Dark Angel ic's

[icehockeyboy]

These are Jerry's current favourite, so don't leave it too long to answer my query otherwise something else will be in vogue! :lol:

I mentioned to our mutual friend about how the cable looks identical to the NVA Sound Cord, Jerry quickly pointed out that he didn't overly like the NVA's but suggested that I contact the maker, unfortunately he didn't really know, but suggested they might actually be the same cable, hence my question here.

If you've also tried them both, like Jerry, what were your thoughts?

Also, and I trust Jerry's findings totally, if it is the same cable, it must be the plugs that make the difference, correct?

[AlanS]

I Googled Dark An!!gel and Dark An!!gel Cables - zilch. You aren't trying to raise the profile of an obscure product that will transform the HiFi world once discovered like Tellurium are you?

!! to avoid Google hits

I have an NVA Sound Cord which is more than adequate I feel no need to try anything else, especially obscure stuff.

[icehockeyboy]

I Googled Dark An!!gel and Dark An!!gel Cables - zilch. You aren't trying to raise the profile of an obscure product that will transform the HiFi world once discovered like Tellurium are you?

!! to avoid Google hits
Absolutely not!

I have a lot of respect for Jerry's tastes in all things Hifi and have often bought things blind on his recommendation, but I need to convince myself in this case as the two cables mentioned look identical, bar the plugs.

[AlanS]

Absolutely not!

I have a lot of respect for Jerry's tastes in all things Hifi and have often bought things blind on his recommendation, but I need to convince myself in this case as the two cables mentioned look identical, bar the plugs.

If you are that interested buy one of both and tell us all about it.

Mark Grant makes very acceptable cables

Also searched ebay strangely nothing found. So where pray can a person discover anything about them let alone purchase them?

Sorry but they are absolutely obscure.

[YNWaN]

I have a lot of respect for Jerry's tastes in all things Hifi and have often bought things blind on his recommendation,

You must have bought a heck of a lot of stuff then!

[Effem]

Also searched ebay strangely nothing found. So where pray can a person discover anything about them let alone purchase them?

Sorry but they are absolutely obscure.

I managed to find them

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DARK-ANGEL-INTERCONNECT-wired4sound2008-/270412119580?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Ca bles_Adapters&hash=item3ef5d17e1c

[Alan]

It's the same thing - see also Rothwell 'The River'. Perfectly decent cables, though RD used to sell them at £10 a pair. Those plugs look like the Neutriks on Gotham GAC-1, if memory serves.

They sound significantly better with a simple mod (which can double the cost!) - Instead of using the screen as a return, use the core of a second cable. You are making 2 pairs into 1, but they are worth the effort, especially if you have a couple of pairs in a drawer like I did.

[AlanS]

I managed to find them

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DARK-ANGEL-INTERCONNECT-wired4sound2008-/270412119580?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Ca bles_Adapters&hash=item3ef5d17e1c


Congratulations must be the starting points we used. You used full site? I did HiFi and below

They do look like Sound Cord cables. Let the publicity continue

[icehockeyboy]

You must have bought a heck of a lot of stuff then!

:lol:
No not really!

But I have in the past bought stuff after his recommendation, including The original Beresford dac, Silver High Breed cables, and his Lyngdorf amp.

[icehockeyboy]

It's the same thing - see also Rothwell 'The River'. Perfectly decent cables, though RD used to sell them at £10 a pair. Those plugs look like the Neutriks on Gotham GAC-1, if memory serves.

They sound significantly better with a simple mod (which can double the cost!) - Instead of using the screen as a return, use the core of a second cable. You are making 2 pairs into 1, but they are worth the effort, especially if you have a couple of pairs in a drawer like I did.


RD?

Do tell more please!

What or who is RD?

Ta!

[Alan]

Richard Dunn, of NVA.

Once met, never forgotten...:rolleyes:

[icehockeyboy]

Richard Dunn, of NVA.

Once met, never forgotten...:rolleyes:

:doh: of course! Sorry, wasn't thinking, I thought you meant something or someone linked to Rothwell.

I KNOW exactly what you mean about that individual.

[jandl100]

Hmm, yeah, curious.

The cable does look like that used in the NVA Sound Cord. I never did like those, finding them bland sounding and uninteresting in the extreme at the time.

Maybe it's the same cable, maybe it's not. If it is, maybe any differences are down to plugs, or just plain old system synergy. Or any differences may all be in my mind! :lol:

I don't have NVA Sound Cords to directly compare, but my memory of my reaction to them is deeply ingrained ... :zzz: !

I am still using these "Dark Angel" cables and thoroughly enjoying the open, detailed and dynamic sound that they bring to my system.
Go figure. :)

[AlanS]

Or any differences may all be in my mind! :lol:



All differences are in the mind, after all the mind is what connects the senses together and attempts to make sense of what one experiences reconciling previous experience with any new to make a credible moment that does not confuse us. Guess it depends how much one LOOKS for a difference as to whether one thinks one has found one.

How many people have a cable or something else changed in their system without their knowledge, they turn system on and notice immediately a difference. Thats a difference one hasn't looked for, expected, all others are coloured by thought feed from sight and touch.

Let the puiblicity continue.

[realysm42]

I'm going to sell my system and get the cheapest mp3 player I can find, with matching headphones.

