Epos comparisons

[pjdowns]

Hi all,

I have been looking around and see you can get the Epos ES22 loudspeakers for upto around £450.

Currently I have a pair of ES14's which were designed by Robin Marshall and believe that he also was involved in the development of the ES22's

Would the ES22 be enough of an upgrade on the ES14's, obviously being floorstanders I suspect they'll go quite a bit lower in the bass department and that is all I am really looking for as the overall presentation of the ES14's works for me.

Obviously another option would be a Subwoofer, but The ES14's are pretty damn quick and I'd be concerned whether a sub could keep up and thus sound out of place.

Your thoughts and advice would be much appreciated.

Paul.

[hifi_dave]

I wouldn't swop ES14s for ES22. The original was carefully designed, lovingly crafted by the designer. The ES22 isn't.

As for the floor-stander going "quite a bit lower in the bass department". Why should that be ? Often, all you get with a larger cabinet is more waffle and colouration.

[YNWaN]

I agree.

[DSJR]

Paul (used to) uses his Es14's without the port bungs and we had a bit of a polite disagreement about it, so what this means is that the ES22 and especially the 30 may be right up his street, although both do seem to prefer bi-amping as the speaker terminals aren't linked without some wiring being done to the speaker leads.

In the view of a good few here (those that have sold them retail {at least two of us} owned and used them {substantially more:)}), the ES14 is a lasting classic which still has a firm following today. I'd look at improvements elsewhere in the system as these speakers are quite able to reproduce them - in my opinion...

[YNWaN]

...in my opinion...

And in mine :).

[f1eng]

I wouldn't swop ES14s for ES22. The original was carefully designed, lovingly crafted by the designer. The ES22 isn't.

As for the floor-stander going "quite a bit lower in the bass department". Why should that be ? Often, all you get with a larger cabinet is more waffle and colouration.

All the speakers I most enjoy the sound of are stand mounted, even the big ones like Harbeth Monitor 40s, Yamaha NS1000s, Proac EBS and Goldmund Epilogs.
Whether it is because they transfer less waffle to the floor or something else I don't know, but this thread just made me realise it!

[hifi_dave]

And quite a few speakers which look like floor-standers are, in fact, a smaller speaker built onto an empty box. Looks like a floor-stander but sounds like a stand-mount.

[Sovereign]

I had the ES11's for a year or so, I loved them for their speed and insight, but I really wanted a larger more realistic sound, the ES22's that followed gave more of that.
I had the ES22's for 6 months or so and really appreciated them but I went to large OB's after the ES22's that gave me more of what I was after

[jandl100]

All the speakers I most enjoy the sound of are stand mounted, even the big ones like Harbeth Monitor 40s, Yamaha NS1000s, Proac EBS and Goldmund Epilogs.
Whether it is because they transfer less waffle to the floor or something else I don't know, but this thread just made me realise it!

I had the 'floorstanding' Epos ES30 and found they sounded much better, imo, on short stands. Really cleared up some congestion in the upper bass / lower mids. Nice speakers - I bought and sold them for a rather good £500 a few years ago.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/EPOSES302-1_zps34568585.jpg (http://s262.photobucket.com/user/jandl100/media/EPOSES302-1_zps34568585.jpg.html)

[Mika K]

I wouldn't swop ES14s for ES22. The original was carefully designed, lovingly crafted by the designer. The ES22 isn't.

As for the floor-stander going "quite a bit lower in the bass department". Why should that be ? Often, all you get with a larger cabinet is more waffle and colouration.
Have had the ES11s and also ES14s for a short while and also think that with ES22 you would most likely got just something different with other problems. It could be interesting to try ES14s with quality sub but means it's not going to be cheap try as quality subs are not cheap..

[pjdowns]

Paul (used to) uses his Es14's without the port bungs and we had a bit of a polite disagreement about it, so what this means is that the ES22 and especially the 30 may be right up his street, although both do seem to prefer bi-amping as the speaker terminals aren't linked without some wiring being done to the speaker leads.

In the view of a good few here (those that have sold them retail {at least two of us} owned and used them {substantially more:)}), the ES14 is a lasting classic which still has a firm following today. I'd look at improvements elsewhere in the system as these speakers are quite able to reproduce them - in my opinion...

Hi Dave,

I do remember those discussions about the ES14's and the bungs; personally I still much prefer the sound without them in place. Much more open sound, with them in its like listening to boxes as apposed to the music..also the bass appears deeper (maybe through a small amount of boom) but once I added the second XVIII and Bi-Amped them this seemed to sort things out.

My biggest problem is that I have not heard a significantly better speaker for under 3k which makes upgrading these a rather expensive process and SWMBO seems to think we should spend that sort of money on the house instead :(

Paul.

[DSJR]

Then I respectfully suggest you spend the money on the house, or put some towards some music perhaps ;)

The 22's and better, the 30's, do respond well to bi-amping and will give you the bass you seem to like, but I'd hate it for you to change and later regret it...

[pjdowns]

I think I'll stick with the ES14's - it seems the most sensible option to me at the moment...

Thanks for the help all :)

Paul.

