New DAC and Headphone amp for my office

[RochaCullen]

Hi All,

I recently sold my gator'd Caiman, as I fancied a change. Lets face it, you wont go far in this hobby if you bought just one thing and never moved from it.

So anyway, I've been looking around and the things that have caught my eye so far are:


Pro-Ject Head Box S Headphone Amplifier + Pro-Ject DAC Box S
Pro-Ject Head Box DS Headphone Amp
Musical Fidelity VCAN 2 DAC and Amp bundle
Teac a-h01


I have a budget of about 250 to 300 and don't really want to go much over that.

How are people getting on with the Teac DAC and Headphone Amp that recently went for buttons on richersounds?

Does anyone have any experience of the Project DACs and their sound.

I currently have a Rega Ear sitting on my desk which I am running straight from the headphone out on my laptop and it isnt sounding too bad, so perhaps a USB DAC might be all I need.

All advice welcome.

Nathan

[StanleyB]

I have a Teac DAC and it is not bad. The headphone output is however not loud enough for my own use. My 300Ohms headphones can't be used with it effectively. The other thing that is bothersome are the muting relays. They are even louder than the ones in the Caiman.
One major problem that I found with the DAC chip in it is that it compresses and eventually distorts audio signals that are close to the maximum DAC output level.

[RochaCullen]

I have a Teac DAC and it is not bad. The headphone output is however not loud enough for my own use. My 300Ohms headphones can't be used with it effectively. The other thing that is bothersome are the muting relays. They are even louder than the ones in the Caiman.
One major problem that I found with the DAC chip in it is that it compresses and eventually distorts audio signals that are close to the maximum DAC output level.

Thanks Stan,

I've read some positive reviews and some negative, but its always good to hear it from someone with ears you can trust. Next best thing to hearing it yourself I suppose.

Anything else you've tried out lately that does the business?

I had to rule the Bushmaster out as it does not have a USB input, and I need one of those for the sake of convenience in the office.

Nathan

[StanleyB]

I had to rule the Bushmaster out as it does not have a USB input, and I need one of those for the sake of convenience in the office.
If you are not in a rush then perhaps hang on till the BM with USB is ready. Still some moths to go though.
I am also developing a USB office DAC for headphone users. But again, that is a few months away.

As for other DACs that I have heard: there were many but because i never made any notes I don't remember what was what sound wise.

[Canetoad]

You could try a BM and MF V-Link II.

[RochaCullen]

The VLINK might be a good idea, it would be handy for my main system as well as my Audio Note DAC is S/PDIF only.

[alan47]

I use an Epiphany Acoustics E-Dac in my office system works very well,should give your Rega Ear a bit more detail...

[RochaCullen]

I use an Epiphany Acoustics E-Dac in my office system works very well,should give your Rega Ear a bit more detail...

Excellent, that was another DAC that I had considered previously, but had forgotten all about.

[RochaCullen]

One thing I was wondering was, am I fooling myself if I even consider getting a USB DAC that samples at anything above 44 kHz?

[Yomanze]

One thing I was wondering was, am I fooling myself if I even consider getting a USB DAC that samples at anything above 44 kHz?

Nope, the USB version of my DAC (Audial Model S USB) works up to 192kHz, and you could always look at something like the Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 (if your DAC choice supports it of course).

[daytona600]

Bit more expensive but all in one unit - can send you one to try if you like
optical Dac , headphone amp , pre amp , blutooth & 24bit/192khz music server/digital transport & portable 122grams

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M_StLiGZrU

[RochaCullen]

Bit more expensive but all in one unit - can send you one to try if you like
optical Dac , headphone amp , pre amp , blutooth & 24bit/192khz music server/digital transport & portable 122grams

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M_StLiGZrU

Hi Scott,

I want something that I can just leave on my desk in work, which can pull from the mass of music sitting on my external harddrive.

Nathan

[RochaCullen]

Am I being a bit snobby in ignoring the offerings from Fiio?

[WAD62]

Am I being a bit snobby in ignoring the offerings from Fiio?

FiiO are excellent value for money, I have an E10, and it's pretty good.

However I'm currently using an an arcam rPAC as my portable/work device, and it's significantly better than the FiiO...being an asynchronous USB connection probably helps here.

But if portability isn't a major issue, and you have £250 to £300 to spend the rDAC would be a good option too :)

[morris_minor]

I've just had a home demo of Graham Slee's new Bitzie DAC/Headphone amp (http://www.gspaudio.co.uk/bitzie-usb-dac-external-soundcard.htm).

It opened my eyes (ears!) to what was possible from USB - though the GSP Lautus USB cable played a big part (a generic computer USB didn't cut the mustard).

The DAC can be loaned from the GSP forum . . .

