View Full Version : Well done, Mods - I doff my cap to you
jandl100
06-04-2013, 07:06
Well done and thanks to all the mods on AOS - in my opinion, you are doing a very fine and fair job in what can occasionally be difficult circumstances. :thumbsup:
Thanks Jerry. Mercifully, "difficult circumstances" don't come along too often! ;)
Cheers, Jerry. I presume that you're referring to the incident with Harry?
If so, I'll be summarising the outcome of recent events in the other thread in Critic's Corner, initially started by him, including outlining the reasons why the dispute started and publishing, word-for-word, our recent email exchanges for all to see, including the supposedly "quite appalling emails" I've been sending Harry, as people deserve to know the truth and comment accordingly, should they wish to do so. I have nothing to hide.
In fact, here is the full exchange, so judge for yourself whether there is anything "quite appalling" in there or not. I make no apologies though for anyone losing the will to live halfway through reading all this pish :lol:
Ok, it all started with Harry sending this email via the forum's 'Contact Us' form, after the recent fracas ended with him receiving a temporary ban (a decision taken, incidentally, simply to stop him spamming the forum with umpteen posts containing his repeated indignation at not being fairly treated, which in reality was all in his head, until we'd had a chance to assess the situation properly):
Any chance of coming back if I say sorry? Harry
Hi Harry,
I'm just back from visiting friends in Scotland and was away when this fracas kicked off. When you're free, if you call me we can discuss the matter of your ban, which incidentally was not instigated by me. I was on the M6 at the time, driving home!
Speak soon.
ATB,
Marco.
Hi Marco.
Thanks very much for getting in touch.
As you know I've been under a bit of pressure lately. We all have personal shit to deal with and I'm not one to seek support from people I don't personally know so I won't be going into detail.
Anyway, I know I let you down over the shelf and I'm really sorry about that. I'm sure you'd fully understand if you knew the circumstances.
Re the spat on AoS. I object to being called an arrogant twat and the other insults that were hurled at me by Clive. Like you, I don't like being ignored and both Chris and Martin ignored my PMs when I was trying to sort things out. As for being told to 'shut it or we'll shut it for you' by a mod (Alex) as well as his other inflammatory comments in PMs I don't need to ask how you'd react.
I'll ring you tomorrow if that's OK.
Harry.
Hi Harry,
No problem - I can assure you that this situation wouldn't have arisen had I been at home...
Do me a favour, though, and don't post any further on Richard Dunn's site, as all you're doing is fanning the flames and giving the resident loons their kicks over an incident that had nothing whatsoever to do with me.
Cheers.
Any idea what time you'll be calling tomorrow - AM or PM?
ATB,
Marco.
Marco,
I will not post again on Dunn's forum until I've spoken with you. I have already deleted a post I made.
I was fuming over the events of the past couple of days. I've spent a lifetime campaigning against unfairness and injustice and was prepared to lose my job over principles I treasure. The actions of a few people on your forum were, quite frankly uncalled for and at times rude beyond belief.
To save us time when we chat, here's a few FACTS.
1. It started with an argument about politics. The debate was robust and adult. I didn't resort to personal insults. I never do.
2. Some person called Clive called me a number of abusive names including arrogant twat.
3. One of the mods (same guy who had previously ignored TWO messages I sent him) closed the thread and ticked me off. Nothing was said until much later about Clive's childish and abusive remarks.
4. There was then some selective 'tidying' of the thread with Clive's comments amended and mine left. This was a deliberate attempt to rewrite history. It was the sort if thing that you've previously criticised Dunn for.
5. Having tried to reason with Alex, he also resorted to abuse. The final straw was when he posted 'shut it. If you don't shut it, we'll shut it for you'. Now I'm all for free speech but you can't have it both ways. If he can use terms like that them I am surely at liberty to say something along the lines of 'fuck off you prick of I'll smack you in the gob'. Where would that get us if I'd done do?
6. Having been treated unfairly I tried to post my feelings in Critics Corner. This you'll recall is the section of your site that you are most proud of. You mentioned it recently.
7. The thread was closed quickly. I posted again. That was deleted.
8. I was repeatedly threatened about my behaviour publicly but virtually nothing by PM
I could go on . . .
But you know what the worst thing in all this was? The behaviour of Martin T. This is a man I've praised to the hilt in the past (just check) who I've exchanged many PMs with and whose expertise had been a great help to me. Why he behaved in such a way is a mystery to me. Never have I criticised him and I never would.
I'm not totally innocent in all of this. I was treated unfairly and I was pushed and pushed until I snapped. I know you're dead straight so I trust you to draw your own conclusions.
TBH I'm not bothered one way or the other about continuing on your forum but banning me (without informing me BTW) was totally unfair and I NEVER accept unfairness.
The two most powerful men in British politics (Blair and Mandelson) tried to crush me and shut me up. They failed. If people on your forum think I can be bullied, threatened, abused and treated unfairly they are sadly mistaken. They've picked the wrong man.
I'm sorry you've been landed with this. But it's your forum so I guess you take the rough with the smooth.
Just let me know when's a good time for you and I'll call.
Regards
Harry
The following email is after we had spoken on the phone the first time, where we'd had an amicable exchange and where he agreed that he'd been out of order for the way he had behaved on the forum. He also agreed to apologise for it, as long as Alex and Clive reciprocated, which I said would most likely be the case when I asked them.
However, I never got the chance to finish our discussion and tell him that one of the conditions of my decision was to ban him for a week, as I had to end our chat and run Del somewhere in the car:
Hi Harry,
Thanks for calling me earlier. Always nice chatting. I think we now understand each other a little better...!
However, there are still a couple of loose ends we need to tie up, especially regarding what happens now, in terms of dealing appropriately with this matter on AoS, including the retraction of your remarks about me on Richard Dunn's site, and an apology for wrongly making them, as promised, which I'd be much obliged if you did ASAP.
I've tried to get hold of you today about 3 or 4 times on your mobile, but it just keeps ringing out. Therefore, please phone me on my landline number as soon as you're free, so we can bring this matter to a close, to our mutual satisfaction, and move onwards and upwards!
Speak soon.
ATB,
Marco.
The following is the email he sent to me after he phoned me back and I told him that I was going to ban him for a week, but was unwilling to do the same with Alex or Clive. The reasons for that are explained in the following email exchanges. He then hung up the phone in a huff, as he was losing the argument, and sent me this email:
Hi Marco.
I make no apologies for saying goodbye and ending the conversation.
We had two very thorough and convivial discussions where I put my hands up, accepted blame and offered to apologise.
As I probably started the whole thing I was willing to start the apology process, having had your word that Clive and Alex would then follow up with apologies of their own (no guarantees that they would, but I accept that).