I'm done with being conned all the time.

[jandl100]

Let the puiblicity continue.

So what's wrong with a bit of publicity?

If an established forum member comes across a nice bit of kit, why not let others know?
I think that's one of the (many) good and positive things about this sort of forum. :)

[AlanS]

So what's wrong with a bit of publicity?

If an established forum member comes across a nice bit of kit, why not let others know?
I think that's one of the (many) good and positive things about this sort of forum. :)

Whats wrong? If you are asking that question you are not interested in anything except agreement with you and support of your output.

I joined to read and talk mainly with genuine users not wade through a shop window of 49 in yer face adverts, whether blatant commerical folks which Marco needs to support the running of AoS or amateur reviewers such as yourself. Cant think of a suitable smilie so have a wink ;)

[jandl100]

:finger: :ner:

[AlanS]

:finger: :ner:

The one thing I forgot to mention is if someone raving about product X and they have only tried in their own system unless your system is very similar to theirs there is every chance you will not experience anything like the "reviewer". So the reviewers opinion is a worthless distraction.

Its a pitty so many post without even being aware of this then become pissed of because we don't all nod and agree with them.

[jandl100]

..... Its a pitty so many post .....

It's a pitty some people can't spell. :lol:

[AlanS]

It's a pitty some people can't spell. :lol:

Keep on knocking but you cannot come in. Speeling concerns is a pedantry afflicting some. The message is the important part.

[jandl100]

Yes, but the message is cr*p as well.

And hypocritical.

I notice your little review of N!!V!!A Sou!!nd Co!!rds failed to follow your own sad little rules.


I Googled Dark An!!gel and Dark An!!gel Cables - zilch. You aren't trying to raise the profile of an obscure product that will transform the HiFi world once discovered like Tellurium are you?

!! to avoid Google hits

I have an NVA Sound Cord which is more than adequate I feel no need to try anything else, especially obscure stuff.

A perfect case of do what I say, not what I do. :ner:

[icehockeyboy]

It's a pitty some people can't spell. :lol:

And their inability to select the correct word..........using OF when it should be OFF :lol:

[icehockeyboy]

Hmmmm.....why do certain individuals get all wound up over an innocent question regarding a cable? :rolleyes:

All I wanted was someone to come along and put me right as to whether the two aforementioned wires are indeed the same, and wondered if different plugs do make a lot of difference even on the same bit of wire, which I have to take other people's advice that they do. . :scratch:

[Effem]

And their inability to select the correct word..........using OF when it should be OFF :lol:

So the ultimate sin is to not use the correct word and and the spelling too as in "Feckof" :lol:

[AlanS]

Insult away guys. Don't want to mention the cables you are excited about?

NVA Soundcord is excellent between my amp and an NVA A10H Headphone amp using Sennheiser HD 600 Phones - not the best but it brought a rare moment of pleasant surprise when I first put it together and listened.

I don't expect anyone else to have the same experience so I do not recommend any of that kit, especially after the anti RD feeling abroad. In fact avoid trying it.

[jandl100]

ha ha !! - I knew it - you are Richard Dung and I claim my £5. :lol:

[icehockeyboy]

So the ultimate sin is to not use the correct word and and the spelling too as in "Feckof" :lol:

Absofeckinlutely!:lol:

[AlanS]

All because of a cable.

Jan thingy sorry to insult you by suggesting you are an amateur. Sensitive matter eh?

[icehockeyboy]

I have a set of SC's in my system, and as I mentioned before was quite surprised with how they sounded, or should I say there wasn't a step down in SQ, but didn't want to buy a different brand of wire if it uses the same cable, although Jerry assured me there's a chalk and cheese difference in them and the Dark Angels, which is good enough recommendation for me, but you know how it is, you have too much time on your hands and start to type on here......... :eyebrows:

[jandl100]

All because of a cable.

Jan thingy sorry to insult you by suggesting you are an amateur. Sensitive matter eh?

:scratch:

What are you on about? :scratch: No-one pays me for anything. :( :eyebrows:

Of course I'm an amateur.
Actually, I just like hifi, just like everyone else here. :carrot:

[jandl100]

Here's a top tip, AlanS.

Piss off to HFS - with the chip you have on your shoulder, you'll fit in perfectly. :lol:

[icehockeyboy]

Bringing back certain memories with the likes of big dur etc now............
And it used to be a lovely little place here.........

[Alan]

I've messed about with soundcords and different plugs. Plugs don't make the hugest of differences in this case, so if there is a 'chalk and cheese' difference it must be different cable, in spite of it looking identical, and costing a similar amount. Or...

..Perhaps, Jerry's system was in 'a different place' when he used 'cords? An I/C is an interface between 2 items, if either of those change (or the speakers) then the previous experience may not be valid any longer.

Auditory memory isn't up to making comparisons, after all.

Which is to walk the middle line between AlanS' comment about the true value of reviews, and Jerry's point about not taking such reviews too seriously. It's only HiFi chaps. No need for nastiness, Shirley?

[jandl100]

:steam: Don't call me Shirley. :steam:

:eyebrows:

[MartinT]

Guys, let's cool it a little shall we?

AlanS - why is there seemingly a trail of annoyed people in many of the threads you visit? It does seem to me that you like winding people up; there are other ways to get your point across (some of which I agree with).

