Dac for TV ideas?

[highstream]

In my desktop computer audio speaker quest, I ended up with a spare pair of Audioengine A5+ powered speakers, which I figured might be useful alongside my 40" LCD TV (and Patriot media box) in a 2.0 configuration. Thanks to a mass buy, I also picked up their D1 Dac to enhance the sound quality (massdrop.com - just noticed the D1 and A5+ are going again cheap for three more days). It certainly did help, but with Toslink for audio and USB for power I got lots of audio dropout (switching). From experimenting, the culprit seems to be power: 5v DC (D1) vs. 110v AC (e.g., Micromega MyDac).

So, I'm looking for Dac suggestions that fit with the modest nature of this TV setup. The only requirements are decent or better sound quality, direct AC (3 pin or 2), Toslink input and RCA out. Volume control not necessary. Thanks,

[Yomanze]

For me the Beresford DACs rule in this area. A 'good old' TC-7510 would be more than adequate for your needs... it does use a wall wart though (needs a small external supply), which may well not be for your needs.

[daytona600]

astell & kern for the digital toshlink output of the tTv then plug headphones in or connect to your hifi optical dac/preamp/headphones/24-192 server

[highstream]

Yomanze, thanks for the Beresford suggestion. It appears that the 7530 is not much more than the 7510. In terms of features, it's overkill for my needs, but at the price it's certainly cheaper than the MyDac, even with 25 GBP for shipping to the States.

daytona, I hadn't heard of astell and kern before, and after looking at their website, I'm not sure what you're proposing. Headphones are not part of my listening, except while traveling with a laptop and stuck bored in a motel room.

[Gazjam]

You'd be shocked Gene at how good this http://www.maplin.co.uk/digital-to-analogue-audio-convertor-504890 sounds for not a lot of money at all.

Just for the telly...sorted.

No power supply needed, runs on USB power.
Aside from a bit of bass grunt and the missing "x-factor" of my Rega Dac I'd have been happy with it if I was on budget - which I am.

Happily running one in my bedroom system hooked up to a Virgin tv box, AV server and DVD player.
Great wee thing.


*EDIT* Just noticed your not in the UK, still, if you can get one its beer money for a great Dac.
Ideal for what you want to do with it.

[highstream]

Thanks Gazjam. At this point, unless someone can figure out why a USB-powered Audioengine Dac can't handle Toslink-Samsung TV switching very well, using mains (AC) power appears to be a necessity. AE tech support wasn't willing to concede that it is AC vs 5v DC, but the fact is that their D1 sound cuts out a lot - turning the TV on, switching between TV and media box, reverse/forward USB videos on the box, and even occasionally changing channels quickly on the TV. Had enough of it. The mains powered MyDac has momentary static when switching devices and turning on/off (TV), but sound has yet to drop out. The only thing is that it's pretty expensive just for a 2.0 TV setup.

[daytona600]

daytona, I hadn't heard of astell and kern before, and after looking at their website, I'm not sure what you're proposing. Headphones are not part of my listening, except while traveling with a laptop and stuck bored in a motel room.

has a optical dac input for your tv , preamp for volume etc etc + headphones if required + portable for laptop in a motel



http://www.scottnangle.co.uk/page_27.html

[Bluedroog]

Fiio D3, smal, cheap and punches above its weight.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/FiiO-192KHz-Digital-Analog-Converter/dp/B005PWPUW6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368268040&sr=8-1&keywords=Fiio+dac

[Kvaal]

TDA 1543 mini-dac from ebay. This dac is probably as good as it gets in reproducing the human voice, which is important when you watch TV.

[highstream]

Thanks for the suggestions. I found an open box FiiO in San Diego for $14 shipped, so there's not much to lose in giving it a try.

A $50 dollar mini-dac from China is a lot riskier, given the switching issue. There seem to a few TDA1543-based Dacs out there, some that have overshadowed the Muse sonically. One of the others was developed several years ago by a Canadian, who produced 400 units and then let it go, until someone prompted him into coming up with extensive mods, which he's provided schematics and photos for. Not my cup of tea these days. The other, produced by a Parisian and given good reviews on computer audiophile, is now up over $200 assembled + shipping on eBay, unless one is willing to buy the board and put the rest together.

I should reiterate for anyone coming across this thread that the first criteria is the ability of the Dac to switch smoothly w/o sound dropout. I'm not sure if this is a hardware or firmware issue, but in my sample of two so far USB-AC Dac has problems and the one off the mains (110v AC port) doesn't (except for some hash when switching devices).

[Kvaal]

I use minijack - rca/phono lead from the headphone socket to the amp. It has got the advantage of letting me use the remote for volume adjustment. To ensure the right impedance for the headphone output, I have soldered two 150 ohms resistors on the input socket on the amp.

I`ve got four cheap dacs from ebay, in different versions (just to try out). No problems, except for one wall-wart that broke down. I like the sound of the old multibit-dacs.

[highstream]

Thanks. Before the dac, I used the TV headphone jack to the powered AE speakers and it was convenient with the cable remote. Adding a dac changed things. I get around it by using the Audioengine speaker's remote. Haven't tried to see if the TV cable remote will program it, but either way it's not as convenient.