I was also happy to accept a one week ban of whatever punishment you saw fit. I am still willing to accept that.
What I take issue with is the other people involved (and there wasn't just myself, Clive and Alex) being treated differently to me. Clive directly insulted me and Alex insulted me and threatened me in a bullying way. As I made clear over and over again NOBODY THREATENS ME.
By going down the route you propose you are saying that moderators (whose behaviour should be better than that of members) can basically threaten and insult members with impunity.
Quite frankly I don't give a shit whether it was out of character of Clive and Alex- it's actually an easy cop out - they are as guilty as I am and as I tried to explain ad nausem, fairness and even handedness is all I'm interested in.
It's your forum so you can do whatever you want. Ban me for a week, a month or permanently, it's your right and your call.
Have a good weekend
Harry
When I was in the process of replying to that, he sent me another email, as follows:
Hi Marco.
Just to avoid any misunderstanding I just wanted to ask a favour.
I'd hate for anyone to think I'd left the forum in a strop, so once you've made your decision (which I fully accept) could you please make an announcement on the forum to that effect.
As I said earlier, it's your forum and therefore entirely your call how you deal with me and the other protagonists but I wouldn't want anyone to think I'd spat my dummy out in a strop. All I've asked for from the outset is fairness.
Harry
...to which I replied:
Hi Harry,
Sure, that's fine, as long as you retract your unfair remarks about me on RD's forum.
Let's see how it goes after you've read my last (lengthy) email. I want to resolve this situation amicably as much as you do!!
ATB,
Marco.
This is my reply to his first email (the one before the last one above), where I'm quoting and replying to Harry, who speaks first:
I make no apologies for saying goodbye and ending the conversation. We had two very thorough and convivial discussions where I put my hands up, accepted blame and offered to apologise.
I reply:
Indeed, and that was appreciated, as I was doing my best to arrive at a fair conclusion to this matter. I wouldn't have hung up the phone, as you did, however, as that solves nothing. We should be big enough and ugly enough to have a frank exchange of views on the phone, Harry, without either of us going off in a huff.
Harry wrote:
As I probably started the whole thing I was willing to start the apology process, having had your word that Clive and Alex would then follow up with apologies of their own (no guarantees that they would, but I accept that).
I reply:
Indeed, and I would've asked that they both apologised to you. That would've been part of the deal.
Harry wrote:
I was also happy to accept a one week ban of whatever punishment you saw fit. I am still willing to accept that.
I reply:
That's good, as that's exactly what I'll have to do, after which you can decide whether you wish to remain or not on AoS.
Harry wrote:
What I take issue with is the other people involved (and there wasn't just myself, Clive and Alex) being treated differently to me. Clive directly insulted me and Alex insulted me and threatened me in a bullying way. As I made clear over and over again NOBODY THREATENS ME.
I reply:
I get the message, but why so aggressive? Thing is, as I explained, you weren't being threatened by Alex, in the way you're suggesting, a fact which you appeared to accept, until that is you discovered I was unwilling to ban Alex or Clive for their part in this matter, and so have now decided to play the victim because you haven't got your own way! :doh:
Like I said on the phone, Harry, it's not YOU who decides what is fair or not on AoS; it's the moderators and the forum owner, because someone eventually has to call the shots.
You're entitled to disagree with us and defend your position, but at the end of the day if you wish to remain a part of our community, then you have to abide by the decisions of those who have the final say in any matter - and at the end of the day that judgement call is mine.
Harry wrote:
By going down the route you propose you are saying that moderators (whose behaviour should be better than that of members) can basically threaten and insult members with impunity.
I reply:
Not at all. As I said, if I thought for one second that Alex or Clive were equally as culpable, then I'd have given them a week's holiday, too.
In my opinion, as far as Clive is concerned, he was simply reacting to your rather rude and provocative remarks about how he should clean his house or car. As I said to you on the phone, quite frankly, I'd have told you the same thing if you'd been as cheeky to me! You also made a similarly inappropriate remark to Ian (UV101) about being divorced after he mentioned that he wore the pants in his house, or some such. You have to lose your confrontational tone, as it is completely unacceptable on AoS.
Basically, you cannot speak to people like that, Harry, and not expect a reaction... I'm not condoning what Clive said, but I can understand it, given such provocation.
It's the same with Alex, he wasn't threatening you in the sense that you've taken it, but merely telling you in no uncertain terms that if you don't behave, then you'll be banned, which as a moderator he's perfectly entitled to do. The warning was given by him under severe duress from your continuing to argue and failure to grasp the point, i.e. the legitimate reasons behind the moderating decisions that had been taken on the thread in question. After reading the relevant exchanges on the forum, that fact becomes blatantly clear.
*That* was the message behind Alex telling you to 'shut it, or we'll shut it for you', not how you've interpreted it...! :rolleyes:
Harry wrote:
Quite frankly I don't give a shit whether it was out of character of Clive and Alex- it's actually an easy cop out - they are as guilty as I am and as I tried to explain ad nausem, fairness and even handedness is all I'm interested in.
I reply:
Even-handedness is also what I'm aiming for, but in terms of punitive action, it only applies when all parties responsible for causing a particular situation are equally culpable.
I'll give you a scenario: someone tries to stab another person in the street, with the intention of killing them, but in the ensuing struggle, the person being attacked manages to take the knife from the attacker and, in self-defence, stabs the attacker and kills him instead.
In your opinion, who is more guilty, the person who conducted the initial attack or the person who defended themselves and retaliated accordingly - and crucially, do both deserve to be punished equally for their actions??
That's exactly what you're suggesting happens, regarding your dispute with Alex and Clive. You were the attacker/aggressor, just like the guy was with the knife in my fictional scenario, and they were merely responding to your aggression in self-defence, yet you think that Alex and Clive should be punished in the same way as you??
Hopefully you can see not only how ridiculous that would be, but also how unfair, too!!!
That is why my proposal is for all three of you to apologise for your behaviour/remarks (that part is Clive's and Alex's 'punishment'), but the aggressor/instigator of the situation (which you've already admitted to, i.e. you) is the one who receives the greater punishment (i.e. a week's ban). It's got bugger all to do with cliques or favouritism and everything to do with what you're preaching: fairness - or rather punishment commensurate of the crime, as it were.
If you cannot understand that and you disagree, then we may as well just draw a line under the matter, 'agree to disagree', and move on with our lives. However, if you can accept where I'm coming from and respect my wishes, then after your week's ban is up, we can all move on and put this unfortunate incident behind us!
Please advise me of how you wish to proceed.
Enjoy your weekend
ATB,
Marco.