More importantly: this is a Hi-Fi forum, it is full of members with experiences and opinions. Some of us have also written reviews. All of this is to be taken in the context of individual systems and non-global component familiarity. Use all the info as a guide and then evaluate for yourself. It should not be necessary to say IMO at every step, that's clearly a given. No-one should take anything written here as undisputed fact.

[AlanS]

Here's a top tip, AlanS.

Piss off to HFS - with the chip you have on your shoulder, you'll fit in perfectly. :lol:

Thank you for your tip. I believe you have recent experience there yourself as a member joined then left?

Edit

I hadn't seen MartinT's post when I posted this.

[realysm42]

Blatant troll.

[icehockeyboy]

Anyone else agree that different plugs don't make that much difference?

[MartinT]

Craig - my experience with phono plugs is that they can and do make a difference. For instance, Mark Grant's standard plugs are Canare? and when I ordered a set with WBT 0110Ag they were markedly superior - same cable, different phono plug. I have all my Yannis cables fitted with expensive WBTs for that very reason.

[Ali Tait]

I have found differences with plugs, specifically at one of the Scottish Mafia do's, where we tried two Trico Supra digi I/C's, both with WBT plugs, one copper and one silver. There was a bigger difference between these two than with the other makes we tried. I must admit to being a bit of a plug sceptic until I heard it for myself.

[Alan]

Anyone else agree that different plugs don't make that much difference?

Craig - just to clarify my position - I mean "in this case" they don't make much difference.

[icehockeyboy]

Craig - just to clarify my position - I mean "in this case" they don't make much difference.

Ah, thanks Alan.

[Reffc]

Anyone else agree that different plugs don't make that much difference?

Can't speak for the IC's in question on this thread but my experience suggests that different quality/designed plugs and the quality of the terminations most certainly make a difference.

[YNWaN]

I think, in many cases, the plugs (or, at least, how tightly the plugs grip the sockets) make more difference than the actual cable.

[jandl100]

I think, in many cases, the plugs (or, at least, how tightly the plugs grip the sockets)make more difference than the actual cable.

Interesting.

Certainly the plugs on my Dark Angel i/cs are a pretty tight fit.

My experience, too, is that plugs make a difference.
I looked at it in the case of some Black Rhodium cables I reviewed and was quite surprised to hear significant differences - same type of cable, but different plugs.

[guy]

Hmm, yeah, curious.

The cable does look like that used in the NVA Sound Cord. I never did like those, finding them bland sounding and uninteresting in the extreme at the time.

Maybe it's the same cable, maybe it's not. If it is, maybe any differences are down to plugs, or just plain old system synergy. Or any differences may all be in my mind! :lol:

I don't have NVA Sound Cords to directly compare, but my memory of my reaction to them is deeply ingrained ... :zzz: !

I am still using these "Dark Angel" cables and thoroughly enjoying the open, detailed and dynamic sound that they bring to my system.
Go figure. :)

Hi,

I thought that I would check on HFS, and appararently the plugs are the same as the ones that you were bored by, and the cable is also the same.

Looks like we are down to either synergy or your mindset.

By the way an interesting quote from Richard: " The cost price for the cable is £4.70 per m (discount for bulk 100m). So the cable cost for 75cm set £7.05 plus vat = £8.46, plus cost of plugs and labour = to about £12 cost. So it is less than my normal mark up at £24 should be about £30. So priced at 40% less than these other copies.

So you can all work out how much profit is being made by Rothwell and these Dark Angel things."

Guy. (no visible chip on shoulder at present :) )

[icehockeyboy]

Hi,

I thought that I would check on HFS, and appararently the plugs are the same as the ones that you were bored by, and the cable is also the same.

Looks like we are down to either synergy or your mindset.

By the way an interesting quote from Richard: " The cost price for the cable is £4.70 per m (discount for bulk 100m). So the cable cost for 75cm set £7.05 plus vat = £8.46, plus cost of plugs and labour = to about £12 cost. So it is less than my normal mark up at £24 should be about £30. So priced at 40% less than these other copies.

So you can all work out how much profit is being made by Rothwell and these Dark Angel things."

Guy. (no visible chip on shoulder at present :) )

Hang on, let me see if I'm getting this, are you saying they, ( Rothwell, Dark Angel, and NVA) are all the same, as in a complete ic, not just cable?

[AlanS]

Hang on, let me see if I'm getting this, are you saying they, ( Rothwell, Dark Angel, and NVA) are all the same, as in a complete ic, not just cable?

He (RD) is except the soldering. Go read for yourself.

And please dont blame me if it puts you or anyone else in a quandry.

[jandl100]

Ha!

I'd be tempted to buy a pair of N!!V!!A!! Sou!!nd Co!!rd cables again just to see if it was equipment synergy or crap soldering on the part of Il Duce Dung that's the issue. :eyebrows: But I wouldn't willingly put another penny in the fekker's coffers. :nono:

[Marco]

I'd just like to point out that there is no apostrophe in "ic's", and if you're abbreviating the word 'interconnect', to 'IC', then it should have a capital 'I', just as 'compact discs' do, when they become 'CDs'....

Therefore, the thread title should read: "Dark Angel ICs".

