Listening Volume ????

[keeper]

Hi Guys

I can't find any topics on this but it seems to impact on quality?

I tend to find I adjust it to the CD i'm playing so the tracks don't sound over loud and forced, I just find a sweet spot.

New system syndrome, some time i think it sound great, then I think ouch, but then turn the volume down and then think that sound great.

Is this correct?

Cheers Phil

[The Vinyl Adventure]

i think that might be a your ears/brain thing. or it could be that your new system hasnt run in properly yet.

i have always found it goes something like this

buy new system:
it sounds ok then it sounds great, then i bit crap, then bettter, then you hear something that sounds crap and then it all sounds crap, then you go away come back, listen and wonder what you were thinkin, it sounds great. then you have some wine and it sounds wonderfull and continues too for a while even when sober again the next day. then you have another few bad moments until eventually it breaks in completely and sounds really good!.. but never quite as good as the time it did when you had that bottle of really nice red wine. this is about when you start to feel like you want to upgrade something else.

this small description doesnt take into account the level of guilt that one may suffer from spending such monies on hifi, but that is too much of a variable to put into my simple description of hifi purchace as it can heighten then experiences quite profoundly

.... well thats at least how it goes for me anyway

my advice would beto listen to it at the voloume that sounds best per track... keep the enjoyment levels up!!

[Spectral Morn]

It is my experience that every recording has a level at which it clicks into focus. To loud, and its to much and to little and the sound lacks presence, dimension and drive.

Outside of recording's actual level there is the issue of the levels the formats have. Old CD's tend to need to be played a bit louder than new ones which are mostly loud and compressed-with these it can be a bit harder to find the volume sweet spot. Vinyl generally has less volume than digital...but not always.

Then there is the ability of the amplifier to drive the speakers and energize the air within it i.e. drive the room. The range of the volume pot can be an issue too.

If you have to turn the volume up to loud for the music to click, then I suspect the amplifier and speakers are not well matched or the speakers are to small to move enough air to drive the room. Ideally the sound should have clarity and drive and the overall sound, should sound effortless.

Great, well matched system also tend to sound all of the above at low volumes...just expanding in soundstaging as the volume is turned up. Poor set ups don't expand but grow louder and more ragged, gaining a brittle edge and growing bright and harsh.

Some times though one just wants to turn it up to 11 and rock out :gig:


Regards D S D L

[James G]

Yeah, what Neil says.

And sometimes I think it'd be nice to have some sort of standard engineering compliance for audio CDs so that when you saw that certain seal on a CD you know what kind of product you're getting.

[muffinman]

Listening Volume ????

11?

:gig:


RATS!!! Neil beat me to it :)

[Ali Tait]

Also agree with Neil here.Every recording has it's ideal volume level I reckon.

[The Grand Wazoo]

My guide is simply to adjust things so that the very quietest sounds are just audible. This seems to be the best way to achieve a 'realistic' level. It often renders the loudest sounds very, very loud!!

Of course, it means you have to initially play it too loud in order to be sure you've found the quietest sounds.

Unless of course you only listen to music where (to quote from Deep Purple's - Made in Japan) 'everything is louder than everything else'!! - In this case, of course, you must invoke 'Tufnel's Law'.

..........enjoy...............

[Mike]

Also agree with Neil here.Every recording has it's ideal volume level I reckon.

Ditto from me too. :)

[DSJR]

In my single days, I loved to turn the volume up and this was one advantage of having a day off mid week when the neighbours were out at work.

In more recent times though, I just don't want to turn the volume up, despite the Spendors not minding in our small room. The active ATC's do tend to "project" the sound too much these days and I don't want everything almost ruthlessly exposed (well, they are proper monitors when all's said and done!).

I used my headphones last Saturday and turned the volume up a bit too much. I'm still suffering, but it's getting better slowly.... (I was a total pr@t doing this, I should have learned..).

[daveyboy]

I find that moving the volume on my amp towards 10 oclock is the maximum by then it is very loud, so loud in fact that you don't appreciate just quite how loud until you have been sat there for perhaps half hour before leaving and then reappearing and then it hits you :),

However 9 oclock is more than sufficient, it's just that a bit more makes the bass resonate a bit more and so on

[John]

I think one of the hardest tests of any system is to sound dynmic at lower volumes its called the soundfloor level and this will very from system to system as well as recording to recording

[Marco]

Then there is the ability of the amplifier to drive the speakers and energize the air within it i.e. drive the room.


Good point, Neil. This aspect of a system doesn't get discussed enough or receive the attention it deserves, IMO.

Getting speakers to 'work' in the room in terms of the usual parameters is one thing, and of course essential, but optimising the set-up so that what you describe above is achieved is something else. If done right, it can transform a good system into a truly great one by giving music a 'live' feeling and the sort of 'physicality' in terms of sound which one gets at a gig or concert.

One of the best ways of achieving this effect in my experience is to use the biggest (high quality) speakers you can in the smallest room that works and is practical. Of course, if you can afford it, then go for a big room and some massive amps and speakers to drive it, but a similar and arguably even better effect can be achieved by adopting the former method.

