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Barry
10-04-2009, 02:03
A short history of early Ortofon pick-up cartridges


History

The Ortofon company started life as ‘Fonofilm A/S’, founded in 1918 by Arnold Poulson and Axel Peterson, initially manufacturing equipment for the film industry. In 1948 they introduced the first monophonic moving coil pickup: the model AB. The technology for this pickup was derived from the cutter head that the company had previously developed in 1945. Ortofon also designed a rudimentary arm to be used with the Model AB cartridge. The cartridge connections consisted of two long pins that emerged from a short cylindrical stub, moulded as part of the pickup housing. The pickup simply plugged into the arm and the stub clamped by a simple collet.


The Model C

The model AB shortly evolved into the model A and model C monophonic moving coil pickups, both having a revised design of the arm coupling arrangement. Models A and C differed in the tracking weight used: the model A, intended for domestic consumers, needed a 7 gram tracking weight; whilst the model C intended for professionals, used a lower tracking weight of 3 gram. These cartridges were unique in having an extended high frequency response of around 20kHz.


http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ortofon48abshell3z.jpg
Ortofon Model C monophonic pickup fitted with a coupling stub designed to be used with the Ortofon RF297 arm. Photo. R. A. Bruil

At some point during this period, Fonofilm changed their name to ‘Ortofon’, (from the Greek: orthos, pure or correct + phonos, sound). Early cartridges were marked Fonofilm on the bottom rather than Ortofon (sometimes the Ortofon name is on the top of the cartridge). Ortofon supplied their monophonic cartridges to the broadcasting industry and in particular to EMT. At that time EMT had no arm. To allow the cartridges to be used with the EMT 927 deck, Ortofon supplied their model RF927 (and later the RF229) arm that was designed to couple to the Model A and Model C cartridges. The coupling for this arm used a cylindrical stub with a radial alignment pin drawn in by a helical groove on the inside of a collar, which could freely rotate about the end of the arm tube. This is similar to the EIA (or SME) style used today. The contacts used two studs arranged along the stub diameter, horizontal, that is, parallel to the record surface.


SPU series

In 1957 Ortofon introduced a moving coil stereo cutter head and followed this in 1958 with the introduction of the "Stereo Pick-Up" or SPU, designed by Robert Gudmandsen. Initially Ortofon supplied these new cartridges in the Type A headshell, designed to be used in their own RMA pickup arm, to broadcast turntable manufacturers, including EMT. Being a two-channel device, an extra set of contacts was necessary, these being arranged at right angles, or vertically, to those used for monophonic heads. This configuration followed that employed by Neumann in their DST 62 head. EMT has continued to use this Neumann, or ‘diamond’, contact configuration almost uniquely amongst pickup arm manufacturers.

The SPU series, had the following specification:

Frequency response: 20 –20,000 Hz
Channel separation: better than 20dB
Compliance: 10cu


http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ortospunudez.jpg
The photograph (by R. A. Bruil) above shows the generator assembly of an early Ortofon SPU cartridge. A later version is shown below. Note that at this time the distance between stylus tip and cartridge mounting points had not been standardised, hence the two sets of fixing holes.


http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ortofonspu2z.jpg Photo. R. A. Bruil


SPU generators mounted in Ortofon’s Type A headshell were denoted SPU-A, and if fitted with an elliptical stylus SPU-AE. An example is shown below.


http://www.berrys-napix.co.jp/audio_goods/images/19985_b.jpg

Ortofon later made a different version of their arm to take what they called the type G headshell. This headshell was a larger (22mm longer) design that could take not only Ortofon's own cartridges but also other, larger cartridges. Ortofon arms using the type G headshell were referred to as RMG arms, to distinguish them from the RMA arms designed for the Type A headshell. At that time they also changed the contact arrangement to the ‘square’ configuration used today (somewhat confusingly, the RMA arms supplied to EMT continued to employ the 'diamond' configuration). The pattern of the type G headshell was adopted by SME when they developed their arm. Owing to the wide acceptance of the SME arms, the headshell- arm coupling arrangement designed by Ortofon, is now more commonly referred to as an SME bayonet coupling.



http://www.thomas-schick.com/arm/IMG_5037.jpg
Comparison of an SME / Ortofon Type G headshell (left) with the Ortofon Type A headshell (right). Photo. T. Schick

Cartridges mounted in Ortofon’s own shell would have a suffix ‘G’ attached: SPU-G. Alternatively the cartridges could be fitted into the users own headshell. The larger dimensions of the G-type shell allowed Ortofon to supply versions of the SPU with built-in step-up transformers; the assembly would have a suffix ‘T’ attached: SPU-T. The Danish company Joergen Shou made these transformers for Ortofon. SPU versions incorporating the transformer and fitted into the type G headshell were referred to as SPU-GT, and if an elliptical stylus was used, the SPU-GTE.

Regardless of whether the transformer was fitted or not, SPU cartridges fitted into G shells were weighted to an identical 32g, to preserve the same value of effective mass and therefore resonant frequency and maintain compatibility.


http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ortofonsmearne.jpg Photo by R. A. Bruil.

The photo above shows an SPU-T with elliptical stylus (and so has the suffix ‘E’ attached: SPU-TE) fitted into, what looks like, an SME S3 headshell.

Some photographs of SPU are shown below.

SPU-GE

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Site_Images/SPU_Mono.JPG

Ortofon SPU without integral transformer fitted with an elliptical stylus and mounted in a Bakelite Ortofon type G headshell.

SPU-GTE

http://www.berrys-napix.co.jp/audio_goods/images/19496_b.jpg

Ortofon SPU (with elliptical stylus) fitted into the Ortofon headshell with an integral transformer. Note the (silver plated) ‘spring’ connections between the transformer secondary windings and the contact pins of the headshell. Ortofon claimed that this technique ‘reduced undesirable resonance’ (?)


The S 15 series

The S 15 series of cartridges were designed in the mid ‘60s and were based on the SPU. There were two versions: the S 15-T with an integral transformer, weighing 18.5g; and the ‘lightweight’ version without transformer, the SL 15, weighing 7g.

Either version could be supplied fitted with a 17um conical stylus. To distinguish these versions from those fitted with 17um x 8um elliptical styli, the latter would later have the suffix ‘E’ attached to their designation.


http://telefunken.te.funpic.de/jahrbuch3/Systeme/Ortofon%20S15-T,SL15.jpg

When fitted into the Ortofon type G headshell, (and confusingly called the S-15MT), the total mass of the S-15MT combination was 29.5g. This total mass could well have been chosen deliberately, if such a combination was intended for broadcast use. Assuming that SPU-Gs were already in use and tracking at 4g (not unusual at the time to ensure secure tracking), then in the event of an emergency failure, direct replacement of the SPU-G with an S-15MT would allow the latter to track at a recommended 1.5g.