My apologies for the pedantry - as you were, chaps! ;)

Marco.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Except that 'interconnect' is one word, so if you're going to abbreviate it, then perhaps it should be Is?

.....but then, to be perfectly correct, you would use an apostrophe to denote the missing letters because I is not a universally accepted abbreviation. So it would be I's.

Sent via Wazoo's Grammar App.(Pedant Pending)

[jandl100]

I'd just like to point out that there is no apostrophe in "ic's", and if you're abbreviating the word 'interconnect', to 'IC', then it should have a capital 'I', just as 'compact discs' do, when they become 'CDs'....

Therefore, the thread title should read: "Dark Angel ICs".

My apologies for the pedantry - as you were! ;)

Marco.

Ah - use of capitals is an interesting convention.

Another convention that is commonly used on hifi fora (see, I can be a pedant, too :eyebrows:) when a plural s might lead to confusion (i.e. it could just be part of the designation of a component, or a 'super' version of the model) is to use an apostrophe to delimit the component's name.

Yours is more grammatically pure, and in the case of your example, neater. But capitals are more limited in usefulness over all possible examples of plural ambiguity.

:)

[YNWaN]

I would say that fora is not the plural of forum.

I was also wondering, why are the Dark Angel interconnects called Dark Knight in your (lengthy) signature?

;)

[jandl100]

Ah well, I've the super version with added pixie dust - aka Dark Angels. :eyebrows:

Hee hee - looks like I'd been watching the Batman movie prior to amending my sig. :lol:
Fixt.

... anyway, it's not that lengthy compared to some here. ;)
And your siggie is a whole damn forum!

[oscarsaudio]

I may join the discussion later ;)

[jandl100]

I may join the discussion later ;)

So you're a Grammar Whizz then, are you? That could be handy! :D

[jandl100]

I would say that fora is not the plural of forum.


from http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fora --->

Usage notes

The English plural forums is preferred to the Latin plural fora in normal English usage.
Ref: Modern English Usage, 2nd Edition, ed. Sir Ernest Gowers, Oxford 1968 (article '-um', p.658).

So, whilst the plural 'forums' is preferred, 'fora' would still appear to be acceptable usage. ;)

[Alan]

Shirley, Fora is congealed barf that gets spread on toast when the butter is gone?

Jerry - how long do you need? I have a remaining set 40cm in a drawer here, and I am sure my 70cm set is with a friend around the corner. I don't use them any more.

[jandl100]

Shirley, Fora is congealed barf that gets spread on toast when the butter is gone?

Jerry - how long do you need? I have a remaining set 40cm in a drawer here, and I am sure my 70cm set is with a friend around the corner. I don't use them any more.

Hi Alan! :)

40cm is fine, if you fancy doing me a loaner.
I really would be interested to hear if the N!!V!!A So!!und Co!!rds do sound the same as the Dark Knight Angel. .
I'll PM you my address in anticipation. :cool:

[The Grand Wazoo]

My time spent learning Latin (badly) at school tells me that 'fora' is the correct plural, but the expected word from forum users is 'forums' so that's what I use. It doesn't stop me internally wincing as I hear my old Latin teacher in my head telling me that I'm "Wrong, wrong, wrong" when I type 'forums'.

Still, I don't suppose it pays to be too picky about spelling or grammar in a world where 'lol' is not seen as an acronym anymore!

[YNWaN]

from http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fora --->

Usage notes

The English plural forums is preferred to the Latin plural fora in normal English usage.
Ref: Modern English Usage, 2nd Edition, ed. Sir Ernest Gowers, Oxford 1968 (article '-um', p.658).

So, whilst the plural 'forums' is preferred, 'fora' would still appear to be acceptable usage. ;)

Yes, perhaps I should have written that I agree that fora is the correct Latin plural of forum but, in this context, I believe forums to be a better use :).

Regarding sigs, as you say, yours is hardly the longest. It's just that when people post quite short comments - most of their post is the huge list of stuff in their signature and if they post repeatedly on the same thread, that list is pointlessly repeated every blooming time! So basically, sorry Jerry, nothing to do with you as such.

I did wonder if you were thinking of Batman when you wrote 'Oscar's' and 'Black Knight' :).

[Marco]

'Fora', regardless of its linguistic accuracy or otherwise, just sounds stilted and rather clumsy. I cringe whenever I see it used. It's 'forums', for me, all the way!

Marco.

[jandl100]

Yep, I agree. I was just trying to out-pedant you. :D

[Clive]

'Fora', regardless of its linguistic accuracy or otherwise, just sounds stilted and rather clumsy. I cringe whenever I see it used. It's 'forums', for me, all the way!

Marco.
Having been forced to study Latin for a couple of years deep into the last century, fora is ok for me but I'm fine with either.

[MartinT]

I can't stand laser being written 'lazer'. I tell the perpetrator that it's an ACRONYM to which they then ask 'what's an acronym?' :doh:

There are tricky words like 'learned' v 'learnt' and 'targetted' / 'focussed' v targeted' / 'focused' that have me double-checking as I like our website content to be perfect.

[brian2957]

Agreed Martin . I was always in the habit of keeping a dictionary handy for when I wasn't sure of how to spell a word or what a word meant. Now it's so much easier just to ' google ' it.

[icehockeyboy]

I am as big a pedant as anyone, but can we get back to discussing if all of these bloody interconnects are as one? :lol:

[jandl100]

Wot?