With an iPad camera connector, I could finally get high quality sound from the iPad (either on board FLACS, or streaming FLACs from SqueezeServer). Great fun :) It comes with a quality 6.3mm jack to phono adaptor and via this I had it driving a pair of mono bloc amps. Even more fun . .

http://p-mount.net84.net/bitzie/bitzie-1.JPG

[DSJR]

Is the Fiio E10 the £70 jobbie? if so, it has one of the best DAC chips (a Wolfson I believe) in it and also a supposedly good headphone amp too.

I must admit, the Epiphany Acoustics DAC and DAC/headphone amp are probably the ones I'd consider since the design has been well catalogued and I don't believe they're built for tuppence in China and sold retail at massive profit either...

MF anything (well new anyway)? After the abominable way the company has treated its smaller dealers in the past, and often for little reason? Nah, not I!

[Dalster]

Haven't tried the headphone boxes from project , I do have a DS amp box and for me that's a big step up from the S series.

The ARGON HA2 tube might be worth a look also.

[sq225917]

Check out the Ibasso products, I use a D10 (D12 is the replacement) great dac and headphone amp, in fact a truly excellent headphone amp, not some 5 component afterthought.

[alan47]

+1 on the iBasso products,i used a D2+Boa for some years.Very good sound for something so small,not sure why i sold it now.:doh:

[RochaCullen]

I've just had a home demo of Graham Slee's new Bitzie DAC/Headphone amp (http://www.gspaudio.co.uk/bitzie-usb-dac-external-soundcard.htm).

It opened my eyes (ears!) to what was possible from USB - though the GSP Lautus USB cable played a big part (a generic computer USB didn't cut the mustard).

The DAC can be loaned from the GSP forum . . .

With an iPad camera connector, I could finally get high quality sound from the iPad (either on board FLACS, or streaming FLACs from SqueezeServer). Great fun :) It comes with a quality 6.3mm jack to phono adaptor and via this I had it driving a pair of mono bloc amps. Even more fun . .



I'd say the Graham Slee is a little beyond my budget. The amp looks lovely and I'd say sounds great, but a cable and amp combo costing 400 sterling is a hefty pricetag given I am starting from euro.

[daytona600]

Hi Scott,

I want something that I can just leave on my desk in work, which can pull from the mass of music sitting on my external harddrive.

Nathan

AK100 is the size or smaller than a mobile phone + desktop or just stick in your pocket
for use at home or blutooth for your car
optical dac for connected to your Pc

or graham slee bitzie just waiting on my sample or bluecircle thingee dac

http://scottnangle.co.uk/page_27.html
http://soundstageav.com/onhifi/20090901.htm

[alan47]

My present set up,cost £200 and sounds like £600.8658

[wee tee cee]

Berringer uc 202 is surprisingly good for pocket money....the fiio stuff has been really disappointing e7 sold on.e5 in use as a booster in a garage t amp battery powered system/e10 given to my sister in law to use in conjunction with a mac with fooked headphone socket. the 202 outperformed the fiio e10 by quite a margin.cheap as chips.
drives a variety of cans with ease and sounds way better than it should. horrid wee plastic thing but does it job really well.

[RochaCullen]

Berringer uc 202 is surprisingly good for pocket money....the fiio stuff has been really disappointing e7 sold on.e5 in use as a booster in a garage t amp battery powered system/e10 given to my sister in law to use in conjunction with a mac with fooked headphone socket. the 202 outperformed the fiio e10 by quite a margin.cheap as chips.
drives a variety of cans with ease and sounds way better than it should. horrid wee plastic thing but does it job really well.

Totally forgot I have one of those her behringer things in a drawer in my home office. I'll plug that in tomorrow and see how it performs.

Thanks Tony

[RochaCullen]

My present set up,cost £200 and sounds like £600.8658

Hi Alan,

That looks like an Epiphany Accoustics dac and a set of Grados, but what is the amp?

[RichB]

Berringer uc 202 is surprisingly good for pocket money....the fiio stuff has been really disappointing e7 sold on.e5 in use as a booster in a garage t amp battery powered system/e10 given to my sister in law to use in conjunction with a mac with fooked headphone socket. the 202 outperformed the fiio e10 by quite a margin.cheap as chips.
drives a variety of cans with ease and sounds way better than it should. horrid wee plastic thing but does it job really well.

Also in a similar vein are the Hot Audio products available from that auction place, hand built, utilitarian, cost effective and perform well in my desktop system.

[Rambaud]

I have a Teac DAC and it is not bad. The headphone output is however not loud enough for my own use. My 300Ohms headphones can't be used with it effectively. The other thing that is bothersome are the muting relays. They are even louder than the ones in the Caiman.
One major problem that I found with the DAC chip in it is that it compresses and eventually distorts audio signals that are close to the maximum DAC output level.