Harry then sent the following email in response:
Hi Marco.
Nice backtracking mate.
You told me on the phone that you would have difficulty banning a moderator. I can ALMOST understand that.
But now it now seems that Clive won't be banned either. So calling someone an arrogant twat and a tosser is fine in your book but my actions weren't. Strange.
As I've repeatedly told you. I am happy to accept my share of the blame and I'm also happy to accept my punishment. WHAT I'M NOT PREPARED TO ACCEPT IS UNFAIRNESS, THREATS OR BULLYING.
Don't ever try for a job in the diplomatic service. You'd struggle. Throughout our two conversations today (forgive me but I took almost the whole lot down in shorthand, like to keep my speed up) you agreed that ALL protagonists should be treated equally. That's NOT what you are saying now.
As I said, it's your forum. Do as you wish but please make it public. I don't want anyone thinking I've stormed off.
Harry
...to which I replied, again quoting his previous email...
Harry wrote:
Nice backtracking mate. You told me on the phone that you would have difficulty banning a moderator. I can ALMOST understand that.
I reply:
No backtracking - that's not what I said. I said that I wasn't going to ban Alex as he wasn't as culpable as you for this situation. It's you twisting things/failing to grasp what I said, not me backtracking!
Harry wrote:
But now it now seems that Clive won't be banned either. So calling someone an arrogant twat and a tosser is fine in your book but my actions weren't. Strange.
I reply:
Not strange at all. He's also not as culpable as you for what happened. This was explained in my scenario with the knife incident, which you've conveniently decided to ignore......
Is being impudent and confrontational fine in your book?
Harry wrote:
As I've repeatedly told you. I am happy to accept my share of the blame and I'm also happy to accept my punishment. WHAT I'M NOT PREPARED TO ACCEPT IS UNFAIRNESS, THREATS OR BULLYING.
I reply:
The only unfairness is in your head, mate. Also, at the end of the day, if you wish to remain a part of AoS, you'll have to be prepared to accept what you're told.
Harry wrote:
Throughout our two conversations today (forgive me but I took almost the whole lot down in shorthand, like to keep my speed up) you agreed that ALL protagonists should be treated equally. That's NOT what you are saying now.
I reply:
It's not simply a case of all protagonists being treated equally, but also those more culpable being treated accordingly - and YOU are more culpable than Alex or Clive, which is why you're being punished differently. It is this fact that you're failing to grasp.
Anyway, either you accept my stance on this matter or you don't, Harry. I'm afraid that I simply don't have the time to argue or go round in circles with you any further.
ATB,
Marco.
Harry then sent the following email:
Hi Marco.
You should go into politics mate. When I used to have to deal with Blair, Mandelson, Prescott and others on an almost daily basis, I got very well used to backsliding, changing stances, not saying what they meant etc etc etc. That's why journalists keep their notebooks for years. I still have every one of mine in the loft. Best front page exclusive I ever had was a result of remembering a quote from Peter Mandelson and being able to find it in my notebook. Nice £10k bonus (oops sorry I lapsed into Clive there).
Anyway, I know what you said because I've just read back through my notes so none of your 'didn't say that' bollocks.
At the risk of repeating myself again (and I don't know how many times I need to say this) it's your forum, you control it and you make the decisions. So, with that said AGAIN, do whatever you want. Ban me for a week, a month, forever, it won't alter a thing in my life. The choice is yours but please be good enough to make it public. I ACCEPT whatever punishment Il Duce decides. I can't make it plainer than that.
As for the doctored threads, the deleted posts, the insults and all the other stuff it's all duly noted. You criticise others so live by the sword, die by the sword.
I'm afraid if you want to come across as the straight, honest broker you like to think you are, you can't just talk the talk, you have to walk the walk as well. In our two conversations today you REPEATEDLY told me you'd be fair and even handed. You repeatedly told me Alex was wrong. You repeatedly told me Clive was wrong and you repeatedly told me there were no cliques. I call bullshit on those claims.
I may not be a pompous, arrogant twat like Clive, I don't have bi-polar disorder like Andre (oops, that wasn't confidential was it?) and just like Alex, I'm far to nice a fella to tell you to shut it or WE'LL shut if for you, but I tell you what, I think that's us done.
Take care.
Harry
PS If Alex or any of his mates are still up for shutting me up, please feel free to pass on my phone number and we'll arrange a bake off.
Ciao, for now, I've got a couple of trains to catch. I'm sure they'll be running on time ;-)
...to which I replied:
Hi Harry,
This is getting us nowhere, mate. If you want to talk to me and attempt to resolve this sitaution, then lift up the phone. I honestly don't have the time to type reams of prose in response to your emails.
The ball is in your court, although I would point out that the more you post on Dunn's site, the more you're damaging not only your reputation, but also the likelihood of us resolving this matter amicably.
You are also going back on your word, as you promised that you would remove your unfair remarks (which you've admitted to), and so not only are you not keeping your word, but further fanning the flames!
ATB,
Marco.
He then replied:
Hi Marco.
No I'm not going back on my word. That's what you did (I have the shorthand notes).
If we'd agreed a FAIR deal I'd have kept my side of it. As I said I'm a man of my word. Sadly, you're not.
I have no intention of calling you.
As I told you earlier, it's your forum to do as you wish. Ban me , delete posts, remove abusive comments that your mates made etc etc.
I couldn't be clearer I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK WHAT YOU DO. You tried to bullshit and dupe me and you failed.
As for damaging my reputation, quite the reverse I'm afraid. I have a feeling my reputation is going to improve massively.
Harry
...to which I replied (as partly quoted by him on Dunn's site):
Hi Harry,
You are in no position to make demands, as long as you continue to post shite on Dunn's forum. Therefore, I won't be doing what I've promised until you reciprocate. Scratch that, you're simply not worth the effort.
I know you have no intention of calling me as you're not man enough to do so (that fact was made obvious earlier when you stropped off like a girl), and so would rather hide behind a computer. So be it, therefore I will be ignoring your emails from now on.
Regarding your reputation, well, only life's losers and outcasts post on Dunn's shithole, so perhaps that's where you belong? Dave (Synsei) called me earlier this evening and is very disappointed by your decision to post on Dunn's site, as will no doubt others on AoS who had any sympathy for you. Yup, that will no doubt enhance your reputation, lol!
Cheerio, Harry. You're obviously a bitter and twisted old man, just like Richard Dunn, so the pair of you deserve each other.
Take care.
Marco.
P,S You should know that our earlier phone conversation was taped, so you have your notes, and I have what's been recorded on a dictaphone, for reference ;)
And that's it, chaps. I've now blocked him from sending me any further emails. Judge for yourself what went on.