This is the AOT forum isn't it? -- Art of Off-Topic :eyebrows:

Alan has kindly offered to send me some N!!V!!A So!!und Co!!rds at the weekend - so I'll be able to report back next week on physical and sonic comparisons. :)

Meanwhile, back to AOT Grammar 101 ....

[icehockeyboy]

Hurry up then Alan, can't you send them in a taxi?
Jerry will pay the driver.......shouldn't be more than a couple of hundred quid.........:lol:

[YNWaN]

Looking at pictures of them, all three do seem to be the same.

[guy]

All this discussion about fora or forums, and earlier swipes about poor spelling has left me in a bit of a quandary about the use of "N!!V!!A So!!und Co!!rds".

Is it the result of a sticky key on the keyboard, or a deliberate action (for some strange purpose)?

Guy

[Marco]

It's a secret mating code of the Masabishi nuns.

Marco.

[chelsea]

All this discussion about fora or forums, and earlier swipes about poor spelling has left me in a bit of a quandary about the use of "N!!V!!A So!!und Co!!rds".

Is it the result of a sticky key on the keyboard, or a deliberate action (for some strange purpose)?

Guy

I'am guessing it is to do with google search.

[jandl100]

It's just me being a bit sarcastic ... see post #2 on this thread. Post #22 is quite relevant, too. ;)

[guy]

Being a bit daft I actually googled Masabishi nuns :doh:

So it seems the google search explanation is the likely reason.
Oh well, shame really.
Although I suppose that mating nuns would be equally productive.

Guy

[Marco]

Being a bit daft I actually googled Masabishi nuns :doh:


Hahaha... Now, you *are* a daftee. Embrace and wear your daftness with pride! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[DSJR]

He won't supply me, but I reckon the Super Sound Cord (twin cables I believe, using the solid centre cores as hot and return) could be really good, and not much dearer than the Dark Angel single wire version. I'm not trying to suck up to RD, but I think I can cope with interconnects around the £50 mark, especially if they're a bit tricky to make up.

By the way, aren't the latest basic Neutrik plugs now with a rubber strain relief, rather than the spring?

[oscarsaudio]

If anyone on AOS wants to try these in their system then I'll do 30 day money back guarantee (less postage costs) :)

[icehockeyboy]

If anyone on AOS wants to try these in their system then I'll do 30 day money back guarantee (less postage costs) :)


Oscar,
Was it you I contacted via the e Bay site?
The same guy that didn't know whether or not the cable was the same as the SC's?

[guy]

He won't supply me,

why on earth not? surely a sale is a sale?

Guy

[oscarsaudio]

Oscar,
Was it you I contacted via the e Bay site?
The same guy that didn't know whether or not the cable was the same as the SC's?

Yes ,same guy, I've never used or seen the NVA cable hence not knowing if its the same cable .

[DSJR]

why on earth not? surely a sale is a sale?

Guy

It goes deeper than that, since I'm seen as the enemy who has too many connections to the *evil* trade and who knows him from way back - not in a negative way in my case, but his personal reputation does go back to the late 70's if not earlier, although I never met him to my knowledge when he was at Acoustic Research....... No worries on my account, since I have family all over the country who could always buy a set for me ;)

[Effem]

Wasn't all that "mellow" when I met him in the early 80s :rolleyes:

[Ali Tait]

It goes deeper than that, since I'm seen as the enemy who has too many connections to the *evil* trade and who knows him from way back - not in a negative way in my case, but his personal reputation does go back to the late 70's if not earlier, although I never met him to my knowledge when he was at Acoustic Research....... No worries on my account, since I have family all over the country who could always buy a set for me ;)

Unless he knows where you live, just buy a pair from ebay.

[DSJR]

We'll see one day :)

[RichB]

Use all the info as a guide and then evaluate for yourself. It should not be necessary to say IMO at every step, that's clearly a given. No-one should take anything written here as undisputed fact.

Yes :clapclapclap:

[jandl100]

Well, thanks to 'Alan', here's a visual comparison between NVA Sound Cord and Oscar's Audio Dark Angel .... (no flash used) ....

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF9118_zps6bdcafa9.jpg

Yep, same cable, I reckon.
NVA at the top. Oscar's Audio on the bottom.

Alan's NVA Sound Cord cable is significantly darker, presumably it has aged in some fashion?
RCA plugs are different. The Dark Angel plugs are a much tighter fit onto my pre-amp and CDP sockets.

I've dual stereo outputs from my silver disc spinner, so I'll hook both sets of cable up to my pre-amp to enable easy A/B comparisons later today. :)
-- the cables are of different length - 40cm for the Sound Cord and 80 cm for the Dark Angel - I wonder if that matters in sonic comparisons? :scratch:

[Effem]

The length difference isn't important, but the plug quality is. The NVA plugs are pretty inexpensive generic ones and in my opinion the Neutriks are not a long way up the food chain either.

Eichmann silver bullets could easily pep up the performance to something a bit more acceptable, at a price of course :eyebrows:

[vinylspinner]

I agree with Frank, even the Neutriks pro plugs would be a big improvement, they cost about £13 - 15 a pair.

Nigel

[icehockeyboy]

The length difference isn't important, but the plug quality is.