I have the Teac UD-H01 (plus various FiiO DACs).

Like Stan, I find the headphone output not able to drive my AKG K70s ideally, but fine for my Sennheiser PX100s.

But, unlike Stan, I like the noise of the relays - I find that the DAC is playing at MY chosen sample rate reassuring. :)

I thought it pretty good value at £230, but I saw it advertised at £150 ( a few months ago) which is/was a bargain , IMHO.

[bobbasrah]

Would second the Epiphany Acoustics unit, although I could not trial others to compare the competition. It has an enviable reputation and well catalogued history both as a DAC amd a Headphome Amp.
Having listened exclusively on headphone (Beyer990Pro 250ohm) for the last 3 months on my old faithfull chinese DAC, the resolution of this little unit is nothing short of stunning, detailed, clean, uncoloured. Compared to the Fiios which are excellent value IMHO, this is certainly an incredible little device without going into the esoteric budgets.

[alan47]

Hi Alan,

That looks like an Epiphany Accoustics dac and a set of Grados, but what is the amp?

Hi,Nathan
The amp is a Neco Soundlab portable V3,18v dual opamp.It is by far the best amp i have owned,and i have had at least ten over the last few years.It has a very clear almost holographic sound,plus the batteries last a good 60 hrs before i have to plug it in.He makes them by hand and sells on ebay for just over £100,plus he is a nice helpful guy.I bought it because it had a slightly better review on head-fi than the 02 amp.I am fighting off the urge to get his Bossfet desktop amp at the moment.:eek::)

[RochaCullen]

Hi,Nathan
The amp is a Neco Soundlab portable V3,18v dual opamp.It is by far the best amp i have owned,and i have had at least ten over the last few years.It has a very clear almost holographic sound,plus the batteries last a good 60 hrs before i have to plug it in.He makes them by hand and sells on ebay for just over £100,plus he is a nice helpful guy.I bought it because it had a slightly better review on head-fi than the 02 amp.I am fighting off the urge to get his Bossfet desktop amp at the moment.:eek::)

Hi Alan,

Just did an ebay search and did not come up with anything. If you could send on a link that would be appreciated.

Regards,

Nathan

[RochaCullen]

Well took the Behringer UF0202 out of the drawer of my home office desk, and brought it to work. Its now plugged in between my laptop and Rega Ear and the Mahavishnu Orchestra is currently blasting through my headphones.

The sound is definitely a step up from just running the Rega off the laptop headphone out. If I am being critical its a little harsh at the top end. But that could be because the Rega has a bit too much power for my closed back headphones. Either way the Behringer is a great bit of kit for around 20 pounds.

Nathan

[alan47]

Well the Mahavishnu orchestra can sound harsh at the best of times i find.If you put newV3 high spec headphone amp in to ebay you will get his desktop amp,but if you contact seller ask about his portable he will make one for you.He makes them in his spare time .Sounds like the behringer is doing a good job for the money thou''.

[ninedecks]

I originally started with a Behringer because I wanted to record vinyl to my pc and needed a USB connector.
The headphone out is pretty good value when you look at the cost of the item.
I wanted to move to 24bit recording so moved to this:

http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/focusrite-scarlett-2i2-usb-audio-interface--90034

Once again this is USB.
To my amazement, the headphone out is brilliant - perhaps it should be when you compare prices - and is a big leap over the Behringer. As a bonus, I now own a good ADC, a good DAC and a headphone amp.
I can't tell you what chips are used and I have not had the opportunity to compare with pure and simple USB DACs but to my ears using Grado sr80i cans I am happy with what I have.
Dave.

ps
Whilst connecting to the link, I came across this, looks a bit of fun:
http://www.dv247.com/computer-hardware/focusrite-vrm-box--82896

note: other makes/brands are also available:)

[DSJR]

I have a Behringer coming for a giggle. Apparently it measures well, but that's only half the story as wel all know. the other little DAC's mentioned (Hifimediy) may well be better and if you can tolerate an external power source, I suspect that careful choice here will pay dividends for very little money.

[RochaCullen]

I have a Behringer coming for a giggle. Apparently it measures well, but that's only half the story as wel all know. the other little DAC's mentioned (Hifimediy) may well be better and if you can tolerate an external power source, I suspect that careful choice here will pay dividends for very little money.

Hi David,

Do you run any sort of USB dac device currently that you will be able to compare it with?

[RochaCullen]

Currently, I am leaning towards trying one of the pro-ject offerings, or perhaps the bossfet amp mention in a previous post with a suitable dac. Getting a USB 2.0 24bit future proof dac is a high priority.

