Techy upgrades: two good, one fail!

[TobesEtc]

So, my first upgrades all arrived on the same day!

First up the Achromat. Very easy to fit, does what it says on the tin. Can't really fault it. £75 does seem a lot for a bit of plastic...but it worked. Time will tell on the impression it makes.

Second on the deck were Isonoe feet... sorry, but for me a total disaster and they'll be going straight back. Best described (on my system) as high quality trampolines for my deck. Never had a record skip mid-way through a track before. With Isonoes in place every record skips every time I breathe! I guess bouncy floor plus Isonoes does not go. Anyone any experience of Technoboots (is that the name) - will they do the same?

Finally KAB Fluid Damping. Easy to fit. Seems to work. Can vouch for the difference it makes yet, I'll come back to that after some time. But a doddle to fit.

I guess "two out of three ain't bad" ;-)

[Wakefield Turntables]

The isones should NOT in any way shape or form cause your records to skip or jump. Is your tonearm set up properly?? I strongly recommend you check this before sending the feet back.

[Tarzan]

The isones should NOT in any way shape or form cause your records to skip or jump. Is your tonearm set up properly?? I strongly recommend you check this before sending the feet back.


x2 this should not be happening:scratch:

[Stratmangler]

I saw this earlier and thought that something was seriously amiss with the setup too.

[RobbieGong]

I have original exposed floorboards - suspended too. Plenty foot fall - no issues :scratch:- The Isonoes are brill !

[Alex_UK]

Toby - it sounds like the counterweight has moved back during the installation of the parts - re-check that would be my suggestion - have you got some scales?

[TobesEtc]

Well... ok, I'll put them back on, reset the arm and see what happens. But... straight switch back to old feet and it's rock solid again... so... :-/

[TobesEtc]

So... all back and reset. It's not as solid as it is with the old feet. With the originals it just does not skip with any movement in the room or surroundings. With Isonoes it does.

How tight are you supposed to screw them in... is the black foam ring at the top supposed to be completely depressed - it does get better as it gets tighter... with them loose it's awful. With it tight it's just...not as good as before.

I understand that with vinyl you have to be careful around it... but I can't see the point (for me, in this room with my unit) of spending £100 on "upgrade" feet that make the unit more susceptible to skips.

What else could I be doing wrong (that I'm not doing wrong with the old feet?)

[Tarzan]

So... all back and reset. It's not as solid as it is with the old feet. With the originals it just does not skip with any movement in the room or surroundings. With Isonoes it does.

How tight are you supposed to screw them in... is the black foam ring at the top supposed to be completely depressed - it does get better as it gets tighter... with them loose it's awful. With it tight it's just...not as good as before.

I understand that with vinyl you have to be careful around it... but I can't see the point (for me, in this room with my unit) of spending £100 on "upgrade" feet that make the unit more susceptible to skips.

What else could I be doing wrong (that I'm not doing wrong with the old feet?)



No, just finger tight to the foam - as it adds a bit of damping of sorts.

[TobesEtc]

The old ones - rock solid. The new ones do look better... but I'm not convinced.

EDITED: Have screwed them in as finger-tight as possible, without over doing it. I can now walk about the room. I'll keep them a few days and see how I get on with them. Will call the supplier tomorrow and see how long they feel is reasonable to "be happy" or return.

Thanks for talking me out of hasty return. Everyone/thing deserves a proper chance! :-)

[julesd68]

What kind of rack or platform are you using underneath your deck?

[synsei]

I'd say grab some Vantage Audio feet at £24.99 a set but the company seem to have gone t*ts up. They don't look anywhere near as OTT as the Isonoes but they perform just as well ;)

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2076/feetforum.jpg

[RobbieGong]

Wouldn't describe the Isonoes look as OTT, slightly bling maybe but the look is IMO pretty cool, has to be more that than OTT otherwise they wouldn't be the popular choice / sell so many and grace so many very tasteful looking modded Techies - Again IMO :)

[TobesEtc]

Well, I know what you both mean, but I'm erring on liking the look - even if the results don't have me 100% convinced yet.

Having seen England squander a lead (again)... I've just listened to my Sgt Pepper LP (new 180g) and it sounds absolutely superb. But that may be down to the content rather than the Isonoes, KAB Fluid and Funk Archomat that are newly installed today! Anyway, will be going to bed happy.

[Stratmangler]

Well, I know what you both mean, but I'm erring on liking the look - even if the results don't have me 100% convinced yet.

Having seen England squander a lead (again)... I've just listened to my Sgt Pepper LP (new 180g) and it sounds absolutely superb. But that may be down to the content rather than the Isonoes, KAB Fluid and Funk Archomat that are newly installed today! Anyway, will be going to bed happy.

Can't agree with the bit about squandering a lead - the game should have been dead, nails knocked into the lid by half time.

As far as the Isonoes go, this off their website http://www.isonoe.com/
Note the bit about nightclubs.
If your deck is skipping with them fitted then the problem lies elsewhere ...

[costerdock]

I was playing with some iPhone apps testing out my Isonoes. They work really well. I did this because I was reaching some very loud volumes and noticed that with my hand on the plinth - the vibrations were considerably less than with my hand on the shelf my table sits on.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=508637

[TobesEtc]

With them screwed in very tight the problems seem to be much decreased, so I'm not especially arguing. But I will play devils advocate... (big caveat - these are discussion points only, not argument)

1) If (that's IF) the problems are not cured by tighter fixing, and given that the deck works fine with standard feet... that means the only difference is the feet... so the problem, in that scenario, could only lie with the new feet.