Eichmann silver bullets could easily pep up the performance to something a bit more acceptable, at a price of course :eyebrows:

Would it be worthwhile having some sexy plugs fitted to them?
:scratch:

[jandl100]

Well, I'm cr*p at soldering, so if someone fancies reterminating one of my sets of Dark Angel with better RCA plugs I'd be happy to pay and send them one of my two pairs for "upping" and subsequent comparison. :)

[icehockeyboy]

Well, I'm cr*p at soldering, so if someone fancies reterminating one of my sets of Dark Angel with better RCA plugs I'd be happy to pay and send them one of my two pairs for "upping" and subsequent comparison. :)

Come on Frank, you're the most likely candidate! :D

And while your at it, assuming you do take on the task, how much would you charge me to supply and fit better plugs to mine? :)

[icehockeyboy]

*Waits with baited breath for Jerry to do his comparison.........:rolleyes::scratch:

[jandl100]

It'll be a while yet - the wife's having a lie-in. :lol:

[icehockeyboy]

It'll be a while yet - the wife's having a lie-in. :lol:

D'oh! :doh:

[Ali Tait]

I'd be happy to reterminate I/Cs for folk. I use WBT solder, if anyone wants to use their own, just send some in the envelope. Just PM and we'll sort it.

[Ali Tait]

BTW, looking at that pic, why on earth do they not use a packing material so that the spring supports the cable properly?

[icehockeyboy]

BTW, looking at that pic, why on earth do they not use a packing material so that the spring supports the cable properly?

Just a guess, but the cable is very lightweight so I don't think there's a need, just IMO.

[Ali Tait]

Leaves it too vulnerable to breaking the solder join IMHO.

[DSJR]

Modern Neutrik plugs have rubber strain reliefs and a version of the internal cable clamp from the Pro versions I think.

[jandl100]

Yes, I agree with Ali about the lack of strain relief on both cables. It's easy enough to do, why not do it?

Anyhoo - herewith my long-awaited listening impressions :eyebrows: ---->

Damn, they are very similar. :lol:

The last time I tried NVA Sound Cord it resulted in my system sounding genuinely dire, with a dynamically bland, lacklustre and boring sound. That was in a totally different system (including a different listening room, I think!).

Small differences? Yes, in my system, the Dark Angel is a tad faster and cleaner on treble transients, and has a smidgeon more bass extension, slam and definition. There's a touch of grain on female vocals that diminishes quite a lot when reverting to the Dark Angel.

The more expensive Dark Angel gets my personal vote. Tbh, if I wasn't doing a direct comparison I suspect I'd be very pleased with the Sound Cord.

I think the small differences are down to the different RCA plugs. Curiously, the cheap Gotham cables (an ex-fave of mine) use the same Neutrik RCAs, I think, and they also have excellent bass texture and control. Maybe it's something about the firmness of grip on the socket? :scratch:
Yep, I'd love to try the cable with better plugs!

A forum friend brought over his £300+ favourite ICs a month or so back, saying "Jerry, you just have to listen to what these will do for your excellent system!".
To his and my astonishment, the Dark Angels were almost indistinguishable from them. Yep, his were slightly more transparent and open, but nothing to get excited about (or spend £300 for).
An old hifi chum of mine, with a lot more experience of different kit than me, has always claimed that cable choices are as much dependent on the kit they are connecting as on the cables themselves. :hmm:
I am beginning to suspect that he may have been right all along, and there is just something about my current system that the Dark Angel / Sound Cord wires complements in a very synergistic way. For me, they really do sound good in an open and fast way, and imho can stand comparison with much more expensive cables.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. :cool:

[icehockeyboy]

Talking of your giant killers reminds me about the time I took my £4 generic interconnects into Sevenoaks to compare to the £500+ Chord cables, and everyone preferred my cheapies.

[Audioman]

Jerry. If the NVA and Dark Angel cables are the same with the same plugs they should sound the same. In that case the NVA are even cheaper giant killers. So why pay more? Just put aside personal prejudices against the maker and give a balanced opinion. If these are that good buying the NVA is a no brainer. I think there is a lot of psychology in cable comparisons and can you be sure relations with HFS aren't clouding the issue?

Paul.

[jandl100]

Jerry. If the NVA and Dark Angel cables are the same with the same plugs they should sound the same.

But they are not the same plugs, Paul.
Look at the photo. Look at what I said.

Yes, there is some personal prejudice after the atrocious way I was treated on RD's forum, but I am happy that I have indeed put that aside in this matter.

The plugs are different, and the sound is a little different, too. :)

[icehockeyboy]

But they are not the same plugs, Paul.
Look at the photo. Look at what I said.



The plugs are different, and the sound is a little different, too. :)

That said, they are very similar in appearance, apart from a subtle difference or two, the spring bit in particular, yours is black, the NVA gold, colour that is.
Don't you think?

[jandl100]

I already said the snugness of fit is much tighter with the Dark Angels.
And when you see them, they are quite different.

:doh:

I give up, accused of being unfair and prejudiced because the plugs are the same even though there's a photo on this thread which shows they are different. :(

I'll leave you to it, guys. :wave:

[Ali Tait]

I have heard differences using the same plug, but with different materials, namely the WBT silver and copper. The difference between them was obvious in my system.

