View Full Version : A new hifi journey for Marco and others with well sorted and expensive systems?
I was going to post this as a reply to Marco on the "Bought new Brio R thread), but thought a "back to basics" new thread may be worth a giggle or two, with genuine intent for us cash-strapped music lovers with an interest in the gear that reproduces it...
I meant in comparison with the equipment I'm used to using. Therefore, you'll forgive me if I don't become too excited about how one budget SS amp performs against another, NVA or not, unless the latter goes up in flames and provides us with some top comedy! :lol:
Marco.
Can I make a very respectful and serious suggestion to you Marco?
You have a supremely well sorted and obviously capable main system, and a couple of additional pairs of classic Celestion's speakers which you also love to bits.
Since I doubt there's a huge amount you could do to the main setup now without wholesale and very expensive gear-changes - or possibly going active with a copper amp clone (also very expensive as a one-off assuming the transformers can still be got), may I please suggest you consider a side project one day, starting from scratch with deliberately limited budget. I dunno, a Mini-T to start with (or the even cheaper eBay alternative with separate power supply for under fifty notes), a NAD 533 deck with better cartridge than the awful Goldring thing they usually came with (Cabon or AT95E). If the T amp doesn't like the Ditton 15XR's (don't even THINK of using the 66's with one - on the other hand..... :)) then maybe a classic from past times for under a ton - A&R A60 and many many others...
I'm not suggesting quite another cheap-as-chips challenge, which worked so well, but maybe the next price level up, say under £500 total including cables. As well as making you appreciate the main system even more, it might get the creative juices going and further increase knowledge of the kind of gear "the rest of us" use daily, and also how to fine tune it for best performance, given the smaller scale of reproduction. There's so much enjoyment achievable from say a Rega 2 or 3 (R200 arm) with Sumiko Oyster or Pearl, which is as near to an A&R E77 or Rega R100 cartridge as I can get, an A&R A60 or Creek 4040 - or Rotel BX/HK5500 and whatever little speakers take your fancy.
I just think this could be a fun thing to try (physical space permitting) and having such a great main setup with which to reference, may bring great satisfaction to some of you chaps. I'm suggesting sticking with mainstream amps etc rather than cheapo valve confections that noone's ever heard of, cables that are readily available (Mark Grant HD1000 standard version and others available here for £50 or so) and heavy duty but not expensive speaker cables (the Konig 4mm stuff for a quid a metre looks interesting if it's the same as the cables Linn supplied with the Classik - really good cheap stuff).
I know some of you are sort-of doing this anyway, and apologies to Marco if you feel I'm singling you out here.
Isn't this like asking someone who drives an Aston DB9 to slum it in a Fiat Panda for a while until he learns to appreciate it?
Not as blunt as that - and a modern Fiat Panda may not be as tinny as the originals were. I'm suggesting perhaps a upper-caste Golf over his sporty Merc :)
You can try to get the best by throwing money at a problem, but the real skill in this case is in using limited resouces to get a really good, involving sound, albeit on a smaller scale than the huge Tannoys..
Marco in a Fiat Panda.... I'll get my camera:lol:
JazzBones
29-03-2013, 11:38
Marco in a Fiat Panda.... I'll get my camera:lol:
Its locked away in the boot of his big Merc Rich and comes out at night :lol:
A better road analogy would be the Merc driver building himself a hot Mini. it's not a Merc, but it's loads of fun!
Kit cars - I hadn't thought of that, but how many of "us" audio people are able to build our own Gain-Clones etc?
A better road analogy would be the Merc driver building himself a hot Mini. it's not a Merc, but it's loads of fun!
I like that Shane ;)
Audioman
29-03-2013, 12:19
Not as blunt as that - and a modern Fiat Panda may not be as tinny as the originals were. I'm suggesting perhaps a upper-caste Golf over his sporty Merc :)
You can try to get the best by throwing money at a problem, but the real skill in this case is in using limited resouces to get a really good, involving sound, albeit on a smaller scale than the huge Tannoys..
I would suggest that the difference between an upper range VW Passat or Golf and a Merc is less than Marco imagines apart from the unecessary overpowered (in terms of usable and legal performance) 3,5 litre engine. The same comparison can be applied to hi-fi. Cheaper less powerfull amps in smaller rooms can be almost as good if used within their practical limits - with speakers that are domestically acceptable in most homes.
Hilarious thread, chaps! Dave, your suggestion is interesting and something that I may consider doing for the AoS show :)
I would suggest that the difference between an upper range VW Passat or Golf and a Merc is less than Marco imagines...
Oh, you're absolutely right, Paul. The biggest difference is probably the running costs (servicing, parts replacement, insurance, etc)! :eek:
I also fully agree with this:
The same comparison can be applied to hi-fi. Cheaper less powerfull amps in smaller rooms can be almost as good if used within their practical limits - with speakers that are domestically acceptable in most homes.
However, returning to cars, there's also something special about the way that Mercs (sorry, glorified 'hearses', lol) drive/feel, compared with 'ordinary' cars (I hesitate to use that term, but I suspect you know what I mean), which once experienced, there's no going back.
