Same owd, Same owd

[Rare Bird]

What i notice these days is most people's system are as the title sugests! Why is this? Can't people think for themselves?

[The Grand Wazoo]

Not many people have tried or been able to hear as many different pieces of gear as you Andre, so they go with what they have access to or what's tried and tested.

[Audio Al]

What i notice these days is most people's system are as the title sugests! Why is this? Can't people think for themselves?

They may go with the flow not knowing what is better / best , we all don't have you knowledge do we

[Marco]

Never ever take notice of the chepooka the gloopy industry throws down your froowert..


Chepooka? I'm lovin' that one! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Never eva tek noowertis er wat chepooka industry frows darn yer froowert

[Thing Fish]

Never eva tek noowertis er wat chepooka industry frows darn yer froowert...:scratch:

[istari_knight]

...:scratch:

+1 wtf? :lol:

Birds of a feather plays a role too I'd guess, there's loads of Technics 1210's on here, PFM's full of Naim & ATC and the wam has its "kondo mafia"

I like it, at least more than yesteryear when it was all about what got 5* reviews in the rags :rolleyes:

[Mr Kipling]

. . . the wam has its "kondo mafia"

I buy Tat Hi-Fi.

[walpurgis]

I just listen and buy what sounds right. Or if I can't demo, what I think may sound right.

I am totally uninfluenced by fad or fashion and seldom by opinion. My system is an unusual collection of components including somewhat obscure items, but it sounds sublime. Visitors, including those with a bit of H-Fi knowledge are usually amazed at the sound I'm achieving. Synergy is what it's all about.

[Thing Fish]

I Change a piece of hifi roughly every 20 years so I will be lucky to have listened to 3 different amplifiers in my lifetime...:lol:

[Macca]

Be careful tat buyers - you don't want to end up like me:

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/tat001.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Macca_photos_2009/media/tat001.jpg.html)

[synsei]

I reckon my system is quite an eclectic collection of gear and collectively it sounds fabulous. I buy stuff I think I'll like as it is impossible for me to demo anything. If it don't sound quite right in me system then it usually gets hoiked out the door again and onto ebay, this is how I fund upgrades to my system and I don't often make a loss these days ;)

[Gordon Steadman]

Never having head the expression before, can you tell please, which of these it relates to (or to which etc) I was trying to figure how thinking I was werewolf was connected to my HiFi

[Rare Bird]

Yorkshire colloquialisms

T'owd (An Old)
owd (Old)

[Reffc]

I seem to have "drifted" from one piece of kit to another for years, in most cases either because of poor choices made from a synergy POV or because the bit of kit in question rarely lived up to expectations (or perhaps some of the hype surrounding it). I've never been taken with any single brand enough to have a branded system. Mix and match according to taste and budget tends to describe more accurately my approach. Have recently started to design and make some of my own kit and enjoying the experience and satisfaction that gives.

[twickers]

It makes sense though. After all the reviewers know what there on about and it takes all the time and effort out of having to select the different bits of kit yourself.

Not only that, they'll let you know exactly how it should sound, so if it's any different when you get it home then it's a problem with your room or your ears. ( or indeed the mains). :lol:

Makes sense.What else have you got to lose?

[Audio Al]

Be careful tat buyers - you don't want to end up like me:

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/tat001.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Macca_photos_2009/media/tat001.jpg.html)


Quality Martin Quality :D

[chelsea]

Sorry but what is the question?

[jandl100]

What i notice these days is most people's system are as the title sugests! Why is this? Can't people think for themselves?

Yeah, I do know what you mean, Andr'e.

In my recent search for my next tt, I was offered a heavily pimped Techie 1210. Hey, it's gonna sound good, right? Right!

But where's the fun in following the herd? :scratch: So I decided against that and have gone my own sweet way again. :)

[Marco]

And long may you continue to do that, Jerry! I'm continually on record here for telling people to 'think outside the box', in terms of their equipment choices, and always promote left-field thinking.