[Andrew B]

Firstly, let me say I'm not a cable skeptic. Far from it. I do have Soundcords with both these types of plug on, as RD used to use the Neurtiks that are fitted to Dark Angel before changing to the current gold coloured ones. I personally can't hear any difference at all between mine. I do like Soundcords and find hem widely applicable in a range of systems (yes, I'm a box-swapper of 30 years who seems to be making the transition to "collector"). I also find them very robust and that's coming from someone who has broken nearly every cable they have touched. Chord Co used to break almost every time I used it.

In some setups I prefer Klotz La Grange/Rega Couple, but it depends on the system. On that note, I had some La Grange made up with those cheaper black Neutriks Jerry seems to like. I could hear no difference between the made up cable and the Rega Couple with Profis on, although the latter were a pleasure to use. I changed the plugs on the made up cable to more expensive WBT locking copies only because I kept breaking the things.

I cannot possibly hear what anyone else is hearing, and im (thankfully) not controlling anyone else's wallet. For me, I'd buy the cable from the cheapest source and worry about plugs only if and when I felt the need.

[Audioman]

But they are not the same plugs, Paul.
Look at the photo. Look at what I said.

Yes, there is some personal prejudice after the atrocious way I was treated on RD's forum, but I am happy that I have indeed put that aside in this matter.

The plugs are different, and the sound is a little different, too. :)

Sorry, point taken, should have scrolled down. So is the improvement worth the price difference? I wouldn't expect that much difference unless the quality of connection varied though, as I have heard very small difference between radically different cable designs. If the NVA are similar if a little less good sounding on test they still deserve a recommendation on price alone. A couple other points. It does appear the NVA was more burnt in or aged as you say. Also really tight plugs don't necessarily improve sound but can assist in damaging phono sockets.

Paul.

[Marco]

But they are not the same plugs, Paul.
Look at the photo.

To save me searching, which photo are we talking about? Please post it here so I can have a look :)

Marco.

[Ali Tait]

Jerry. If the NVA and Dark Angel cables are the same with the same plugs they should sound the same. In that case the NVA are even cheaper giant killers. So why pay more? Just put aside personal prejudices against the maker and give a balanced opinion. If these are that good buying the NVA is a no brainer. I think there is a lot of psychology in cable comparisons and can you be sure relations with HFS aren't clouding the issue?

Paul.

It could equally be said you are biased in support of NVA.

[jandl100]

post 88


Well, thanks to 'Alan', here's a visual comparison between NVA Sound Cord and Oscar's Audio Dark Angel .... (no flash used) ....

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF9118_zps6bdcafa9.jpg

Yep, same cable, I reckon.
NVA at the top. Oscar's Audio on the bottom.

Alan's NVA Sound Cord cable is significantly darker, presumably it has aged in some fashion?
RCA plugs are different. The Dark Angel plugs are a much tighter fit onto my pre-amp and CDP sockets.

I've dual stereo outputs from my silver disc spinner, so I'll hook both sets of cable up to my pre-amp to enable easy A/B comparisons later today. :)
-- the cables are of different length - 40cm for the Sound Cord and 80 cm for the Dark Angel - I wonder if that matters in sonic comparisons? :scratch:
.

[jandl100]

OK - I'll join back in. :lol:



If the NVA are similar if a little less good sounding on test they still deserve a recommendation on price alone.

Paul.

Yes, I agree. And this is what I posted ...>


... The more expensive Dark Angel gets my personal vote. Tbh, if I wasn't doing a direct comparison I suspect I'd be very pleased with the Sound Cord. ...


Sounds like a reccie to me! ;)

[Andrew B]

I have found speaker cables to degrade over time. Looking at the pics again, I'm now wondering if any differences could be down to age related issues. The NVA cable clearly looks to have quite a bit more age to it. If the cable is older, so are the plugs and contacts. Now, I'm no techie so I apologise in advance if I'm making some basic error that's obvious to others.
Anyone?

Edit: the cable outer is a different shade. If not down to age, could this also be sample variation from the cable supplier themselves ? Many cables have changed subtly over time whilst still keeping the same spec.

[Audioman]

It could equally be said you are biased in support of NVA.

I don't believe in paying more for the same thing that's all. ;)

[Ali Tait]

The cable may be the same, the plugs patently are not. Cost of plugs is a factor also.

[Alan]

Looks like £24 versus £42 for the Dark Angel then, though the DA has 'better' plugs.

Whether they are audible to the point of being worth extra is another matter, although I have had one of the NVA plugs break on me (it was the outer flange - one section fell off when disconnected. Could be clumsy oafishness).

[DSJR]

These plugs are well under a quid each if bought in bulk and I doubt the price difference is more than a few tens of pence in all honesty

Silver (plating) does tarnish, but I didn't think conductivity was affected :scratch:

[Andrew B]

Looks like £24 versus £42 for the Dark Angel then, though the DA has 'better' plugs.

Whether they are audible to the point of being worth extra is another matter, although I have had one of the NVA plugs break on me (it was the outer flange - one section fell off when disconnected. Could be clumsy oafishness).

In the interests of choice, don't miss out Rothwell River at £65 :)

http://www.audioelevation.co.uk/CartV3/Details.asp?ProductID=307

[Alan]

In the interests of choice, don't miss out Rothwell River at £65 :)

http://www.audioelevation.co.uk/CartV3/Details.asp?ProductID=307

Yes - similar plugs again, too!