Both the S15-T and SL15 had improved channel separation and compliance figures over that of the SPU. When introduced they were both more expensive than the SPU.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/willcowen/orts15t3.jpg

The S15-T had an integral transformer that had a voltage gain of 80 (38dB). The SL15 used a separate out board transformer supplied with flying cable ends ('kabelübertrager') to be installed between the pickup output leads and the preamplifier. Ortofon marketed such a device the '2-15K transformer', so called as it was designed to match the 2Ohm coil impedance of the SL15 to a notional 15KOhm of the RIAA equalising amplifier.


S-15MT

http://www.berrys-napix.co.jp/audio_goods/images/18891_b.jpg


http://www.berrys-napix.co.jp/audio_goods/images/12035_s.jpg

An ST-15 cartridge mounted in an SME S2 headshell is shown below.


http://www.hifido.co.jp/photo/02/052/05215/a.jpg

According to the manufacture’s specification, the SL15 had a higher compliance (25cu) compared with the S15-T (20cu). This suggests that in the lightweight version there is a change to the suspension.


SL15E
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=328&d=1239893741
Ortofon SL15E (Photo. W. Cowen)

A high output voltage version of the SL15 was made available, called the SL15ELL. This had an output of 0.125mV with a coil resistance of 6 Ohm, suggesting that the elevated output was obtained by increasing the number of turns in the coils. It tracked at 1.5-2.0g.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=329&d=1239893870
Ortofon SL15ELL (Photo. W. Cowen)


SL15 II

The SL15 and SL15E gained rapid acceptance, evolving through to mark II versions. Changes appear to have been made to the coil design. There is a reduction of output voltage to 0.015mV/ (cm/sec) and an increase in coil resistance to 2.5 Ohm. The SL15 II was fitted with a 15um conical stylus. There also appears to have been a change in the stylus rake angle to 20 degree. The 2-15K transformers were replaced with the STM-72, offering a step up ratio of 100 (40dB).

A ‘flip down’ stylus guard was fitted to the Mark II version of the SL15. This feature was retained on all subsequent designs up the MC30 II. The stylus guard is easily removed should there be concern over its presence causing unwanted audio resonances.


http://www.hifido.co.jp/photo/09/459/45969/e.jpg


SL20 Series

Later there were versions called the SL20 and SL20E (presumably acknowledging the revised international cutting standard of 20 degree) and finally a version intended for quadraphonic use: the SL20Q. The SL20 series used square pole pieces, claimed to improve linearity.

Beechwoods
10-04-2009, 03:59
Wow. Another fantastic write-up Barry. Thank you very much for sharing this. I find this sort of feature fascinating. It's items like this that would be excellent to save and make visible within the AOS Library, which is a little reference area we hope to get off the ground in the near future. As long as Neil doesn't mind sharing it as 'Strokes Of Genius' mod :)

Spectral Morn
10-04-2009, 09:20
NO Nick, I don't mind sharing it. I agree an item like this should be in SOG and in the library as well. As long as thats okay with Barry ?

Well done Barry no more photo problems now. Well worth the slight wait and what an excellent write up. I am glad you choose to join AOS, its information like this that makes AOS so unlike the 2D light weight stuff you mostly get elsewhere.


Regards D S D L

hifi_dave
10-04-2009, 16:20
Great stuff Barry. Very interesting, very informative and stunning pics.

Many thanks,
David

DSJR
10-04-2009, 18:26
There once was a time when SL15E's were being traded in or chucked away for the latest model. SPU's were fairly cheap and judged not good on tracking modern vinyl, probably because the arms weren't solid enough... Of course now, even SL15e's go for over a ton in half decent condition. :(

Will
10-04-2009, 20:37
Nice write-up Barry

The SL15-ELL shown has different specs to the SL15,
the output is 0.125mv, output imp. 6ohms
and stylus pressure is 1.5-2.00 grams.

aquapiranha
10-04-2009, 21:35
The level of knowledge and interest some people have in this hobby never ceases to amaze me. I do not have a decent T/T and I still found the write up very interesting, many thanks Barry!

Sgt.Pepper
11-04-2009, 18:57
The level of knowledge and interest some people have in this hobby never ceases to amaze me. I do not have a decent T/T and I still found the write up very interesting, many thanks Barry!

Thats because you don't get out very often :lol:

Nice article Barry,you must be thirsty after all that work,have a drink on me :cool:

Barry
14-04-2009, 20:58
NO Nick, I don't mind sharing it. I agree an item like this should be in SOG and in the library as well. As long as thats okay with Barry ?

Regards D S D L

First of all apologies for the tardy reply - I have been away from my PC over Easter and have only now returned.

I am glad that you all seem to have found it interesting and thank you for the words of appreciation. One of my interests, apart from actually using music reproducing equipment, is finding out about the history behind some of the more famous or landmark items that have been, or are still being, used. In the present case I have to thank Will for his posting on the sale of his SL15E. This started me looking at the, then contemporary, S-15E, and I'm afraid I got a bit caught up with it all.

As to the posting being included in the 'Library' - well I have no real objections, however the piece is not definitive and on re-reading contains some small errors, factual as well as grammatical. I would be happier if, Neil you could let me re-edit the piece (is this allowed / possible?)

Finally Will, thanks for that information. It was new to me. The photo was the best (sharpest) I could find of an SL15, though I would have preferred a shot of the front showing the 'script' Ortofon logo. I was puzzelled by the reference to high output. You have now explained this; looks like Ortofon increased the number of turns on the coils to provide the higher output. If you are agreeable, I'll include this information in a re-edited posting.

Regards

Barry

Spectral Morn
14-04-2009, 23:29
Hi Barry

No problem if you want to re submit the item with new bits or tell me where you want the new edits to go in the old version and I can do it. However the best and cleanest way is if you resubmit the full finished piece (with new bits in place as you want them ) and I can cut and paste it into the spot left by the old and remove the old totally and cleanly leaving the final finished item.

Ring me when you want to do this and you can let me know which way and I will do it for you. Not tonight though as I am of to bed now. I will be at home tomorrow from 11.30am onwards.


Regards D S D L

Will
15-04-2009, 10:13
Barry,
I'll take a couple of shots of the SL15 and SL15-ELL.

This page could be included if it readable.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/willcowen/orts15t3.jpg

Barry
15-04-2009, 20:26
Barry,
I'll take a couple of shots of the SL15 and SL15-ELL.

This page could be included if it readable.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/willcowen/orts15t3.jpg

Hi Will,

That would be great. No urgency, as I can't do anything for a couple of days. Don't forget to add your name, so that you can be given credit for your photos; I shall be adding credits to most of the others.

The page that you show makes the difference between the SL15 and the S-15T much clearer. I think it should also be included.

Thanks

Barry

P.S. Pleased to see that your 2-15K transformer fetched a good price. In this economically difficult time, perhaps I should think about selling mine.