This is what I do to great effect with the SP100s, Mana supports, and the rest of my system. My room is 14.8 feet x 10.5 feet, and with only 30W of Class A valve power and 90db efficient speakers (with 12" bass drivers), I can 'energise' the room to quite scary effect and create some pretty serious SPLs, so much so that you 'feel' the music as well as hear it and create a mini 'snapshot' of a live performance :fingers: :gig:

It's not the first time that I've returned home from a gig and played the band's CD or record of the same music on my system and felt that what I was listening to at home was very similar to what I had just heard live... This always puts a huge smile on my face and for me is what hi-fi is truly all about! I'm sure that you can relate to what I'm describing, Neil ;)

John is also spot-on here:


I think one of the hardest tests of any system is to sound dynmic at lower volumes its called the soundfloor level and this will very from system to system as well as recording to recording


A truly great system 'does the business' at whisper levels late at night as well as 'gig levels' during normal hours. I was up until 2am this morning listening to music this way, with the volume barely on - but the sound was still dynamic and satisfying, musically - i.e. nothing was 'missing', with my wife fast asleep in the room next door. I can do this with vinyl or CD.

Marco.

[DSJR]

It's a "Classic BBC Legacy" thing I think Marco - being able to play convincingly at lower volumes. I heard Tannoy Turnberry's doing it too, whereas some Zu Druids needed to be thrashed for the sound to fill the same room, the sound collapsed at lower volumes.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Not to be too much of a pedant, but when I read this:




A truly great system 'does the business' at whisper levels late at night as well as 'gig levels' during normal hours. I was up until 2am this morning listening to music this way, with the volume barely on - but the sound was still dynamic and satisfying, musically - i.e. nothing was 'missing', with my wife fast asleep in the room next door. I can do this with vinyl or CD.

Marco.

I went back & read this:


My guide is simply to adjust things so that the very quietest sounds are just audible. This seems to be the best way to achieve a 'realistic' level. It often renders the loudest sounds very, very loud!!

These two things do not add up Marco.
Yes, a great system will be musically satisfying at very low volumes.......but there will be something missing.

Also by definition, the dynamic quality you are hearing must be relative, simply because the difference between levels of the loudest & quietest sounds you're hearing is significantly reduced.

[Marco]

I think you're right, Dave, but I'm sure that other types of speakers can also do this quite effectively.

Big Tannoys are certainly another example I can think of and also large and efficient OB designs. I suspect that correct electrical amp/speaker matching is a big factor as well as loudspeaker voicing. If you've got 82db speakers and a 3W SET amp, it ain't gonna happen :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Marco]

These two things do not add up Marco.
Yes, a great system will be musically satisfying at very low volumes.......but there will be something missing.

Also by definition, the dynamic quality you are hearing must be relative, simply because the difference between levels of the loudest & quietest sounds you're hearing is significantly reduced.


I agree, Chris. That's why I put "missing" inside inverted commas ;)

The point is that for me, subjectively, in terms of suspending disbelief, there is nothing 'missing' :)

Marco.

[The Grand Wazoo]

There ya go!!

That's what I thought you meant!

I just thought I should point it out as someone who doesn't know better might read it and wonder why they can't do the same no matter what they change! I'd hate to send anyone off in pursuit of something that doesn't exist.

Sorry, my thought processes are a bit critical at the mo' after a brief exchange with Daveyboy last night over on the 'Advice Sought on DAC' thread.

What with that & thinking about 'myths & bunkum' for the post I made with that title.............I'll get me coat.

[daveyboy]

I think when you offer the opinion about quiet listening, well it's one of those things where obviously your hearing adjusts more to that at night and indeed I can appreciate just how good my budget range hi fi sounds at night. It it excellent for comparatively cheap speakers and amp. However during the day I just find it difficult to not listen to my music at quite a loud volume.

[Darrenw]

best tip I picked up re hifi some years ago was to turn the volume up gradually until its too loud - then back it off a bit and you should find your sweet spot - works for everyone as we all have different levels at which it is too loud

well worth trying

rgds
darren

[maxrob200]

I find that many recordings tend to be mixed poorly. The instruments are too splashy and in yer face while vocals are thin or overly sibilant. Good jazz recordings seem to achieve a good balance and often have great depth and separation at low volume levels as well. Modern pop recordings are thin and compressed and are probably designed to cater for "ipod" playback with the smiley equaliser settings to accentuate bass and treble

[Ali Tait]

One thing I have found is that many audioholics I know seem to prefer a louder volume setting than I am comfortable with.Maybe that's why I'm very happy running statics,they go plenty loud enough for me!

[Spectral Morn]

One thing I have found is that many audioholics I know seem to prefer a louder volume setting than I am comfortable with.Maybe that's why I'm very happy running statics,they go plenty loud enough for me!


Add me to your list of those who don't like playing really loud....I don't need to. Fantastic resolution at low levels (when everything is working okay ;)). I do turn it up a bit so that it snaps into focus and once in awhile a bit louder ;).



Regards D S D L

[John]

For me music is so much more than just a listening experience of course there is an emotional side but also a physical side so from time to time I want to feel the music in my body Its from going too many gigs!!!

