, it's the way different CD players "drive" systems that fascinates me. The ones I've found least palatable are those with a "flat" sound. Great to see such a variety of views too.

[sq225917]

I have a stage 3, first real hifi CD player I ever owned. All the transport sleds used to dry up on them, only as few minutes to remove the sticky dried grease. I still use it even though I have Mac and DAC, you just can't beat a physical interface. I'd love one of the flip lid transports, that would he a keeper.

[Spectral Morn]

I have a stage 3, first real hifi CD player I ever owned. All the transport sleds used to dry up on them, only as few minutes to remove the sticky dried grease. I still use it even though I have Mac and DAC, you just can't beat a physical interface. I'd love one of the flip lid transports, that would he a keeper.

The situation I described was failure from new straight out of the box and customers bringing them back within a few weeks or even days. These issues were transport failures but not grease related so that's a new one on me.

They were certainly easy to fix re swapping out the transports as my colleague who did it at the time was not a qualified electronics engineer - had a little experience - and had no difficulty doing it.

The problems were eventually sorted out but to my mind these issues damaged Micromega's reputation at the time and after the players were of merchantable quality customers in the know where reluctant to buy them despite there no longer being an issue.


Regards Neil

[jandl100]

Collectable CDPs - hmm, yep, I can't see why not. Lots of fine examples already mentioned.
I certainly have no plans to change away from a CDP.
Streaming? - no thanks, doesn't sound as good to my ears.

As the CD thing dies out commercially, I can see specialist outfits arising using NOS mechs which may even be being hoarded for this purpose as we type!

And I can well imagine I will tuck a few nice players/transports away in the loft! :)

[Effem]

You're dead right about the great results from older chipsets.

Agreed. I still think the 18 bit DACs have the best sound of all, as to me they far outshine the NOS and high bitrate ones :eyebrows:

[Kember]

At the risk of banging on, I know there is a widespread feeling that B&O ain't exactly hifi but these decks from the nineties are very well executed - even over-engineered, especially the 5500 series - they have surprisingly good sound quality as stand-alones and many versions had digital out sockets, so could also be paired with a decent DAC if the oversampling approach etc from the early nineties is not to taste.

As an investment, they are also likely to hold their values better than much of what has been discussed above and there are people out there who are motivated and specialised in keeping B&O stuff alive.

Top loaders on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bang-Olufsen-B-O-CDX-CD-Player-Nice-Condition-GREAT-WORKING-ORDER-/330927233611?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_CDPlayerSeparates&hash=item4d0cccda4b

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bang-Olufsen-B-O-CDX2-CD-Player-/151053846561?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_CDPlayerSeparates&hash=item232b82c821

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-O-BANG-AND-OLUFSEN-BEOGRAM-CD-3500-CD-PLAYER-VGC-REF-13042604-/261209790476?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_CDPlayerSeparates&hash=item3cd151180c - this one has a digital out as well

CD 5500

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BANG-AND-OLUFSEN-CD-PLAYER-5500-/261219966167?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_CDPlayerSeparates&hash=item3cd1ec5cd7

If I weren't under pressure to reduce my holdings, I'd be scouting for these! All have decent Philips CDMs IIRC.

I also came across this - http://www.condoraudio.com/wp-content/uploads/Projects/Philips-CD650-CD-Player-Restoration-Repair.pdf - which might be useful for those nursing older CDPs of the correct vintage.

Peter

[pjdowns]

I agree RE the Rega Planet and would include that. I had the Mk1 when it first came out. Great player but lacked detail. Later Rega Planet and Apollo were better and I'd add both of those onto my list. Conversley, I didn't like the Naim CD1 which was a little sterile to my ears.

Interesting comment about the CDI, as you'll see from my signature I have one which I've owned for about 10 years now and wouldn't consider swapping unless I was moving to maybe the CDS3, but they're still silly money, even on the second hand market.

The CDI to me is a very sweet sounding CD player with good deep and controlled bass and excellent vocal and soundstage abilities.

Prior to the CDI, I had a Sony CDP-339ES and whilst not a patch on the CDI, for the original price of circa £300 it was a great player and built like a tank.

I've always wanted a Meridian 200/203 combo or 206/206 Delta Sigma as I heard them back in the early nighties I instantly fell in love, so if I see one on eBay for a good price I may just jump for one.

Teac VRDS Transports were the dogs in my early days of HiFi and I nearly bought one to partner an Audio Alchemy DAC but I really didn't like the flimsy CD tray (on the model I tried) which put me off.

P.

[julesd68]

Just picked up an exceptionally tidy looking Teac VRDS-10 - will report back on how it sounds once up and running ...