There's smoothness: a sense of being swept along gracefully in a floating pillow of air, which in my experience one just doesn't get when driving other cars, even BMWs, which have different, equally enviable traits. Consequently, I'll be sticking with big Mercs for the foreseeable future, although I may treat myself to a Porsche or vintage Aston Martin, when I retire full-time, in the next couple of years!
Marco.
Firebottle
29-03-2013, 14:30
There's smoothness: a sense of being swept along gracefully in a floating pillow of air - Marco.
I know it's continuing the thread drift but...
A friend Chris who did his apprenticeship at Rolls Royce many moons ago said he always fancied one one day.
Lo and behold they turned up at our place last year in said Silver Shadow. Chris let me drive it :eek:
Now that was smooth :), and very easy to drive.
:cool:Al
A mate of mine who is a real petrol head describes such cars (top Merc, Jag, Audi and BMW etc) as driving along in waftmatic mode.
Lodgesound
29-03-2013, 15:53
Any news on the AOS Show yet Marco?
A mate of mine who is a real petrol head describes such cars (top Merc, Jag, Audi and BMW etc) as driving along in waftmatic mode.
For most of his driving career, my late father drove either Jaguar or Daimler cars (he could offset the running costs as an expense as he had his own business). His last car was a Daimler with a 5.3 litre V12 engine (think it was called a "Double Six").
He let me drive it and what with the superb 'ride' and power available, the car seemed to glide along and "drive itself". The downside of course was the 15 - 18 mpg fuel consumption!
For most of his driving career, my late father drove either Jaguar or Daimler cars (he could offset the running costs as an expense as he had his own business). His last car was a Daimler with a 5.3 litre V12 engine (think it was called a "Double Six").
He let me drive it and what with the superb 'ride' and power available, the car seemed to glide along and "drive itself". The downside of course was the 15 - 18 mpg fuel consumption!
Back in the early 90's I worked opposite an outfit which made Lamborghini Countach replicas. These were not your average cheapo plastic crappy kit cars, they were very well crafted and mechanically engineered vehicles with bespoke interiors which were absolutely sumptuous. The cars outperformed and out rode the original Countach by a wide margin and the reason for the performance hike was down to a well tuned Jaguar V12 and Jaguar running gear.
The MD took me out for a spin in their demonstrator when he caught me admiring it one lunchtime. Not a shake or rattle could be heard from the cockpit fittings, but the howl from the engine and the manic acceleration I will never forget. He snicked through the six speed box as he proudly informed me that the car would top 204mph, do 0-60mph in under four seconds and had lapped Silverstones national circuit over two and a half seconds quicker than the real thing. The Jag/Daimler V12 is an awesome engine ;)
John Steed thought so
8l_Bz_OHhxg
Nice clip, Roy. Its sheer middle-class British-ness made me giggle! :eyebrows: I did love The Avengers...
Always loved big Jag V12s - they were true flying machines and oozed class, but reliability issues were always a concern. Tim's bang on, however:
A mate of mine who is a real petrol head describes such cars (top Merc, Jag, Audi and BMW etc) as driving along in waftmatic mode.
"Waftmatic mode" is spot on! :exactly:
Marco.
Any news on the AOS Show yet Marco?
Hi Stewart,
It's still due to happen. Date has been provisionally set for 3/11/13, at one of the large conference-type hotels we've been looking at in Derby. All will be confirmed in due course :)
Marco.
Back on topic,wouldn't it be more of a challenge to make it a, just under £2,000 system.We all know you can enjoy a £500 system,but a really good two grand system would piss off everyone who had parted with up to £15,000,we know your out there.:whistle:
For £2,000 2nd hand you can get a pretty stunning system if you shop around and take your time.
Up to you chaps, and I still think marco should try a "little belter" of a stereo away from his "ballsy waftomatic :lol:" main HiFi... Actually I suspect naughty big Tannoys are anything BUT "waftomatic," but I hope you see what I mean anyway :)
My KJ manager donkeys years ago had a Jag XJ12 for a while. This one wasn't too old then and was reliable and rust free for the few years he had it. It was an amazing machine to be transported in, utterly quiet and refined, the air conditioning valves and fan noisier than the engine. Julian Vereker at Naim had one or two XJ12's as well, and his first had a lightly ticking piston/cylinder. Jaguar were so embarrassed they rebuilt the engine for nowt IIRC.....
I drove a Daimler double six from Oxford to London. The centre box had completely disintergrated and it sounded like a Spitfire on the motorway. It belonged to a friend with a petrol expense account, which is just as well given the computer showed fuel consumption of 6mpg flat out. It is the only car I have been in where the fuel gauge dropped visibly as though the tank had a hole in it!
Wakefield Turntables
29-03-2013, 20:42
why dont we try and do the "cheap as chips" system challenge again this year?
why dont we try and do the "cheap as chips" system challenge again this year?
As far as I know - we are.
+1 for the CAC challenge..... I'm in.
I put together a budget system for the PC which sounds surprisingly good all prices are in Aussie $. I use optical out from the sound card and play via Foobar2000.
