View Full Version : New Gyro or Salvation
My SP10 having been sold along with my schick arm and I am now on the hunt for a new TT & arm. I've basically narrowed it down to two with an overall budget of £2.5k for both.
My two options are a Michell Gyro with ? arm or a Transfi Salvation with the T3pro. The Gyro is the safe bet but where would be a good place to buy and are their any dealers who offer at least some discount/incentive? Secondly what arm to match it with. The arm budget would be in the £800-£1k range and I have a very strong preference for an arm with an SPU type removable headshel. I have a 4 cartridges all mounted on detachable headshells and I love the plug and play of being able to swap cartridges and the only change needed being tracking weight.
Any suggestions for a dealer and an arm either new or 2nd hand.
hifi_dave
23-04-2013, 18:37
What about Nottingham Analogue ?
Yes, but I've had an NA in the past. Fine though they are I don't want to go back. At the moment I'm not looking at anything other than the two I've shorlisted and I have already considered and rejected many many options available in this price range both new and second hand.
Out of interest was your suggestion because you consider the NA superior to the Gyro?
The Salvation is in a different league. Your more than welcome to come and have a listen Fantastic turntable
With the Terminator arm you could always get a few wands for a quick cartridge change
IME a Gyro is not as good as an SP10 so I would reassess your requirements....
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The Salvation is in a different league. Your more than welcome to come and have a listen Fantastic turntable
With the Terminator arm you could always get a few wands for a quick cartridge change
John, that's sounds like a great idea and you're not a million miles away either.
IME a Gyro is not as good as an SP10 so I would reassess your requirements....
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Thanks for the opinion, but I've heard the Gyro and I can't agree with your assessment, different certainly. But I would still be happy to own one.
Trevor at Guildford Audio just had a s/h Gyro come in, circa £1100..
Thanks for the opinion, but I've heard the Gyro and I can't agree with your assessment, different certainly. But I would still be happy to own one.
Well yes its my opinion but I lived with a Gyro for 5 years and had a very good handle on its sonic signature mine was upgraded as well with Orbe platter and NC power supply....the SP10 was better in all aspects with the same arm and cartridge combo...go figure! :)
The Salvation is a lot better than the Orbe IMO but of course its something you have to hear for yourself
Trevor at Guildford Audio just had a s/h Gyro come in, circa £1100..
Thanks Paul I'll give him a call.
hifi_dave
23-04-2013, 21:33
Is it a Gyro or Gyro SE you're looking for ?
I went from from gyro to gyrorbe to garrard 301 and now in parallel a salvation. The gyro and gyrorbe were very different to my current 2 decks. I would never go back.
steveledzep
23-04-2013, 22:12
Got my Gyro SE last year. Best deal I found was HiFiX. They communicated well too and all was very satisfactory. Don't know what their deal is today, but worth checking out if you go the Gyro route. :)
WOStantonCS100
23-04-2013, 22:33
I'd get the T3 Pro arm regardless of which TT you decide on, bloody brilliant (as they say). If Vic's TTs are as good as his arms, I'd jump on it. Service after sale exceeded my expectations.
The only thing I wonder about is whether you will regret losing the option of a 12inch arm?. Although I think Michell used to offer some sort of 'outrigger' and maybe still do. This may sound daft, but have you ever had the chance to compare the two decks? That would seem the best bet, but it may never be possible.
Overall my preference is the Salvation. I have heard both (although not side by side)and definitely prefer the salvation. I also like the way the arm works and think it would go a long way to compensate for losing my 12" schick. It also gives me the option of relatively easy cartridge change by buying extra arm wands. On the down side it would mean losing my 2 SPU's, I also have reservations about the pump noise and the slate finish. Hopefully some of those concerns will be put to rest with a visit to John and a chat with him.
