the great cable debate

[Daniel75]

g'evening

Why it's apparently impossible to measure changes which we are attributing to cryogenically treaded cables, audiophile fuses and the rest of those most controversial tweaks?

Surely, if one can hear the difference, and considering how imperfect our hearing is - this change can be also "heard" by much more accurate and sensitive equipment like, I dont know - same stuff which is being used for measuring rooms and speakers? Why one cant simply play favourite tune, put the mic where listening position is, record it , then repeat the process using different usb cable or whatever and compare the results?

Cant find an answer anywhere.

D

[realysm42]

Maybe our measurements are inadequate.

Some people say (and rightly too IMO) don't build your system on specs alone.

[Daniel75]

its more my curiosity - or rather desire to get some mechanical, unbiased result which will show that yes - there is a difference between standard and 500 pounds USB cable. And get some nice graph showing what kind of difference it is:)

[realysm42]

You might not get that dude.

[myles]

This cable thing is not a great debate. Trust your ears!

[chelsea]

This cable thing is not a great debate. Trust your ears!

Agreed.

[Xaval]

Maybe our measurements are inadequate.


If it sounds different and measures the same I'd figure it's a bit more than a maybe :)

[MikeMusic]

I'm sure it is measurable in some way.
I think it would be complex and still wouldn't give anything like the full 'picture'

I'm guessing DB meter and frequency range.

I gave up long ago and use my ears
:)

[Frankyc2003]

"We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we would let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines..." -- Nelson Pass

;);)

to paraphrase Marco's signature which I think is spot on!

[synsei]

I'm going to upgrade my ears then... :lol:

[AlanS]

g'evening

Why it's apparently impossible to measure changes which we are attributing to cryogenically treaded cables, audiophile fuses and the rest of those most controversial tweaks?

Surely, if one can hear the difference, and considering how imperfect our hearing is - this change can be also "heard" by much more accurate and sensitive equipment like, I dont know - same stuff which is being used for measuring rooms and speakers? Why one cant simply play favourite tune, put the mic where listening position is, record it , then repeat the process using different usb cable or whatever and compare the results?

Cant find an answer anywhere.

D


Hi Daniel

I sympathise with your thinking and offer this. It is far from impossible.

Do you do computer based audio? Rip CDs, stream from Itunes/Spotify?

If so you may be comfortable with saving to disc lossless files.

Basically put one of the two cables for comparision in your system. Setup your amplifier output port to record on your PC/Mac. Play a CD or stream a known source you can repeat. Record that source to a lossless disc file, 1.

Replace cable 1 with 2 and repeat the process, disk file 2.

You will have 2 lossless files that can be listened to by your and others, put through analysis software to compare them and highlight any differences between them if desired.

It isn't difficult it just may not be the type of thing your average trust your ears man is comfortable with doing.

It also avoids errors caused by your suggestion of playing in open air and trying to record that. Other environmental noises would be on those recordings so a compare would show background noise differences as much as anything else. Car going past that sort of thing.

If you do manage to do this or anyone else reading this you will be doing a service to the audio community but removing a topic of lively interest.

Any computer cable manufacturer worth their salt could do this. Downloads of files on their web site to prove the difference. Boost sales further.

Where there is a will there is a way. No manufacturer so far has shown that will. I wonder why it would guarantee sales if the were the first to do so?

Keep on trusting gents

If anyone has Cyrus gear their CD players had two output ports. I used to put one interconnect in each and into two input ports on my amp. One can switch between them in real time and avoid the embarrassment of ear trust - just listen to the difference switching inputs back and forth. Atfer trying three inter connects this way I gave up.

[MikeMusic]

Any computer cable manufacturer worth their salt could do this. Downloads of files on their web site to prove the difference. Boost sales further.

Where there is a will there is a way. No manufacturer so far has shown that will. I wonder why it would guarantee sales if the were the first to do so?


If/when one does it the floodgates will open.
It is strange really that no one has done it to boost sales
- or maybe they are worried that they can then be compared directly by numbers - of course our ears could still say we preferred the 'worst' one
:)

[AlanS]

If/when one does it the floodgates will open.
It is strange really that no one has done it to boost sales
- or maybe they are worried that they can then be compared directly by numbers - of course our ears could still say we preferred the 'worst' one
:)

I am trying not to prejudge too much but I guess in reality the differences would not be as strong as some people experience (with their ears/mind). So it wouldn't win sales. The lack of dramatic differences would put people off

Much better business by someone saying publicly "I bought XYZ cable and the world changed for me"

[MikeMusic]

I am trying not to prejudge too much but I guess in reality the differences would not be as strong as some people experience (with their ears/mind). So it wouldn't win sales. The lack of dramatic differences would put people off

Much better business by someone saying publicly "I bought XYZ cable and the world changed for me"

Or more likely none of the Muppets have thought of it !
:)

[DSJR]

The thing to do in the absence of double-blind officicial testing, something which audiophools fail every time apparently and for whatever reason, is to get a mate to switch between two cables if possible without you knowing which one is which. It is sometimes possible to hear and usually there are measured reasons why cable A might be better suited to system B than cable C and so on.

Furthermore in my view, what the total objectivists often seem to misunderstand is that music reproduction is an emotional thing. Couple this with the emotional connection hobbyists have with the gear they favour and lust after and you can easily see where much of this stuff comes from. I'm certainly not immune, having heard differences that others posting here don't notice (original Chord Co Solid being very directional for instance - maybe not now the cables are getting on for twenty years old?), but to totally trust my ears is also a step too far the other way for me, as it all then degenerates into personal opinion, rather than a balanced view - IMO of course :lol:

[Rare Bird]

When does all this cable swapping stop though Dave apart from booking a few sessions down the local psychologist!

Brains/Ears are very odd things, you can go years swapping & swapping, you ears telling you improvement, improvement as you go down the line, it's not only till years later on when you may get the chance to revisit some old cable to realise you have done nothing but downgrade!

I was like this listerning to CDee's for years, buying better players that my ears said yeh that's better! only to start using one of my very old CDP again it immediatly dawned on me an obvious going around in circles. N

However the biggi came when i started using vinyl again did i then realise what a prick ive been even entetaining CD in the first place. but that's me golden ears :eyebrows:

:lol:

[Tim]

it immediately dawned on me an obvious going around in circles
Ooo, must try this, must buy this http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/chasing-tail.gif (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/chasing-tail.gif.html) = :nono:


http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/woofer.gif (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/woofer.gif.html) = http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/thumbsup.gif (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/thumbsup.gif.html)