Ebay T-amp inc 5A supply - $70
1453 NOS DAC kit - $11
Case for above - $20
Monitor Audio Monitor One - $100
The speakers are absolutely brilliant for the money.
RobbieGong
29-03-2013, 23:32
Back on topic,wouldn't it be more of a challenge to make it a, just under £2,000 system.We all know you can enjoy a £500 system,but a really good two grand system would piss off everyone who had parted with up to £15,000,we know your out there.:whistle:
+1 Makes sense to me, shop very smart indeed and watch the jaws drop :lol:
I'm doing my bit along these lines. I already have the speakers...
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23369
...and now I'm building a linear power supply for the Mini-T amp powering them. Source is my PC and DAC is the still rather good and inexpensive Gator'd Caiman.
Wakefield Turntables
30-03-2013, 08:20
Oh man this will be my THIRD setup if I take part :eek:
Well so far I have a CD player for £30, speakers for £10, stands for £20, that would leave 40 quid for an amp and cable. Obviously I have loads of spare cable but in the spirit of a challenge would try and beg or steal some:lol:
So an amp for 40 quid... I realise a t-amp is the obvious choice but I'd like to do something more original than that and see if we can get a nice old receiver or something which would give me an FM source too. Suggest away....
Don't forget the active alternative for £130 or so - the Studiospares Seiwin desktop speakers are reputed to be very good babies and are properly active too, so no external amps at all.....
daytona600
30-03-2013, 19:44
little Q acoustic 1010i & 2020i are little crackers for the money
with a T Amp or great with valves as well
little Q acoustic 1010i & 2020i are little crackers for the money
with a T Amp or great with valves as well
+1 :thumbsup: The entire Q acoustic range of speakers are very capable indeed. The most impressive for me were their floorstanders (I forget the model. The drivers are laid out in a D'appolito arrangement if that helps), which are supremely well made, very stylish and just blew me away with their performance and VFM.
daytona600
31-03-2013, 01:14
Q2050i are the floorstanders not heard that model yet myself but look like a great buy
Marco in a Fiat Panda.... I'll get my camera:lol:
I'll get the fire engine...
Never driven a Panda, but I bet it's like a Rega RP1 with Carbon cartridge (get me shilling in :lol:) I bet you start off not expecting anything great, and may finish blown away by the well balanced compromises it offers for not much money, relatively speaking :)
Well I happened to be passing a Fiat showroom today where I was stopped in my tracks by a punto. This however was no ordinary punto, it was the new punto abbarth... My goodness that thing is a looker, far too young and trendy for me but its what every bloke after a m***e magnet should probably be aspiring to...:lol:
However, returning to cars, there's also something special about the way that Mercs (sorry, glorified 'hearses', lol) drive/feel, compared with 'ordinary' cars (I hesitate to use that term, but I suspect you know what I mean), which once experienced, there's no going back.
There's smoothness: a sense of being swept along gracefully in a floating pillow of air.
:lol: Sounds like you're ready for your tranquilisers, Sir..
When I drive a smooth, quiet car, I find myself having to drive with the window open to get a least some road noise to keep me interested... interested in life(?).
Up to you chaps, and I still think marco should try a "little belter" of a stereo away from his "ballsy waftomatic :lol:" main HiFi... Actually I suspect naughty big Tannoys are anything BUT "waftomatic," but I hope you see what I mean anyway :)
I guess some people need or have second, third, fourth etc. systems for kitchens, studies..., but I don't really see the point of a "little belter", which would be comprehensively outclassed in every way by a well sorted expensive system in the context you put forward to Marco.
I used to be of the same opinion, Neil. However, I'm rather enjoying my second (effectively my PC) system in the study when I'm working. I wish I had a similar setup at work where the squawk from my PC monitor speakers is truly dreadful.
I guess some people need or have second, third, fourth etc. systems for kitchens, studies..., but I don't really see the point of a "little belter", which would be comprehensively outclassed in every way by a well sorted expensive system in the context you put forward to Marco.
That's the whole point - a good "little belter" of a stereo can often show up exactly what's wrong with so many huge expensive concoctions many of us who can afford it get lumbered with! Take away the expensive bling boxes of so much "Top End" gear and what's left isn't very much a lot of the time, and many tiny Top End manufacturers of especially digital gear, just don't have the buying power or expertise to make really effective products, so charge the earth for little improvement if any improvements at all - just ask "our" Stan and I'm sure he'd have tales to tell in this respect.
Marco has expressed recently (I think) that his system is so far removed from the kind of "stuff" we use by and large that he doesn't have the "focus" when it comes to cheaper gear, the likes of a Brio R and/or proper alternatives from XTZ or Emotiva for example leaving him rather cold. My gentle suggestion was for him to leave his main stereo alone for now, since it's so obviously well sorted, and have a go at a small, neat and tidy system for very little money in his sitting room or workshop that would be a bit of a giant-slayer :)
steviej233
09-04-2013, 08:10
I've got a 500 twin air plus (model just below the Arbarth :( ) and it is anything but smooth, you cannot drive it slow it's always chomping at the bit! A mate of mines dad has always have Jags and Daimlers and they are like magic carpets, they are bloody smooth with oodles of power, but nothing compares with a Merc for toys! :)
anthonyTD
09-04-2013, 09:15
I've got a 500 twin air plus (model just below the Arbarth :( ) and it is anything but smooth, you cannot drive it slow it's always chomping at the bit! A mate of mines dad has always have Jags and Daimlers and they are like magic carpets, they are bloody smooth with oodles of power, but nothing compares with a Merc for toys! :)
Out of all thre cars i have owned and driven, i would put jaguar at the top of my list for sheer comfort and effortless motoring!