Overall my preference is the Salvation. I have heard both (although not side by side)and definitely prefer the salvation. I also like the way the arm works and think it would go a long way to compensate for losing my 12" schick. It also gives me the option of relatively easy cartridge change by buying extra arm wands. On the down side it would mean losing my 2 SPU's, I also have reservations about the pump noise and the slate finish. Hopefully some of those concerns will be put to rest with a visit to John and a chat with him.
I don't understand why you wouldn't use your SPUs with Salvation. There are SPU Salvation users out there. If Vic has time he may sort out a suitable wand for you.
I don't understand why you wouldn't use your SPUs with Salvation. There are SPU Salvation users out there. If Vic has time he may sort out a suitable wand for you.
Because I didn't think he made a wand with an SME type connector (round 4 pin with a collar to tighten the fitting) as on the old SME 3009's. If he does then problem solved.
Because I didn't think he made a wand with an SME type connector (round 4 pin with a collar to tighten the fitting) as on the old SME 3009's. If he does then problem solved.
It is possible, I ran an exchangeable headshell for a while and others do run SPUs on something similar. You should discuss with Vic to see what he can do nowadays.
It is possible, I ran an exchangeable headshell for a while and others do run SPUs on something similar. You should discuss with Vic to see what he can do nowadays.
Yep, just done a bit of digging and found a guy from hong kong who posts on Lenco Heaven. He got vic to make a wand specifically for his SPU reference gold (even the same cart as me) so its obviously doable.
Thanks for that Clive very helpful.
What about Nottingham Analogue ?
Who would have expected you to make that recommendation...
hifi_dave
24-04-2013, 15:37
Who would have expected you to make that recommendation...
Most people who know me..:scratch:
Mmm... quite - unfortunately their doesn't appear to be a 'sarcasm' emoticon or my thought would have been more clearly presented (of course I could always have explained myself better too... :)).
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With more direct application to the threads question; I have heard both turntables quite a number of times and would say they are very different things indeed to one another.
WOStantonCS100
24-04-2013, 21:00
Yep, just done a bit of digging and found a guy from hong kong who posts on Lenco Heaven. He got vic to make a wand specifically for his SPU reference gold (even the same cart as me) so its obviously doable.
Thanks for that Clive very helpful.
;) As in my avatar, I'm using a Technics headshell (loaded with modded Stanton) on my T3 arm (SME coupling). The critical thing, I'd image, would be having Vic whip you up a suitable counterweight.
I plan to talk to Vic about it after I've been over to see John's Salvation.
The wand now has extra weights added to it, this add a bit more focus
The wand now has extra weights added to it, this add a bit more focus
And I find added bass weight too. They seem to pin the wand down more securely into the V bearing preventing bearing chatter.
Patrick Dixon
25-04-2013, 20:08
Well, I love my T3 and Vic is a pleasure to deal with.
Well I still have managed a visit to hear John's Salvation (he's been a bit poorly) But I am fully expecting to love it when I can get over and that it will be what I end up buying before the end of the year. However they I believe made to order and there could be a bit of a delay in getting one in place and as I am without a TT at the moment (gulp) I bought the Gyro Dec from Guildford Audio as a stop gap.
It turned out to be a mint MK1v with a Michell RB300 and a very nice AT-OC-5 cartridge all in as new condition for the pricely sum of £1,150 Which I think is well under valued for a private sale let alone from a dealer. The arm I have stuck on ebay and am expecting that to go for £200 + The cart I'll keep so I reakon I picked up a mint Mk1v for about £850 and will have no trouble recovering that when I sell to get the Salvation.
What's a 'mint mark1v'? If it is a reference to an SME V, it's puzzling, as there are no 'mark 1' arms. There's never been a mark 2. Maybe it is some other arm. Also SME Vs in decent condition go for a lot more than £850. I've seen rubbish ones sell for £1100.
Actually, it is a weird problem with the SME V market. It's been around 25 years with no obvious changes so people think that any age will do, and that the cheapest, and oldest, are fine. Sadly, it's not like that. They all need servicing at this age (I've owned eight of them over the years). The smart buyers have worked-out that the best value is near the top of the price range. You can pay £1800 for an arm almost new (say, 2010) and £1100 for an arm twenty years old...which then needs a £500 service, after which you have a serviced 20 year old arm, still worth only £1200.