I rely on gut instinct, when choosing kit, as well as my experience, and will often take punts on things, based purely on the former - it's the only way you learn and discover new things, unless you're a boring basturd, happy just using the 'same old, same old', and following other people's lead... ;)

Marco.

[Audioman]

What i notice these days is most people's system are as the title sugests! Why is this? Can't people think for themselves?

Andre. Not clear what you are getting at. Are you talking about general systems comprising of the same old brands (Linn, Naim, Rega etc) or people on this forum that rush out and spend £1000's because certain people say get a certain TT or this or that SUT and everything else is bollocks?:)

Paul.

[Yomanze]

What i notice these days is most people's system are as the title sugests! Why is this? Can't people think for themselves?

You notice incorrectly...

[JazzBones]

What i notice these days is most people's system are as the title sugests! Why is this? Can't people think for themselves?


I guess its down to personal choice Andre, don't get your jocks in a knot over it :D. Personally, it does not bother me what people choose to listen to or what they use use as long as it does not keep me awake at night. Consider that for some people they have got it right in the first place, like a good marriage, and others find enjoyment by box hopping finding nothing satisfies for long and so the merry go round spins. Enjoy whats left of your life mate and don't angst over trivia :).

[MartinT]

T'owd (An Old)
owd (Old)

Oh, I don't know. I quite like Obsessive Werewolf Disorder myself. How can I sow that into a hi-fi discussion?

[walpurgis]

Be careful tat buyers - you don't want to end up like me:

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/Macca_photos_2009/tat001.jpg (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/Macca_photos_2009/media/tat001.jpg.html)

That little lot is going to make for an impressive table full at the boot sale!





I'm just as bad. Here's a shot of my den taken this morning. I'm halfway though a couple of refettling jobs, so there's stuff everywhere.

http://i41.tinypic.com/33nhxmh.jpg

[Rare Bird]

You notice incorrectly...

You obviously don't notice it.. You know & i know a lot of people do not make decisions soley by themselves! havent they learned anything in the past?

This forum alone: take the amount of Techy TT users! every other new member has one (the thing is most of em miss the point displayed by Marco & Martin's Techy recreations) the novice ending up not that over joyed, but it serves them right because in basic form they are tripe imho :lol:) So what do they do, they come on hear crying for help because they dropped a bollock that in reality would be financially draining to reach anthing near the stage Marco & Martin has reached hence they will end up flogging it in the long run..

Ive said this over & over again, you do not get anything unless you work at it..Everything (real world) is made to a price point.

File bases system are rife (Sorry but this is not Hi-Fi imho) Only time i use files in an hour or so browsing on the computer with headphones, no way on earth would i take it seriously in a million years. It's just an easy way of creating the illusion of good sound..

I'm one to talk my Hi-Fi is all prehistoric junk but hey at least im original & think for myself.. :) At least i don't buy pretty Hi-Fi because the wifey says i have to..At least i don't look down on 40 year old Hi-Fi cos it's old fashioned looking etc etc..

[Marco]

You obviously don't notice it.. You know & i know a lot of people do not make decisions soley by themselves! havent they learned anything in the past?

This forum alone: take the amount of Techy TT users! every other new member has one (the thing is most of em miss the point displayed by Marco & Martin's Techy recreations) the novice ending up not that over joyed, but it serves them right because in basic form they are tripe imho :lol:) So what do they do, they come on hear crying for help because they dropped a bollock that in reality would be financially draining to reach anthing near the stage Marco & Martin has reached hence they will end up flogging it in the long run..

Ive said this over & over again, you do not get anything unless you work at it..Everything (real world) is made to a price point.

File bases system are rife (Sorry but this is not Hi-Fi imho) Only time i use files in an hour or so browsing on the computer with headphones, no way on earth would i take it seriously in a million years. It's just an easy way of creating the illusion of good sound..

I'm one to talk my Hi-Fi is all prehistoric junk but hey at least im original & think for myself.. :)

Lol... Great post, mate, and in many cases, so true!

