View Full Version : Now I don't like my amp???
I've just bought 2 bits of new to me kit. :)
An Ariston RD60 TT off Wee Tam :thumbsup: and a Pioneer SX-5000 receiver amp.
The old Pioneer has really unsettled me because I also have a 12 month old Yamaha as500 amp which I was perfectly happy with until I mated my Yamaha CDS300 cdp to the Pioneer...the sound blew me away.
Yet when I connected the Ariston TT to the Pioneer it sounded poor but great with the Yamaha.
So what gives?
Why should an amp from the 70's sound better with technology that wasn't around at the time yet a tt sounds poor. Is it just that the Pioneer's phono stage is rubbish compared to the Yamaha's?
I cannot be bothered constantly swopping speaker cables from amp to amp depending on what piece of equipment I want to listen to, so......
Should I get rid of both amps and buy something different and if so what (£200 limit) or should I invest in a separate phono stage for the Pioneer?
Please help as trees and short ropes are looking rather attractive ;)
walpurgis
20-05-2013, 18:46
I think you've figured it out.
Seventies gear was not all bad. Some Japanese amplifiers sounded remarkable.
The Pioneer phono stage, as you suggest is probably letting the sound down. If you like the overall sound, definitely use a separate, decent phono stage into the 'AUX' input. Dilemma sorted!
A Cambridge 540P or 640P phono stage would probably suit the Pioneer well without breaking the bank. They sound very good for the money.
Buy a cheap dedicated phono stage, £35-45 should get you a Cambridge Audio 540P (ok for the time being) and better than your Pioneer phono stage. Just connect it up to your line in inputs.
Great minds and all that!
I think you've answered your question John. Why not see if someone here has a half decent phono stage that they could lend you?
Recommendations above are excellent re the Cambridge as a good starting point...
Components in Jap gear of the 70's were rather better than the UK could usually get hold of, but that receiver is nigh on 40 years old and it's just possible the phono stage has drifted. I'm afraid that the concept of spatial and musical/emotional clues in the reproduction hadn't been thought of then in the burgeoning hifi industry of the early 70's. If it did get the emotions going, it was usually almost by accident, although I remember Peter Walker once saying that he "listened" to his then designs more for what they did wrong than what they did right, and tweaked these designs to make the less good bits as inaudible as possible.....
Good luck :)
Mr Kipling
20-05-2013, 18:51
If you don't really want to spend money, simply connect the Yamaha's Rec. Out to the Pioneer's Rec. In, for using your turntable with the Pioneer.
If you don't really want to spend money, simply connect the Yamaha's Rec. Out to the Pioneer's Rec. In, for using your turntable with the Pioneer.
Sorry to sound thick but how does that work?:scratch:
Audioman
20-05-2013, 19:13
To put this into perspective - I owned a Pioneer receiver in the 70's and it's replacement, the NAD 3020 blew it away. So Old 70's receivers are not that brilliant IMO. If you have a slightly bright sounding budget CD player the old amp masking some detail might make it more pleasant to listen to. I would suggest the onboard phono stages of both your amps likely leave a lot to be desired.
istari_knight
20-05-2013, 19:18
To put this into perspective - I owned a Pioneer receiver in the 70's and it's replacement, the NAD 3020 blew it away. So Old 70's receivers are not that brilliant IMO. If you have a slightly bright sounding budget CD player the old amp masking some detail might make it more pleasant to listen to. I would suggest the onboard phono stages of both your amps likely leave a lot to be desired.
Some of the 70's Marantz receivers have superb phono stages but on the whole I agree... lots were pants.
The important bit here Paul is that John likes the sound of the Pioneer so any issues about 70's receivers sounding a bit poo flies out the window. The previous recommendations for the Cambridge Audio 540p & 640p phonostages get my vote. As has been mentioned, they regularly sell for less than 50 quid and there is nothing to beat them out there for that price. They are also built well and look smart, plus when it comes to selling it on you should get your money back easily ;)
Mr Kipling
20-05-2013, 19:33
Sorry to sound thick but how does that work?:scratch:
Well, you just connect the tape out of your Yamaha to the tape in of your Pioneer. Selecting "Tape" on the Pioneer will connect the phono stage of the Yamaha at line level, with "Phono" selected on the Yamaha.
walpurgis
20-05-2013, 19:40
I think Shane may still have the 540P he offered for sale. See link:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=438132&highlight=540P#post438132
WOStantonCS100
20-05-2013, 19:59
I easily rate my decades old Pioneer SA-7500 and it's phono stage over my months old Onkyo TX-8050. After a recap and tweak of the 7500 (in progress), I'm sure the 8050 will see little use. I may keep it as a backup to the 7500, as the 7500 is a back up to my valve gear.
plastic penguin
20-05-2013, 20:17
I love some older (retro) stuff. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one as a second system but...
The main caveat is reliabilty. It is old and mechanical. It all wears eventually. If it has been modded or serviced recently it should be okay, otherwise I'd think twice.
WOStantonCS100
20-05-2013, 20:30
I love some older (retro) stuff. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one as a second system but...
The main caveat is reliabilty. It is old and mechanical. It all wears eventually. If it has been modded or serviced recently it should be okay, otherwise I'd think twice.
+1
All that's new eventually becomes old. Servicing should be expected. Other than pots and switches (relays) there aren't any "moving" parts in an amp; so, far less worries than say, a turntable, cassette deck or reel to reel. Vintage gear with no IC's (all discreet) are even better, IMHO. Once sorted, this type of gear is often more reliable than the new stuff. For one thing, it's already lasted 30 - 40 years. Recap/tweak and see another 30 - 40 years? We'll see. I bet my SA-7500 outlasts my 8050. :)
Thanks for all your replies guys. I think I'm gonna look for one of the CA phono stages you mentioned. Ive also seen a new Project, think it was around £70.
walpurgis
20-05-2013, 22:16
I've tried the Pro Ject units. The Cambridge will run circles round all of them apart from the pricier Tubebox versions, which maybe just have the edge, but not by much.
Plus there is a chap on AoS who can do some rather wonderful mods on the 640p so I hear. I forget his name though... :eyebrows:
plastic penguin
20-05-2013, 22:34
I've tried the Pro Ject units. The Cambridge will run circles round all of them apart from the pricier Tubebox versions, which maybe just have the edge, but not by much.
I suppose it boils down to the OP's kit. I'm not a fan of Cambridge equipment, having tried and owned various components. Recently purchased a DacMagic, and using my old Arcam CDP as transport, had more clarity and detail than the Arcam on its own steam, but reduced the experience to a sterile listen. The Arcam alone had more emotion IMO.
walpurgis
20-05-2013, 22:48
Not keen on the Cambridge DACs myself, I've had several. But the little phono stages are great for the money.
southall-1998
20-05-2013, 23:01
I think Shane may still have the 540P he offered for sale. See link:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?p=438132&highlight=540P#post438132
Nope, long gone!
Thanks for all your replies guys. I think I'm gonna look for one of the CA phono stages you mentioned. Ive also seen a new Project, think it was around £70.
Hi John, I have a couple of Phono stages, one is a CA 540P like the one Shane had for sale. It's boxed and hardly used. ( I bought an iFi stage)......let me know if you're interested.
Cheers
John
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