As I said, I don't know any other item of audio with such a strange market.
What's a 'mint mark1v'? If it is a reference to an SME V, it's puzzling, as there are no 'mark 1' arms. There's never been a mark 2. Maybe it is some other arm. Also SME Vs in decent condition go for a lot more than £850. I've seen rubbish ones sell for £1100.
Actually, it is a weird problem with the SME V market. It's been around 25 years with no obvious changes so people think that any age will do, and that the cheapest, and oldest, are fine. Sadly, it's not like that. They all need servicing at this age (I've owned eight of them over the years). The smart buyers have worked-out that the best value is near the top of the price range. You can pay £1800 for an arm almost new (say, 2010) and £1100 for an arm twenty years old...which then needs a £500 service, after which you have a serviced 20 year old arm, still worth only £1200.
As I said, I don't know any other item of audio with such a strange market.
Peter, the Mint Mk IV refers to the Gyro Dec Not sure where you got SME from as I never mentioned SME. The MK IV ws the first one with the DC power supply. MK 1 2 & 3 had a papst AC power supply. I could be wrong on that, but that's my understanding. The current model is Mk V I believe.
If I'm talking total rubbish I'm sure someone will be along to correct me.
Audioman
10-05-2013, 10:44
Peter, the Mint Mk IV refers to the Gyro Dec Not sure where you got SME from as I never mentioned SME. The MK IV ws the first one with the DC power supply. MK 1 2 & 3 had a papst AC power supply. I could be wrong on that, but that's my understanding. The current model is Mk V I believe.
If I'm talking total rubbish I'm sure someone will be along to correct me.
Mine is a MK III so I think the first SE with Papst motor is MK IV and DC motor ones are MK V. Having said that there have been minor changes - springs and arm isolation. Also the high res DC power supply option changed to Never Connected at one point.
Thanks for the opinion, but I've heard the Gyro and I can't agree with your assessment, different certainly. But I would still be happy to own one.
+1
I've listened to a lot of so called "high end" TT's and none have really offered anything hugely better than a well fettled Gyro with a decent arm and cart.
I've owned one for 8 years now and haven't been tempted to upgrade it although the arm and cart have both been upgraded.
They work well with the venerable SME arms (M2; 309; MkIV) but I've heard good things with the OL arms (amongst others) on them too. Plenty of decent arms used but personally I'd always try and buy an ex-dem or new arm at that price point as you never know the history (and abuse) the bearings may have gone through! The deck is a very safe used buy for around £700 to £800 (or cheaper for older models). Budget about a grand for a decent arm and the rest on a decent cart.
There's a few decks I preferred including the latest Oracle Delphi but that's seriously big bucks and also the VPI scout, again quite expensive. For the money, there's little really I've heard which significantly betters the Gyro (some give a different sound but you need to define "better" before drawing conclusions on whether they'd be a better bet). It's a very safe bet imho.
Audioman
10-05-2013, 16:15
+1
I've listened to a lot of so called "high end" TT's and none have really offered anything hugely better than a well fettled Gyro with a decent arm and cart.
I've owned one for 8 years now and haven't been tempted to upgrade it although the arm and cart have both been upgraded.
They work well with the venerable SME arms (M2; 309; MkIV) but I've heard good things with the OL arms (amongst others) on them too. Plenty of decent arms used but personally I'd always try and buy an ex-dem or new arm at that price point as you never know the history (and abuse) the bearings may have gone through! The deck is a very safe used buy for around £700 to £800 (or cheaper for older models). Budget about a grand for a decent arm and the rest on a decent cart.
There's a few decks I preferred including the latest Oracle Delphi but that's seriously big bucks and also the VPI scout, again quite expensive. For the money, there's little really I've heard which significantly betters the Gyro (some give a different sound but you need to define "better" before drawing conclusions on whether they'd be a better bet). It's a very safe bet imho.
