View Full Version : Cartridge output advice
Hi guys, apologies in advance as no doubt this topic has been extensively covered before.
Anyway:D
I've recently bought a SH Goldring 900IGC MM cart from Dave (synsei) of this parish and I really like it.
Previously I've been using a Denon DL-110 which I bought SH about two years ago and which I always go back to after trying out other carts.
However I like the Goldring but it is very very low output (3.4mv I think) and it's starting to get on my nerves :doh: for the usual reasons such as when I forget to turn the volume down when I use another source which has already seen a fuse blow in my speakers and I've only had the cart for less than a week.
Anyway before I go back to the Denon is there anything I can do to improve the situation like using a phono amp or SUT or something similar?
My TT set up is an AR The Turntable with an AT 1120 arm hooked up to a A&R A60 amp with onboard MM stage and played through a pair of JR149 speakers which are wall mounted with the JR wall mounts.
Listening to other sources such as my FM tuner are fine however digital sources are by far the best sounding with this (amp/speaker) set up and I'm just wondering if analogue just isn't really suited to the amp and speakers even though they are both from the analogue era.
The reason for changing the Denon, apart from wanting to listen to other carts, is that I think it may actually be on the way out as some of my vinyl is starting to sound noisy betwen tracks that I didn't really hear before but that might just be that the records are getting older.
Thanks
Tony
The denon is 1.6mv output, did you use a SUT with it? 3.4mv is quite a good output.....
The denon is 1.6mv output, did you use a SUT with it? 3.4mv is quite a good output.....
No just fired the phono leads for the TT into the mag input of the amp.
I can use the Denon with the volume knob on the amp set to about 2 or 3 oclock but with the Goldring i have to go round to about 6 oclock for roughtly the same volume level.
The previous owner of the Goldring said that the cart was pretty quiet/low output.
"It is quite low output for an MM cart (3.4mv IIRC)."
I asked because the Goldring is higher output than your old cartridge, in fact it's 5mv output so something does not add up...
I asked because the Goldring is higher output than your old cartridge, in fact it's 5mv output so something does not add up...
Isn't the Denon a different type of cart though, it's a high output moving coil cart which can be played through an amp's mm phono stage.
I also had a shure md75e mm cart & an AT 91mm cart hooked up to the TT/amp set up and those played at about the same volume level as the Denon.
Thanks
Had a look at the cartridge database on vinyl engine and accoding to that the Goldring, as pointed out above, has an output of 5mv, the Shure cart 5mv, the AT 91 3.5mv and the denon 1.6mv.
Not sure what's going on wrt the Goldring, can anyone explain?
http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_database.php?m=Goldring&t=any&mod=G-900+IGC&sort=1&Search=Search&sty=&ovlo=&ovhi=&can=&dclo=&dchi=&stid=&masslo=&masshi=¬es=&prlo=&prhi=
The 900IGC behaved in exactly the same way in my system and it was the chap I bought it from who told me it had an output of 3.4mv, I never thought to doubt him. I should point out that I am running what is effectively a new (NOS) Goldring G820se in my deck now and I am still having to turn the volume up on my pre to a similar level to that which I used with the 900IGC.
The 900IGC behaved in exactly the same way in my system and it was the chap I bought it from who told me it had an output of 3.4mv, I never thought to doubt him. I should point out that I am running what is effectively a new (NOS) Goldring G820se in my deck now and I am still having to turn the volume up on my pre to a similar level to that which I used with the 900IGC.
Hi Dave, the cart sounds fantastic mate.
As I type this I'm listening to Kind Of Blue and it's probably the best I've ever heard that album on vinyl but I'm listening with the amp turned up to half past five on the volume knob:eek:
That can't be right given that the Goldring has an output nearly four times that of the Denon and is equal to the Shure. Surely I would be turning the amp down with Goldring, no?
The big problem I've got is that I've got a digital DAB module plugged into the amp and if I switch over to that at the volume I'm playing the vinyl at then the windows are going out:doh:
Here's the amp manual for anyone interested, this manual is for a later amp but the MM stage is more or less the same as mine.
The specs are on page ten
http://www.audiosmile.com/forum/Manual/A60%20HANDBOOK.pdf
Tony
As I said Tony, I am having to turn the volume control up to the same level using this cart too so I doubt it is an issue with the 900. Having said that, if you can't live with it then all I can suggest is that you pack it up and send it back to me and I will refund you your money.
As I said Tony, I am having to turn the volume control up to the same level using this cart too so I doubt it is an issue with the 900. Having said that, if you can't live with it then all I can suggest is that you pack it up and send it back to me and I will refund you your money.
