Question about Croft amps

[Rowlf]

I am quite keen on Croft amps now although I have never heard one and seriously, I better go find out where it could be demo around London.

One question for experienced Croft amps users, how would you describe the Croft sound? Do you find the Croft "flavour" more evident in the pre or the power section?

[DSJR]

No real flavour at all in actual fact. Just a clean sound that retains the emotional connection with the music without added artifice..

Walrus and AudioFlair are your two "local" dealers and of course "our" hifi dave is one of the longest standing Croft dealers out there - since the mid 80's when Glenn started.

[The Black Adder]

Adrian at Audio Flair is great to deal with. I got my pre and power from him... :)

[Canetoad]

I would say my Croft Micro 25 pre is neutral sound wise. I run it through a Sony power amp which is slightly dark. Detail is excellent and the music has a very nice fluid quality about it. It's very good at portraying all the emotion present in the music. :)

I just get annoyed with the seperate volume controls.

Honestly, I love what it adds to my system. It has never sounded better!

[Rowlf]

Thanks Dave and Joe. Budget being a concern, if I have to choose between a pre or a power, which would you recommend that I buy first? Or do you think the synergy could not be fully realised without having the matching pre and power?

[Canetoad]

I'd go for the pre first. That's where most of the gains will be in my opinion. :)

[Macca]

If you want the benefit of the valvey goodness then try the pre-amp first, the power amps are hybrids anyway - the current range that is. The microbasic/series 7 combo is very good, well matched to each other and reduces the gain issue with the pre - which is only an issue on the line stage anyway. If you are not using a TT you will not get the full benefit of the micro-basic as the MM stage is the real star of the show. I've not heard any of the R series. Walrus in London W1 were demming a micro basic when I was in there late last year - speeks were a 3 way standmount 'made locally'. Playing plinky plonk dem music through an MF Cd player but still obviously a quality sound and easy on the ear.

Hope that little ramble helps.

[dgolh]

I'd go for the pre first. That's where most of the gains will be in my opinion. :)

Seconded.

[The Black Adder]

Yep.. Pre first. His pre amps are astonishingly good for the money. The Micro 25 is one of the best pre's I've had and for £700 (inc. MM stage, £500 without) it's a no brainer. I'd defenately would suggest the mid range Micro 25 though as it can be upgraded to the R where the basic pre cannot... But I can tell you that the basic is an amazing bit of kit too, just not as refined.

What is your budget?

[DSJR]

The preamp is basically neutral, and the fact it has valves in my view is secondary. Using valves the way Glenn does makes for a very simple point-to-point circuit (good IMO!), very long lived components and a fundamental picture into what the source component is giving you. Tube-rolling can make for a subtle change of perception in the soundfield, but in the broad scheme of things, I wouldn't say these tweaks make a huge difference to the basic honest reproduction quality.

I blow hot and cold on the twin volume pots BUT, if these were replaced with either expensive stepped attenuators, or, if available, click-indented standard pots, I really do believe life would be much simpler for those that find two controls a pain - it's part of the "personality" of the brand, so I can imagine why Glenn is reluctant to change it... A bit like NVA using thermal glue, wooden battens and perspex for their cases and internal mountings, or AVI only recommending all-in-one active speakers, denouncing all others :)

[Rowlf]

Thanks guys, very useful information there and getting me excited already. I am all for neutral. My "warm" sounding addiction days were over.

The Micro 25 Basic was probably more at my ball park but looks like all of you were in favour of heading straight to the Micro 25 pre.

I am more a MC person than MM. Is a SUT used with the Micro 25 in order to use MC cartridges or Glen could modify the amp to accept MC? Anyone tried?

I noticed to twin volume pot as well and I can't quite get it too. Why why?! But if you guys are determine to overlook it for the sake of the sound quality, it is really saying something about the amp.

Will try to get in touch with Adrian and hope he opens on Saturday.

[The Black Adder]

The twin pots are really quite handy imo and you get used to them really quickly. I was like most in thinking that it would be a problem but I really like them now. Put it this way, since I've been using the pre's I've not missed having a single pot.

MC could be done I'm sure, but you would need to ask Glenn.

[Marco]

Valve MC phono stages are quite hard to produce quietly, i.e. without them sounding noisy, due to the high gain required. Far better results, IME, are obtained from using a valve MM phono stage and an MC SUT.

Furthermore, with Croft MM stages being built into the main unit, which are very high quality for very low cost, you can afford to spend decent money on a good SUT and, sonically, obtain jaw-dropping results :exactly:

Marco.

[hifi_dave]

Croft will not, definitely not, add or adapt to suit MC cartridges. In his mind, the Decca based cartridges are so much better than any MC that he won't entertain the idea.

Anywho, a decent MC step up x'mer is most probably the best way to go and into a Croft phono stage, the results are quite wonderful.

[Canetoad]

Yep.. Pre first. His pre amps are astonishingly good for the money. The Micro 25 is one of the best pre's I've had and for £700 (inc. MM stage, £500 without) it's a no brainer. I'd defenately would suggest the mid range Micro 25 though as it can be upgraded to the R where the basic pre cannot... But I can tell you that the basic is an amazing bit of kit too, just not as refined.

What is your budget?

I have a Micro 25, now just updated to R spec. I love it!

If I'd settled for the basic I'd have to sell it to get to where I am now. Being able to upgrade is a definite plus. I'd try and get a Micro 25 2nd hand if you can. It might take a while but they can be picked up for a monkey (£500). The upgrade to R spec costs £500. Considering that the R spec retail is £1400, that's the bargain way to get to an R spec Micro 25.

Glenn had a quick turnaround on mine too, since the cricket season hadn't started. :lol:

[Reffc]

I'd echo the comments on the Croft Micro 25 pre. Probably one of the finest preamps for the money available anywhere and my own personal favourite (which is why I use one!). The phono stage is really very good and an SUT into the phono is definitely the way to go as others have said for MC use.

[kininigin]

I've had both the Micro Basic and the Micro 25.Both are excellent value imo.If funds can stretch,i'd recommend the Micro 25,but i'd quite happily live with the basic version.

Unfortunately i had to sell my Micro 25 to fund a trip,but as soon as i get back,it will be the first thing i will buy ;)

[Thing Fish]

Bought my micro 25 pre and series 7 power amp in used but mint condition for £430 each. Bargain imho.

Big step up from my old Naim amps.