A...
steviej233
09-04-2013, 14:42
I quite fancy one of the new F-Types, that looks like it will be a LOT of car for the money. :stalks:
Out of all thre cars i have owned and driven, i would put jaguar at the top of my list for sheer comfort and effortless motoring!
A...
...when it didn't brake down! ;)
Steve, what does this mean:
...but nothing compares with a Merc for toys!
:scratch:
Marco.
Jag have long since shrugged off their reliability woes Marco, and it took the passing of the company into Indian hands to realise that goal ;)
By 'toys' I think Steve is intimating that you get a lot in a Merc :)
Lol... I know, but these days Jags are just glorified Fords. The days of *real* Jags are over! I looked at some before I bought my Merc, but decided against them for various reasons, including that.
Incidentally, I think the same about the latest Mercs, which are still in many ways victims of the Chrysler takeover and look way too 'yanky' (big and boxy) for my tastes, lacking the smooth and classy lines of earlier Mercs, which is why I bought a minty-mint 2007 model, with lots of toys included, for a bargain price!
For me, any Merc that doesn't have the iconic metal badge, sticking up on the bonnet, and instead has a plastic thing incorporated into the front grille, is NOT a proper Merc!! :nono:
Marco.
Lol... I know, but these days Jags are just glorified Fords. The days of *real* Jags are over! I looked at some before I bought my Merc, but decided against them for various reasons, including that.
Incidentally, I think the same about the latest Mercs, which are still in many ways victims of the Chrysler takeover and look way too 'yanky' (big and boxy) for my tastes, lacking the smooth and classy lines of earlier Mercs, which is why I bought a minty-mint 2007 model, with lots of toys included, for a bargain price!
For me, any Merc that doesn't have the iconic metal badge, sticking up on the bonnet, and instead has a plastic thing incorporated into the front grille, is NOT a proper Merc!! :nono:
Marco.
It's been a very long time since Ford owned Jag. Tata own them now and their input is purely financial, they let Jag do what they do best like designing and building fantastic cars and engines. Besides, we should be supporting British engineering expertise :ner:
Why? I'm not British!! :ner:
;)
I should be driving an Alfa, or rather a Maserati.
More seriously, I support whatever I consider is best, cars or otherwise, regardless of where it is made.
Marco.
Besides, we should be supporting British engineering expertise :ner:
Well, I certainly agree with that sentiment. However, when it comes to British cars there's little left besides Morgan. And I don't fancy that much fresh air!
anthonyTD
09-04-2013, 20:51
It's been a very long time since Ford owned Jag. Tata own them now and their input is purely financial, they let Jag do what they do best like designing and building fantastic cars and engines. Besides, we should be supporting British engineering expertise :ner:
:)
Why? I'm not British! :ner:
;)
I forgotted... :D
More seriously, I support whatever I consider is best, regardless of where it is made.
Marco.
It's different now because Merc have established themselves as a luxury car maker, but back in the 1970's one of my fathers German work colleagues could never understand why us Brits went bonkers over the marque, as they were, and still are to some extent, better known in his mother country as battered and smoky old taxi cabs... :lol:
Or hearses...... :eyebrows:
My 'hearse':
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/5967/mercq.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/mercq.jpg/)
I could think of worse things to go to my maker in! :eek:
Marco.
one of my fathers German work colleagues could never understand why us Brits went bonkers over the marque, as they were, and still are to some extent, better known in his mother country as battered and smoky old taxi cabs... :lol:
When I worked in Germany in the 1980s that was still the case - Mercs were synonymous with high mileage grindy old taxis.
A passenger in a taxi leaned over to ask the driver a question and gently tapped him on the shoulder to get his attention.
The driver screamed, lost control of the cab, nearly hit a bus, drove up over the curb and stopped just inches from a large plate glass window.
For a few moments everything was silent in the cab.
Then, the still shaking driver said, "Are you OK? I'm so sorry, but you scared the daylights out of me."
The badly shaken passenger apologised to the driver and said he didn't realize that a mere tap on the shoulder would startle the driver so badly.
The driver replied, "No, no, I'm the one who is sorry, it's entirely my fault, today is my very first day driving a cab. I've been driving a hearse for the last 25 years."
The thing with all of these big black lumps is that when they get to 60K miles up and over, all manner of consumables wear out, don't they Alex ;)? Things like suspension bushings (if you're unlucky), pads, discs, fancy computerised tyre valves, you know what I mean :lol:
Cheaper HiFi's are less expensive to buy styli for, or replace a laser or complete mech assembly. Accidentally blown speakers if bought recently have cheap parts
When I worked in Germany in the 1980s that was still the case - Mercs were synonymous with high mileage grindy old taxis.
