Rexton's Adventures into Audio - The PS Audio P10

[Wakefield Turntables]

Right, this landed on Friday.

I immediately started to do some research. You need to read this thread before you try this piece of kit out.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?126544-Studies-On-Residential-Power-Line-Noise-Part-10-PS-Audio-P10-AC-Regenerator

I'm very very scepital when it comes to these things and after having had a nasty experience with some isotek kit in my system I truly believed that the P10 would do nothing to my system but I'm happy to report that things do indeed seem to have improved. But, is it £4K's worth??? Well to be blunt, no! I have had the P10 in place now for about 3 days and have left it on continuously to burn it in. I believe that several hundred hours are needed, that's going to be a problem as I have to return in in several days time :( So far I haven't included any fancy fuses or power leads and this may have limited the effects on my system so far. If you have a read of the link I have provided you can see that some of the things reported on this forum have been also reported and more importantly, MEASURED!

It does appear that the P10 will perform better with improved leads and fuses. I choose silver as my conductor choice, i must admit the shielding I used on my own home made lead is OK, but could be better. I'm using 2mm diam silver conductors in my leads so I hope the p10 is getting plenty of juice. :D Switching on the P10 was a revelation in showing me how much crap came into my system. To start with I was getting 250V+ with 1.7-1.9% THD, now I have a rock solid 239.6V at 0.1% THD, I've noticed that the output voltage has stabilised a little, I was getting anywhere between 239.2 to 239.7, so it looks like burning in does have some effect.

I've had to make a few sacrifices to my system layout and I must say that the cable dressing is not the greatest, I could do with optimising the length of some cables, but thats another thing. So what are my first feelings:scratch: Well, positive to be perfectly honest. Yes I'm going to use a few very cheesy remarks to describe what happening, so here goes.

1. The soundstage has widened
2. Bass / kick drums sound fuller
3. Microdetail seems to ooze out of every record. On more than one
occasion I have heard new things from records owned for decades.
4. The soundstage is does show some signs of inproved seperation bewteen
instruments.

The test goes on but just thought I'd post a few remarks.

[TheMooN]

I'm happy to report that things do indeed seem to have improved. But, is it £4K's worth??? Well to be blunt, no!

Purely with regard to your initial thoughts on cost , it would be ideal were you able to demo an AG1500 whilst still demo-ing the P10.

Whilst on paper the PS Audio 'quoted' THD spec reads better than the AG, you might find, that in comparison, your own 'real world' experience provides an sufficiently similar level of audio improvement , in that you might comfortably live with that difference , if any , leaving you with the pleasant predicament of just what to do with the best part of the £4k left in your HiFi Toys Pot :) merely another way perhaps to a similar place :)

[Ali Tait]

I too would be interested in this comparison, and also to a balanced power supply. I think the end result is the same for all though- a lowered noise floor, which is what Andrew seems to be hearing.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Purely with regard to your initial thoughts on cost , it would be ideal were you able to demo an AG1500 whilst still demo-ing the P10.

Whilst on paper the PS Audio 'quoted' THD spec reads better than the AG, you might find, that in comparison, your own 'real world' experience provides an sufficiently similar level of audio improvement , in that you might comfortably live with that difference , if any , leaving you with the pleasant predicament of just what to do with the best part of the £4k left in your HiFi Toys Pot :) merely another way perhaps to a similar place :)

Yep, the AG1500 is something I would consider. The days of me paying top dollar for pointless hifi upgrades are over. If the AG1500 gave me the same results as the P10 has done upto this stage then I would probably buy one. But the jury is still out and the P10 may just get better.



I too would be interested in this comparison, and also to a balanced power supply. I think the end result is the same for all though- a lowered noise floor, which is what Andrew seems to be hearing.

Yep I'd agree with that statement.

[MCRU]

you spent 4 grand expecting nothing

wise move

[MCRU]

you posted in another thread your home brew leads were 4mm, now they are 2mm? oh dear

[Wakefield Turntables]

you spent 4 grand expecting nothing

wise move


you posted in another thread your home brew leads were 4mm, now they are 2mm? oh dear

If I want your smart arse remarks I'll ask for them, otherwise don't contribute to the thread. The P10 is being auditioned. I have many leads from 2mm to 4mm. You REALLY need to get your facts together before making yourself look stupid.

[losenotaminute]

you spent 4 grand expecting nothing

wise move

I took it from the OP that it was on test, given that it has to be returned in a few days.

Lawrence

[The Grand Wazoo]

you posted in another thread your home brew leads were 4mm, now they are 2mm? oh dear
David, is this necessary?
Is the problem the size of the cables, or the fact that there may be different ones to the ones you already know about?
........or is it that someone didn't buy cables from you?