Marco.

[MartinT]

Ive said this over & over again, you do not get anything unless you work at it..Everything (real world) is made to a price point.

I couldn't agree more. It takes careful selection, matching and listening to the results. You need to put a bit of work into hi-fi to make it sound good, it doesn't just happen on its own.

[Covenant]

You are utterly and completely wrong about file based systems Andre but I know you won't change your mind....

[Joe]

What i notice these days is most people's system are as the title sugests! Why is this? Can't people think for themselves?

It's always been like that. Most people just buy what the mags and/or their dealers recommend, rather than faffing about with the infinite possibilities offered by box-swapping.

My own main system (currently out of action pending a move from valves to ss) has consisted of a changing mixture of flavour of the month stuff, combined with opportunistic purchases of secondhand items at a good price. The upstairs system, by contrast, has remained basically unchanged for 15 years.

[Yomanze]

You obviously don't notice it.. You know & i know a lot of people do not make decisions soley by themselves! havent they learned anything in the past?

>> You said "most people", which is an exaggeration. Every forum has its sheep, but so what?

Ive said this over & over again, you do not get anything unless you work at it..Everything (real world) is made to a price point.

>> I agree that finding synergy between components takes a lot of work (naturally I notice a lot of synergy between my LFD components), but there are (generally cottage) manufacturers out there that don't think about price points, only the music.

File bases system are rife (Sorry but this is not Hi-Fi imho) Only time i use files in an hour or so browsing on the computer with headphones, no way on earth would i take it seriously in a million years. It's just an easy way of creating the illusion of good sound..

>> It is quite a technical activity to get computer-based audio close to a good CD transport, and is very tweaky in the process.

I'm one to talk my Hi-Fi is all prehistoric junk but hey at least im original & think for myself.. :) At least i don't buy pretty Hi-Fi because the wifey says i have to..At least i don't look down on 40 year old Hi-Fi cos it's old fashioned looking etc etc..

>> One thing I like about this forum is that there's a lot of originality and diversity with peoples' setups, yet people aren't jumping down each others' throats about what's superior or inferior. You seem to be looking down on a niche faction of Techy sheep, but I don't think it's representative of AOS as a whole.



Responses above with >> :)

[walpurgis]

You are utterly and completely wrong about file based systems Andre but I know you won't change your mind....

Whatever sounds good, sounds good!

Hi-fi is an evolving craft with a lot of science (and hokum) thrown in. By nature it has to move onwards, or we'd still be using wax cylinder phonographs, but that principle does not necessarily relegate all that has gone before. Vinyl still is a great format. Tape buffs will also tell you what that can achieve, a good tape setup can be amazing. CD will be with us for a while yet too.

This is still early days for Hi-Fi. Let's face it, there has to be something new. We seriously need to get away from the 100 plus year old technology of moving coil loudspeakers for a start.

[Rare Bird]

I disagree we do not need to get away from it. Files belong to the computer domain imho.. If we designed a car (again) which levitated instead of driving on wheels would you still call it a car? No cos virtually everything about what makes a car has gone..

Everything i grew up with & enjoyed about hi-fi has gone with CD & File systems now, let alone sound quality..

[Audioman]

It's always been like that. Most people just buy what the mags and/or their dealers recommend, rather than faffing about with the infinite possibilities offered by box-swapping.
.

Now they just buy what Hi-Fi forums recommend and become dissatisfied box swappers.

On a serious note there is no point in aiming for what Marco and Martin have unless you know it suits you. For instance DDs and Techies have a certain sound signature that remains to some extent no matter how many improvements are made. You have to have some idea what sound you are aiming for and how to attain it based on experience as well as recommendations. Otherwise that is the same as basing a system on What Hi-Fi 5 star reviews. I notice there has been a rash of buying Ortofon SUTs with varying levels of satisfaction. It has to work in your own system so don't buy just because member X and Y say it's great in their setup.

[walpurgis]

I disagree we do not need to get away from it.