Funny, I've always associated them with cool stuff like this:
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2700/mercedesbenz300slcoupe1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/mercedesbenz300slcoupe1.jpg/)
Or one of these real classics, which Del's dad used to drive:
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5498/mercedesbenz300dadenaue.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/mercedesbenz300dadenaue.jpg/)
I guess it depends on what circles you move in! ;)
Marco.
You misunderstand - that was the German's perception, not ours!
Yeah, I know, mate... But I guess it depends on what kind of Germans you know!! :eyebrows:
Remember that half of Del's family are German.... They don't use taxis very often ;)
Marco.
steviej233
10-04-2013, 07:27
...when it didn't brake down! ;)
Steve, what does this mean:
:scratch:
Marco.
It means that mercs have more buttons and extras than the international space station!
steviej233
10-04-2013, 07:35
Funny, I've always associated them with cool stuff like this:
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2700/mercedesbenz300slcoupe1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/mercedesbenz300slcoupe1.jpg/)
Or one of these real classics, which Del's dad used to drive:
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/5498/mercedesbenz300dadenaue.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/mercedesbenz300dadenaue.jpg/)
I guess it depends on what circles you move in! ;)
Marco.
God i love the Gulwing it is SUCH a classic, i am pretty fond of the new SLS AMG Black to, bit out of my price range however....
anthonyTD
10-04-2013, 08:42
German engineering means, just get in and i'l take you where you want to go, anywhere, anytime! :)
But i will still argue the point that a good jaguar is one of the best and most comfortable rides around, at any cost, i would go as far as to say that the ride is better than in a Rolls of the same era, and yes, i have compared both, you only have to examine the suspension designs of both to realize the effort Jaguar went to to achieve this, people who have worked on cars' or who are real car enthusiasts will know what i mean...
A...
steviej233
10-04-2013, 08:59
Got to love a Jag after all they did give us the e-type and lets be honest that it one of the greatest cars ever.
The E-Type is my all-time favourite car. My Dad used to have one: a yellow V12 :)
Rare Bird
10-04-2013, 09:11
Funny, I've always associated them with cool stuff like this:
Merc '300SL'
Aye bootifull cars thos :eyebrows:
anthonyTD
10-04-2013, 09:18
The E-Type is my all-time favourite car. My Dad used to have one: a yellow V12 :)
Hi Martin,
The E type in my opinion is still one of the best' and therefore iconic car designs ever!
A friend of mine has two [amongst other Jags], and i go out with him in the summer sometimes, i must say that they do feel dated now compared to modern cars, but i love them just for their sheer wow factor...:)
A...
German engineering means, just get in and i'l take you where you want to go, anywhere, anytime! :)
But i will still argue the point that a good jaguar is one of the best and most comfortable rides around, at any cost, i would go as far as to say that the ride is better than in a Rolls of the same era, and yes, i have compared both, you only have to examine the suspension designs of both to realize the effort Jaguar went to to achieve this, people who have worked on cars' or who are real car enthusiasts will know what i mean...
Completely agree, mate. However, for me, that applies more to the classics from their heyday, such as shown here in this YouTube clip from The Avengers (posted earlier by Roy):
8l_Bz_OHhxg
...or some of the gorgeous E-types you're referring to. I'm not sure what you're saying applies as much to what Jaguar are producing now (have you driven any of their new range of cars - do they have the same 'fun factor'?) but would be more than willing to be proved wrong :)
I enjoy driving big Mercs because of that sense of 'floating along in a pillow of air', which you don't get to the same extent with big Audis or BMWs. The difference with this one I've got is that it's both luxurious, beautifully finished inside and out (far better in that sense than the 5 Series Beemers I was looking at) AND SPORTY, which is what I dislike about some Mercs, in comparison with equivalent BMWs.
However, this thing SHIFTS like a very shifty thing and makes you smile every time you get behind the wheel... I'll take you for a spin in it, when I pop down next! :cool:
Marco.
Beobloke
10-04-2013, 09:28
For me, any Merc that doesn't have the iconic metal badge, sticking up on the bonnet, and instead has a plastic thing incorporated into the front grille, is NOT a proper Merc!! :nono:
Marco.
You're missing out then, Marco, as this now denotes the properly sporty variants.
To highlight why, as I recall, the original Brabus EV12 variant (based on the E Class saloon but with a 7.3 litre V12) could only achieve 205mph if the sticky-up badge was used, but managed its full 217mph when this was removed!
Also, as you can see, it's also in the grille on the 300SL, which is most definitely a 'proper' Merc, so to dismiss it unreservedly is somewhat misguided IMHO!
Lol... I don't disagree, Adam, but for me, looks are just as important with a car as engine performance, perhaps more so, depending on the examples chosen for comparison.
Personally, I wouldn't care how good the current Mercs are, in terms of performance, as for me, they've lost their once sleek lines and just look like fat American buses. There's a boxy 'Crysler/American look' to them now, which simply puts me off. Surely you can see what I mean?