[Marco]

David,

Your provocative remarks are tantamount to thread crapping. If you've got nothing constructive to say, on a particular topic, then say nothing. You'd be very quick to report such behaviour if it happened on one of your threads in the trade room, so kindly extend the same courtesy to Andrew.

Cheers!

Marco.

[AlanS]

Someone is peeved they dont have this business. So in a shrewd move he insults the lost customer.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I took it from the OP that it was on test, given that it has to be returned in a few days.

Lawrence

David,

If you actually had a read at the link I posted you would see that it advocates the usage of good quality leads. I also mention this in my original post. Do you really need to be this hostile???? For someone that tries to flog leads at every chance possible your not doing a very good job of seeing the relevance of this post to your business are you?

A

[Sovereign]

REXTON
Where in GBR are you, I would be happy to drive a few miles with my BPS and AG1500 in hand.

[Marco]

Wakefield, I believe. It should be on his profile... ;)

Marco.

[MCRU]

sorry to all and sundry

see ya :)

[Mr. C]

Guys,

Can I make a suggestion if you would like to try a device that works well and is realistic affordable plus made in the UK.

Airlink BPS (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/cat10/46/conditioning_balanced_power_supply.html)

We have no connection to them or sell their products, I feel these represent good value for money spent.

Mr.C

[Sovereign]

Yorkshire, Yikes. A wee bit too far.....

[Sovereign]

Guys,

Can I make a suggestion if you would like to try a device that works well and is realistic affordable plus made in the UK.

Airlink BPS (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/cat10/46/conditioning_balanced_power_supply.html)

We have no connection to them or sell their products, I feel these represent good value for money spent.

Mr.C
Tony I couldn't agree with you more, I really couldn't. I am still amazed by my Airlink BPS

[Ali Tait]

Guys,

Can I make a suggestion if you would like to try a device that works well and is realistic affordable plus made in the UK.

Airlink BPS (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/cat10/46/conditioning_balanced_power_supply.html)

We have no connection to them or sell their products, I feel these represent good value for money spent.

Mr.C

Aye, a few folk have bought from there, some at my suggestion. Agreed they look good VFM.

[Figlet108]

Andrew, when does it need to go back?
I don't mind coming over from Manchester on Wednesday evening with an AG1500.

I don't yet have a BPS sadly (not until the redecorating is done) so I can't offer one of those. Maybe if someone with a BPS in the area is free we can have us an old fashioned impromptu bake-off.... ?

[Z-A]

The P 10 replaced two Airlink BPS2000 in our system.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Will get to this thread tomorrow. ;)

[Sovereign]

The P 10 replaced two Airlink BPS2000 in our system.
And what were your findings?
Thanks

[Wakefield Turntables]

Guys,

Can I make a suggestion if you would like to try a device that works well and is realistic affordable plus made in the UK.

Airlink BPS (http://www.airlinktransformers.com/cat10/46/conditioning_balanced_power_supply.html)

We have no connection to them or sell their products, I feel these represent good value for money spent.

Mr.C

Thanks never heard of that one.


REXTON
Where in GBR are you, I would be happy to drive a few miles with my BPS and AG1500 in hand.

Many many thanks but yep I'm quite a few miles away.



Andrew, when does it need to go back?
I don't mind coming over from Manchester on Wednesday evening with an AG1500.

I don't yet have a BPS sadly (not until the redecorating is done) so I can't offer one of those. Maybe if someone with a BPS in the area is free we can have us an old fashioned impromptu bake-off.... ?

Many thanks I'll have to see what the calendar holds, I'm off today but I'm not quite sure what days I'm working etc. Will check tomorrow. Thanks for your offer by the way.

[Mr. C]

The P 10 replaced two Airlink BPS2000 in our system.

Hello Paul

Given the price difference between the two products would be £3200ish I would expect the PS Audio to have lifted the performance by a significant amount.

Having had first hand experience with the P10 I would say it certainly lowers the noise floor, give better separation and supplies a deeper and cleaner bass.

Do you use the P10 on the ZL-200's only or does it power a complete CF system?, as it did seem unsettled with some M600's I heard it with a few weeks back.

Tony

[Z-A]

Hello Tony,

We run the full system inc ZL-200 or ZL-120 through it and it helps to achieve what you stated, certainly. The question everybody wants to know is that is the £3200 going to be the best improvement for the money they could make, and that I can not answer. In our system, I use one to get the results that we do, and will have one in our room at Whittlebury this September powering the set-up.