Mike Reed
15-04-2009, 20:48
Fascinating stuff, Barry, and I seem to remember one of those ads. from, I should think. the late fifties/early sixties. My only experiences of Ortofons was an MC30 in the mid eighties ( a total mismatch with my early Naim gear) and my friend's Rohmann in the nineties (no 'get up and go').

After many Decca and Shure carts., I went 'moving coil' in the mid seventies with an Onlife. Nothing special, I suppose (too long ago), but I've never heard mention of it since. Have a sneaking suspicion that it was an early attempt by one of the (now) well-known Jap. cartridge makers.

In those days, or even before, mention was often made of the SPU-GT as being la creme de la creme, but it came, as I recall, with off-board transformer. Bit complex for the V15 Shure brigade (incl. me) to get to grips with.

Will
16-04-2009, 14:59
SL15 and SL15-ELL

Marco
16-04-2009, 20:22
Hi Will or Barry,

Got any interesting info on the Shure M3D? I've just fitted one today to my 1210 with superb results :)

Classic cartridges rule!

Meanwhile, this is quite an interesting article on a chap's classic hi-fi journey:

http://www.roger-russell.com/mysound/mysound.htm

Marco.

P.S Will, I much preferred your high-output version (ELL?) of the SL-15 to the low-output version Toppsy sent me. I'm not sure why that was as low-output MCs are generally considered superior.

Will
16-04-2009, 21:33
Marco, Steve has M3D stylus know how, which one to buy.
The SL15-ELL is the one I prefere, more or better top end but they are like hens teeth.

Marco
17-04-2009, 08:57
I liked the SL-15 in many ways but ultimately found it a little dull and shut-in at the top end, and that was even with your excellent SUT.

The ELL version that was fitted to your 401 at Owston sounded similarly as 'sweet' but more detailed and open at the top-end; consequently it was much more satisfying, musically. I've got no idea why a few more coil turns in an otherwise identical cartridge (true?) should have such an effect. Normally in this respect, 'less is more' - i.e. low-output is better.

With regard to obtaining a stylus for the M3D, I've just bought this from Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stylus-for-Shure-N3D-Original-Made-in-USA_W0QQitemZ290299481945QQihZ019QQcategoryZ48648Q QcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

That should see me pretty well sorted :)

Marco.

Barry
17-04-2009, 21:36
Fascinating stuff, Barry, and I seem to remember one of those ads. from, I should think. the late fifties/early sixties. My only experiences of Ortofons was an MC30 in the mid eighties ( a total mismatch with my early Naim gear) and my friend's Rohmann in the nineties (no 'get up and go').

After many Decca and Shure carts., I went 'moving coil' in the mid seventies with an Onlife. Nothing special, I suppose (too long ago), but I've never heard mention of it since. Have a sneaking suspicion that it was an early attempt by one of the (now) well-known Jap. cartridge makers.

In those days, or even before, mention was often made of the SPU-GT as being la creme de la creme, but it came, as I recall, with off-board transformer. Bit complex for the V15 Shure brigade (incl. me) to get to grips with.

I think I know what you mean about the Rohmann. My interest in Ortofons faded with my last: the MC20, used with Ortofon's MCA76 amplifier. Only used it for about a year but decided that it didn't sound as good as the SL15Es that I had. In retrospect, part of the problem might have been with the MCA76; it did not receive very good reviews and was not considered to be a good design.

I believe the 'Onlife' was made by Dynavector, as the 'Ultimo Onlife', initially distributed in the UK by Lowther.

Ortofon continued to quietly produce SPUs for the Japanese market. Increased demand from Western enthusiasts caused Ortofon to relocate manufacture to Japan and to re-advertise them. According to the cognocenti, modern Japanese SPUs are not as good as the original Danish samples. Sounds familiar? - new valves sounding not as good as NOS, new transformers not as good as older ones, new vinyl pressings not as good as they used to be.

I would like to try an SPU one day in light of my continued interst with the SL15s and the EMT range.

Barry

Barry
17-04-2009, 21:49
I liked the SL-15 in many ways but ultimately found it a little dull and shut-in at the top end, and that was even with your excellent SUT.

The ELL version that was fitted to your 401 at Owston sounded similarly as 'sweet' but more detailed and open at the top-end; consequently it was much more satisfying, musically. I've got no idea why a few more coil turns in an otherwise identical cartridge (true?) should have such an effect. Normally in this respect, 'less is more' - i.e. low-output is better.

Marco.

I wouldn't describe the SL15E to be dull or to have a 'shut-in' top end, but I have never heard the SL15ELL (in fact I hadn't even heard of the ELL until a few weeks ago), I shouln't really comment.

Will be interested in reading your findings on the Shure M3D

Regards

Barry

Barry
17-04-2009, 21:51
SL15 and SL15-ELL

Thanks Will,

I will include them in the revised write-up shortly.

Regards

Barry

Marco
20-04-2009, 09:27
Hi Barry,

I love this website, too and can see where you got some of your Ortofon pics :):

http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ortodeccatan.html

M3D also featured! :smoking:

They don't make 'em like they used to....

Marco.

Barry
20-04-2009, 13:51
Hi Barry,

I love this website, too and can see where you got some of your Ortofon pics :):

http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ortodeccatan.html

M3D also featured! :smoking:

They don't make 'em like they used to....

Marco.

Yes, so do I. In fact I would frequently visit this site long before I joined AOS.

I like the look of it, the layout and range of advice and opinion. Of particular interest to me are the pages on the TD124 (no surprise there) and on the setting up of both decks and cartridges. Good pages too on plinth design and the page on record cleaning is also good.

Like most web sites that express subjective opinions, one has to be aware that this is the view of the author and not receive it without question. I think his page on 'Bullet plugs' is the most unbelievable tosh written - but then, that is just my opinion.

Barry

anubisgrau
18-06-2009, 00:12
marco, have you tried SL15 into your auditorium SUT?

not sure if 25 compliance is correct for SL15 - according to a cartridge/tonearm matching chart i'm using, it seems like it needs extremely light arm and it would suit my stogi with 12.5g eff. mass.

i wouldn't bother that much if i wouldn't have one borrowed for test - waiting to be mounted in arm for a few weeks now

Barry
18-06-2009, 01:07
marco, have you tried SL15 into your auditorium SUT?

not sure if 25 compliance is correct for SL15 - according to a cartridge/tonearm matching chart i'm using, it seems like it needs extremely light arm and it would suit my stogi with 12.5g eff. mass.

i wouldn't bother that much if i wouldn't have one borrowed for test - waiting to be mounted in arm for a few weeks now

Hello 'anubisgrau',

The compliance of 25cu that I quoted for the SL15E, was taken from both the 1971 edition of the HiFi Year Book as well as from the data sheet that came with my sample of the SL15E. I also have an Ortofon SL15E/II and I think the complance figure for that is 25cu as well.