For me, style-wise, apart from the vintage 50s and 60s stuff, the nicest looking Mercs was the range with the 'teardrop-effect' lights (the kind I have), which correct me if I'm wrong, ended almost exactly at the same time as the gorgeous, and iconic, metal Mercedes badge was replaced (for 'safety reasons', apparently) with the big horrible plastic thing there is now.
Marco.
anthonyTD
10-04-2013, 09:42
Completely agree, mate. However, for me, that applies more to the classics from their heyday, such as shown here in this YouTube clip from The Avengers (posted earlier by Roy):
8l_Bz_OHhxg
...or some of the gorgeous E-types you're referring to. I'm not sure what you're saying applies as much to what Jaguar are producing now (have you driven any of their new range of cars - do they have the same 'fun factor'?), but would be more than willing to be proved wrong :)
I enjoy driving big Mercs because of that sense of 'floating along in a pillow of air', which you don't get to the same extent with big Audis or BMWs. The difference with this one I've got is that it's both luxurious, beautifully finished inside and out (far better in that sense than the 5 Series Beemers I was looking at) AND SPORTY, which is what I dislike about some Mercs, in comparison with equivalent BMWs.
However, this thing SHIFTS like a very shifty thing and makes you smile every time you get behind the wheel... I'll take you for a spin in it, when I pop down next! :cool:
Marco.
Hi Marco,
There have been two versions of jaguar over the last two decades, one as you quite rightly said was based around the Ford Mondeo Chassis, and was offered in its standard guise as a front wheel drive, which totally goes against the true jaguar concept! They did try to redeem themselves by offering a four wheel drive version for some models.
The other version was a true Jaguar, based around the tried and tested designs of old, and was, is a very, very good car!
A...
steviej233
10-04-2013, 11:49
I saw e-types racing 250 GTO's at Goodwood, jeez what a car the noise was simply amazing, i would LOVE to have a go in one!
Beobloke
10-04-2013, 11:52
For me, style-wise, apart from the vintage 50s and 60s stuff, the nicest looking Mercs was the range with the 'teardrop-effect' lights (the kind I have), which correct me if I'm wrong, ended almost exactly at the same time as the gorgeous, and iconic, metal Mercedes badge was replaced (for 'safety reasons', apparently) with the big horrible plastic thing there is now.
Marco.
Happy to correct you! My wife's old C Class was a 2008 model, which was later than yours and had the square headlights, but it was an 'SE' model which, along with the 'Elegance' model, had the badge on the top of the bonnet, like yours. It was only the 'Sport' trim level that had the badge in the grille.
If you look at the current C-Class range the 'Executive SE' has the badge on top still, and the 'AMG Sport' and 'AMG Sport Plus' have them in the grille.
Amusingly, one of the reasons Mrs. B chose the SE was to have the badge stuck on the bonnet rather than the in-grille one as, like you, she preferred it. She then spent her four years of ownership wishing she'd bought the Sport!
Incidentally, how did this thread get from putting together a good budget system (easy BTW!) to the Mercedes badge? :scratch:
Completely agree, mate. However, for me, that applies more to the classics from their heyday, such as shown here in this YouTube clip from The Avengers (posted earlier by Roy):
8l_Bz_OHhxg
.
Although the Broadspeed as featured in that clip was from the British Leyland era, which is probably the worst era in Jaguar's history. Lots of Friday afternoon specials and dodgy electrics.
Happy to correct you! My wife's old C Class was a 2008 model, which was later than yours and had the square headlights, but it was an 'SE' model which, along with the 'Elegance' model, had the badge on the top of the bonnet, like yours. It was only the 'Sport' trim level that had the badge in the grille.
If you look at the current C-Class range the 'Executive SE' has the badge on top still, and the 'AMG Sport' and 'AMG Sport Plus' have them in the grille.
Amusingly, one of the reasons Mrs. B chose the SE was to have the badge stuck on the bonnet rather than the in-grille one as, like you, she preferred it. She then spent her four years of ownership wishing she'd bought the Sport!
Lol... Such is life! Anyway, I'm happy to be corrected :)
Btw, just to demonstrate what I meant... Here is a 2007 C-Class with 'teardrop-effect' headlights and 'proper' metal badge (the saloon verson of my car):
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/1613/merc17.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/201/merc17.jpg/)
2013 C-class (with plastic badge and 'square-ish' lights):
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6613/merc15.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/109/merc15.jpg/)
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/5708/merc18s.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/merc18s.jpg/)
These next two pics *really* show the difference... First up, 'CLASS in a glass':
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/3183/merc19.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/805/merc19.jpg/)
Next up... 'CRASS in a glass':
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8692/merc110.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/197/merc110.jpg/)
Total Blandsville!!
:vomfest: :vomfest:
The difference is not subtle, is it?
Now I realise that looks are in the eye of the beholder, and it's personal taste, but to my eyes, the 2007-style C-Class is sleeker and MUCH classier looking, and the 2013 version is rather boxy and 'clumsy' looking, in the typical style of Chrysler cars, completely lacking the visual finesse of the 2007 version of the C-Class, and is rather brutish in appearance.