The Airlink BPS though is without any doubt to any potential buyers the best value way of improving overall sonics in a well assembled system, they are around £350 each, IIRC.

What the P-10 does in addition to the extra sense of space/detail and calm that a BPT delivers is covered in several other threads here already, but fundamentally it allows the equipment to be used at the correct specified voltage, mostly 240v, and as the power supply in each component is so influential on sound in terms of it needing to be of high quality and construction, they do ned to be run at or close to that voltage. There is a gracefulness to certain music that is more obvious through the P-10, so in terms of sonic differences, yes the noise floor is very quiet, LF definition improves, soundstage is pinpoint and stage depth is remarkable. But, it is the ease and flow that I sense is key.

Power amps of course are a try it and see connection, some will respond well, other simply will want draw too much current, so big class A mono's could be better connected directly to a wall outlet.

Also, just to clarify, we are not affiliated to PS Audio, or Signature Audio systems, rather just happy users of solely the P-10..

Sovereign,

Hi, as above really. It is a step up, but it all depends on the level of rest of the system and of course budget/sonic demands.

Best Rgds,
Paul.

[Figlet108]

Many thanks I'll have to see what the calendar holds, I'm off today but I'm not quite sure what days I'm working etc. Will check tomorrow. Thanks for your offer by the way.

No problem. just let me know when you're free and we'll see if we can sync our coordinates...

[Mr. C]

Hello Tony,

We run the full system inc ZL-200 or ZL-120 through it and it helps to achieve what you stated, certainly. The question everybody wants to know is that is the £3200 going to be the best improvement for the money they could make, and that I can not answer. In our system, I use one to get the results that we do, and will have one in our room at Whittlebury this September powering the set-up.

The Airlink BPS though is without any doubt to any potential buyers the best value way of improving overall sonics in a well assembled system, they are around £350 each, IIRC.

What the P-10 does in addition to the extra sense of space/detail and calm that a BPT delivers is covered in several other threads here already, but fundamentally it allows the equipment to be used at the correct specified voltage, mostly 240v, and as the power supply in each component is so influential on sound in terms of it needing to be of high quality and construction, they do ned to be run at or close to that voltage. There is a gracefulness to certain music that is more obvious through the P-10, so in terms of sonic differences, yes the noise floor is very quiet, LF definition improves, soundstage is pinpoint and stage depth is remarkable. But, it is the ease and flow that I sense is key.

Power amps of course are a try it and see connection, some will respond well, other simply will want draw too much current, so big class A mono's could be better connected directly to a wall outlet.

Also, just to clarify, we are not affiliated to PS Audio, or Signature Audio systems, rather just happy users of solely the P-10..

Sovereign,

Hi, as above really. It is a step up, but it all depends on the level of rest of the system and of course budget/sonic demands.

Best Rgds,
Paul.

Hello Paul

Thank you for your reply.

I would agree with you completely regarding the power amplifier statements, it did take a step backwards with TAD's.

Though most medium current applications should suffice.

Having spent many years designing and constructing mains regeneration devices (some quite considerable in size ) I personally have found they can be a dual edged sword, in some area quite beneficial others not so.

As with all things mains you need to trial at home.


Tony

[Wakefield Turntables]

I personally have found they can be a dual edged sword, in some area quite beneficial others not so.



Care to share your findings, would be most helpful for me.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Another day of using the P10. So whats changed? Only 2 things really.

1. I re-dressed all my cables today
2. The P10 has had another 30 hours or buring in.

Any changes to what your hearing ?

Well yes. The P10 is now giving me the feeling of how my system sounds when it's on song. I made came to this conclusion quite by chance. My system is extremely clinical and forensic in nature, it will soon highlight a poorly recorded piece of vinyl. Every record I have played today has shown an increase in resolution and detail, now thats a bif +1 for me. The scale of the soundstage presentation has also improved with every instrument sounding, "larger" in presentation than before the p10 was plugged in. Bass appears less bloated. The test still continues. I'll be trying accoustic and classical tomorrow. I did some Jazz today but the jury is still out. I wonder why my system sounds so on song. The only conclusion I can come to is that all the uncertainty of power coming into the system has been removed. I now have pretty much the same voltage +/- 0.1 to 0.2V and the total harmonic distortion (THD) has gone from 1.5% down to 0.1%.

Conclusion - getting better. My system now sounds on song. The P10 appears to be very sensitive to cabling. I PERSONALLY THOUGHT THIS WAS BULLSHIT

To-do - Listen to some piano and accoustic to assess note stability.
- Get the P10 on some sorbothane to see if its prone to vibration.