[navigator]

Heard 22i version at £550 I regret not buying them -fast clean live in room sound superb bass control nice imaging -they were eating big current [big marantz]about 3 feet from walls I just could not afford.
I got smaller 12i-amazing when fed amps and mounted solidly- these rendered telegraph rd loud and clean at scalford show to some acclaim.
Personally enjoy bw 705 .Some minor mod and careful cable selection gets bass output up- tho its still an issue for many .Perhaps you could try diff connects and or cables -solid core as in house mains cable is amazing [try abit of ring main on one speaker so as to compare as experiment! ]
As I age the bw 705 higher upper mid and treble helps make up for poorer hearing more than 12i can. But I continue to to yearn after 22i. you and others are right re sub choice-they need super fast one loadsa dough or don't bother.
spect uve been advised room placement/arrangement stuff?

[pjdowns]

Heard 22i version at £550 I regret not buying them -fast clean live in room sound superb bass control nice imaging -they were eating big current [big marantz]about 3 feet from walls I just could not afford.
I got smaller 12i-amazing when fed amps and mounted solidly- these rendered telegraph rd loud and clean at scalford show to some acclaim.
Personally enjoy bw 705 .Some minor mod and careful cable selection gets bass output up- tho its still an issue for many .Perhaps you could try diff connects and or cables -solid core as in house mains cable is amazing [try abit of ring main on one speaker so as to compare as experiment! ]
As I age the bw 705 higher upper mid and treble helps make up for poorer hearing more than 12i can. But I continue to to yearn after 22i. you and others are right re sub choice-they need super fast one loadsa dough or don't bother.
spect uve been advised room placement/arrangement stuff?

David,

If you heard the 22i and liked them, and stumped for the the 12i, I would consider getting hold of a second hand pair of ES-14s because you will love them. The ES14s were designed by Robin Marshall who knew exactly what he was doing, where as the 22i and 12i were not, however, they do use the same design principles.

After some serious consideration, I have decided to stay with my ES14s as they are simply the best speaker I've heard under 2/3k which is saying something considering they are a early 1980's design.

Paul.

[YNWaN]

Good decision IMO

[plastic penguin]

Hi all,

I have been looking around and see you can get the Epos ES22 loudspeakers for upto around £450.

Currently I have a pair of ES14's which were designed by Robin Marshall and believe that he also was involved in the development of the ES22's

Would the ES22 be enough of an upgrade on the ES14's, obviously being floorstanders I suspect they'll go quite a bit lower in the bass department and that is all I am really looking for as the overall presentation of the ES14's works for me.

Obviously another option would be a Subwoofer, but The ES14's are pretty damn quick and I'd be concerned whether a sub could keep up and thus sound out of place.

Your thoughts and advice would be much appreciated.

Paul.

Sorry for joining this thread late.

I'm a big fan of Epos 'M' range, although not heard the ESs. If memory serves me well I think Mordaunt Short had their drivers produced by Epos in the 90s - or vice versa. Might be worth tracking down some MS Pearls or similar.

Personally I'd look at PMC GB1s (not + or i ranges). They can be picked up as cheap as chips, around £500-£600 mark.

[pjdowns]

Sorry for joining this thread late.

I'm a big fan of Epos 'M' range, although not heard the ESs. If memory serves me well I think Mordaunt Short had their drivers produced by Epos in the 90s - or vice versa. Might be worth tracking down some MS Pearls or similar.

Personally I'd look at PMC GB1s (not + or i ranges). They can be picked up as cheap as chips, around £500-£600 mark.

Hi Richard,

I have heard the GB1s and whilst they have significant more bass, they are not in the same league from an overall / musical perspective compared with the ES14s.

If I was going to upgrade the ES14s, I might consider the OB1s as I have heard them and liked them but they are still around £1500 / £2000 on the second hand market which is a little out of my price point at present.

Paul.

[spikeanded]

Hello,

I was wondering what floor stands would be suitable for the Epos ES30 just to raise them off the floor a little? Thanks.

[seoirse2002]

I would consider getting hold of a second hand pair of ES-14s because you will love them. The ES14s were designed by Robin Marshall who knew exactly what he was doing, where as the 22i and 12i were not, however, they do use the same design principles.

I've got ES 12s and really like them...they weren't designed by Robin?

[pjdowns]

I would consider getting hold of a second hand pair of ES-14s because you will love them. The ES14s were designed by Robin Marshall who knew exactly what he was doing, where as the 22i and 12i were not, however, they do use the same design principles.

I've got ES 12s and really like them...they weren't designed by Robin?

I don't think so, it is my recollection that he designed the ES14's first then moved onto the ES11's.

The ES12's and subsequent speakers such as the ES22, ES25 and ES30 were all designed using the same design principles (quality components, limited crossover) so had a similar sound.

It has to be said that I had a pair of ELS3's for a short period and although Epos are now owned and manufactured by Creek, the overall sounds presentation was very similar to the older non-Creek models.

It's just a pitty that I fell out with Mike Creek and his son Luke a few years ago, otherwise I would have had a look into their models more, but that falling out left me with such a bitter taste in my mouth that I won't go anywhere near their products again.