Marco.
jandl100
06-04-2013, 08:43
Fook me, talk about losing the will to live. :doh:
Bye bye, Harry. :wave:
Have fun on Dunn's putrid pile of pus of a forum. :thumbsup: :lol:
It's a shame - you should have stayed posting about hifi. You had lots of interesting things to say about that. Ah well.
Audioman
06-04-2013, 08:46
This is an unfortunate outcome. Having been involved in that discussion I do think one other member should have received a wrap across the knuckles. So in that respect Harry did have a case. I feel that his deeply held views do lead him to get carried away a bit. I'm sure this could have and should have been resolved amicably. I see Harry overreacting and posting on Mr Dunn's forum made matters difficult. I'm mystified why he has done this. I can only imagine there are other problems in his life at the moment which has caused this irrational behaviour. Sad to see him go from a hi-fi point of view as he made some interesting and valuable contributions to the forum.
Ha! Harry, rather predictably, is now trying to claim that I'm hiding emails. Well, I can assure everyone that I'm not. Therefore, I challenge him to publish the ones that he's claiming I've withheld...
Come on, Harry, let's see you materialise something I've written out of thin air, or perhaps use your 'journalistic licence' to invent it? ;)
As for the rest of your nonsense, yes I've omitted to mention what we discussed on the phone (much of which you've either made up or twisted to suit your agenda), but it's all been recorded on a dictaphone, for future reference, (one Del uses for college), which can be played back to anyone who wishes to call me! :)
In the meantime, after receiving Alex's permission, here is the complete PM exchange he had with Harry (including his subsequent comments in the mod room), as we have nothing to hide:
Quote (Alex) to the rest of the team:
"Here's the entire PM exchange in chronological order."
Hi Alex. I've been restrained in my comments on the forum. I believe on dealing with stuff like this man to man. Please don't ever tell me to 'shut it' again. Harry
Harry,
You've been asked nicely, several times - to contain yourself, yet refuse - and keep trying to rake it over again and again - presumably because of this vendetta you say is being waged against you - well your self fulfilling prophecy might just come true. And no, that's not a threat, it is a statement of a likely outcome.
I can only imagine you are trying to commit suicide by "death by cop" - perhaps in the vain hope that it will make you look like some sort of martyr to those who also feel you are wronged by the AoS clique?
Oh, and by the way, how does me not being allowed to tell you to shut it fit in with your stance on free speech??? :scratch:
Sorry Harry, but if you can't see that you have pushed this too far then there's not much else I can say to you.
Alex
Harry - I understand from Martin that you didn't receive my PM reply - timed at 12:11 today - doesn't appear to be a problem from my end, clearly shows you as the recipient and is in my sent items, but just in case, I am resending to you now.
Alex
Hi Alex. I've been restrained in my comments on the forum. I believe on dealing with stuff like this man to man. Please don't ever tell me to 'shut it' again. Harry
Harry,
You've been asked nicely, several times - to contain yourself, yet refuse - and keep trying to rake it over again and again - presumably because of this vendetta you say is being waged against you - well your self fulfilling prophecy might just come true. And no, that's not a threat, it is a statement of a likely outcome.
I can only imagine you are trying to commit suicide by "death by cop" - perhaps in the vain hope that it will make you look like some sort of martyr to those who also feel you are wronged by the AoS clique?
Oh, and by the way, how does me not being allowed to tell you to shut it fit in with your stance on free speech??? :scratch:
Sorry Harry, but if you can't see that you have pushed this too far then there's not much else I can say to you.
Alex
Hi Alex,
Free speech is fine but you can't have it both ways. Telling people to shut it or else is juvenile and pathetic. Would you want me to behave in that way?
Harry
Just got it and replied.
An addition
1. Don't ever threaten me again.
2. Show me where I've mentioned a vendetta against me.
Harry
Hi Alex,
Free speech is fine but you can't have it both ways. Telling people to shut it or else is juvenile and pathetic. Would you want me to behave in that way?
Harry
Harry - Juvenile and pathetic or not (in your opinion) I felt I had no other option, because frankly the "nice cop" approach has had no effect.
Whether you like it or not you don't have a God given right to free speech on this forum, as we have an ethos which tries to maintain a modicum of decorum amongst our membership - I as one of the "Forum Leaders" (it says so under my name, we don't use the term "moderator" as we usually have very little to moderate) asked you to calm it down a bit (paraphrasing, obviously) and you chose to ignore my request and those of other "Forum Leaders". Continued breaking of the "rules" is only going to end one way, I'm afraid, because AoS is much bigger than you or I, and is not going to be ruined by one individual who won't let it lie.
There really isn't any point in keep going over it - I'm sure I've made my point.
Alex
As I said. No modify tells me to shut it and then repeatedly threatens me. Have I made that clear?
I didn't reply to the last one - which is why I think it got to him, perhaps?
My post which started it all was:
Hi Martin, I notice you haven't bothered to highlight any of Clive's comments when he called me an arrogant twat etc etc. is there a reason for that?
I already dealt with that in this post:
Harry - I have just caught up with that thread, and you are absolutely correct in that Clive was equally out of order
Harry - I' am losing my patience with you now - now SHUT IT before we shut it for you! End of. Your final warning.
Quote (Alex in the mod room, addressing the rest of the team):
Given that he just wouldn't give up, I'm not sure what else we could have done - I'd call it a warning that he would be banned, he interprets it as a threat.
I am sure if you read through both threads you can see plenty of examples of where in my opinion he was not posting according to forum ethos. Not always what he says, but the way he says it.
Again, folks, you can make up your own minds on what's happened!
Marco.
The Grand Wazoo
06-04-2013, 08:56
Thank you very much Jerry, for your words of support, they are much appreciated. As Alex says, we don't often need to do much more than housekeeping and that's mercifully so because of the almost always exemplary members here.
Well I wasn't aware of any postings regarding this matter on RD's site and I never read the original thread when it started, but I did read most of the 'Can somebody explain this' drivel - I miss nearly all of Harry's post's due to him being my ignore list for months, as I often found his style of writing inflammatory and his dogged persistence in labouring a point annoying.
So from my point of view I think the Mod team handled the situation fairly and came to the correct conclusion. Harry plays the victim well IMHO and just cannot let anything go, but to post derogatory comments elsewhere about an ongoing 'spat' whilst Marco was away was unforgivable in my book - talk about falling on your sword!
So +1 to Jerry's comments.
It's a sad outcome, Harry, and entirely brought on by yourself. I agree with others that you had some interesting things to say, but I'm afraid you played the aggressor-turned-victim far too smoothly for me to believe that you haven't done it before.
