LP playing system upgrade ... thoughts/advice?

[jandl100]

There's some money in my hifi budget, and I fancy an upgrade on the ol' turntable system, maybe.

Looking to spend up to a £grand or so nett (i.e. over and above any sales of my current analogue kit).

Current system is ...
- Mitsubishi DP-EC10 fully automatic direct drive tt
- Zu / Denon DL-103 mc cart
- Trichord Dino / NCPSU phonostage

No , I don't expect you to be familiar with the tt, but take my word that it is about equivalent to an untouched Techie 1210 / Pioneer PL-71 type of thing.
The arm is pretty decent - standard Jap quality - it happily takes the Zu-ed Denon and allows it to sound good.

So - change the tt, change the cart, change the phonostage? Or a combination of all three?

Watchya reckon? :)

Here's my current tt -->

eBay auction http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audiophile-Mitsubishi-DP-EC10-Fully-Automatic-Direct-Drive-Turntable-EX-/190739809560?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&ssPageName=RSS%3AB%3ASHOP%3AGB%3A101&hash=item2c68fa8518&nma=true&si=8GLt5FgP8zDzNI02G7IlAzDFIz8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF8339.jpg (http://s262.photobucket.com/user/jandl100/media/DSCF8339.jpg.html)

[jandl100]

Unusual 'left field' suggestions are especially welcome! - I do like 'different'. :eyebrows:


Oh, and a lid/cover is essential due to felines!

[Audioman]

Jerry. Are you open to belt drives and idler drives or just want another DD. Left field pays to be open minded. Lids may be a problem unless you can live with a unicover type thing.

[jandl100]

I like dd due to the speed issues that other forms of drive can have.
Being a classical music listener, speed constancy is essential to me.

I'd prefer a proper lid.

I'd like a 'plug & play' solution - I want to listen to music not faff around endlessly tweaking gear!

[chelsea]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garrard-401-Turntable-in-plinth-with-cover-/330904404396?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item4d0b7081ac

[jandl100]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garrard-401-Turntable-in-plinth-with-cover-/330904404396?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item4d0b7081ac

Thanks Stu - the seller appears clueless about it, though ... I'd expect it to need some serious TLC before it was much use ...? Not sure I want to be bothered with that!

[Audioman]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garrard-401-Turntable-in-plinth-with-cover-/330904404396?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Turntables&hash=item4d0b7081ac

Reading between the lines in the description I would assume this TT will need some work. Basically switches on and runs + nasty dust bug mark - respray, bearing. idler wheel ?

Some (many) modern belt drives do not have speed issues with an electronic speed control. My aging Gyro is very stable with piano notes. Also you get a more relaxed yet precise sound with better soundstage. I've now discovered that any waffly imprecision was mostly at the door of my Pioneer 400X rather than the Gyro.

[chelsea]

Ah sorry,didn't read details.

[MartinT]

It might be difficult to beat what you have for that budget, Jerry. It might help to know what you don't like about what you have?

[Tarzan]

Have you tried looking at Hifi Pig for advice Jerry?:ner:

[jandl100]

:lol: --- yeah - a reviewer on there reckons I should buy a Ming Da MC2006 phonostage. :drool: .... I suspect the phonostage route is one I might well take.

-- my Dino/NCPSU is good, but hearing the Minging Thing was quite an ear opener! :eek:

[Qwin]

I tend to agree with Martin on this - you may find it difficult to better what you have. There are not that many DD turntables that would be better out of the box without upgrading or doing some form of work.

The Turntable, arm, cartridge and Phono stage you have are all decent items and look to be well matched in terms of performance level. If you were to spend your budget on one part of your system, you would be elevating that element beyond what the other parts could fully make use of and it would not be able to do its best. This is ok if you are making this a first step in a gradual upgrading of all the elements but if not you could be dissapointed, after a hefty outlay you may not get a better sound. System matching can be tricky.

[jandl100]

Yep I would have agreed with you on that, Ken --- until I had the £1.7k Ming Da phono stage in my system for review purposes.
OH - MY - GOSH !! :eek:

So, sometimes, an 'un-balanced' system can be a bit surprising.

[jandl100]

OK! - I have a Tom Evans "The Groove" phonostage on its way to me. Let's see what that can do. :)

Nicely positive review here (http://www.10audio.com/evans_m-groove.htm)

[The Count]

Yep I would have agreed with you on that, Ken --- until I had the £1.7k Ming Da phono stage in my system for review purposes.
OH - MY - GOSH !! :eek:

So, sometimes, an 'un-balanced' system can be a bit surprising.