You may disagree, but can you see where I'm coming from? For me the 2007 version looks much more like a Merc (in the traditional sense one would imagine one to look). The latter, if it wasn't for the badge stuck on the grille, could be N-E-other non-descript big American car.
Marco.
Oh I agree Marco - the styling of the front of the 2013 C-class looks like "the back of a bus"! Really ugly. :lol:
But there are a lot of ugly cars on the road these days; especially the 'city cars'.
Ali Tait
10-04-2013, 18:05
I've read a lot of people buy versions with the sport suspension, and end up regretting it as it's too harsh on our crap roads.
Oh I agree Marco - the styling of the front of the 2013 C-class looks like "the back of a bus"! Really ugly. :lol:
Exactly, Barry, so no matter how brilliant the engine is, I won't be buying one! Even the interior of the new C-Class looks distinctly 'blingy' in a somewhat crass, 'boy racer', way:
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/9538/2013mercedesc63amgbla56.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/2013mercedesc63amgbla56.jpg/)
2007 version (how mine looks inside, only in grey - and of course it's R/H drive):
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6154/2007mercedesbenzc240lux.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/2007mercedesbenzc240lux.jpg/)
Mine is like this:
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/8783/kgrhqzhjcqfbsjfi2mbqhzp.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/kgrhqzhjcqfbsjfi2mbqhzp.jpg/)
More understated, but IMO, classier for it... :exactly:
Marco.
I'll take the bling version please, but you knew that! :lol:
But there are a lot of ugly cars on the road these days; especially the 'city cars'.
Don't diss Bob, he'll get upset
http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss68/Lodger56/BOB2.jpg
Ruddy hell... Talk about thread drift on this one:lol:
Anyway, my old a400 finally gave up the ghost the other day and so I put a shout out on here for another cheap amp for my office system. Acquired a Denon PMA255UK from another member on here for the princely sum of 40quid. It does exactly what I need, is in nice condition and is gripping my Ditton15s with some conviction as I sit blasting some Joe Bonamasa. The point being that this system continues to give me loads of joy and I paid less than a hundred quid for the DAC, cables, amp and speakers.
I have pals who say they live their music and listen on iPods and cheap PC speakers, they think that quality audio is a rich man's game. I try to show my office system to as many people as possible as there is no reason why someone should be without decent sounds, whatever their budget.
costerdock
10-04-2013, 20:19
Completely agree with you Marco - the w203 merc is quite a looker.
Here is mine (2004)
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af280/costerdo/IMG_1257_zpse9deb163.jpg
I'll take the bling version please, but you knew that! :lol:
Lol, indeed - and I believe you also drive a Chrysler! :D
Surely, though, you don't prefer the exterior look of the new Mercs, compared to the 2007 versions?
The classy interiors of Mercs is also one of the reasons why I prefer them to BMWs (much as I love the latter's sporty engines and handling), which generally have more utilitarian, 'sober' looking interiors.
I guess we all have different priorities when choosing a car, but how they look inside is rather important to me :)
Marco.
Completely agree with you Marco - the w203 merc is quite a looker.
Here is mine (2004)
http://i1015.photobucket.com/albums/af280/costerdo/IMG_1257_zpse9deb163.jpg
Nice, Chris! :)
Marco.
Ruddy hell... Talk about thread drift on this one:lol:
Hehehehe... Aye, Rich, but it's a damn sight more interesting than talking about some cheapy boxes of 'low-fi' - sorry, Dave!! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Lol, indeed - and I believe you also drive a Chrysler! :D
Guilty, as charged! :lol:
Surely, though, you don't prefer the exterior look of the new Mercs, compared to the 2007 versions?
Definitely! :D As do most, it would appear - the "new" 3 bar plastic grille is now standard, even for the non-Sport models, I understand.
A C-Class may well be my next car, (my wife won't drive "The Whale" as it is too big) but I will definitely be after the bling version! ;) Mind, I also liked the gold version of the Techie 1210, and lilac curtains and Britney, so you're better off in your exclusive club, Marco! :)
Hehehehe... Aye, Rich, but it's a damn sight more interesting than talking about some cheapy boxes of 'low-fi' - sorry, Dave!! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Hehehe... you're a awkward one. ;) Thought cheap thrills would be right up your street!
Mind, I also liked the gold version of the Techie 1210, and lilac curtains and Britney, so you're better off in your exclusive club, Marco!
Lol! Well, Barry and Chris agree with me!! :ner:
Marco.
Hehehe... you're a awkward one. ;) Thought cheap thrills would be right up your street!
Arf!! :D
Marco.
Admin, could you please move the posts regarding overpriced prick-extensions-on-wheels to another thread and let this return to a discussion of cheap but good HiFi for reality-check usage? :lol:
Is it to shill something interesting? If so, no problem! Just make sure you cut me in on the spoils... ;)
Marco.
Well said, Dave ;)
My little second system, now that I have the Mini-T amp running from a Paul Hynes power supply, is sounding bloody marvellous and fits the ethos of this thread. Now then, where's the competition?
