Turntable set-up advice

[Clothears]

Rather foolishly I decided that I couldn't be bothered with vinyl anymore, so at the beginning of last year I packed it all in and sold off my system, though mercifully I kept hold of the majority of my record collection. However, this year I found myself missing playing a few of my LPs so decided to get myself a basic turntable for just occaisonal use. I subsequently bought myself a mint Rega P3 complete with RB300 arm and Rega Bias cartridge off another forum. Nothing too fancy, played through my Creek Evolution 5350 amp with Creeks own internal phonostage.

Overall I'm pretty pleased with the results but I can't help but think that I could improve things a touch. My feeling is that possibly the Bias cartridge could be the weak link, rather than the phono stage. I don't want to spend a fortune, just keep things proportionate, so what MM cartridge up to around the £150 mark do you think might pep things up a bit? Maybe the phono stage could be improved on in the future, but at this stage I think I'll just look at improving the cartridge if I can.

Any thoughts gratefully welcomed.


Cheers

Dave

[myles]

The Denon DL110 or Ortofon 2M Blue are very good at this price point.

[Clothears]

Thanks.

I notice that you have a Planar 3 with the Ortofon 2M Blue. That was something I was considering, and my nearby dealer (Doug Brady Hi FI) offered me a good deal on one with fitting etc.

Also I see that you have an acrylic platter rather than the glass. What improvements does this bring about, and where did you source yours from if you dont mind me asking?

Cheers

[stupinder]

The Denon DL110 or Ortofon 2M Blue are very good at this price point.
this

[myles]

Thanks.

I notice that you have a Planar 3 with the Ortofon 2M Blue. That was something I was considering, and my nearby dealer (Doug Brady Hi FI) offered me a good deal on one with fitting etc.

Also I see that you have an acrylic platter rather than the glass. What improvements does this bring about, and where did you source yours from if you dont mind me asking?

Cheers

I was given the platter, but from what I can see it is like the Groovetracer platter. It changed the sound and revealed a bit more detail. Unfortunately I am not very scientific when it comes to upgrading. I might not make advances, but more likely change the sound to something I like.
The 2M Blue is a damned good cart though, you could do a lot worse.

[Johnnie7]

yea id say the 2m blue is very good or the nag mp110 is a new kid on the block with a slightly sweeter sound more like the denon dl 110 or dl160

all of these carts will need the arm raised up 1 or 2 mm ...not too high or the arm may hit the lid (if its a larger rear weight fitted)

hope that helps

bw
j7

[DSJR]

The Goldring 1042 always sounded good in the Rega 3, although my jury's out on its sonics elsewhere ;)

[myles]

yea id say the 2m blue is very good or the nag mp110 is a new kid on the block with a slightly sweeter sound more like the denon dl 110 or dl160

all of these carts will need the arm raised up 1 or 2 mm ...not too high or the arm may hit the lid (if its a larger rear weight fitted)

hope that helps

bw
j7


Interesting you say that about the arm needing raising by 1 or 2 mm. I have the 2m blue and the arm looks flat, but I have the origin live vta adjuster sitting here doing nothing so I might fit it and see what comes about. I presume one of those headshell spirit levels would be a good investment.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I've never understood the wisdom of a headshell spirit level. It has a mass and you're placing it onto a beam (the arm) which is supported at one end on a spring (the cantilever). How can you measure a beam for level if the very device you are measuring with alters the height at one end of the beam?

[Anti Meep]

How about the Rega Elys2 or Exact2? Not sure of pricing but I've heard good things about both. Won't need to worry about paying out for spacers as the VTA will be bang on.
I thought those spirit levels were for Azimuth as the one and only I have seen mounted across the headshell. My limited experience with VTA has left me not so worried about how level the arm is and more interested in just how it sounds. My Well Tempered arm is actually a little tail end down with the DV20x and sounds about right for my woolly old ears.
Craig.

[DSJR]

Interesting you say that about the arm needing raising by 1 or 2 mm. I have the 2m blue and the arm looks flat, but I have the origin live vta adjuster sitting here doing nothing so I might fit it and see what comes about. I presume one of those headshell spirit levels would be a good investment.

