Rega Brio-R phone stage, bypass with external - recommended?

[Gmanuk101]

Got the Rega-Brio R.

Decent phono stage on it, but I am wondering for under £250 could I get a better phonostage at all?

Cheers

G

[hifi_dave]

I doubt it very much.

I've tried quite a few, far more expensive phono stages against that in the Brio-R and not one has sounded better - within sensible prices that is.

[DSJR]

And the apprentice and I were there when some of the comparisons were done!!!!!

Rega are vinyl people first and foremost - and probably valves too if Terry the designer has anything to do with it. The emotional connection with the music is of paramount importance to the chaps at Rega now they have some twenty or more years of electronics design and construction behind them and believe me, their phono stages MUST be good, even in their cheapest amps, since that's the number one source for them still. I'm not saying they forget digital, far from it ;) but vinyl reproduction is anything but an afterthought.

If you were to double your budget to the cost of the amp itself, you might possibly find something (start with the Croft and work upwards from there). A pal has a Brio R and a £600 Slee phono stage. In direct comparison, he finds the Brio R phono stage superior - and this is a chap who's spending obscene amounts of money a month on good used LP's :)

[Thirsty Dog]

Sorry to but in, but this is extremely encouraging, as a Brio-R is on my purchase radar :)
Do you think they are tailored towards Rega's own turntables, or would the suit others as well?

[DSJR]

I would say, but then I'm supposedly biased :eyebrows: that you can use this with anything half decent and get a good predictable result. Rega's cartridges range from the "jump in with both feet" Bias to the low output, lightning fast and ADHD suffering Apheta :lol: which obviously needs a step-up.

Apparently, the £200 Fono is directly related to the phono stage in the Brio R :)

[hifi_dave]

Sorry to but in, but this is extremely encouraging, as a Brio-R is on my purchase radar :)
Do you think they are tailored towards Rega's own turntables, or would the suit others as well?

Anything you want, within reason.

I regularly use Rega's own, various Ortofon 2M, Sumiko, Audio Technica, Grado etc. No problemo, so long as it's decent.

[Audioman]

I am using a Rega Fono MC and it is excellent. Need to spend quite a bit more to clearly better it and it is widely compatible and adjustable. Unfortunately Rega appear to be phasing the MC version of the Fono out to replace with their new MM/MC which I believe is going to be in £1K + territory? Perhaps hi-fi Dave could fill us in on this. There is a worrying up market + premium price shift with some of Rega's products. Just hope they aren't going to abandon mid price products like much of the market has done.

[hifi_dave]

I am using a Rega Fono MC and it is excellent. Need to spend quite a bit more to clearly better it and it is widely compatible and adjustable. Unfortunately Rega appear to be phasing the MC version of the Fono out to replace with their new MM/MC which I believe is going to be in £1K + territory? Perhaps hi-fi Dave could fill us in on this. There is a worrying up market + premium price shift with some of Rega's products. Just hope they aren't going to abandon mid price products like much of the market has done.

Far from it. Rega are well aware that their core market is affordable, great value products. They sell close to 1000 RP1 turntables per month, for instance. They are covering everything from budget to expensive (but not silly) to high end.

The long awaited Aria phono stage should be here any day now - fingers crossed. It is £800, MM and MC on two separate inputs and various loading options. It is based on the outgoing Ios circuit and sounds very good indeed.

[Gmanuk101]

thanks for the replies chaps, I will be leaving it for now and concentrate on upgrading my source :)

[hifi_dave]

The Brio-R is good enough to be used with front and rear ends in far higher price brackets than it's £498 would suggest.

[Audioman]

Far from it. Rega are well aware that their core market is affordable, great value products. They sell close to 1000 RP1 turntables per month, for instance. They are covering everything from budget to expensive (but not silly) to high end.

The long awaited Aria phono stage should be here any day now - fingers crossed. It is £800, MM and MC on two separate inputs and various loading options. It is based on the outgoing Ios circuit and sounds very good indeed.

That sounds good value but is a big jump from Fono MC if that disappears. Also previous IOS was improved and put in fancy case - up from £1500 to 4K. Now that sounds like high end pricing to me.

[hifi_dave]

That sounds good value but is a big jump from Fono MC if that disappears. Also previous IOS was improved and put in fancy case - up from £1500 to 4K. Now that sounds like high end pricing to me.