My experience as well :)

Though it only leads to more "what if..."s :doh:

[Tarzan]

OK! - I have a Tom Evans "The Groove" phonostage on its way to me. Let's see what that can do. :)

Nicely positive review here (http://www.10audio.com/evans_m-groove.htm)

I used to own a Groove Jerry.........................get ready for the truth.

[Andrei]

Thinking out loud: Isn't the 103 based on a spherical tip? Rather difficult to 'Demo' cartridges but something like the very well reviewed Clearaudio Virtuoso may be the ticket http://www.stereophile.com/phonocartridges/737/

[jandl100]

Thinking out loud: Isn't the 103 based on a spherical tip? Rather difficult to 'Demo' cartridges but something like the very well reviewed Clearaudio Virtuoso may be the ticket http://www.stereophile.com/phonocartridges/737/

Yep - but mine's been retipped with an elliptical stylus. :)

I've tried quite a few carts, and keep an open mind about others, but I have a deep and abiding love for what the Denon 103 can do - I've tried medication, but it doesn't seem to help. ;)


I used to own a Groove Jerry.........................get ready for the truth.

Bring it on! :eyebrows:

I guess once I've owned The Groove for a while, I can upgrade to Cambridge 640P like you, Andy .... :D

[Marco]

I've tried quite a few carts, and keep an open mind about others, but I have a deep and abiding love for what the Denon 103 can do - I've tried medication, but it doesn't seem to help. ;)


Jerry, at some point you need to try an SPU. Think what you LURVE about the 103 (and I know *exactly* what that is) and multiply it by ten (!) including the addition of some very addictive 'musical magic' that the 103 (in any incarnation) is completely incapable of.....

One should defo be added to your future shopping list! :exactly:

Marco.

[jandl100]

OK, Marco - I will do that. :thumbsup:

:hmm: 0.2mV output - perfect for my Groove 'stage.!

Aargh - tempted! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ortofon-SPU-Classic-GM-MKII-moving-coil-MC-cartridge-Brand-new-and-in-stock-/221204885992?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3380d6b1e8

[Marco]

Lol... Just be careful that your arm can balance it out ok.

The SPU weighs a massive 32g, so you should test things first by adding some Blu-Tak or coins to your current headshell, until you get to 32g, and see if the counterweight on your arm can balance that out. If not, and you go for the SPU, the additional 'ballast' applied will have to be added to the arm's counterweight balance, in order for you to achieve the correct VTF of 4g.

The guys at Deco are excellent to deal with, as I've used them before, and they carry the basic SPU in stock, so it's a no-brainer to use their services. Be prepared, though, if you do go for it, that the SPUs unique and highly addictive musical traits will spoil you in future with other cartridges, as its way of music making is as beguiling and unforgettable as that of a Decca (although in a somewhat different way).

The way that the SPU handles big orchestral swings and climaxes, and underpins the music with massive impact and authority, as well as its sheer magic in the midrange, will simply take your breath away... You'll hear Shossy like you've never heard it before!! :eek: :eyebrows:

Marco.

[jandl100]

That 32g includes the headshell? -- Well, my Zu 103 weighs 14g plus 11g for the Sumiko headshell - so about the same really.

Note my current c/wt setup -- :eyebrows:

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii114/jandl100/DSCF8925_zps37361f04.jpg (http://s262.photobucket.com/user/jandl100/media/DSCF8925_zps37361f04.jpg.html)

[Marco]

Yup, 32g is the total weight, including headshell. Lol - you should be ok, then! If you do go for it, I'll give you a few tips on optimising its set up :)

Marco.

[jandl100]

The tonal opulence of the SPU plus the clarity of the Groove 'stage -- OMG, there's a certain inevitability about it! :drool: :doh:

[Marco]

It's like candy to a kid in a sweety store! :D

Btw, what does the anti-skate adjustment go up to on your arm?

Marco.

[jandl100]

Up to 3g.

I tend to like zero antiskate with the Zu103 - it tracks OK and seems to 'free up' the sound a little.

[DSJR]

I loved the Tron 7 phono stage when I heard it, but have no idea how it would compare with the Tom Evans model. As for turntables, I suppose the main alternative recommendation for such as Jerry would be a tricked-out Techie, since the path is well trod, the deck can be easily taken stage by stage etc etc...