I use both in either an SME 3009, 3009(imp) or 3012 which have effective masses of 12.5g, 9.5g and 14g respectively. Assuming a cartridge mass of 5g, this places the LF resonance at 7.6Hz, 8.4Hz and 7.3Hz respectively; strictly speaking a little too low, but I have had no problems.

Not sure if the Auditorium 23 is best matched to the 2 Ohm coil resistance of the SL15. The transformers in the A23 are designed for a source resistance of 40 Ohm; perfectly matching the Denon DL103.

Would be interested to hear of the results with the SL15 mounted in your Stogi arm.

Regards
Barry

DevonOjas
28-09-2009, 16:18
Hi guys.

I'm new to this forum, but I'm trying to learn some general information about dating SPUs and I hope you can help me establish some facts.

I know that the most valuable SPU A is from 1963-64 and is identified by silver weights, as opposed to the brass ones we usually see. I had a chance to listen to one such SPU recently and I can verify that there was a definite noticeable improvement in the sound quality.

Other than that, I find that SPUs will go for radically different prices on the used market, regardless of condition, and I'm wondering on what grounds people judge the desirability of an SPU A.

I know that sometimes in the serial number you can extract a date code, but does the placement of the date move around within the serial number?

The Japanese advertise SPUs as being from either the "Herman" era, or the "Odionikusu" (maybe Audionics?) era. I know that some of the certificates say Herman International on the bottom. I'm guessing that this could have been the Japanese distributor or something? If anyone is familiar with this terminology, do you know what dates of manufacture this indicates, and which is generally more desirable?

I hope we can start to establish some of these usefull facts, as I can't find any information about this in English anywhere.

Thanks very much!

Spectral Morn
28-09-2009, 16:37
Hi guys.

I'm new to this forum, but I'm trying to learn some general information about dating SPUs and I hope you can help me establish some facts.

I know that the most valuable SPU A is from 1963-64 and is identified by silver weights, as opposed to the brass ones we usually see. I had a chance to listen to one such SPU recently and I can verify that there was a definite noticeable improvement in the sound quality.

Other than that, I find that SPUs will go for radically different prices on the used market, regardless of condition, and I'm wondering on what grounds people judge the desirability of an SPU A.

I know that sometimes in the serial number you can extract a date code, but does the placement of the date move around within the serial number?

The Japanese advertise SPUs as being from either the "Herman" era, or the "Odionikusu" (maybe Audionics?) era. I know that some of the certificates say Herman International on the bottom. I'm guessing that this could have been the Japanese distributor or something? If anyone is familiar with this terminology, do you know what dates of manufacture this indicates, and which is generally more desirable?

I hope we can start to establish some of these usefull facts, as I can't find any information about this in English anywhere.

Thanks very much!

Welcome to the forum. I am sure your questions can be answered.

Would you mind putting a post in the welcome section of the forum. Introduce yourself, tell us a wee bit about the music you like and the system you use. We also use first names on AOS as it makes for a more friendly forum:)


Regards D S D L

Barry
03-10-2009, 19:15
Hi guys.

I'm new to this forum, but I'm trying to learn some general information about dating SPUs and I hope you can help me establish some facts.

I know that the most valuable SPU A is from 1963-64 and is identified by silver weights, as opposed to the brass ones we usually see. I had a chance to listen to one such SPU recently and I can verify that there was a definite noticeable improvement in the sound quality.

Other than that, I find that SPUs will go for radically different prices on the used market, regardless of condition, and I'm wondering on what grounds people judge the desirability of an SPU A.

I know that sometimes in the serial number you can extract a date code, but does the placement of the date move around within the serial number?

The Japanese advertise SPUs as being from either the "Herman" era, or the "Odionikusu" (maybe Audionics?) era. I know that some of the certificates say Herman International on the bottom. I'm guessing that this could have been the Japanese distributor or something? If anyone is familiar with this terminology, do you know what dates of manufacture this indicates, and which is generally more desirable?

I hope we can start to establish some of these usefull facts, as I can't find any information about this in English anywhere.

Thanks very much!

As author of the 'A Short History .....', I might be able to help you, however I need you to pose you question a little more clearly. I don't, for example, know what you mean when you refer to silver and brass 'weights'(?)

If you can tell me exactly what you need to know, I'll see if I can help.

Regards

DevonOjas
05-10-2009, 05:26
Hi Barry,

Thanks for the reply.

As for the weights reference: If you look at an SPU A from the bottom you can see the weights that give the cartridge its precise weights between the cartridge and the shell. Most of them are brass in color, but a friend of mine in Japan recently showed me an example of an SPU A that has silver color weights. He told me that if you can find these silver weights it means that the cart is from 1962-1963, and these are the most desirable (valuable) SPUs in Japan. If you turn over an SPU A you should be able to clearly see the weights.

Anyway, what I'm trying to get at here is, if you randomly find an SPU, what is it you look for to determine the value.

There are several different cases over the years. The current production (least valuable on the second hand market) is the only case that has gray flocking on the inside of the case. Previous cases had red flocking inside, and some were red leather on the outside, while some had a white case with red graphics.

The badge on the top has also changed a number of times. There are several different logos, and sometimes the sticker was just a sticker, and sometimes it was a raised badge.

Japanese commonly refer to SPU as being from either the "Herman" or "Audionics" era. I am familar with the "Herman International" logo on some of the paperwork, but I'm unaware with what this indicates.

What can we learn about the period of manufacture from the serial number?

I guess these are the indicators that I can think of, but I don't want to limit us to these categories either. All I'm really trying to learn is how to visually gage the age and desirability of SPUs.

Thanks so much for your help,
Devon

Marco
05-10-2009, 08:34
Hi Devon,

Where in the world are you from, my friend? :)

I asked earlier but you seem to have missed it. We like to know such info here as it makes for a closer, more personal interaction between members, just like what would happen if you were meeting a new neighbour in real life for the first time...

We're very keen that AoS is portrayed as a community of real people and not a 'faceless' Internet message board. I trust you understand :cool:

Marco.

Barry
05-10-2009, 15:24
Hi Devon,

Thanks for your last post. I think the detail you require is outside of my experience. I'll try and do some research and see if I can answer your questions, but until then the following observations might be of help.

The early samples are the most sought after, especially by the Japanese. They would have been supplied in a red 'leather' finish box with red velvet-topped foam lining. The Ortofon logo would be in script lettering.

The stylus rake angle would have been 15 degree (+/- 5 degree)

Early versions would have been fitted into the Type A headshell (squarer looking than the later Type G shell). I believe that the Type A shells had the contacts arranged in the Neumann 'diamond' configuration and would only mate with the early Ortofon arms, such as the RMA 229 fitted to early EMT turntables.

If you are looking for an SPU-A, rather than later variants such as the SPU-G etc., beware that the SL15 design, which superceded the SPU, was for a time also available fitted into Type A shells: SL15A and the SL15EA.