The experiment goes on.....

[Wakefield Turntables]

Im having far too much fun with this now. I've never heard electronica or classical sound so good on the 1210. PRaT is the best I've heard in years. WOW! To give you some idea of how big the soundstage is think about this. I have several pairs of speakers with varied bass drivers, my ATC's have an 8" bass driver, my celestion ditton 44's a 12" bass driver and my Tannoy's a 15" driver. The ATC's produce a wide soundscape that beats them all and the bass is truly rock solid, tuneful and extremely deep. I#m getting more and more convinced that this could be my next upgrade. Far better than a new phonostage!

[MikeMusic]

The P10 appears to be very sensitive to cabling. I PERSONALLY THOUGHT THIS WAS BULLSHIT


Certainly is. I experimented too.
Currently running an Ultimate stiffy, 2.6

It is also sitting on top of a Mana rack which I believe also helps a lot

[Wakefield Turntables]

I'm not messing around moving my whole kit, the p10 is currently sitting on lots of granite and sorbothane it's the best temporary solution I have to vibration isolation. The p10 will be going back in a few days :( I should be able to get another few hours listening in tonight. :eyebrows:

[MikeMusic]

I'm not messing around moving my whole kit, the p10 is currently sitting on lots of granite and sorbothane it's the best temporary solution I have to vibration isolation. The p10 will be going back in a few days :( I should be able to get another few hours listening in tonight. :eyebrows:
Hey mine hasn't moved since the night it came in
Oh I lie. I lifted up one side and put it carefully back down again
:)
Get hold of some Mana sometime. It really does work

[Mr. C]

You will find cables will make a large influence of the sound of the these units, which is quite odd given the white papers concerning their overall performance.

My issue with these the the lack of realistic dynamics , headroom restriction and a natural unforced pace.

If you have never had one of these type of mains cleaning devices in your system before it may well prove quite enlightening, however there is more than one way to skin a cat I believe.

General rule of thumb if you wish to really hear what these units can do, the best input mains cables you can afford, also isolate the unit from the floor, if you can give it its own shelf on a rack or a dedicated floor mount shelf then mores the better.

[MikeMusic]

a dedicated floor mount shelf then mores the better.

Interesting.
If I can rejig and make the place look fairly tidy I'll try that.
Need some help lifting the lump onto glass sitting on steel spikes too

[Wakefield Turntables]

You will find cables will make a large influence of the sound of the these units, which is quite odd given the white papers concerning their overall performance.

My issue with these the the lack of realistic dynamics , headroom restriction and a natural unforced pace.

If you have never had one of these type of mains cleaning devices in your system before it may well prove quite enlightening, however there is more than one way to skin a cat I believe.

General rule of thumb if you wish to really hear what these units can do, the best input mains cables you can afford, also isolate the unit from the floor, if you can give it its own shelf on a rack or a dedicated floor mount shelf then mores the better.

Hmmmmm. Yes and :nono: Yes to the possibility of a decent cable making a difference but certainly a big no to the unit loosing dynamics, headroom restriction etc, if anything these have improved immensely :trust: additionally the p10 doesn't clean the mains (like some isotek products) it regenerates them. I will be trying some more isolation tonight.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I've not updated this in quite a while. Well what can I say. I have had to get my Quadraspire customises to house a...........P10! I kept the bloody thing! I tried my original system over a weekend without the P10 and the same old problem occured. Sometimes the system sounded "on-song" with some records whilst sounding flat at times with others. I plonked the P10 back in and bingo, every record back on-song. The P10 has given me a stable, clean, re-generated mains supply. I'm hoping its going to be a component that can just sit in place and I can forgot about. I now have the valve system running from it as well and I have had a complete re-jig of the listening room. It's still a bit early to assess what effects the p10 has had on the valve system as I only listen to that occasionally. Yes it was costly, but I can honestly hand on heart say that it instantly upgrades a system. If you can afford one, buy one. :trust:

[MikeMusic]

Took me a while to accept that mains makes a difference. Surely this is all cobblers - I thought.
Started with a cheapo Kimber cable from Ebay then allowed myself to drift upwards as the improvements kept coming and then into regenerators.
Hearing Martin T's system and him say how important the P10 is pushed me into getting one.
It is one of the best upgrades I have ever made, might be the best.
Difficult, perhaps impossible for anyone who hasn't thought about mains and slowly improved mains to their hifi to comprehend that amount of money is honestly, really Value
To hear the difference in your system is the telling truth
Any high end system needs one to show the full potential
Any system that is being upgraded won't go wrong with one.
If anyone can justify it and wants a better sounding system can't go wrong