What really put a nail in your coffin for me was your attempt to piss all over the forum with your juvenile posts. How stupidly destructive. It took some effort on our part to clean up the mess you left behind. Did you really think I was going to respond to you by PM when you were behaving like that?
There's no winner here. Your very public self-destruct was just that. Any attempt to put the blame elsewhere is to ignore the extreme provocation you gave to many of our members.
losenotaminute
06-04-2013, 09:08
Marco and the Mods
Please don't stress out about this. AOS is a great forum IMO. I for one am very grateful for all of your efforts. Even in the short time I have been a member I've learned a huge amount and am very grateful to other forum members for their help (and trades).
Things can get out of hand and it seems to me that Harry got things out of proportion and is not able to see things with any perspective.
Lawrence
I should also just add that the decision to "ban" Harry at the time was purely to stop him trying to "ruin" the forum - as Nick had mentioned elsewhere, (and presumably because I didn't rise to his last PM) he went on a rampage, posting his "Injustice plea" at least 19 times all over the forum. (And he said I was "juvenille and pathetic"... :rolleyes:)
The only way we could stop him was to take away his posting rights, which wasn't done lightly, I might add.
EDIT: I See MartinT has also addressed this at the same time.
Marco- your forum, your rules.
But re the e-mail exchange, why wasn't the answer to Harry's first question:
'Any chance of coming back if I say sorry? Harry'
Just a simple 'yes' ?
Storm in a teacup turned into a hurricane. Very sad.
The Grand Wazoo
06-04-2013, 09:15
Talk about falling on your sword!
There's another sword analogy which is even more apt here I think Tim. Do you remember Jonathan Aitken? In a statement (oddly enough about the press) he said:
“If it falls to me to start a fight.....with the simple sword of truth and the trusty shield of British fair play, so be it. I am ready for the fight. The fight against falsehood and those who peddle it. My fight begins today”
I wonder what happened to him? Oh, yes I remember, he was found be be twisting the truth in order to support his false claims of being persecuted, bullied and ganged up on.
Well I wasn't aware of any postings regarding this matter on RD's site and I never read the original thread when it started, but I did read most of the 'Can somebody explain this' drivel - I miss nearly all of Harry's post's due to him being my ignore list for months, as I often found his style of writing inflammatory and his dogged persistence in labouring a point annoying.
So from my point of view I think the Mod team handled the situation fairly and came to the correct conclusion. Harry plays the victim well IMHO and just cannot let anything go, but to post derogatory comments elsewhere about an ongoing 'spat' whilst Marco was away was unforgivable in my book - talk about falling on your sword!
Spot on, Tim. The bloke doesn't know when to 'shut up', quite literally!! I know of women who moan less!!! :lol: :mental:
The fact is, his abrasive and confontational style of posting and insistance that he gets the last word, which succeeded to drive the team (and many others) to disctraction, was his downfall. I couldn't believe it when I read how rude he was to Macca, here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=429400&postcount=48
...and especially here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=429402&postcount=49
Who the fuck did he think he was talking to? The bloke deserved a slap for his cheek, and more than a 'virtual' one!
...not to mention what he said to Clive, here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=429399&postcount=47
It was Harry's sheer rudeness in those three posts that acted as the catalyst for the ensuing 'war', including driving poor Alex (who normally is the most placid of people) to such distraction that he lost the plot, including the other mods and him having to deal with Harry's inability to accept blame for his actions (which incidentally he only acknowledged after I pointed out his unacceptable behaviour on the phone), and rather pathetic victim mentality.
It's a shame that this has happened, but I'm afraid that he was largely the engineer of his own downfall, especially after dragging me into it on Dunn's site, calling me all the names under the sun, when I was completely uninvolved in the fracas that had occurred, 250 miles away at the time, up in Scotland!!!!
Anyway, what's done is done.
Marco.
Oh, and one more for the record, apparently according to the Intelligentsia elsewhere on the web my "Shut it" post was deleted - which is completely untrue, it never has been, and is still there for all to see.
Of course, with the benefit of hindsight it wasn't the most appropriate words to use, however in over 11,000 posts I think that is the first time I have ever said anything remotely like it. I wonder why I said them this time?
I also was quite prepared to apologise to Harry for those words and let it be water under the bridge.
. I couldn't believe it when I read how rude he was to Macca, here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=429400&postcount=48
and here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=429402&postcount=49
not to mention what he said to Clive, here:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=429399&postcount=47
Marco.
Just to say I wasn't at all bothered by Harry's replies to me, I've spent a lifetime arguing with lefties about politics. You have to take it as read that they firmly believe that they have the moral high ground and that this gives them the right to get angry, upset, emotional, insulting and even on occasion violent when defending their position.
'If you cannot convince a fascist with rhetoric then aquaint his head with the pavement'
Attr: Leon Trotsky
Audioman
06-04-2013, 09:25
Marco- your forum, your rules.
But re the e-mail exchange, why wasn't the answer to Harry's first question:
'Any chance of coming back if I say sorry? Harry'
Just a simple 'yes' ?
Storm in a teacup turned into a hurricane. Very sad.
I agree wholeheartedly. I think the initial problem could have been handled better. I appreciate Marco you tried to resolve things, but protracted phone conversations rather than a simple Yes/No inevitably complicates matters as is often the case two people go away with a different interpretation of what has been agreed (even if that is largely in the imagination of one party). Unfortunately this has now escalated from a personal dispute back to the AOS v Hi-Fi Subjectivist forum war.
SHUT IT!
:lolsign:
On-cue, as usual, Joe!
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
06-04-2013, 09:28
Man I'm very very glad I kept out of this one. ;)
I agree wholeheartedly. I think the initial problem could have been handled better. I appreciate Marco you tried to resolve things, but protracted phone conversations rather than a simple Yes/No inevitably complicates matters as is often the case two people go away with a different interpretation of what has been agreed (even if that is largely in the imagination of one party). Unfortunately this has now escalated from a personal dispute back to the AOS v Hi-Fi Subjectivist forum war.
Fair enough, Paul. I felt that in very difficult circumstances I handled the situation as best as I could, but none of us are perfect. I'm only responding here as Harry is having his say on HFS, and attempting to spin the truth.
In answer to the 'simple' yes/no thing, I declined to answer one way or the other, as I wanted to explain to Harry what had caused this situation (namely his aggressive and confrontational remarks towards Macca and Clive, on page 5 of the original thread), in the hope that he would accept the blame for his actions. I decided that a phone call was best, as I hate writing emails. It also gave us the opportunity to have a proper 'man-to-man' chat, the old-fashioned way! :)
Depending on his response over the phone, I would then decide whether he would be un-banned from the forum or not. Therefore, it wasn't as simple as a 'yes or no' answer to his original question.