Since the tracking angle of so many cartridges still appears to be too steep, having the arm a mm or two down at the rear is no big deal and always preferable (unless you're a Decca owner ;)) to having the arm set too high - in my experiences with Rega decks and arms!

The 2M range should fit the Rega shape headshell just fine and a little bird tells me that they are a straight fit to a Rega deck and arm, not at all needing the pivot end to be raised at all, whatever it looks like!

Roy Gandy had very definite views about VTA and why, in his opinion, it was something obsessively fussed over in some quarters quite un-necessarily.

[myles]

Well, it sounds good at the moment so I'll avoid fiddling for nil returns. Thanks.

[Clothears]

Thanks for the replies everyone, much appreciated and food for thought.

I was thinking about the Rega Elys 2 and there was a brand new one going for £50 on Ebay a couple of days ago, less than half price. Nearly pulled the trigger but got side tracked and by the time I'd gone back to look it had been sold not surprisingly.

I used to have a Goldring 1042 on my old system and enjoyed it greatly. However it is a little bit over budget.

I'm in no rush really so I'll keep my eyes out and see if any bargains come up.

Cheers

Dave

[Canetoad]

You can always buy a lesser model, say the 1012GX and update the stylus at a later date. Mind you, styluses seem to cost almost as much as a complete cartridge. :doh:

[AlfaGTV]

Since the tracking angle of so many cartridges still appears to be too steep, having the arm a mm or two down at the rear is no big deal and always preferable (unless you're a Decca owner ;)) to having the arm set too high - in my experiences with Rega decks and arms!

The 2M range should fit the Rega shape headshell just fine and a little bird tells me that they are a straight fit to a Rega deck and arm, not at all needing the pivot end to be raised at all, whatever it looks like!

Roy Gandy had very definite views about VTA and why, in his opinion, it was something obsessively fussed over in some quarters quite un-necessarily.
Now, i dont have your experience DJSR, but here i have to protest! :)

The 2M's are the most sensitive to VTA carts i've had on my Rega's (both decks and arms)
And on a bog std P3 your arm base will be about 4mm to low when fitted with a 2M compared to a Rega cart.

All i my own opinion and experience of course!
Regards Mike

[vacdac]

Hiya Myles,

Firstly I think these aftermarket VTA adjusters are in general a good idea with Rega arms(I had a Technoarm until last year).....however in the instance of Rega arms I don't actually think a bubble level is necessary, as you can only adjust these arms in one plane (Vertical, Up/Down obviously) & its fairly easy & accurate enough too do this by eye. I know aftermarket shims are available, but I'd take the range + speed of adjustment of a proper VTA adjuster every single time.

Some carts tho' offer the possibility of a small range of adjustment for azimuth.....IIRC my Ortofon Rondo Red does.....I think there must be a small range of compliance in the mounting.:scratch: I daresay they may also offer this on some of their other carts too.:scratch: In this case a H/Shell B.L. would be as much use as a chocolate teapot as the H/Shell is still fixed in t' horizontal plane....but it's a good feature & at least offers some opportunity to fine tune any channel imbalance.:thumbsup:


interesting you say that about the arm needing raising by 1 or 2 mm. I have the 2m blue and the arm looks flat, but I have the origin live vta adjuster sitting here doing nothing so I might fit it and see what comes about. I presume one of those headshell spirit levels would be a good investment.


I've never understood the wisdom of a headshell spirit level. It has a mass and you're placing it onto a beam (the arm) which is supported at one end on a spring (the cantilever). How can you measure a beam for level if the very device you are measuring with alters the height at one end of the beam?

As already alluded I don't really see the need for h/shell bubble levels at all for fixed h/shell arms which only offer adjustment for VTA as to my mind your eyes should be good enough.

Course any arm you can also adjust for azimuth, whether fixed or removable h/shell, then I think they become an invaluable tool. Always good to start from a level starting point & very small rotational twists when setting azimuth can cause fairly large channel imbalances. Best to know all is level at setup IMV.......then any channel imbalance can be known to be a QC inconsistency with that particular cart & you can adjust azimuth accordingly.