The FiiO is one shot at a cheap dac. Which other(s) did you find worth trying? Switching is the big issue, then sound. I don't prefer a wall wart either, but for me it's primarily because it takes a better quality power cable out of the equation. In any case, it strikes me as extravagent to keep a $400 dac just for TV, a media box and a bit of music (cable or DVD). At the same time, I've got all these really good $50-$140 sound and video cables - power, speaker, HDMI and IC (My Audio Cables, Morrow, Mapleshade - which makes it seem odd to stick in a $15 or $50 dac. But whatever works and sounds (and looks) decent.

[tansen]

Another vote for Fiio Taishan..:)

[highstream]

Thanks. I'll know in a few days. Do you think there's any difference between these two:
http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-Digital-Analog-Audio-Converter/dp/B005PWPUW6/ref=pd_rhf_ee_p_t_1_D8CG
http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-TAISHAN-D03K-Digital-Converter-Support/dp/B009346RSS/ref=pd_rhf_ee_p_t_2_D8CG

I ordered an open box (used) version of the first.

[Alex_UK]

Just ordered a D3 so we can compare notes in a few days. :)

[highstream]

Mine came today and it works with my TV setup, though with a bit of hash when switching.

Right now, I'm wondering how much burnin it will need. Sound is sort of flat dimensionality or spatially out of the box (and a touch hard).

[Stubies]

Mine came today and it works with my TV setup, though with a bit of hash when switching.

Right now, I'm wondering how much burnin it will need. Sound is sort of flat dimensionality or spatially out of the box (and a touch hard).

Look forward to hearing your review after burnin!

I have a hole to fill and this might work.

Stu

[highstream]

My sense right now after about 40 hours, and remember this is a 2.0 TV set up, is that its soundfield is two dimensional and a it's bit on the hard side. Not something I would want to live with in the long run. Have to see...

[MartinT]

The Beresford DACs are excellent with TV sound. I used to run a Caiman and now use a Bushmaster. The quality of TV audio is really excellent when run through a good quality DAC and far better than using the audio outputs on the equipment. I use optical from Sky HD and co-ax from my Blu-ray player.

[highstream]

Thanks, Martin. Don't know if you saw the discussion last week in the Beresford thread, but the overhead in dealing from the States and with Beresford himself are a bit much for me. I'm filling in with a cheap FiiO D03K right now, which switches fine but so far is sonically nothing to get excited about (two dimensional, hard). I'm leaning toward ordering a Grant Fidelity TubeDac-11.

[Kvaal]

http://www.head-fi.org/t/514782/bryston-bda-1-dac-vs-muse-dac-reviewed

This rewiev inspired me.

[highstream]

Thanks for the suggestion, but it happens that I had already considered the Muse. What really struck me is how many people feel the need to modify it and/or add an external power supply to improve the sound. Changing a tube is one thing, but drilling the case and changing electronic parts is another. Even then, while some love it, others find the highs harsh. What the Bryston sounds like is not really relevant.

[MartinT]

Ah, sorry Gene I had forgotten that we talked about it. In any case, a good DAC will transform your TV viewing experience. Good luck!

[Kvaal]

I think you should try the Muse, not only concider. It is no big loss if you don't like it, but a big gain if you do. I like it a lot, and harsh is the last word I will use. Best reproduction of the human voice I have heard. I have som delta/sigma-dacs as well, and they have been harsh when new.

The best dac -chip of all is the famous TDA 1541a, which is the big brother of the TDA 1543 you find in the Muse. You can hear they are related.

People tend to tweak anything.

[twotone]

You'd be shocked Gene at how good this http://www.maplin.co.uk/digital-to-analogue-audio-convertor-504890 sounds for not a lot of money at all.

Just for the telly...sorted.

No power supply needed, runs on USB power.
Aside from a bit of bass grunt and the missing "x-factor" of my Rega Dac I'd have been happy with it if I was on budget - which I am.

Happily running one in my bedroom system hooked up to a Virgin tv box, AV server and DVD player.
Great wee thing.


*EDIT* Just noticed your not in the UK, still, if you can get one its beer money for a great Dac.
Ideal for what you want to do with it.

Just bought one of these today, thanks for the link, fantastic thing especially for the money.

I've just sold an Arcam CD23T and can honestly say that this thing isn't that far away in terms of sound. Bass is really good.

Noticed a bit of lag in the sound when I was watching the tv though, I'm using a toslink cable for that but cds played through a Sony Bluray player are brilliant.

Tony

[highstream]

twotone, thanks for the idea. I ordered a Grant Fidelity TubeDac Monday, so I missed out on my chance for a Maplin for now. I also notice lips and sound slightly out of sync sometimes, and wondered if it was having my speakers a little closer to me than the TV. But that sometimes made me think maybe it's the station or the cable company, not something here.

[MartinT]

I also notice lips and sound slightly out of sync sometimes

That's quite common when audio and video are processed via different paths.

My Sky HD box has adjustment, and I find 40ms delay on sound compensates for lip-sync perfectly. My Blu-ray player has no such adjustment, though, and can be a little painful depending on the exact disc.

[Yomanze]

Cool Martin I didn't realise you can do that. Assume the 40ms is a general setting or do you find it differs by DAC?

[MartinT]

It will slightly differ by DAC. I use a news channel and adjust while watching and listening to the news reader.

[highstream]

Sky HD box - is that the equivalent of the DVR that cable and satellite companies commonly rent out in the States?

[MartinT]

Yes Gene, a Sky HD box is a hi-definition satellite receiver and digital recorder dedicated to the UK Sky service. We don't rent them, they are purchased but at a heavily subsidised price. Mine is a 500GB Samsung but they are made by Thomson, Pace and Amstrad too.