New versions of the SPU are now made for Ortofon by Nagaoka and will have a stylus rake angle of 20 degree. The logo has Ortofon written in lower case san serif lettering and the cartridges come in red boxes with grey coloured foam lining. The plate on the underside of the cartridge is now coloured black, whereas the original Danish built samples had agrey coloured plate.

Trust this is of some help.

Regards

DevonOjas
05-10-2009, 16:25
So sorry, I did forget to mention that I live in New York City.

Barry, I have several SPUs, both A and G.

Type A shells have a square contact pattern, the same as the G, but the alignment pin is on the bottom of the bayonet instead of the top like on G shells, or SME type standard shells. I believe that only some very early SPU A shells were made for EMT decks (with the diamond pattern) before they added the magnifying glass. Type A shells can be used on Ortofon G arms with the addition of an adapter that adds the necessary length to achieve the proper offset angle.

I happened to find a photo of an A shell with the cartridge removed this morning and I thought I'd upload it here so that you could clearly see the weights I was referring to.

All the best,
Devon

Marco
05-10-2009, 18:03
Thanks, Devon - I've added those details to your profile :)

Marco.

Barry
09-10-2009, 21:53
Hi Devon

I’ve given some more thought to your enquiry and I now appreciate the difficulty of ‘dating’ Ortofon SPUs, since they remained in production from their introduction in 1959 up until 2007, when production was stopped owing to non-compliance with EU RoHS rules. I don’t know if any changes were made either to the mounting block or to the label on the headshell that would allow one to date them.

Modern SPU-As are modern SPU generators (now manufactured for Ortofon by Nagaoka in Japan) fitted into Bakelite Type A shells.

http://www.ortofon.com/images/stories/cartridges/SPU/spu_synergy_a_230pix.png

As can be seen from the photographs in the above website, these new SPU-As can be distinguished by the flat gold coloured label inscribed ‘ortofon since 1918’, in lower case san serif lettering. The mounting block within the headshell way well be made from aluminium or of nickel-plated brass; either having a silver colour, that you mention. The following is an interior shot of a modern SPU –G (E?), showing the ‘silver coloured’ mounting block.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Site_Images/SPU_Mono.JPG

The following shows a 1980’s SPU-A; it is difficult to see the colour of the mounting block although it does look as if it might be made of brass.
http://www.oswaldsmillaudio.com/images/vintage%20images/DSC_0056.jpg

And the following shows the cartridge in its presentation case.
http://www.oswaldsmillaudio.com/images/vintage%20images/DSC_0048.jpg
From this you can see the label is flat, black and has ‘ortofon’ written in san serif letters.

I suggest that for further information you might try Oswald Mill Audio
http://www.oswaldsmillaudio.com/vintage.html

Sorry to be of little help
Regards

BTH K10A
21-01-2011, 20:41
I know this is an old thread but just for completeness here is the leaflet for the Ortofon SC which I believe was the first Ortofon stereo cartridge.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/ortstereoscscan.jpg

Barry
25-01-2011, 18:34
I know this is an old thread but just for completeness here is the leaflet for the Ortofon SC which I believe was the first Ortofon stereo cartridge.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/ortstereoscscan.jpg

Hi Andy,

Thanks for that. Do you know the date and provenance of this leaflet? I'm curious about the notation: the SPU was Ortofon's own designation for the stereo pick up.

I'm wondering if the designation 'SCA', 'SCB' and 'SCG' were for the American market. In Europe the SPU fitted into the whale-shaped headshell was known as the SPU-G.

Regards

The Grand Wazoo
25-01-2011, 19:05
This might help answer that question Barry:
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13098
welcome back by the way!

Barry
25-01-2011, 19:45
This might help answer that question Barry:
http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13098
welcome back by the way!

Thanks Chris,

I tend to become a bit of an obsessive over this sort of detail. It would seem to be a merely a difference in designation as I suspected, but I would like to know why the two notations existed.

One of the posts on the vinylengine site states:

"The only difference between an Ortofon SPU and a non-SPU Ortofon MC cart is the compliance. The use of different materials and different styli do not change the actual design. The EMT TSD-12 and the original TSD-15 are simply rebadged SPUs with a different headshell. The TSD-12 logically had a 12um stylus and the TSD-15 15um.

Unless otherwise identical, there is probably only minute differences between the TSD-12 and 15. If there is an "SPU sound," it's related to the big, heavy and dense alnico magnet and short cantilever."

This answers a question I have been asking for a long time (though I didn't know of the TSD-12). It might be of interest to Marco.

Regards

BTH K10A
25-01-2011, 20:37
Hi Andy,

Thanks for that. Do you know the date and provenance of this leaflet? I'm curious about the notation: the SPU was Ortofon's own designation for the stereo pick up.

I'm wondering if the designation 'SCA', 'SCB' and 'SCG' were for the American market. In Europe the SPU fitted into the whale-shaped headshell was known as the SPU-G.

Regards

I think the leaflet is from about 1958 but I can't be sure.

The SC range of cartridges were a stereo development of the Mono A, B & C cartridges and used two of the mono coils. They were unduly complex and the later SPU was a simpler design. Whether it was better I don't know as I have only seen SC cartridges in pictures. There was one auctioned on ebay a few years ago that sold for over twice what an old SPU would fetch.

This is an SCGC? although in the G type headshell that appears to be original.
The cartridge is certainly different to an SPU
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/ortscgc.jpg

Barry
25-01-2011, 21:16
I think the leaflet is from about 1958 but I can't be sure.

The SC range of cartridges were a stereo development of the Mono A, B & C cartridges and used two of the mono coils. They were unduly complex and the later SPU was a simpler design. Whether it was better I don't know as I have only seen SC cartridges in pictures. There was one auctioned on ebay a few years ago that sold for over twice what an old SPU would fetch.

This is an SCGC? although in the G type headshell that appears to be original.
The cartridge is certainly different to an SPU
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/ortscgc.jpg

That sounds about right, Ortofon introduced the stereo cutter in 1957 and a stereo cartridge in 1958. I had always assumed this was the SPU, however there is a link from the vinylengine site to a Japanese site that says the same as you and even has a photograph of a similar looking cartridge. On the other hand however, the vinylengine site also has posts claiming the SCAs are SPUs in Type A headshells and the SCGs are SPUs in Type G shells. Not sure where this places SCBs.

It seems you have unearthed a very interesting bit of early Ortofon history, entirely new to me. It would seem likely that Ortofon did create a stereo pick up by combining two type A or type B mono generators into one unit, and these would of necessity be complex structures and difficult to make. The SPU as we know it would seem to be Ortofon's response to this challenge. I need to do some research and then will amend my Library article (of the same name). If I do so, would you mind your photograph of the SCG being used? You would of course be credited with the image.

BTH K10A
25-01-2011, 21:47
Hi Barry

It's not my Photo. I found it on the web ages ago so don't know who to credit to.