The Reference Ios is not the same as the Ios. Similar but components and wiring have been changed. Plus, there is the superb casework which some people like to pay a premium for. The sonic difference between the Ios and Ios Ref are quite noticeable.

The £4K price is definitely significant but it stacks up well against all the usual telephone number products.

[wiicrackpot]

Rega's cartridges range from the "jump in with both feet" Bias to the lightning fast and ADHD suffering Apheta :lol:

I did just that and bought an Exact and got my arse bitten, by far the worst cartridge i ever came across by a wide margin and should never seen the light of day,
two records and it was back in it's box and begging the dealer to take it back and swapped for a 10x5 with 'no return' deal, never again.

What's ADHD?, i understand the ''suffering''.

[Audioman]

I did just that and bought an Exact and got my arse bitten, by far the worst cartridge i ever came across by a wide margin and should never seen the light of day,
two records and it was back in it's box and begging the dealer to take it back and swapped for a 10x5 with 'no return' deal, never again.

What's ADHD?, i understand the ''suffering''.

Years ago since I heard a Rega cartridge and it was crap - similar design to current models. This does not apply to the Rega R100 (Supex made?). One I regret not keeping when I upgraded everything 24 years ago. Can't understand why they just don't do rebadged Goldring as would be much better MMs.

BTW Dave I'm sure the suped up IOS is better sounding but if you factor in wiring new components and balanced connection it looks like nearly £2K for the casework.

[wiicrackpot]

Glad i wasn't the only one Paul,

so very well getting things made OEM but do they not listen to it before it gets released,
dunno.. maybe my sample was faulty. :doh:

[DSJR]

I did just that and bought an Exact and got my arse bitten, by far the worst cartridge i ever came across by a wide margin and should never seen the light of day,
two records and it was back in it's box and begging the dealer to take it back and swapped for a 10x5 with 'no return' deal, never again.

What's ADHD?, i understand the ''suffering''.

ADHD is something some kids suffer from - basically they're more "hyper" than usual - hence my description of the LOW OUTPUT MC Apheta design (capitals for the thickie twonks elsewhere who take everything literally (Aspergers) and deliberately don't read into the meaning behind the discussion at hand.

The Exact isn't strictly my cuppa either, but they DO vary and a good one is quite enchanting in its own way. I personally prefer something that can grab Richard Dunn and his two yes-men by the balls and swing him round at 33.3rpm :lol: :eek: :eyebrows: Maybe an SPU could do it, but it'd be a big waste of its talents :lol:

The 10XV is certainly a safe option though, but I'd like to compare one with a Benz to see what the differences are.

[DSJR]

Years ago since I heard a Rega cartridge and it was crap - similar design to current models. This does not apply to the Rega R100 (Supex made?). One I regret not keeping when I upgraded everything 24 years ago. Can't understand why they just don't do rebadged Goldring as would be much better MMs.



I'm currently using an R100 in the Zero 100. It has a flat but downtilted response shape, heavily bass-up and treble-down (a very audible if pleasant 6db tilt IIRC). The ears are so easily fooled and you soon get used to it, but it's not "correct" and was only really good for masking the screech and tinsel of the Linn and related undamped "flat-earth" speakers of the time - and I have to admit we did sell loads of R100's... Currently, the Sumiko mm types are directly related and sound similar perhaps, and the Garrott P77 (and the old A&R ones like the E77 especially) seem to share very similar bodies.

The Goldring 10** series isn't that good now IMO UNLESS they're going in a Rega deck and arm (P3 series mainly). The unrefined and slightly scratchy quality is tamed by the Rega deck and the deck sonics are livened u accordingly. I tried the 1042 in a variety of other turntable combinations and it's not really good enough and, IMO, easily bettered.

[hifi_dave]

Years ago since I heard a Rega cartridge and it was crap - similar design to current models. This does not apply to the Rega R100 (Supex made?). One I regret not keeping when I upgraded everything 24 years ago. Can't understand why they just don't do rebadged Goldring as would be much better MMs.

BTW Dave I'm sure the suped up IOS is better sounding but if you factor in wiring new components and balanced connection it looks like nearly £2K for the casework.

I'm not wasting my time defending Rega and their pricing policy. The Ref is a similat circuit to the standard but with balanced ins and outs, better components and casework. If they can sell them, which they are, they must be doing something right.

Look inside most high end/high priced kit and do you see value for your money ? No you don't and that's something which has been winding me up for a few years now. Look inside a £10K Ref pre from *** and there's naff all. The thing could sell for £2K and everyone would be happy. It's not often you can do a component count and arrive at anything like value for money.