2) Why recommend placing the solid base on a hard surface. Making the interface between foot and mounting surface hard-to-hard is perverse - that'll guarantee almost 100% of vertical vibration is transferred into the feet. (PS: Just noticed on another site that Isonoe make Sorbothane discs to put under the feet - why don't they include this...another £35! Damn expensive feet.)

3) Lots of suspension in the feet...no damping. I'd expect to see spring and damper, not just spring alone.

This weekend I'm going to do some exact like for like tests and see which feet perform the best. Now, where did I leave that football?

(And yes, England should have been home and dry at half time)

[TobesEtc]

I've tried to do some home-science tests to see how the two sets of feet compare. Not as easy as I'd thought.

As a measuring tool have a Nexus 7 & Galaxy S3 both running Smart Tools - Vibrometer. I thought that would be adequate. Put the tablet on the platter and the phone on the deck below where the cartridge sits at rest.

First idea was bounce a football from a consistent height on the same spot a couple of feet away from the deck. This produced totally inconsistent results with both sets of feet.

Then I tried running an electric razor next to the deck. Sure enough, with the meters on the surface next to the razor, great consistent results. First up were the Isonoe's. I was staggered to see that they totally killed any vibration either on the platter or the deck surface. Consistent, repeatable result. Next up the stock feet... and they did exactly the same. Totally killed all vibration on deck or platter. Score 1:1.

Then I tried using the Roksan Vibration Test Tool (OK, it's a remote control) that I stood on the carpet at a set point, balanced on the end and knocked over. This also gave fairly consistent results. But what it proved was that the Isonoe's are incredibly sensitive to how tightly they are screwed in. Too loose and they "bounce", too tight and they are worse than stock. ("too tight" seems to be when the upper thin ali' disc touches the deck socket when in use). But, get them in the sweet spot and they were a little better than stock (ie 0.7 for Iso, 0.8 for stock).

So I've come to a couple...make that three...conclusions:

1) My brand new Isonoes if carefully set up can out perform stock feet (which are probably 25 years old).

2) The instructions for set up that come with the Isonoe's are not detailed enough. Just whack 'em on and chances are they'll not work very well. [Yes, I understand that anyone anal enough to read this is not going to "just whack 'em on"! :-)))]

3) If I were the chaps at Isonoe I would redesign the feet. The top of the fitting (especially the small foam disc) should be full width or shaped better to stop the thin aluminium disc ever touching the deck. Also, I'd include the sorbothane feet, because at +£100 the customer deserves that option to be included, not £30-40 extra.

For what it's worth, I'm keeping the Isonoes and leaving them on. They look better...

;-)

[DSJR]

Wasn't an alternative source for the Vantage Audio feet discussed here once? These feet would probably do well on other electronic gear with suitable holes in which to screw them...

[sq225917]

The isonoes are springs, effectively albeit critically damped, what you are seeing is the interaction of two springs, and the discontinuities in the damping rate and the unsprung mass placed upon them. Your floor being the other spring. Best to remove one of them.

[johnB]

Toby, as an aside from the discussion on feet, can you give a bit more info on the third upgrade you did (below). Cheers John

"Finally KAB Fluid Damping. Easy to fit. Seems to work. Can vouch for the difference it makes yet, I'll come back to that after some time. But a doddle to fit."

[TobesEtc]

Yes John, happy to tell you what I can - though I make no claims to being an expert on this subject!

First, Kevin at KAB is very approachable - just email the info@ address and he''ll be happy to chat. My only problem was US Postal Service are fairly slow & don't scan docs properly - so my tracking ID says the item is still at JFK! Not Kevin's fault.

It is very easy to fit the damper. Single screw on the far side attaches the trough and another attached the paddle to the arm. For a newbie like me, the instructions were succinct and to the point but accurate and comprehensive (unlike certain other upgrades I could mention)

The direction of the paddle is wide side against the length of the arm (see attached pic - how dusty is my deck!!!) so the system will work best to damp vibrations running along the arm in the direction parallel with the line from head to arm base. If you see what I mean?

Being of a mechanical engineering background this is one bit of "mechanics" I looked at and immediately thought "yes, I understand why this should work and looking at it I think it will work". Initial impressions - it does work.

The gunk... that's a technical term for "stuff I don't know the name of"... is VERY thick. But it is also very easy to put into the trough. And it's not difficult to work out how much you need. Just half fill, like the destructions tell you.

It has an immediately noticeable effect - because you have to balance the arm and suddenly it's much slower - like balancing an arm on the moon. Very...very easy.

You may have read on other posts that if dropped lazily my arm has a tendency to jump into the first track. Not any more. Clearly the gunk...sorry, fluid damper... has an impact on the arm in big movements like that.

Now, I would be telling...little fibs... if I now went on to say that I'm hearing notes I never heard before. Firstly, I've not really had time. Secondly, I also added the mat and feet at about the same time. But my gut instinct is that this addition does work, unlike my instinct about other things I've mention in this thread. It is solid, you can see how it must have a mechanical impact and it is really nicely made - yet beautifully simple. Remember the old adage about planes in the early days..."if it looks right, it is right"...? Well, for me this fits that description.

Of the three additions I've discussed in this thread, this is for me the stand-out choice. For £75 the mat may be better than the original mat...a bit. For £110 the Isonoes may be better than the original feet... a bit. But for £100 the KAB Fluid Damper adds damping that did not exist in the stock design. For me that makes it the best value for money of the three items discussed here.

I'm a natural sceptic/cynic... but KAB Fluid Damping does make sense to me.

[johnB]

Many thanks Toby, very clear.
Cheers
John