This link has more photos of an SCA cartridge. They look familiar, possibly the one that was sold on ebay. Hope it helps add to your history

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/354094/2072797

Barry
25-01-2011, 22:12
Hi Barry

It's not my Photo. I found it on the web ages ago so don't know who to credit to.

This link has more photos of an SCA cartridge. They look familiar, possibly the one that was sold on ebay. Hope it helps add to your history

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/354094/2072797

Thanks Andy.

MartinT
31-01-2011, 19:11
Superb article, Barry. I enjoyed reading that.

Ortofon
08-02-2012, 22:16
Superb article, Barry. I enjoyed reading that.

Hi,

I'm new in this forum, I'm French and do not speak very well English...
I have a very old Ortofon cartridge since few days and I don't know precisely what is it... maybe you can say more to me! there are two pictures.

Thanks, Florent

Barry
08-02-2012, 22:30
Hello Florent,

Thanks for the photos of your cartridge. I'm no expert but I'll try and find out what model Ortofon it is.

I do have to point out that we like new members to go into the Welcome area and introduce themselves first before making any posts. It's nothing too onerous: just tell us a little about yourself, roughly where in France you live, what system you run and what music you enjoy. It makes for a friendlier forum.

Don't worry about your English - it's better than my French! If it would help, you could always post in French and one of us could use the Google translator.

Anyway looking forward to conversing with you soon.

Regards

Ortofon
11-02-2012, 17:09
Hello,

I think to have found what is this cartridge :
Ortofon (or ESL) C-99 the first Stereo cartridge by Ortofon since 1959, it seams to use a double mono technology...

Florent

Ortofon
11-02-2012, 17:22
http://books.google.fr/books?id=uB8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=esl+C99+cartridge+billboard&source=bl&ots=LlOuJMx3EZ&sig=h4HPKiHc_21i6jBs6JSW3vvCJvM&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=s6M2T5ObCcGh0QWO6YmxAg&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=esl%20C99%20cartridge%20billboard&f=false

Barry
11-02-2012, 21:13
Bon Soir Florent

I have been researching your ‘unidentified’ cartridge that you now think is an ESL C99.

First of all, when I saw your thumbnail photos I did wonder if your cartridge might have been a sample of Ortofon’s first stereo cartridge. This was indeed, as you mention, two monophonic generators arranged at right angles to one another and at 45 degrees to the record surface. The two generators were connected to the stylus/cantilever by a complex linkage arrangement. As such, they would have been difficult and expensive to make. One of our members, Andy (BTH K10A) kindly provided this photo:

http://i780.photobucket.com/albums/yy88/barrydhunt/ortscgc1.jpg

Now the magazine article you provide refers to the Electro-Sonic Laboratories C99 stereo cartridge. Electro-Sonic laboratories (ESL) were a Danish company of the ‘50s and ‘60s. All of their products were unmistakably Ortofon in disguise. It would seem that your "Ortofon" cartridge is an ESL C99 as you surmise. Although I’m a little puzzled by the use of the later EIA/SME ‘square’ contact arrangement, rather than the Neumann/EMT ‘diamond’ arrangement.

Finally, you state your arm is an Ortofon RM309. The fact you use your SPU cartridge (mounted in the long “whale-shaped” type G headshell) suggests it is actually an RMG309 arm. As such your new “Ortofon” cartridge, mounted in the short square-shaped type A headshell, needs the longer RMA309 arm. To use cartridges mounted in the type A headshell in RMG arms, you will need the Ortofon AJ-1 adaptor.

Regards

BTH K10A
11-02-2012, 23:34
Hi Barry

The Ortofon/SME bayonet is normal for A shell stereo. The EMT diamond versions are rare.

It's certainly and ortofon C-99 and the ESL version was just badge engineering.

The gyro / jewel is an interesting one though. IT it an Ortofon or is it an ESL development?

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/ortscascgscan.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/eslc99scanb.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/eslc99f-1.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/eslc99i-1.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/eslc100scand.jpg

Barry
11-02-2012, 23:52
Hi Andy,

I was hoping you might "pop your head round the door" to help me out.

That is the first time I've seen concrete evidence to the Ortofon 'double mono' SC design. Could I add it (with acknowledgements) to the Library article? What ever happened to the Type B shells?

Your later images refer to the American ESL company - references to the "High Fidelity Customer's Bureau of Standards" suggest such. I don't know how they were related to the Danish company, but their designs certainly look similar to those of the Danish company. I suspect the American ESL were a separate company that bought the rights to the Danish company's designs. Certainly the early Danish ESL designs were 'badge engineered' Ortofon designs: probably made under license.

Interesting - I'll have to do some more research.

Thanks

Regards

BTH K10A
12-02-2012, 01:02
Hi Barry

There was only A & G. I have been told that the G shell was developed so owners could use other cartridges with Ortofon arms in a similar vein the the EMT TSD-G headshell. The G shell also permitted the use ofSUT's in the headshell. I can no longer remember what the G stood for (a sign of old age) but it was not intended to be an alphabetical sequence.

ESL were an American company the liscenced Ortofon products. I believe they also commissioned Ortofon to produce unique products for them such as rth ESL 1000 and 2000 tonarms.

One thing I've always wondered was that as the Ortofon arms designated 297 and 309 had effective lengths of the same as their designation, did the Ortofon made ESL-310 have an effective length of 310mm?

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/eslcscana-1.jpg

Marco
12-02-2012, 15:13
Awesome stuff, Andy! :stalks:

I'd love to hear that arm and cartridge combo one day, on say a nice Thorens TD-124, or an SP10, in suitable plinths. I can imagine that the results would be stunning!!

Marco.

BTH K10A
12-02-2012, 19:24
Awesome stuff, Andy! :stalks:

I'd love to hear that arm and cartridge combo one day, on say a nice Thorens TD-124, or an SP10, in suitable plinths. I can imagine that the results would be stunning!!

Marco.

I missed out on buying one from a guy whom I purchased some other bits from in america some years ago. He asked me if I wanted an old ESL arm cartridge and SUT for an additional $50. I was unaware of them and their connection to Ortofon at the time and passed on the offer. It was only when the bits I purchsed arrived a few weeks later I found he had included a pic of the ESL. I then realised what it was. When I contacted him it was already sold. :doh:

Barry
14-02-2012, 01:07
Hi Andy,

We all know that in practice Ortofon cartridges were only available fitted into Type A or Type G shells, but Ortofon at one time mention the use of a third, Type B shell. The illustration in the Ortofon leaflet clearly shows all three, as well as mentioning the overall weight of each version. I’m just curious to know what happened to the Type B shell – perhaps Ortofon found no demand for it, so dropped it.

The designation “G” as used by both Ortofon and later EMT (to denote ‘empty’ headshells: the TSD-G) might be from the Danish “generelt” and the German “generell” for ‘general (purpose)’.