[Ali Tait]

Add me to your list of those who don't like playing really loud....I don't need to. Fantastic resolution at low levels (when everything is working okay ;)). I do turn it up a bit so that it snaps into focus and once in awhile a bit louder ;).



Regards D S D L

Me too! :)

[aquapiranha]

I listen mostly in the evening when it seems I need less volume for some reason - however I do like a "live" sound and one or two people have commented that I do have the volume quite high compared to the level they listen at.

[doodoos]

For me listening is something of a 'session'. I don't use my main system for background hash - I only use it for serious listening and the volume is quite loud -as I would expect from a live venue.

[Sand Dancin Donkey Walker]

Hi Guys

I too as a general rule listen in the evenings. As for the volume setting I think it depends on my current frame of mind, and the music that happens to be playing at the time.


Metalica - loud to seriously loud
AC / DC - As above
Larry Carlton and Robben Ford etc - Slightly less than above, but still a good level
Michael Hedges - Backoff the level and enjoy
Jazz group - As above

Some music just needs to be played at reasonable level or loud. Other need a more delicate touch that to high a volume setting just destroys.

Its all personal preference, enjoy it as you want. Just listen out for the neighbours.

Andy - SDDW

[Mike Reed]

I've just put in a Chord Anthem One between my Naim 552 pre. and the two E.A.R. monos. Just wanted to see what an expensive (relatively) interconnect would achieve over my cannibalised bog-standard Naim i/c.

The difference is:- I have to turn the vol. control down on all sources.

Didn't expect that!!!!

Can one i/c convey more signal than another over one metre? Flies in the face of physics a bit if it does, I feel.

May be that the Anthem is more upfront (forward) in its presentation so it's a perceived rather than an actual vol. difference. Certainly the Anthem is full-blooded, but seems to lose nothing in detail retrieval, bass or treble to the Naim despite its obvious dynamics.

However, I prefer a bit of flexibility on the vol. control. To be able to turn it up for better effect but not have it get 'louder'.

Shall soldier on for a week or so, then revert to the Naim. I dunno; maybe the Chord hasn't fully (re) burned in, as it hadn't been used for awhile.

Still surprised by the volume boost, though!

[Spectral Morn]

I've just put in a Chord Anthem One between my Naim 552 pre. and the two E.A.R. monos. Just wanted to see what an expensive (relatively) interconnect would achieve over my cannibalised bog-standard Naim i/c.

The difference is:- I have to turn the vol. control down on all sources.

Didn't expect that!!!!

Can one i/c convey more signal than another over one metre? Flies in the face of physics a bit if it does, I feel.

May be that the Anthem is more upfront (forward) in its presentation so it's a perceived rather than an actual vol. difference. Certainly the Anthem is full-blooded, but seems to lose nothing in detail retrieval, bass or treble to the Naim despite its obvious dynamics.

However, I prefer a bit of flexibility on the vol. control. To be able to turn it up for better effect but not have it get 'louder'.

Shall soldier on for a week or so, then revert to the Naim. I dunno; maybe the Chord hasn't fully (re) burned in, as it hadn't been used for awhile.

Still surprised by the volume boost, though!

Hi Mike

I have heard this too...so you are not going mad. I suspect it is because the spec of the cable..resistance, capacitance etc more closely matches your gear, so the cable is not acting like a filter as the old one did; so it is letting more signal through. Now as to whether or not you like that sound is another matter. Crude explanation and one I hope is right.


Regards D S D L

[Barry]

I find that I adjust the listening level for everything I listen to, regardless of the source. It varies LP to LP and CD to CD. In each case there is a level where it just seems to sound 'correct'.

For me this manifests itself as a sense of scale, for example: folk music or solo artists and singers sound ridiculous if played too loudly; their instruments and mouths appear to be far too 'big'. Conversly, orchestral music, jazz and rock music sounds 'wrong' if played too softly; in all cases you loose dynamics and for live recordings, the atmosphere and size of the performance venue becomes less clear.

When the listening level is set correctly, then small changes around that level appear as if you are moving closer or further from the performers.

I would agree that a test of a good system is to see how quietly it can be played, whilst still providing resolution and detail, and for late night listening I do have to turn things down and listen at a lower level than I would prefer, however you will always loose the sense of scale and sheer presence.

Despite using electrostatic speakers, there are times when I do turn it up to '11'.

Barry

[Mike Reed]

Hi Mike

I have heard this too...so you are not going mad. I suspect it is because the spec of the cable..resistance, capacitance etc more closely matches your gear, so the cable is not acting like a filter as the old one did; so it is letting more signal through. Now as to whether or not you like that sound is another matter. Crude explanation and one I hope is right.


Regards D S D L


Your hypothesis holds water, Neil, but over one metre? And nearly five minutes' reduction of the 'volume clock'? There's also the 'elasticity' of incremental volume increase, where previously I could advance the control quite a bit for a controlled and effortless (meaning not getting too loud/harsh) bit of welly. I seem to have foregone that flexibility with the Anthem.

Oh, well, time will tell, and Chord wanted me to report my findings as my combination interested them (sounded quite genuine, anyway!)