There has to be something better than waving a bit of cardboard or plastic about on the end of a coil and hoping to get accurate sound from it. Moving coil speakers are the sum of their flaws (much like everthing else) and it's quite amazing that we've achieved the kind of sound possible these days. But this is done by avoiding the worst characteristics and selecting those that meet the recipe best, but it's still an antiquated idea and we should be looking for something better. Electrostatics, plasma and isodynamic speakers etc., are still pretty specialised and expensive, so have yet to offer a real world alternative.

[Joe]

Now they just buy what Hi-Fi forums recommend and become dissatisfied box swappers.

On a serious note there is no point in aiming for what Marco and Martin have unless you know it suits you. For instance DDs and Techies have a certain sound signature that remains to some extent no matter how many improvements are made. You have to have some idea what sound you are aiming for and how to attain it based on experience as well as recommendations. Otherwise that is the same as basing a system on What Hi-Fi 5 star reviews. I notice there has been a rash of buying Ortofon SUTs with varying levels of satisfaction. It has to work in your own system so don't buy just because member X and Y say it's great in their setup.

Indeed, which is why I mostly shy away from recommending stuff; a component might 'work' for me, in my system, in my room, with my musical tastes, but it could well be a disaster for someone else. Buying secondhand mitigates the risk somewhat, as you won't lose as much selling on, but it can be a pain advertising, dealing with chancers and tyre-kickers, etc.

[Covenant]

There has to be something better than waving a bit of cardboard or plastic about on the end of a coil and hoping to get accurate sound from it. Moving coil speakers are the sum of their flaws (much like everthing else) and it's quite amazing that we've achieved the kind of sound possible these days. But this is done by avoiding the worst characteristics and selecting those that meet the recipe best, but it's still an antiquated idea and we should be looking for something better. Electrostatics, plasma and isodynamic speakers etc., are still pretty specialised and expensive, so have yet to offer a real world alternative.

My planar magnetic headphones sound excellent imho, and were not too expensive. If they could scale them up into speakers I would be seriously tempted....

[walpurgis]

My planar magnetic headphones sound excellent imho, and were not too expensive. If they could scale them up into speakers I would be seriously tempted....

They already have mate. Buy yourself a pair of Magnepan/Magneplanars. They do sound nice.

[Covenant]

I believe Maggies need a lot of juice though....

[Puffin]

No Thatcher jokes please.

[Harry Hill]

I believe Maggies need a lot of juice though....

But Quads, Logans and Eminent Technology don't need so much juice.

Although costs range from very little to mega money!

None will win any wife points though as most but not all are large.

:cool:

[Rare Bird]

There has to be something better than waving a bit of cardboard or plastic about on the end of a coil and hoping to get accurate sound from it. Moving coil speakers are the sum of their flaws (much like everthing else) and it's quite amazing that we've achieved the kind of sound possible these days. But this is done by avoiding the worst characteristics and selecting those that meet the recipe best, but it's still an antiquated idea and we should be looking for something better.

We best upgrade our Brains/Lug holes they are of course Millions of years old without a single upgrade, good going that.. :)

[AlfaGTV]

Some things you write André, are quite true. But why would you tell people differently? And if they followed your recommendations would they make more "individual" and "correct" choices in your opinion? :scratch:
Nah, come on...

There are reasons why folks of a similar mindset herd together on foras like these! ;) An other reason is the fact that well regarded hifi is easy to buy and sell with no loss or even some profit, which means you can gain lots of experience and learn more without ruining yourself!

Besides, you are very "wrong" in your opinion on "computer" based audio! You are very welcome, any day, to sample some exquisite digital sounds! :stalks:

Best regards Mike

[Marco]

Hi Mike,

With Andre, you have to remember that his dislike of computer audio has very little to do with how good it sounds or otherwise, but rather the whole concept behind it and how negatively this sits with his mindset and lifestyle choices, based on emulating his version of late 1960s/early 1970s living. It wouldn't matter a damn how 'phenomenal' computer audio sounded, the whole idea of it is alien to his desired way of living.