I think you are right about ESL being an American company. My researches found a reference implying it was a Danish company, however I believe this was a misunderstanding; ESL clearly were agents and distributors at that time for Ortofon products in the USA. A similar situation existed here in the UK: SME were reciprocal agents for Shure products; KEF for ADC cartridges and arms and Lowther for Dynavector (then marketed as Ultimo). I believe Radford were at one time agents for B&O cartridges.

Reference is made in the ESL leaflet you show to “Danish hand craftsmanship”. This is the possible source for the misunderstanding that ESL was a Danish company.

It is also likely that ESL obtained a license from Ortofon to manufacture moving-coil cartridges of their own design. It was only after Ortofon’s patents lapsed in the mid ‘70s did we see an explosion of moving coil designs emerge from Japan.

Regards

BTH K10A
14-02-2012, 06:38
Hi Barry

I think the B shell you refer to is the AB that has a stlylistic synergy with the Ortofon A212 arm.

I assume it was discontinued along with the arm.

See reply 58 here
http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=6812.45

There was an even earlier oval headshell that had a different mounting arrangement but essentially the same Mono A cartridge

BTH K10A
14-02-2012, 23:30
Hi Barry

Another little part of the Ortofon/Fonofilm history is Linnet & Laursen (LL). They uses early Ortofon arms and cartridges in their high quality radio / phonograms that were badge engineered with their own logo the double L.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/1_5f452a0f20b4dd6ef8a40b0e2fe582d4.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/a0155419_2281184.jpg

Linnet & Laursen both previously worked for Bang & Olufsen before setting up their own company. They ceased trading around 1965 so made it into the stereo era but I don't know if they made a stereo phonogram and there were SC or SPU cartridges with their logo.

http://beophile.com/?page_id=2245

Find a few more connections and we'll have six degrees ;)

Pani
06-12-2012, 05:42
Friends, I have been longing to hear an SPU for quite some time now. Recently a friend of mine lent me a SL15 ELL to try out in my system and said it is a very close relative to the SPU and hence should sound 'almost' like an SPU. This cart came with its own STM72 step up transformer. Generally I have read that SPUs sounds warm, rolled off, bold, dark and thick (I may be incorrect but thats the general opinion I got by reading). I expected the same from the SL15 ELL BUT it was nothing like that, the SL15 ELL rather sounded very open, clear, extended and uncoloured. It is also quite a fast cartridge with a very nice flow to the music. Compared to my Kontrapunkt B, the SL15 was a little less refined, slightly less macrodynamic and less bass power but it compensated by having a more open sound, better flow and slightly more nuanced than the Kontra !! Wow thats some achievement considering the the Kontrapunkt B is one of the best mid priced Ortofon of recent times and this SL15 is a 40 year old design. Moreover the current age SPUs have progressed a lot (thats what I read) with products like Meister Silver and the likes, does that mean the SPU Royal N should be a huge step up from the SL15 ELL ?

Barry
06-12-2012, 20:53
Friends, I have been longing to hear an SPU for quite some time now. Recently a friend of mine lent me a SL15 ELL to try out in my system and said it is a very close relative to the SPU and hence should sound 'almost' like an SPU. This cart came with its own STM72 step up transformer. Generally I have read that SPUs sounds warm, rolled off, bold, dark and thick (I may be incorrect but thats the general opinion I got by reading). I expected the same from the SL15 ELL BUT it was nothing like that, the SL15 ELL rather sounded very open, clear, extended and uncoloured. It is also quite a fast cartridge with a very nice flow to the music. Compared to my Kontrapunkt B, the SL15 was a little less refined, slightly less macrodynamic and less bass power but it compensated by having a more open sound, better flow and slightly more nuanced than the Kontra !! Wow thats some achievement considering the the Kontrapunkt B is one of the best mid priced Ortofon of recent times and this SL15 is a 40 year old design. Moreover the current age SPUs have progressed a lot (thats what I read) with products like Meister Silver and the likes, does that mean the SPU Royal N should be a huge step up from the SL15 ELL ?

Hello Pani,

The SL15 ELL is a comparitively rare, higher output, version of the SL15E. I have used Ortofon moving coils for the last 40 years. First with the SL15E and SL15E Mk.II and then with a short lived MC20. I wasn't that enamoured with the MC20, preferring the SL15Es. After the MC20, I got involved with EMT and Denon moving coils, though I still have my SL15E's.

Now I am using a 'new' SPU. It is a recent model using a rare earth magnet, and despite being fitted with a spherical stylus, is fast, detailed, has good attack and is open-sounding. Like you, I can't understand how others find the SPU sounds "warm, rolled off, bold, dark and thick " :scratch:

Certainly the Meister Silver and Royal N models ought to be better, but I'm going to live with, and enjoy, my SPU for a good while before I think about changing.

Regards

zenith2134
29-01-2013, 18:33
I've inherited a 1950s-60s Lp collection played with Ortofon SPU (according to the pictures from back then). Most all of these discs play superbly to this day. I figured a nice new OM-40 Super would keep them sounding nice for years to come! Would love to find an early hi-fi table and original SPU in good shape someday .

Marco
29-01-2013, 22:04
Nice one, Tommy. So much then for the bollocks people spout about heavy-tracking cartridges 're-cutting' records, and over time, causing damage, eh? ;)

Marco.

topoxforddoc
17-03-2016, 22:36
Friends, I have been longing to hear an SPU for quite some time now. Recently a friend of mine lent me a SL15 ELL to try out in my system and said it is a very close relative to the SPU and hence should sound 'almost' like an SPU. This cart came with its own STM72 step up transformer. Generally I have read that SPUs sounds warm, rolled off, bold, dark and thick (I may be incorrect but thats the general opinion I got by reading). I expected the same from the SL15 ELL BUT it was nothing like that, the SL15 ELL rather sounded very open, clear, extended and uncoloured. It is also quite a fast cartridge with a very nice flow to the music. Compared to my Kontrapunkt B, the SL15 was a little less refined, slightly less macrodynamic and less bass power but it compensated by having a more open sound, better flow and slightly more nuanced than the Kontra !! Wow thats some achievement considering the the Kontrapunkt B is one of the best mid priced Ortofon of recent times and this SL15 is a 40 year old design. Moreover the current age SPUs have progressed a lot (thats what I read) with products like Meister Silver and the likes, does that mean the SPU Royal N should be a huge step up from the SL15 ELL ?

I picked up a vintage SL15 ELL this week from a collector on the Wam - £150. It's mounted on my Schroeder Model 2 carbon and fed into the on board phono of my TRON Meteor preamp. Sounds surprisingly good for a 40 year old cartridge. Tracks well. Sounds very open. Lovely midrange and plenty of bass attack. Delicate top end. Certainly a keeper.

walpurgis
17-03-2016, 22:59
Not surprised you like that Charlie. Vintage Ortofon MCs tend to sound lovely. Nice find. :)

topoxforddoc
18-03-2016, 13:18
Not surprised you like that Charlie. Vintage Ortofon MCs tend to sound lovely. Nice find. :)

It's nice to have two 60s vintage carts on my Platine Verdier - the SL15 ELL on my Schroeder and the Decca C4E on my Hadcock.