Marco.
Just to say I wasn't at all bothered by Harry's replies to me, I've spent a lifetime arguing with lefties about politics. You have to take it as read that they firmly believe that they have the moral high ground and that this gives them the right to get angry, upset, emotional, insulting and even on occasion violent when defending their position.
'If you cannot convince a fascist with rhetoric then aquaint his head with the pavement'
Attr: Leon Trotsky
That's cool, Martin, and admirable, but it doesn't justify Harry for addressing you the way he did, or indeed the condescending way he spoke to Clive. Quite simply, we do not treat each other so rudely and disrespectfully on AoS.
If I had been here when the incident occurred, I'd have asked Harry to delete his offensive and confrontational remarks, and any 'back-chat' would've resulted in an immediate ban, long before Alex lost his rag, and the situation wouldn't have escalated as it did. It's really as simple as that.
As usual, it's discussing bloody politics that has caused this fall-out. I abhor the subject with a vengeance (I don't even vote, so care not the slightest jot about 'lefties' or 'righties', or whatever they are called) - all politicians and governments are self-serving wankers, as far as I'm concerned.
In future, we'll be moderating such threads very closely indeed and any sniff of the crap that happened on the Barnsley 16s thread will be dealt with instantly and severely!
Marco.
Oh, and I recorded my conversation with Harry (as I see that he's now bleating about that), because I *knew* that I'd likely need the evidence.... After having behaved the way that he has, I've been proven right!!
And if we're talking about being "nice", Harry, what about publishing people's private emails in the public domain without their consent, especially when it's being done with malice? How "nice" is that, my friend?? ;)
Marco.
As usual, it's discussing bloody politics that has caused this fall-out. I abhor the subject with a vengeance (I don't even vote, so care not the slightest jot about 'lefties' or 'righties', or whatever they are called) - all politicians and governments are self-serving wankers, as far as I'm concerned.
In future, we'll be moderating such threads very closely indeed and any sniff of the crap that happened on the Barnsley 16s thread will be dealt with instantly and severely!
Marco.
Actually Harry had seemed a bit 'twitchy' on some of the hi-fi related threads prior to this incident, the politics thread was just a catalyst I suspect. But I agree in general with what you are saying.
anthonyTD
06-04-2013, 09:50
Hi All,
Not been involved in this one but would just like to add my thoughts, First of all' the mod team here have been elected to do just that, moderate situations that are either offensive to other members,or just plain bad for the forum, in this situation the same old arguments were going round and round by certain individuals who were not interested in anything else but getting their own take on things accepted as fact, and therefore [in that particular thread]they had no regard for the forum' or the people on it, this unfortunately led to severe frustration amongst the people here who were trying to keep things on a fair and level playing field for anyone, and everyone involved, we [the mod team] are not perfect, and yes, things could have been handled slightly different, but the outcome would have been the same, and would have been supported 100% by all of us in the mod area.
Aos is the success it is for two main reasons, its members, and secondly by the way it is run and moderated.:)
Anthony,TD...
losenotaminute
06-04-2013, 09:54
Hi All,
Not been involved in this one but would just like to add my thoughts, First of all' the mod team here have been elected to do just that, moderate situations that are either offensive to other members,or just plain bad for the forum, in this situation the same old arguments were going round and round by certain individuals who were not interested in anything else but getting their own take on things accepted as fact, and therefore [in that particular thread]they had no regard for the forum' or the people on it, this unfortunately led to severe frustration amongst the people here who were trying to keep things on a fair and level playing field for anyone, and everyone involved, we [the mod team] are not perfect, and yes, things could have been handled slightly different, but the outcome would have been the same, and would have been supported 100% by all of us in the mod area.
Aos is the success it is for two main reasons, its members, and secondly by the way it is run and moderated.:)
Anthony,TD...
I also like the design :)
Thanks, Anthony.
The funniest thing though is that, as ex-editor of a newspaper, you'd think that Harry would have the ability to quote people properly (although perhaps misquoting people is more in demand in such a profession?)
Observe Harry's post here on Dunn's site (3rd down): http://hifisubjectivist.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=44759&start=1300
...where he writes, I quote:
Regarding the moderator behaviour it wasn't just Alex although he was the worst of a bad bunch. The mods basically ganged up on me and the final straw for me was when Alex wrote this "shut it or WE'LL shut it for you".
...when what Alex actually wrote was this, see below:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=430082&postcount=55
Harry - I' am losing my patience with you now - now SHUT IT before we shut it for you!
I'm sure that you'll appreciate the difference! Now, if Harry can't even be trusted to quote what people have written in front of his nose properly, then what chance is there of him relating events accurately that happened on the phone, or indeed anywhere else??
No wonder he was sacked as a newspaper editor - probably for incompetence, as well as other well-docmented incidents!!! :lol: :lol:
Marco.
anthonyTD
06-04-2013, 10:06
:thumbsup:
I also like the design :)
anthonyTD
06-04-2013, 10:17
Thanks, Anthony.
The funniest thing though is that, as an ex-editor of a newspaper, you'd think that he'd be able to quote people properly (although perhaps misquoting people is more in demand in such a profession?)
Observe Harry's post here on Dunn's site (3rd down): http://hifisubjectivist.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=44759&start=1300
...where he writes, I quote:
...when what Alex actually wrote was this, see below:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=430082&postcount=55
I'm sure that you'll appreciate the difference! Now, if Harry can't even be trusted to quote what people have written in front of his nose properly, then what chance is there of him relating events accurately that happened on the phone, or indeed anywhere else??
No wonder he was sacked as a newspaper editor!!! :lol: :lol:
Marco.
Unfortunately for them anyway, its the same couple of lunatics there [maybe thats all there is now] that always get involved where AOS is concerned, you have to take it as a compliment really, that they recognize this forum as so important that they have to spend most of their waking hours reading through every thread here looking for something to comment on, As for Harry, unfortunately for him, soon enough' once his usefulness as far as digging and poking AOS is concerned has lapsed, he will just be among a long line of discarded, and broken toys once owned by RD.:(
A...
I want to explain the sequence that incensed me so much that I responded in an inappropriate manner. This was the latter part of a discussion about paying people to do work for you.
Clive, bit of advice for you mate. How about washing your own car and doing your own cleaning? When our three children were young my wife and myself both had very demanding jobs (I worked sixty hours a week and ran a part time business). Never did we consider employing people to do cleaning and car washing.
This sanctimonious advice annoyed me, I started to type an angry reply but changed it to "Thank you for your advice Harry".
I tried to explain:
Thank you Harry for your advice. If you must know.....