I totally 'get' where he's coming from in that respect and in many ways desire the same thing myself. I certainly appreciate the values Andre holds dearly, which many aspects of modern living conspire against!

Anyway, there have been some good posts on this thread, which I'll address later :cool:

Marco.

[AlfaGTV]

You are right Marco, i just got a little worked up when being told what to feel and like! :lol:

André may have a point or two in his choice of lifestyle/attitude but that can hardly stop the rest of us from evolving?
What i can appreciate though, even if that didn't emerge in my post, is the fact that older HiFi can (and most often will) sound boh better and be of better quality than todays kit!

Regards //Mike

[Covenant]

But Quads, Logans and Eminent Technology don't need so much juice.

Although costs range from very little to mega money!

None will win any wife points though as most but not all are large.

:cool:

Yes, most are too big for me. There are some smallish M.Logans though that are on my radar.....

[RichB]

Old gear vs new gear

Digital vs analogue

What a lovely world where we can pigeonhole so easily. Me I have and enjoy both and many sources in my love of music. None is more pure than another, with live performance being the only real pure source.

Some see the world in black and white, I see shades of grey with occasional splashes of colour.

Can help the feeling that dear Mr Bird was looking to stir the waters with the tone and nature of the opening posts though.

[walpurgis]

I'm not knocking older principles and old equipment. I use such myself, but the only way has to be forward, because that's the way humans work.

In comparative terms digital technology (at its current level of development) is pretty new, but no doubt in say thirty years, what we use now will be thought of as 'old hat'.

If there is a direction that takes us towards real advancement in sound quality, I'd say take it.

[Rare Bird]

Hi Mike,

With Andre, you have to remember that his dislike of computer audio has very little to do with how good it sounds or otherwise, but rather the whole concept behind it and how negatively this sits with his mindset and lifestyle choices, based on emulating his version of late 1960s/early 1970s living. It wouldn't matter a damn how 'phenomenal' computer audio sounded, the whole idea of it is alien to his desired way of living.

I totally 'get' where he's coming from in that respect and in many ways desire the same thing myself. I certainly appreciate the values Andre holds dearly, which many aspects of modern living conspire against!

Anyway, there have been some good posts on this thread, which I'll address later :cool:

Marco.

Thanks Marco
Im glad you can put things across better than me, im crap at it & end up not getting my messages across properly :lol:

[steviej233]

You all have very valid points, and i am afraid that i have fallen into the trap of looking at mag reviews and based buys on them. Until i found this forum i had no idea where to start and so that seemed like a logical place, i no that you don't have to spend a fortune on hi-fi but i don't have the funds or the patience to buy something and then find out it is sh*t and then go through the rigmarole of trying to get rid of it.

I can appreciate what you are saying about going digital as half of the new gear out there is trying to achieve an analogue sound so why complicate things? I have just brought a pioneer n-50 which is a music streamer and it is a bit of a faff to set up, but i am almost there and it sounds F-ING brilliant it has given my system a new lease of life (once i have it set up i will write a proper review). I read a 5 star review and then read reviews that consumers had written and they couldn't be more varied!

I think as long as it sounds good and you enjoy it then thats all that matters! :cool:

[MartinT]

We look forward to your review, Steve. We're always up for hearing about new equipment, especially high value for money. Even more so now that the much loved Logitech Touch is no more.

[realysm42]

I can vouch for the n50, heard it last night; even with a sub optimal set up, it made a huge difference to the sound (a positive one).

[Harry Hill]

Yes, most are too big for me. There are some smallish M.Logans though that are on my radar.....

Jerry, have a look at the Eminent's standmount if small is what you are looking for.
Dave:cool:

[Covenant]

Jerry, have a look at the Eminent's standmount if small is what you are looking for.
Dave:cool:

Yes, there is a HIFI Pig review. Ticks all the boxes for me. Better start saving!