I wish...
07-04-2017, 21:27
Hi Barry

The Ortofon/SME bayonet is normal for A shell stereo. The EMT diamond versions are rare.

It's certainly and ortofon C-99 and the ESL version was just badge engineering.

The gyro / jewel is an interesting one though. IT it an Ortofon or is it an ESL development?


http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/emttsd15/eslc100scand.jpg

I recently came across an Ortofon made ESL C-100 cartridge that is new old stock and was wondering if someone could shed a light on its sonic possibilities. The picture in the ad is the c-100 with the rounded profile the C-99 is angled. I assume it would be a very similar sound compared to the C-99 which I also have not heard except maybe some slight improvements? This website here has some brief info including a schematic ((http://www.hupse.eu/radio/reproducers/C100.htm)) as well as the specs at the bottom of the page. The price jumped $30 over the C-99 so perhaps it was just high demand. The science is beyond me so what I am asking for is for an experienced Ortofon fan to tell me about the C series mono carts and how having a pair in tandem working might sound. Its pricey hence the research. There is a fellow who has posted a few videos on youtube showing his turntable with the c-100 mounted but I find it hard to tell the "flavour" that way.
Many thanks and I look forward any descriptive language to help me understand what I might be in for with a high mass REK O Kut tonearm.

Barry
26-04-2017, 12:47
Hello Marc,

Sorry I've only just discovered your post. I have absolutely no experience of any of the ESL cartridge range, however if the compliance figures for the C99 match the effective mass of your Rek O Kut arm, then it could work OK.

Can you let have the figures? - I'll then be able to advise more fully.

Regards
Barry

drSM
01-07-2017, 01:11
Just found this great thread.
I have an old S15T which has lost its stylus.
Is it worth getting fixed?

If not, is its built in transformer any use, if it is removed and paired up with
say with an old SL15EmkII (i think) that i have or indeed the Denon 103R?

walpurgis
01-07-2017, 08:44
The S15T has great potential. Some swear by the inbuilt SUT. I don't. If you take the body off and remove the tiny transformer, what you have left is basically an original sixties Ortofon SPU! And it sounds beautiful. A good repair would be worth every penny!

The removed SUT can of course be used with othe Ortofon MC's.

With old Ortofon MC's it is usually worth having the rubber cantilever suspension replaced at the same time as the stylus is repaired, as the rubber suspension ring ages and also start detaching from its mounting.

drSM
01-07-2017, 14:56
The S15T has great potential. Some swear by the inbuilt SUT. I don't. If you take the body off and remove the tiny transformer, what you have left is basically an original sixties Ortofon SPU! And it sounds beautiful. A good repair would be worth every penny!

The removed SUT can of course be used with othe Ortofon MC's.

With old Ortofon MC's it is usually worth having the rubber cantilever suspension replaced at the same time as the stylus is repaired, as the rubber suspension ring ages and also start detaching from its mounting.

Thank you Geoff
I have send off a couple of emails (to Ortofon and Calla) and await their responses.
It would be wonderful to get this cartridge going again.

walpurgis
01-07-2017, 15:10
Thank you Geoff
I have send off a couple of emails (to Ortofon and Calla) and await their responses.
It would be wonderful to get this cartridge going again.

I'm not sure Ortofon will deal with a cartridge that old.

I believe Van Den Hul are good with older models.

There are also other alternatives: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?46490-Cartridge-Repairs-Retipping-and-Replacement-Styli-Suppliers-A-list!

drSM
02-07-2017, 23:59
Hi Geoff
I am on to Van den Hull
Have never heard or used the SPU cartridges. They are big and heavy. Is that becos they too have onboard SUT?

Barry
03-07-2017, 13:13
Hi Geoff
I am on to Van den Hull
Have never heard or used the SPU cartridges. They are big and heavy. Is that because they too have onboard SUT?

The early SPUs (the SPUGT, SPUGTE, SPUT and SPUTE; any with a 'T' in the model designation) did use an on-board SUT (having an enormously high turns ratio of 86:1) which made them heavy (around 33g if I recall). However the transformerless models (SPUG, SPUGE) were fitted with an additional weight to make them weigh the same as those fittted with an SUT, so as to preserve compatability with the operating environment.

Your S15T was one of a pair of successors to the SPU: the S15T (and S15TE) having an inbuilt SUT, with the SL15 (and SL15E) being the lightweight version that used an off-board in-line transformer module (designated the '2-15K'; as it trasformed the 2Ohm coil impedance of the cartridge to one of 15KOhm, suitable for the RIAA phonostage of the preamp). Apart from weight, the mechanical and electrical specification of the two were identical. Upon introduction they were both more expensive than the SPUs (stylus for stylus).

All the transformers used by Ortofon were made for them by the Danish company Joergen Scheu, and transformers made by them now command very high prices on internet auction sites. I do not think however it would be worthwhile in having the transformer removed from your S15T cartridge, as it would ruin the resale value. It would be better, when you have it retipped, to have the transformer disconnected and the output pins wired directly to the cartridge coils. That way you can use alternative SUTs or headamps, and should you later decide to sell the cartridge, the transformer could be put back into use.

About a year ago I bid for an Ortofon S15T cartridge; it sold for £600.


Incidently the thread to which you refer in your OP has been updated with newer images and is now in The Knowledge. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?4205-Manufacturers-Ortofon

drSM
04-07-2017, 02:47
Thanks Barry for that excellent bit of information.
The S-15 T was my father's, And it isn't going to be sold - but thats good advice
I have an initial positive response from CallaMighty of France i think, and await a detailed proposal.
This sounded positive "We do really appreciate the Ortofon SL-15 and we do modify them in order to make them even greater performers"

I would love to get it working again.

I also have MC15 super II and the SL15Q which re in good general condition but i have not dared try them in case the styli may be damaged.

drSM
04-07-2017, 05:33
About a year ago I bid for an Ortofon S15T cartridge; it sold for £600.


There s a fella selling one now on ePay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ortofon-S-15-T-S-15T-Stereo-Turntable-Cartridge-Tested-No-Stylus-/222561897714?hash=item33d1b90cf2:g:dCMAAOSwRUhY94N O

$188 Buy it Now
"This turntable cartrige is in excellent working condition. Both channels (left & right have been tested with a multimeter. "No stylus is included, but a suitable stylus can be found from other eBay sellers"

Barry
04-07-2017, 11:41
Cheers Shahrin,

Thanks for that - I pulled the trigger on it, so await with interest the results of retipping by Van den Hul of your S15T. I think though, I would prefer to go for a conventional elliptical stylus profile, as that would be more approprate to the age of the design.