[howardc1951]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/neco_soundlab

[technobear]

For a budget up to £300, the iFi Audio iDAC should be on your list:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31ndgoKi98L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

http://ifi-audio.com/en/iDAC.html

Seems to be getting a lot of positive feedback right now. There's a future upgrade path for this one too as you can later add the iUSBPower and iCAN.

For less dosh I can recommend the Arcam rPAC. Plays very well with my Audio Technica ATH-M50's

What are your headphones?

[alan47]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/neco_soundlab

Cheers Howard,i still can't work out how to get these links working..:eyebrows::doh:

[ninedecks]

Cheers Howard,i still can't work out how to get these links working..:eyebrows::doh:

I think he is linking to this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/new-V3-high-spec-mosfet-headphone-amp/140935950085?ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1&ih=004&category=14970&cmd=ViewItem

[howardc1951]

The reason for linking to his profile page rather than a particular product is that you can always find any products he's selling when you click on it rather than trying to find an individual product that's only there for a short time.

[RochaCullen]

Hi,

Thanks for all your input, I was particularly interested in the Ifi desktop items and spent some time looking at their line up, and spotted yesterday that they have an online dealer in Ireland. The other dac and headphone amp I was thinking of trying was the Epiphany Accoustics offering.

However, I ended up going for something I had been looking at before I started the thread:

http://box-designs.com/main.php?prod=headboxds&

First of all, I really fancied trying something made by Pro-ject, and second of all Audioaffair were having a 10% off sale.

The lack of any real reviews out there on this unit made that a bit risky, but the DAC unit they have at this level is meant to be fairly decent, and the head box headphone amp, which must surely share the same implementation, has been well received, so I am hoping the combination is a winner.

If my choice turns out to be a disaster, AOS will be the first to know ;)

Nathan

[RochaCullen]

For a budget up to £300, the iFi Audio iDAC should be on your list:

http://ifi-audio.com/en/iDAC.html

Seems to be getting a lot of positive feedback right now. There's a future upgrade path for this one too as you can later add the iUSBPower and iCAN.

For less dosh I can recommend the Arcam rPAC. Plays very well with my Audio Technica ATH-M50's

What are your headphones?

Hey Chris,

The Arcam would probably be a good match for the fairly efficient headphones I use in the office: Sony MDR-7506
I also use a pair of Sennheiser HD600s. I cant really use those in the office given how open they are. The Sonys are very good and are very suited to extended listening, as I do when in work.

Nathan

[DSJR]

Innit typical of human beings, especially HiFi enthusiasts in this instance... Post a question while knowing the answer beforehand, yet allowing all and sundry to waste precious time typing furiously away at possible solutions :rolleyes:

Glad you may have found what suits you best anyway :)

[RochaCullen]

Innit typical of human beings, especially HiFi enthusiasts in this instance... Post a question while knowing the answer beforehand, yet allowing all and sundry to waste precious time typing furiously away at possible solutions :rolleyes:

Glad you may have found what suits you best anyway :)

Oh don't be like that. All the comments gave me pause for thought and those items I highlighted did receive a lot of my attention. However, none of the suggestions grabbed me in such a way as the spec and form of the item I eventually went for. :)

I can't be accused of not listening to the folks on here, as all other items in my setup have been purchased either from fellow AOSers or on the advice of fellow AOSers.

:cool:

[wee tee cee]

looks like a nice bit of kit let us know how it settles in....also how it compares as a dac independently would be useful.....best of luck-nice to see a bit of trailblazing, hopefully it can be placed on a few of the troops wish list if it hits the mark.

[technobear]

It's a smart looking unit. I wasn't previously aware of it.

http://box-designs.com/inhalt/bilder/tn/headboxds.jpg

Available in BLACK too - unlike the iDAC :(

[DSJR]

Oh don't be like that. All the comments gave me pause for thought and those items I highlighted did receive a lot of my attention. However, none of the suggestions grabbed me in such a way as the spec and form of the item I eventually went for. :)

I can't be accused of not listening to the folks on here, as all other items in my setup have been purchased either from fellow AOSers or on the advice of fellow AOSers.

:cool:

S'all right, I'm quite used to it after so long in the industry and I wouldn't keep returning to spout my stuff if I didn't enjoy it, despite the efforts of a banned member taking the pee elsewhere ;)

[Gromit]

I have the Teac UD-H01 (plus various FiiO DACs).

I thought it pretty good value at £230, but I saw it advertised at £150 ( a few months ago) which is/was a bargain , IMHO.

I also have a UD-H01 and am extremely pleased with it - I don't use the headphone output very much but it drives a pair of Grados to unhealthy levels with no problem.

As a dac it's great - the USB input (once you have the Teac drivers installed) works a treat, and sonically it hits a bullseye across the board with what I feel is a very neutral presentation. It's the first dac I've owned which I'm in absolutely no hurry to move on.