Agree in not hearing a DD that is much 'better' than a Gyro. I would probably suggest an Orbe but it isn't light years better. The Oracle is very much the same flavour as Mitchell though now expensive. Of the VPI decks I would suggest the better versions of the Classic as a possible improvement. Also rated the Voyd Reference before it became AN and insanely priced.
Most other competition that offers relatively small improvements is over engineered to the point of being much more expensive in relation to SQ. One mega expensive deck that impressed me (though cheap by Continuum standards) is the Spiral Groove. Also remember the limiting factor in SQ is ultimately the vinyl record mastering and pressing. So my advice is upgrade your favourite titles to the best sounding pressings before looking at anything more expensive than a Mitchell.
As far as arms are concerned I heard a mk III Gyro with an Audio Note arm at Scalford. An excellent match and note that those who have tried it are discarding their SME Vs.
I have had a Gyro, Orbe/Gyro and a VPI reference superscoutmaster all in my system Each one to my ears a improvement over what I had previously.
I certainly have no regrets with what I have now
+1
I've listened to a lot of so called "high end" TT's and none have really offered anything hugely better than a well fettled Gyro with a decent arm and cart.
I've owned one for 8 years now and haven't been tempted to upgrade it although the arm and cart have both been upgraded.
They work well with the venerable SME arms (M2; 309; MkIV) but I've heard good things with the OL arms (amongst others) on them too. Plenty of decent arms used but personally I'd always try and buy an ex-dem or new arm at that price point as you never know the history (and abuse) the bearings may have gone through! The deck is a very safe used buy for around £700 to £800 (or cheaper for older models). Budget about a grand for a decent arm and the rest on a decent cart.
There's a few decks I preferred including the latest Oracle Delphi but that's seriously big bucks and also the VPI scout, again quite expensive. For the money, there's little really I've heard which significantly betters the Gyro (some give a different sound but you need to define "better" before drawing conclusions on whether they'd be a better bet). It's a very safe bet imho.
Interesting Paul, as someone who enjoys your posts this is interesting l have to say, l had an Orbe and l think l may have sold it too soon, but then l found the SL1200,and found the speed stability and solidity of the soundstage was something l had never had on a belt drive, but as they say horses for courses.:)
Interesting Paul, as someone who enjoys your posts this is interesting l have to say, l had an Orbe and l think l may have sold it too soon, but then l found the SL1200,and found the speed stability and solidity of the soundstage was something l had never had on a belt drive, but as they say horses for courses.:)
It's whatever works in your system I guess Andy. I've owned all sorts of decks from used (£25!) Dual 505 Mk 2's, Thorens TD280, Rega P25, Garrards (2 of them in the past although I still have and use a 401), a few Jap DD's and have auditioned Oracle Delphi's, Kuzma decks, Orbes, VPIs, Clearaudio Champion and Master decks (no likey) and none have really been "better" than my current Gyro SE and SME309 with the Shelter 5000 cart. It presents a rock solid sound stage and is very pitch stable (I run it off a mains regenerator to ensure pitch stability).
The arm and cart used are so often neglected in favour of deck comparisons which on their own I think are pretty meaningless. I have auditioned most decks using my own phono stage too which again is a large part of the equation.
Because there are so many variables, you'll rarely find two people agreeing on what the "best" deck to buy is because they may have auditioned or listened in their systems to decks using very different ancillaries.
I've heard a few SL1200's and whilst not at all bad, I've always preferred the Gyro (or is it that I prefer the Shelter cart to what was being used in the SL1200's? Who knows).
Point is, for engineering quality and value, few decks that I can think of really eclipse the Gyro SE for the price although many are very similar and have their own strengths. If money was no object, a VPI Classic would probably be in my collection, but alas that's a pipe dream for now! I've never listened to the Trans-fi Salvation deck mentioned on one of the opening posts but that looks to be a very well engineered deck too.
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