As to Rega cartridges. They might not suit you but they sell in vast quantities and even little old me sells some every week in demonstrations. Can't be all bad !!!

[wiicrackpot]

1~ADHD is something some kids suffer from - basically they're more "hyper" than usual - hence my description of the LOW OUTPUT MC Apheta design (capitals for the thickie twonks elsewhere who take everything literally (Aspergers) and deliberately don't read into the meaning behind the discussion at hand.

2~The Exact isn't strictly my cuppa either, but they DO vary and a good one is quite enchanting in its own way. I personally prefer something that can grab Richard Dunn and his two yes-men by the balls and swing him round at 33.3rpm :lol: :eek: :eyebrows: Maybe an SPU could do it, but it'd be a big waste of its talents :lol:

3~The 10XV is certainly a safe option though, but I'd like to compare one with a Benz to see what the differences are.
@1-Thanks for the explaination, i am a thicko and still none the wiser. :rolleyes::D

@2-Thanks for the un-biased answer, i sure wasn't ''enchanted'' by it, :D
as for swinging the ging gang goolies of our symbiotic forum leader and his mates, i'll leave that to you, i am a Quaker and have my views,
my views are i'd be Quaking in my boots at the thought of trying to get RD in a headlock. :eek::D

@3- I had no bargaining power, taking the 10x5 as it was similar in price, funny you should mention a Benz,i moved onto a Lp Ebony years later. :cool:

[DSJR]

:lol: :cool:

[chelsea]

ADHD is something some kids suffer from - basically they're more "hyper" than usual - hence my description of the LOW OUTPUT MC Apheta design (capitals for the thickie twonks elsewhere who take everything literally (Aspergers) and deliberately don't read into the meaning behind the discussion at hand.

The Exact isn't strictly my cuppa either, but they DO vary and a good one is quite enchanting in its own way. I personally prefer something that can grab Richard Dunn and his two yes-men by the balls and swing him round at 33.3rpm :lol: :eek: :eyebrows: Maybe an SPU could do it, but it'd be a big waste of its talents :lol:

The 10XV is certainly a safe option though, but I'd like to compare one with a Benz to see what the differences are.

Shouldn't they all sound the same?

[Colin]

Sorry, but till you reach the apheta, rega carts really do sound that bad, at least to my ears. Maccy d sell thousand of burgers every day, would not want eat one myself either. As to the ios ref, some people must have deep pockets, the ios was worth the money, as much as anything in this game is anyway, and was ignored, out it in a pretty box and treble the price and it sells. Says more about the customers than rega though.

If the aria isbased on the ios, then does it have the inbuilt suts,or is it a high gain mc stage .

[wiicrackpot]

Sorry, but till you reach the apheta, rega carts really do sound that bad
Glad to know i'm not an 'army of one'.

[Beobloke]

The Goldring 10** series isn't that good now IMO UNLESS they're going in a Rega deck and arm (P3 series mainly). The unrefined and slightly scratchy quality is tamed by the Rega deck and the deck sonics are livened u accordingly. I tried the 1042 in a variety of other turntable combinations and it's not really good enough and, IMO, easily bettered.

With all due respect, Dave, where did you get that daft idea?!

The 1000 series work nicely in a huge variety of arms as well as Regas and I've had great results from them in the likes of Jelcos, Alphasons, SMEs, the Technics SL-1200's original arm and many others. Heck the 1012GX even works quite nicely in an SME 3009!

Also, what's this about an "unrefined and slightly scratchy" sound? Have you actually heard a 1042? Its treble is a joyous, sweet and lovely sound to behold. Are you sure you had it set up properly?! ;)

[Audioman]

With all due respect, Dave, where did you get that daft idea?!
Also, what's this about an "unrefined and slightly scratchy" sound? Have you actually heard a 1042? Its treble is a joyous, sweet and lovely sound to behold. Are you sure you had it set up properly?! ;)

:cool:

+1. Had a 1042 on a Linn Axis which transformed the sound over an ATF3. Excellent cartridges although now getting a bit pricey. Far superior to any Rega cartridge I have heard.

[DSJR]

With all due respect, Dave, where did you get that daft idea?!

The 1000 series work nicely in a huge variety of arms as well as Regas and I've had great results from them in the likes of Jelcos, Alphasons, SMEs, the Technics SL-1200's original arm and many others. Heck the 1012GX even works quite nicely in an SME 3009!

