Vinyl glue

[Jimbo]

I posted a question some time back regarding cleaning vinyl records and someone suggested Wood Glue.:mental: Tried it over the bank holiday with cheap PVA wood glue and yes I can confirm it works and does a very good job but you do need to ensure you put plenty on!:)

[Wakefield Turntables]

YouTube is your friend, just do a search.

[StuN]

You'll find 105 pages of user experience/discussion here:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99837

[AlfaGTV]

Have also tried it, and in my experience the method may have its merits.. ( if you have unlimited access to PolyVinylAcetace, woodglue, and tiiiiiimeeeeee!)
But, a proper RCM does a better job in a twentieth of the time and cost...
Nice experiment though! :)

Regards //Mike

[daytona600]

wet cleaning with a record machine tried and trusted thousands of times

[The Grand Wazoo]

I think I also demonstrated on another thread on AoS that unless you have a tiny record collection, using glue ends up being more expensive!

[Packgrog]

A record cleaning machine is an essential investment. If you use only one cleaning method, that should be it. The KAB EV-1 is effective and not super expensive. I still want a VPI 16.5, as it would be far less hassle, but it's still too expensive for me at the moment.

I've tried the wood glue trick (Titebond II), and it is indeed very effective at getting out a lot of the stuff that wet-cleaning alone doesn't get. HOWEVER, I've had issues with bits getting left behind in the lead-in and run-out grooves that I've been unable to remove.

Based on recommendation from an acquaintance who has gone through a LOT of thrift-store vinyl, I'm going to be trying the Record Revirginizer. It's not cheap ($40 shipped from juno.co.uk), but apparently he's had significantly better results with it than with wood glue. I've got some precious older records that I'm keen to try this with (promo or original pressings from the 70's, 80's) that cleaned up very well with Titebond II and AIVS Super Cleaner Trio, but still have some annoying clicks that won't go away. We shall see...

[The Grand Wazoo]

Re. Revirginizer: Let's do the calculation.

$40 for 500ml
30ml per record (at the minimum recommended appl. rate of 15 per side)
That's 16 and a bit records per $40 - call it 20

$200 per 100 records
How much does a VPI 16.5 cost? - $600

If you own 300 records, you've paid for your VPI by cleaning them each once. But with $600 worth of VPI you can clean them as many times as you want. With $600 worth of that gunk - you do it once. With the VPI, you can buy as many records as you like in the future and clean them as many times as you want.
With the gunk, it's another $40 for every 16 records

The VPI suddenly begins to look like a bargain!

[Macca]

The revirginizer is a good product and it does work. I tried it a couple of years back there is a thread somewhere. Chris is correct in that if you want to clean your entire collection - or even just the records you have in rotation, then financially it won't make sense. It was the sonic improvement from the reviginizer cleaning that bowled me over so much I invested in a Moth RCM almost immediately. In that respect the reviginizer is worth a try if you need to prove to yourself that the expense of a proper RCM is worth it.

[Qwin]

The PVA (Glue method) definitely works - I tried it, but it's far to slow. Most of my precious is pre owned and I come back from charity shops or car boot sales with the odd ten or so. It all gets cleaned before I play it, so a RCM is essential for me. I use the Okki Nokki which is at the lower end of the price range and I can heartily recommend it. For any vinyl that doesn't clean up after a couple of attempts I use the hand steamer technique on the RCM as a last resort. People panic about steam and vinyl - DON'T - I tried to damage a record deliberately and it took a lot of steam applied at one inch distance for a long time to do anything. You apply the steam for such a short time (record spinning) that it only gets slightly warm at most. I steamed my Beatles and Led Zepp II first pressings, the latter being almost unplayable but now almost silent. I would not have risked these if I was not 100% sure it was safe from my own testing.
I tried various hand cleaning methods and using a Lazzy Susan etc but you need the vacuum to remove the fluid, that is the key element – there are threads on DIY RCM’s around if you are handy that way. For me it was a major outlay, but I wouldn’t be without one.

[The Grand Wazoo]

In that respect the reviginizer is worth a try if you need to prove to yourself that the expense of a proper RCM is worth it.

That's an excellent point - find out how good clean records can sound and then invest to do it properly.



We've all done it, we've all tried to find a way to avoid paying the high cost of a proper RCM.

Like most jobs - there are three things that you ideally want to achieve - in no particular order:

Do it cost effectively.
Make a good job of it.
Do it quickly.


With all of the non-vacuum RCM methods you have to pick the two you are most comfortable with because sure as the sun rises in the morning, you can't have all three! And with some of the methods out there, you can only have one.

In my opinion, the vacuum RCM is the only thing that gives you all three.

But the reason we all look for other methods is to save the cost. There are two types of cost - capex and opex. That's to say capital expenditure (what you pay up front) and operational expenditure (running costs).

With an RCM the capex seems quite high but the operational lifespan is very long for that investment and crucially, the opex is very low. You make an excellent job of it and you do it quickly.

With the other methods the capex is low but the opex is usually very high because the operation life of your original investment is very short. You usually make a reasonable job of it (sometimes excellent) and you usually do it very slowly.

In record cleaning, as in business, unless they're careful people always get caught out by the opex!

Those are the the choices - there will always be a compromise to be made - you need to make the choices you feel most comfortable with but speak to anyone who's been in your shoes and tried to avoid the expense of an RCM and you'll find that they have never regretted making the investment. That is why they are almost never available secondhand.

[Jimbo]

The revirginizer is a good product and it does work. I tried it a couple of years back there is a thread somewhere. Chris is correct in that if you want to clean your entire collection - or even just the records you have in rotation, then financially it won't make sense. It was the sonic improvement from the reviginizer cleaning that bowled me over so much I invested in a Moth RCM almost immediately. In that respect the reviginizer is worth a try if you need to prove to yourself that the expense of a proper RCM is worth it.

Hi Martin, I have to agree with some of the other posts that Glue is indeed expensive, time consuming and messy. Do you still have the MOTH RCM and does it do a good job as I would seriously consider buying one.

[Macca]

Hi Martin, I have to agree with some of the other posts that Glue is indeed expensive, time consuming and messy. Do you still have the MOTH RCM and does it do a good job as I would seriously consider buying one.

Yes I still have it and would wholeheartedly recommend it, I don't think there is anyone here who uses one who would not do so. The Okki Nokki does seem to be available slightly cheaper and again, no-one here who owns one has anything less than praise for it.

I had a reasonable collection (about 400 LPs) that had languished for many years due to scratches, stickimg, jumping and general noise. All those things that people say puts them off vinyl. With the vinyl revirginizer I cleaned a couple of records as test and it was jaw on the floor time - not only had it cleared up the noise, sticking and jumping, it had also improved the overall sq particularly in the high treble. That was when I bit the bullet and bought the Moth.

I now have many, many LPs that play as cleanly as a CD with absolutely no surface noice, pops or clicks. Records I bought as a teenager are rendered as new, my whole collection was opened up to my appreciation again, not to mention the hundreds of Lps I have since bought for peanuts second hand.

One last thing to consider - I don't remember the last time I had to clean the stylus - it must be well over a year ago. If you are using anything other than a twenty quid 'Saturday night special' the savings you will accrue in extended stylus life alone will pay for the RCM within a couple of years.

Regards