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8533/8639065898_dd37f38a5e_b.jpg
Looking good, Martin, but it's too bloody tidy! :D
Marco.
Well, I had a quick clear-up before taking the photo ;)
Those little speakers look fab - well done you!
Is it to shill something interesting? If so, no problem! Just make sure you cut me in on the spoils... ;)
Marco.
I don't shill anything as you well know :lol: I can't help being schoolboy-enthusiastic on a brand I know well and love and sold in some quantity back in the day.
But this is the Art of Shilling, so we're all naughty shillsters, shilling around in the most shill-shilleree way, so daftee, get with the programme!! :D
Marco.
P.S Hello, Harry! :wave:
JazzBones
11-04-2013, 10:56
But this is the Art of Shilling, so we're all naughty shillsters, shilling around in the most shill-shilleree way, so daftee, get with the programme!! :D
Marco.
P.S Hello, Harry! :wave:
Ah, but I have it on good authority via the confessional box and my local priest, that it is not a sin. On the other hand being a daily wacko wanker on HiFi ClubJerkoff will damn you to eternal fires of blazing circuit boards and whippings :eek:
Erm, whats plastic boy been up to now :rolleyes:? Ooz 'arry:scratch:?
I really don't wish to get involved in that one :)
Now, what that little system of MartinT's needs is a nice Brio R available in best selected form from hifi dave, who trades as Radlett Audio (Dave gets all the best ones, don't you know;)) - there, that ok RD? :rofl: In truth and back on planet earth, that Mini-T with souped up power supply will probably be more than ample if it's not pushed :)
Audioman
11-04-2013, 11:06
I really don't wish to get involved in that one :)
Now, what that little system of MartinT's needs is a nice Brio R available in best selected form from hifi dave, who trades as Radlett Audio (Dave gets all the best ones, don't you know;)) - there, that ok RD? :rofl: In truth and back on planet earth, that Mini-T with souped up power supply will probably be more than ample if it's not pushed :)
Come on Dave. You're doing your best to live up to the Art Of Shilling Tag :lol:
Do you know the shilling song?
Marco.
I can't be a*sed to look for it, but diabetes aside, I like eating jammy doughnuts, ALIVE if necessary :mad::chainsaw::brickwall::acid:
I really don't wish to get involved in that one :)
Now, what that little system of MartinT's needs is a nice Brio R available in best selected form from hifi dave, who trades as Radlett Audio (Dave gets all the best ones, don't you know;)) - there, that ok RD? :rofl: In truth and back on planet earth, that Mini-T with souped up power supply will probably be more than ample if it's not pushed :)
Yes I wish I'd bought mine from HiFi Dave... Somehow the flavour of the month is less delicious knowing I bought from elsewhere.
"Bought" - what's this "bought" word in relation to the BrioR? - do you mean you're supposed to pay for them?
:rfl:
"Bought" - what's this "bought" word in relation to the BrioR? - do you mean you're supposed to pay for them?
:rfl:
Yep, bought. I've even recommended them to pals too...:mental:
Ali Tait
12-04-2013, 00:21
How many shillings did it cost? :D
A shed-load of shillings... :eyebrows:
Marco.
daytona600
12-04-2013, 08:33
£ 250 or even less 2nd hand behringer ultradrive dcx2496
active crossover , 24/96 dac , DSP with Pc interface
add a pair of 2 or 3way speakers convert into fully active total bargain
use one myself on my active sanders electrostatics
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DCX2496.aspx
Ali Tait
12-04-2013, 08:44
Yep, I use one on my OB's. Great bit of kit.
Don't forget the '£5000' regenerator :lol:
Oh Gawd.....
Speaking of Behringer, has anyone tried their A500 amp? I know the Alesis version has certain issues (if the gain controls are used IIRC) but I don't know about this one. VERY cheap and very powerful by domestic standards.
John uses a Behringer to very good effect with his OBs.
Ali Tait
12-04-2013, 09:42
Don't forget the '£5000' regenerator :lol:
I'll stick with my DIY effort thanks! :lol:
I can't be a*sed to look for it, but diabetes aside, I like eating jammy doughnuts, ALIVE if necessary :mad::chainsaw::brickwall::acid:
Be careful with all those jammy doughnuts they play havoc with one's waistline...
I recommend lots of exercise and fresh air... I keep fit digging holes down on the allotment. In fact I'm digging a big one now 6ft deep. Next year's leeks will be prize winners alright!
I use the INUKE NU3000DSP for bass duties only
I was using 2 sub plates from BK before but Berhinger gives me a lot more control around how I use the bass. The fan has been removed as quite noisy.
Be careful with all those jammy doughnuts they play havoc with one's waistline...
I recommend lots of exercise and fresh air... I keep fit digging holes down on the allotment. In fact I'm digging a big one now 6ft deep. Next year's leeks will be prize winners alright!
I can think of three particular individuals I'd like to bury 12" deep, but they're so full of their own sh*t I don't think they'd be movable and wouldn't know the difference :)
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