Also, what's this about an "unrefined and slightly scratchy" sound? Have you actually heard a 1042? Its treble is a joyous, sweet and lovely sound to behold. Are you sure you had it set up properly?! ;)

My ears trying them in different decks???!!!

The 10** series works, definitely, but would I want to listen to one long term outside of a Rega deck? I'm going to respectfully beg to differ on that one.

I have sold, fitted and listened to a good many 1042's. In a Rega 3, it works well, but my personal exoeriences were that outside of this comfort-zone, it sounds one-note in the treble - sweet? Not to my ears as all cymbals seemed to sound the same to me, one note in the bass and almost one-note in the midrange too. I have tinkered about with arm height, geometry and playing weight and honestly found it out-dated and not particularly pleasant. In a P3, it doesn't seem to sound this way for some reason.

Just my experiences like, and at the price now asked, I'd urge people to save a bit more for summat like a benz perhaps, or the safe 10XV ;)

[Beobloke]

My ears trying them in different decks???!!!


Woah, that's a bit of a revolutionary methodology. I suppose it might catch on... :D

Alright then we'll agree to differ on this one. I suppose we can at least agree on the merits of the Garrard AT6!

[hifi_dave]

Alright then we'll agree to differ on this one. I suppose we can at least agree on the merits of the Garrard AT6!



A lovely turntable - my first step up from the old record player. I bought one when it was first developed and plumped for that because I couldn't afford an SP25..:doh:

[DSJR]

Woah, that's a bit of a revolutionary methodology. I suppose it might catch on... :D

Alright then we'll agree to differ on this one. I suppose we can at least agree on the merits of the Garrard AT6!

You know, I tried to think of a good universal alternative to the 10** series and had some difficulty apart from two high output mc types (Blue Point and DL110) and maybe the Ortofon Vivo Blue, which needs a step-up I think.. I've had a couple of reports from pals who've tried the 2M Blue and both found it over-critical of setup etc, so maybe not worth the bother?

Anyway, since the 10** series is fairly widely available on the used market and new styli can be bought without difficulty, then maybe that's all there is?

[DSJR]

A lovely turntable - my first step up from the old record player. I bought one when it was first developed and plumped for that because I couldn't afford an SP25..:doh:

I have a need to play some singles again and have a choice of four players to play a stack of 'em on - lucky me :eek: :mental: The lab 80mk2 is too good, but the AT6 looks the part and the 60mk2 is better and quieter :) I'll leave the Balfour Princess in the HMV record player out of it this time :) - The Zero 100 needs an adaptor to play a stack of singles IIRC.

[Beobloke]

You know, I tried to think of a good universal alternative to the 10** series and had some difficulty apart from two high output mc types (Blue Point and DL110) and maybe the Ortofon Vivo Blue, which needs a step-up I think.. I've had a couple of reports from pals who've tried the 2M Blue and both found it over-critical of setup etc, so maybe not worth the bother?

Anyway, since the 10** series is fairly widely available on the used market and new styli can be bought without difficulty, then maybe that's all there is?

There are a few options:

- Goldring 10** series
- Goldring 2*** series - there seems to be some disappointment with regard to them but I've found them to be very good. They are quite different in sonic nature to the 10** series, however, so this may be the source of some of the dissent. The 2500 and a Jelco SA-750D is a match made in heaven IMHO.
- Ortofon 2M series. What can I say - I'm a fan!
- Nagaoka MP-*00 series. Smoother and rather more laid back than the Ortofons and Goldrings but very nice all the same.
- The AT440Mla and the Shure M97Xe for those who think it's still 1979...

I generally tend to steer clear of High Output MCs as I find them too much of a compromise. Yes, they work into an MM input but as they are MCs, this does not load them correctly. Many people seem to think that they give the best of both worlds but most of them only give of their best when given MM input sensitivity and MC loading, and very few more budget phono stages offer this. By the time you've bought a phono stage that does, you might as well buy a proper Low Output MC.

[DSJR]

The previous M97HE is a very truthful if small-scale sound and wonderful into a Croft 25RS :lol: The 440MLa is a bit toppy and setup sensitive for a "universal" cartridge, isn't it Adam? Like I said, a *universal* cartridge around £200 most peeps can fit and forget into a wide variety of different new and old decks..

Hmm :)