1) Re car cleaning, mostly I do wash my own car (because I do it best and it's black) but not 100% of the time.
2) Both my wife and myself have demanding jobs and in addition I travel a lot. Our house is relatively large (6 bedrooms, 4 floors) so 3 hours per week from a cleaner helps us keep on top of it. £10 per hour is great value as I earn one heck of a lot more than £10 per hour. If stopped work to clean the house it would cost me money.
I was then treated to this:
Wow! A house with six bedrooms and four floors. I presume I'm meant to be impressed. Sorry but it's a bit like saying 'my dad's bigger than your dad'. Perhaps we can compare cars and houses?
There is no way on earth I was trying to impress anyone about my house. It was simple explanation about one of the reasons why we hire a cleaner. This comment by Harry went too far. I thought about toning down the slang I used but decided not to (there were no F or C words BTW). Ideally I would have kept it cool but I felt he was deliberately provoking me, as he was doing with others in the same thread.
jandl100
06-04-2013, 10:44
You have to feel sorry for Harry, imo. He clearly has deep chips incised on his shoulder - still, he's gone to the right place now. He can now compare depth of shoulder indentations with Il Duce Dunn. :eyebrows:
Clive, thanks for the clarification. It's the truthful and accurate version of events that Harry chooses rather conveniently to ignore. Worry not, mate, you reacted the same way as any normal person would've done, when confronted by such sanctimonious remarks and provocation. I'd have blown my stack too, had that been aimed at me!
What I don't understand is why it took me to point out on the phone to Harry that he was out of order, instead of him not only failing to recognise it at the time and acknowledge it, but also claiming throughout the ensuing debate that HE was the victim, and then questioning why HE was being moderated (as well as you), when it should've been bloody obvious why the latter was the case? :scratch:
Therefore, I can only conclude that Harry was either blind or delusional, as his earlier email to me proves:
To save us time when we chat, here's a few FACTS.
1. It started with an argument about politics. The debate was robust and adult. I didn't resort to personal insults. I never do.
2. Some person called Clive called me a number of abusive names including arrogant twat.
3. One of the mods (same guy who had previously ignored TWO messages I sent him) closed the thread and ticked me off. Nothing was said until much later about Clive's childish and abusive remarks.
4. There was then some selective 'tidying' of the thread with Clive's comments amended and mine left. This was a deliberate attempt to rewrite history. It was the sort if thing that you've previously criticised Dunn for.
5. Having tried to reason with Alex, he also resorted to abuse. The final straw was when he posted 'shut it. If you don't shut it, we'll shut it for you'. Now I'm all for free speech but you can't have it both ways. If he can use terms like that them I am surely at liberty to say something along the lines of 'fuck off you prick of I'll smack you in the gob'. Where would that get us if I'd done do?
6. Having been treated unfairly I tried to post my feelings in Critics Corner. This you'll recall is the section of your site that you are most proud of. You mentioned it recently.
7. The thread was closed quickly. I posted again. That was deleted.
8. I was repeatedly threatened about my behaviour publicly but virtually nothing by PM
Leaving aside the rather biased/skewed account of events, portrayed as "facts", it's quite obvious from those comments that at that point he doesn't think he's done anything wrong, and that everyone else was to blame!! :doh:
If your remarks were "childish and abusive", then what were his?? Honestly, I sometimes wonder if these people live on a different planet to the rest of us......
Marco.
Hi All,
Not been involved in this one but would just like to add my thoughts, First of all' the mod team here have been elected
They're elected? When were these elections held?
anthonyTD
06-04-2013, 11:19
They're elected? When were these elections held?
Come on now Joe, dont take my words literally, take a leaf out of the book of the characters over on HFS.;)
A...
You have to feel sorry for Harry, imo. He clearly has deep chips incised on his shoulder - still, he's gone to the right place now. He can now compare depth of shoulder indentations with Il Duce Dunn. :eyebrows:
Yup! Perhaps Dunn's site should be renamed 'Chips R Us'? There's certainly enough blinkered 'tattie-heids' there to keep McCain's in business for years!! :D
More to the point, though, it's becoming where all the AoS rejects end up... Bless!
Marco.
wiicrackpot
06-04-2013, 11:38
Yup! Perhaps Dunn's site should be renamed 'Chips R Us'? There's certainly enough blinkered 'tattie-heids' there to keep McCain's in business for years!! :D
More to the point, though, it's becoming where all the AoS rejects end up... Bless!
Marco.
Marco,
The whole issue is sad for here, with comments like that might just spur Harry on more, last thing we want is a Mandygate over at HFS,
i feel Harry has the intelligence and clarity of mind to put points across, create argument and do damage,
much to some's distaste but i really appreciated his input and for one i will miss him here. :(
Just my tuppence worth, i tend to steer clear of these things.
anthonyTD
06-04-2013, 11:45
All jokes aside,
Harry, if your reading this, please listen to what i have to say, i appreciate and in a way understand why you have decide to go to HFS as you feel you need a platform to express how you feel about this situation, however, you know as well as anyone that RD is not interested one bit in your situation, the only reason you are being tolerated there is because you serve a purpose at the moment, and that is, you and your situation are being used as a prodding stick to get at one person only as far as RD is concerned, and that is the owner of AOS, once he realizes that its not working to plan, YOU AND YOUR SITUATION WILL BE DISCARDED!
Any chance of putting right any of this is fading by the hour, I really feel sorry that you felt the only platform left for you to have a voice in what's happened is HFS, as its probably the last place on the Internet that will help your situation in any way what so ever, in fact, any credibility you had as a journalist, and as a human being will be sucked out of you by the time RD and his poison pit is through with you!
Trust me, i have been at the bitter end of him many times just for merely pointing out his morale conduct where the general public is concerned.
A...
Wait until we get to the good stuff. How he spoke to a new member who was trying to organise something, how he then tried to apologise, his text messages to me (the ones he's conveniently forgot), the PMs and emails to me from members and former members pointing out what an egotistical butt job he is. Oh, and Andre. Chill out and tune in folks. Oh and then there's what he said about Ninaninanarnia.
Lol - good try, Harry - keep up with your lies, as you'll just be made to look like more of a loon than you already are! :mental:
I've said nothing about Martin T or Bev, nor have I sent you any texts. If anyone wants proof, then ask Harry to forward my supposed 'texts' to their own phone. He won't be able to because there aren't any!!
The bloke's clearly lost it..... We should feel sorry for him. He's obviously almost as broken/damaged an individual as Richard Dunn, as he displays all the classic symptoms of being a victim of bad life experiences.