[Andrew B]

Apparently NVA will fit Neutriks at no extra cost, so now it really does seem a "no brainer" Unless of course, paying more makes a psychological difference and alters perception.

[Effem]

Leaves it too vulnerable to breaking the solder join IMHO.

Bit like a willy in a Wellington Boot if you ask me :lol:

[Ali Tait]

:lol:

[icehockeyboy]

Bit like a willy in a Wellington Boot if you ask me :lol:

Do you speak from experience by any chance Frank? :lol:

[Effem]

Do you speak from experience by any chance Frank? :lol:

Not me Craig.

Tight fit :eyebrows::lol:

[jandl100]

And I thought you walked with a bit of a limp cos of a gammy leg, Frank. :eyebrows:

It's worth bearing in mind that the Dark Angels are £39.99 or best offer on eBay - when I first came across them I offered £30 and it was accepted. ... why not try less? ;)

[MCRU]

£30 for an interconnect, surely far too expensive for all you DIY types? Easy to knock up a bit of wire and solder some rca's on surely? :lol:

only messing of course, wasn't dark angel a series with Jessica Alba in , she was nice in that, executive produced by James Cameron I think.

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/themainsman/Logos/DarkAngelTheUltimateSoundtrackdisc1DarkAngel_zpse7 0f3c74.jpg

[jandl100]

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv216/Eddie63_photos/dark%20angel/ArtFantasy-DarkAngel.jpg

Careful, Frank - you might knock yourself out. :lol:

[MCRU]

she has gone white!

jessica where are you :lol:

[Andrew B]

And I thought you walked with a bit of a limp cos of a gammy leg, Frank. :eyebrows:

It's worth bearing in mind that the Dark Angels are £39.99 or best offer on eBay - when I first came across them I offered £30 and it was accepted. ... why not try less? ;)

Or you could just avoid the hassle and buy straight away from NVA at £24 and RD will fit the exact same plugs if that's what you want. He also posts free unlike DA who charge three quid.

[oscarsaudio]

Or you could support a fellow AOS member ;)

[Andrew B]

Well I thought everything had been said on this but NVA SoundCord is now even cheaper! Not sure if it's OK to post links to other forums (fora?) here so I'll simply say that 70cm with either Neutriks or the other plugs is now £17 post free on Ebay according to HFS.

[jandl100]

Bless.

RD must be getting desperate for sales. :eyebrows:

I must confess that I'd rather give a nice guy like Oscar a few extra £ for his excellent Dark Angel cables than put any money in the coffers of a sc*mbag like Il Duce Dunn. :lol:

[MartinT]

It's perfectly fine, Andrew. Here's the link:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NVA-70cm-SET-SOUND-CORD-INTERCONNECT-CABLE-/271023884837?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Ca bles_Adapters&hash=item3f1a484a25#ht_894wt_1178

[MartinT]

Guys - please can we keep posts polite? I know that emotions are running high whenever NVA are mentioned but we (AoS) are honour bound to point out hi-fi bargains for all to enjoy when we see them.

Thanks.

[Andrew B]

Thanks, Martin. I agree with you about pointing out bargains. It's up to individuals whom they buy from. All I want to do is make sure they have the prices and can then decide for themselves. Personally, I'd rather save cash on the cable and give the extra to my charities, but others may differ.

Jerry actually set me onto a bargain a while ago with Arrow speaker cable. I know he's moved onto other things since but I really do agree with the point made earlier ( might've been by Jerry, but not sure) that these things are system dependent. That's why I hang onto a variety of bits ( I at least that's what I tell myself and anyone who calls me a hoarder lol).

[Audioman]

Bless.

RD must be getting desperate for sales. :eyebrows:

I must confess that I'd rather give a nice guy like Oscar a few extra £ for his excellent Dark Angel cables than put any money in the coffers of a sc*mbag like Il Duce Dunn. :lol:

You may have issues with him but the average punter doesn't. Now if you gave up reviewing Dunn and Jammy might play nice. :lol:

[jandl100]

Thanks, Martin. I agree with you about pointing out bargains. It's up to individuals whom they buy from. All I want to do is make sure they have the prices and can then decide for themselves. Personally, I'd rather save cash on the cable and give the extra to my charities, but others may differ.

Jerry actually set me onto a bargain a while ago with Arrow speaker cable. I know he's moved onto other things since but I really do agree with the point made earlier ( might've been by Jerry, but not sure) that these things are system dependent. That's why I hang onto a variety of bits ( I at least that's what I tell myself and anyone who calls me a hoarder lol).

Hey, yes, that Arrow bi-wire cable is good stuff. :)
-- sure I've moved on, it's what I do, I just like to try different things. But I still recommend the stuff!
And yes, it was my point about cables being system dependent.

I agree up to a point about saving money and spending any excess how you wish. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and NVA is beyond that line for me these days! :eyebrows:

[jandl100]

You may have issues with him but the average punter doesn't. Now if you gave up reviewing Dunn and Jammy might play nice. :lol:

Hey, you forgot that toe-rag, DQ. ;)

[icehockeyboy]

Well done to Oscarsaudio for the June price drop on his Dark Angels!