I wouldn't worry overly re your thoughts re the added weight of t' bubble level either....In my experience this is unlikely too have any significant effect unless your cart is extremely high compliance perhaps. The one I use only weighs 0.23g IMV/IME this shouldn't overload a carts suspension even if you don't back off a little on your VTF setting to account for this. The OC9ml ii that is currently mounted on my Jelly 750d is set @ 1.52g VTF for example & the recommended VTF is up to 1.75g so in this instance its within the reco'd tracking range in any case.

Even with the the added weight of the B.L. My guess would be that even if you were near the fat end of reco'd VTF for your cartridge, that this much added weight is extremely unlikely to upset/overload the suspension enough to lead to noticeable inaccuracies. If paranoid enough though, it's trivial enough to back off on VTF, as if you have decent scales you are dealing with a known quantity. Most arms that have calibrated C/Weights would be more than accurate enough to do this too.

[myles]

Thanks vacdac, appreciate the answer!

[vacdac]

You're welcome Myles,

Yeah as all my H/Shells offer azimuth adjustment, I've found t' diddy B.L. to be invaluable, particularly whilst I was waiting for my excellent 'Shuggy Arm collar' as there was no consistency for azimuth being correct whenever I swapped carts.....& this is summat I do fairly frequently.

However with the collar in place & my carts all setup in H/Shells once I've set VTA correctly for each H/Shell there's no nasty drift in azimuth level when I swap. Still me being me, I still use t' B.L. each & every time.:lol: Lol, I'm not beyond additional checks, just for the hell of it from time to time & to assuage any residual paranoia/ocd on any given day.:rolleyes:

Duophonic....on e-bay do the full set of 3 levels inc t' H/shell one for only £7.99 & I use all three in conjunction when leveling my Gyro s.e. Pocket money for a really useful set of setup tools. There would certainly be no harm in using one for setting VTA level on fixed azimuth arms. If your deck is not sited at a comfortable level you may even find that its easier to judge correctly using one of these rather than struggling to see whilst bent/hunched etc.

BR

Chris.


Thanks vacdac, appreciate the answer!

[Clothears]

I was given the platter, but from what I can see it is like the Groovetracer platter. It changed the sound and revealed a bit more detail. Unfortunately I am not very scientific when it comes to upgrading. I might not make advances, but more likely change the sound to something I like.
The 2M Blue is a damned good cart though, you could do a lot worse.


..and the 2M Blue was what I finally went for. Like a bloody idiot I damaged my Bias stylus last night. Must be more careful in future :doh:

Took my P3 down to the dealers today and got them to fit the new cart and it's sounding great.

[DSJR]

Now, i dont have your experience DJSR, but here i have to protest! :)

The 2M's are the most sensitive to VTA carts i've had on my Rega's (both decks and arms)
And on a bog std P3 your arm base will be about 4mm to low when fitted with a 2M compared to a Rega cart.

All i my own opinion and experience of course!
Regards Mike

The 2M Blue is sensitive to setup, frustratingly so I understand from a pal who used one. However, I ought to say that VTA is easily adjusted with downforce fine-tuning too, and although others disagree, on a Planar3 or P3, adding spacers to lift the arm *can* cause other audible issues IMO - ON THIS DECK......

As always, check the main bearing nut for firm tightness, the arm nut (if an RB300) similarly, as both loosen as the wood compresses with disastrous sonic results, change the mat (a thin cork one may well solve the VTA conundrum too :)) and see if the motor is the fixed version post 2000, as this makes a far bigger difference to sonic presentation IMO than the slightly too fast running suspended motor previously used. A white belt may be a good idea while you're at it IMO and ALL of these things will affect the reproduced sound more than a mm or so at the arm pivot (height) - IME :) The main bearing only has a couple of drops of EP80 oil at the factory and this can dry out. A clean and re-charge with a few more drops wouldn't hurt here either.

P.S. The AT440MLa may be worth a look too on this deck..