Now, let's deal with the Andre thing: Harry asked me why some people on the forum appear to get preferential treatment, in terms of moderation, and I asked him what he meant. He said the way that Andre is allowed to behave towards people sometimes.
I then explained that unfortunately Andre suffers from bi-polar syndrome, so is prone to mood swings (anyone who understands bi-polar will recognise the symptoms), causing him to be a little shirty sometimes with people, so we cut him some slack, as Andre brings a lot of good things to AoS (his in-depth knowledge of prog and vintage hi-fi and his never-ending willingness to help people), and is generally well liked by members. Therefore, if anyone was wondering why Andre gets away with his behaviour sometimes, you now know the reason why.
As I'm honest and upfront about things, I wanted to tell Harry the truth. If anyone has a problem with that situation, then they are free to express it here. I didn't realise that when I told Harry about Andre that he would attempt to use it against me, and make Andre feel bad in the process, and consider that harry doing so proves what a despicable creature he is.
Clearly, Harry will stoop to any level, in order to try and rile me and/or score petty points. Well, it's not working, sweetheart, and it will never work, so carry on making people hate you, rather than be sympathetic. You're a master at scoring own goals!
Marco.
Harry fella, despite me not agreeing with your point of view (just as I'm sure you disagree with what I post), life's too short. You have a great Hi-Fi and a family, just enjoy them . . . put on some toons, pour yourself a drink, say 'fuck it' and put it down to another of life's experiences - this is going nowhere but to a bad place.
Hi chaps,
Also glad I kept out of this one, sad that Harry and Marco were unable to resolve offline. Harry, if you can take my view as impartial mate I wouldn't trust that Dunn fella as far as could hoy him mate. The attack dogs there singled me out for my gear choices and there's nowt worse than finding out about name calling behind your back. I don't know them and I don't owe them. Best it stays that way.
Harry, you were missed at Steve's do last night. Hope you can still make some of the gigs, cone and say hello if you can.
Cheers
anthonyTD
06-04-2013, 12:07
Harry fella, despite me not agreeing with your point of view (just as I'm sure you disagree with what I post), life's too short. You have a great Hi-Fi and a family, just enjoy them . . . put on some toons, pour yourself a drink, say 'fuck it' and put it down to another of life's experiences - this is going nowhere but to a bad place.
+1:)
A...
The Grand Wazoo
06-04-2013, 12:13
Coming from someone who professes to only deal in the truth, those 'facts' are rather interesting.
1. It started with an argument about politics. The debate was robust and adult. I didn't resort to personal insults. I never do.
There was nothing so obvious as a "You are a ...."(insert your favourite insult here). Harry's chosen method is far more insidious than that. Witness, for example, his attempt at the character assassination of Ian (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showpost.php?p=429411&postcount=56) (UV101) by making inferences about the fact that he is divorced. In my mind, that is nothing but pure venom and Ian did very well not to react as he would have had every right to do.
3. One of the mods (same guy who had previously ignored TWO messages I sent him) closed the thread and ticked me off. Nothing was said until much later about Clive's childish and abusive remarks.
That would be me then. The facts are that I received no such message from Harry. Nor have I received any from him since February. As I explained on the thread, I didn't reply to that because I dealt with his complaint in public – as he chose to complain to me in public and private too, so I replied in public. Again as I explained in the thread, I don't consider it necessary to answer the same thing twice.
As I also said in Harry's Critics corner thread, when I closed the original thread, it was as a direct response to Clive's insulting remarks – my comment was that I was closing the thread before any more insulting behaviour occurred – and that was directed at both of them; the unbiased treatment that Harry so vehemently demands. On a different point, I then told Harry that it was unacceptable for him to ignore Alex' repeated instruction to be less confrontational. In fact, Harry had also ignored that same direction from 2 other moderators. If you ignore a point of order from a moderator, then expect another one to chime in. If you ignore that, then guess what? Is that ganging up on someone? Bullying? No. I suspect that had Marco been here, that alone would have resulted in a week long ban.
4. There was then some selective 'tidying' of the thread with Clive's comments amended and mine left. This was a deliberate attempt to rewrite history.
The 'rewriting of history' accusation is opinion, not fact.
5. Having tried to reason with Alex, he also resorted to abuse.
This is utterly untrue – there is not a single instance of Alex or any other moderator abusing Harry or anyone else throughout this entire fiasco. So much for Harry's 'truth'.
The final straw was when he posted 'shut it. If you don't shut it, we'll shut it for you'.
Harry has chosen to ignore what Alex meant by those badly chosen words, which was to stop his objectionable behaviour or risk a ban. I had already made it clear that if the debate had been allowed to continue as it had been going then it would likely result in one or more people being banned for a period. It was very obvious to me and I'm sure everyone else, which people I was referring to.
For Harry to choose to interpret Alex' words as 'The boys will be round with baseball bats if you don't shut up' is quite simply preposterous, as all but those who have an anti AoS agenda will agree.
6. Having been treated unfairly I tried to post my feelings in Critics Corner. This you'll recall is the section of your site that you are most proud of. You mentioned it recently.
7. The thread was closed quickly. I posted again. That was deleted.
The thread was not quickly closed, it lasted for 18 hours and there were well over 50 posts on it. When Harry chose to childishly bombard every AoS thread he could get onto with his moaning, we locked the thread & Nick put him into a 'read only' category.
It is all there to see if you care to read the two threads in question. We've all wasted enough time and energy on this, so I suggest we go back to talking about hi-fi and music.
We've all wasted enough time and energy on this, so I suggest we go back to talking about hi-fi and music.
:thumbsup:
I totally agree. Well summarised, Chris :clap:
You've also highlighted very clearly Harry's acute inability to accurately follow the correct sequence of events, or even indeed remember what had *actually* happened during the dispute in question, instead of the fantasyland that he was portraying, which was a major reason why all this nonsense started in the first place!! :doh:
If anyone has got more to add, then they can PM one of the mods or I, and the discussion will be reopened to allow opinions to be expressed. Therefore, until then we'll leave Harry, Dunn and his two arse-lickers to wallow in their delusions and self-inflicted victim complex.
Harry, trust me, when they get bored of using you as a stick to prod at AoS and me, you'll be dumped quicker than you were sacked from your toy newspaper!
Have a nice life. Over and out.
Marco.
anthonyTD
06-04-2013, 16:56
Harry,
Glad to see you have sorted things with Clive, i will worry no more, you're a big boy, and well able to look after yourself, you have been in amongst much worse than RD in your career, so i am sure you already have the measure of the man.
A...
I would just like to add, for the sake of clarity, that due to his now, well-documented, completely unacceptable behaviour, Harry (isuckedmandelsonslemons) has been banned from this site - and that the ban is permanent.
Marco.
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