Thanks Dave that's very good of you to offer mate, please don't think I'm having a go at you here, I'm not, I'm just trying to understand what's going on but I am a complete noob as far as cartridges go:doh:
The cart sounds wonderful to me I just want to be able to control the volume better that's all and if that means getting something that helps in this regard then that's what I'll do hence the post.
However I may take up your kind offer.
Tony
I am at a loss to understand it too. The difference in volume between my flat and phono inputs on my pre is pretty negligible. Bearing in mind I am currently using a T-Amp as a power amplifier with at best 15wpc available, using the flat inputs, a comfortable listening level can be had at around the 9 o'clock position on the DR5. Using the phono input and with either the 900IGC or 820se installed that increases to around the 11 o'clock position which is a ratio I have experienced pretty much with all my vinyl systems going way back to the early 1980's :scratch:
EDIT: Have you tried other carts into your MM input, and what were the results?
I am at a loss to understand it too. The difference in volume between my flat and phono inputs on my pre is pretty negligible. Bearing in mind I am currently using a T-Amp as a power amplifier with at best 15wpc available, using the flat inputs, a comfortable listening level can be had at around the 9 o'clock position on the DR5. Using the phono input and with either the 900IGC or 820se installed that increases to around 11 o'clock which is a ratio I have experienced pretty much with all my vinyl systems going way back to the early 1980's :scratch:
Hi Dave, I've just put the Denon back on the TT and the volume level on the amp is now at 3 oclock vs 5.30 oclock for the Goldring but the sound quality of the Denon is nowhere near the Goldring.
The Denon is good but the Goldring is in a different league IMO.
Think I would rather live with the Goldring and cope with the volume thing than live with the Denon.
:cool:
Hi Dave, I've just put the Denon back on the TT and the volume level on the amp is now at 3 oclock vs 5.30 oclock for the Goldring but the sound quality of the Denon is nowhere near the Goldring.
The Denon is good but the Goldring is in a different league IMO.
Think I would rather live with the Goldring and cope with the volume thing than live with the Denon.
:cool:
I'm no expert but I am wondering whether this might be an issue with your MM input Tony. Kinda hoping that someone with way more experience will come along soon to ask you the right questions. What phono stage are you using matey?
I'm no expert but I am wondering whether this might be an issue with your MM input Tony. Kinda hoping that someone with way more experience will come along soon to ask you the right questions. What phono stage are you using matey?
Hi Dave, it's just the onboard MM stage in my amp which is an A&R The A60.
Been thinking about getting a phono stage anyway but I've read that the A60 MM phono stage is pretty good however I wouldn't know but it does sound decent to me.
Hi Dave, it's just the onboard MM stage in my amp which is an A&R The A60.
Been thinking about getting a phono stage anyway but I've read that the A60 MM phono stage is pretty good however I wouldn't know but it does sound decent to me.
I've not owned an A60 but there are those on AoS who shout their praises at every opportunity so that speaks volumes. Has yours been recapped at all Tony?
Rare Bird
05-05-2013, 17:20
It is but i think i prefer the early Version with the discrete Phono stage circuit not the later one with NE5532 op amp.
Tony is reporting that he needs to have the volume control up to the half past five position to get a comfortable listening level on hos A60 André and that doesn't tally with my experience in my system. Could it be that there may be a component out of spec on the MM board in the A60, perhaps a cap?
Rare Bird
05-05-2013, 17:45
O right. However ive used a '900' with an 'A60' before with no issues like this..Re the caps, i don't think the caps that make up the RIAA EQ are Electrolytics, i think they are polystyrene so kinda doubt it's them.. Do you have another Cartridge to try before looking more indepth into components..
I've not owned an A60 but there are those on AoS who shout their praises at every opportunity so that speaks volumes. Has yours been recapped at all Tony?
Aye Dave the amp has had a full re-cap and service.
It's an early amp with the Mag p.u input at the phono connection and Aux input instead of CD plus all Din sockets rather than phono sockets.
I've re-installed the Goldring and I'm now listening at the same position as the Denon (3 Oclock) and it sounds fantastic in comparision, it's a wee bit quieter but maybe not as much as I thought.
I've upped the tracking force to 1.5g
Turned up to half five though it sounds fantastic.
For ref I'm playing Kind of Blue
O right. However ive used a '900' with an 'A60' before with no issues like this..Re the caps, i don't think the caps that make up the RIAA EQ are Electrolytics, i think they are polystyrene so kinda doubt it's them.. Do you have another Cartridge to try before looking more indepth into components..
Hi Andre, I'm comparing the Goldring to a Denon-DL 110 and I've also had a Shure M75ED type two and an AT-91 on the TT recently and they all played at about the same volume but the Goldring needs the volume knob on the amp turned up quite a bit more than those other carts.
Don't get me wrong you can play the Goldring at about the same volume level as the other carts but it really does need the extra volume to listen to it properly.
Tony
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