View Full Version : Which mains cable first
Just upgraded my Mains block from Lidl to MCRUS block. Which piece of equipment would benefit most from a new mains cable :scratch:Just got kettle leads attached to most at the moment.
Beobloke
25-03-2013, 15:15
Your kettle. It'll boil faster.
Thing Fish
25-03-2013, 15:18
I went on the assumption that the one that draws the most current will benefit the most. So for example - Power amp - Pre amp - source.
I suspect someone will disagree though...:doh:
Your kettle. It'll boil faster.
My Kettle is a gas hob type so wont benefit from upgrade:lol:
Why not buy a lead and try it on items? Let your ears be the judge. I did and it made no difference on the amp. I gave up. It may transform your system
If the block is a linear type, with the sockets on a bus-bar system, then the source usually goes on first in the row, and power amps later. Try it and see if you can hear any difference, which when I tried it was bigger than changing one kettle lead for an expensive foo one with wanky plugs on each end which may not meet European electrical specs for all I know..
johnwhit
25-03-2013, 17:02
I've read somewhere that the source components should benefit the most, I've currently got my CDP and DVD fitted with Belden from MCRU. I can't say I've noticed a discernible difference TBH, perhaps a little more control to the sound.
My own logic would suggest doing the amp first, if there's any RFI/EMI getting in there it's going to get amplified. The reason I haven't done it yet is, it's hard wired so involves taking it out, case off and soldering:rolleyes:
John
Your kettle. It'll boil faster.
no, no, no
:lol:
Just upgraded my Mains block from Lidl to MCRUS block. Which piece of equipment would benefit most from a new mains cable :scratch:Just got kettle leads attached to most at the moment.
Try a better mains lead on the amp first mate, try to get one with thicker internal cable if possible, 4mm is good! 2.5mm ok, 1.5mm not good, all IMO of course!
To be honest I am not expecting to hear a great deal of difference with changing power leads.
Will try positioning different equipment on new mains block first and see if that makes a difference then maybe get good quality power lead and swap it with the cheap lead on each component and see if it makes a difference. By assessing each piece of equipment I can ascertain which one benefits the most. :scratch:
The component with the highest current draw first, because that more than any other will benefit the most from the decreased loop resistance in the mains circuit. Remember, you are not putting IN something that is "better" per se, you are taking OUT something inadequate (the cheapo kettle lead) that is the source of unwanted impedance in the circuit.
So many people will state "I tried a sooper dooper cable and heard no difference" and that is probably because they don't know what exactly they are listening out for. It will manifest itself best of all in my humble experience in the bass registers by a reduction in boom/overhang plus much better bass control, which is best observed blind outside of the listening room and a spare pair of hands to make the swap over can be beneficial here. Next, listen to the midband especially for a reduction in noise and hiss, followed by the treble for confirmation of those particular traits.
johnwhit
25-03-2013, 19:53
It will manifest itself best of all in my humble experience in the bass registers by a reduction in boom/overhang plus much better bass control, which is best observed blind outside of the listening room
It was in the bass department I thought I heard a difference, but only slight, without the benefit of a blind test outside the room. Maybe I'll get a better result when I finally sort the amp with some Belden:scratch:
John
The component with the highest current draw first, because that more than any other will benefit the most from the decreased loop resistance in the mains circuit. Remember, you are not putting IN something that is "better" per se, you are taking OUT something inadequate (the cheapo kettle lead) that is the source of unwanted impedance in the circuit.
Have you any figures for impedance for super cables and kettle leads?
Kettle leads carry higher currents for kettles than the vast majority of HiFi equipment and are much maligned.
This all sounds convincing theory but I suspect has virtually no effect. The difference in resistance for the two cable types will be small and the voltage/current flowing large. How much impact does 1 ohm have on 240 volts and 3 amps?
A kettle will draw 8 or more amps if 2kw.
So many people will state "I tried a sooper dooper cable and heard no difference" and that is probably because they don't know what exactly they are listening out for. It will manifest itself best of all in my humble experience in the bass registers by a reduction in boom/overhang plus much better bass control, which is best observed blind outside of the listening room and a spare pair of hands to make the swap over can be beneficial here. Next, listen to the midband especially for a reduction in noise and hiss, followed by the treble for confirmation of those particular traits.
I immediately thought of the HiFI salesman tapping his feet as he demonstrates something, asking doesn't it have great rhythm?
If you have to have what you can hear suggested to you then there is every chance you hear the suggestion rather than anything that is there otherwise.
Sorry but if I have to have my attention directed to the "benefit" of cables then it isn't really worth the bother for SQ reasons. Other reasons may of course make you wish to have the cable.
When I put my mains regenerator into my system I didn't have to have my attention draw to what I could hear it sounded different. It is an active component and alters the AC wave being used. Mains cables are passive and unlike audio interconnects cannot directly affect audio with different composition, connectors.
Expectation is a powerful force especially as it is harder to compare the hearing senses unlike the visual, smile please.
julesd68
25-03-2013, 21:41
Just upgraded my Mains block from Lidl to MCRUS block.
I'm guessing that the construction is a million times better, but apart from that, I'm interested to know what you felt the upgrade was James?
Have you any figures for impedance for super cables and kettle leads?
Kettle leads carry higher currents for kettles than the vast majority of HiFi equipment and are much maligned.
"Kettle leads" is a popular misnomer, because the majority of these leads in circulation are designed for computers, monitors and such-like carrying 3 amps or less and these are the leads I refer to.
This all sounds convincing theory but I suspect has virtually no effect. The difference in resistance for the two cable types will be small and the voltage/current flowing large. How much impact does 1 ohm have on 240 volts and 3 amps?
A kettle will draw 8 or more amps if 2kw.
None of that is relevant in this argument when we dismiss the notion of "kettle leads" with huge variations in construction quality.
I was once told a human can only detect sound level differences of no less than 3db, but a controlled blind test concluded that some individuals CAN detect differences as low as 0.01db.
I immediately thought of the HiFI salesman tapping his feet as he demonstrates something, asking doesn't it have great rhythm?
If you have to have what you can hear suggested to you then there is every chance you hear the suggestion rather than anything that is there otherwise.
Sorry but if I have to have my attention directed to the "benefit" of cables then it isn't really worth the bother for SQ reasons. Other reasons may of course make you wish to have the cable.
When I put my mains regenerator into my system I didn't have to have my attention draw to what I could hear it sounded different. It is an active component and alters the AC wave being used. Mains cables are passive and unlike audio interconnects cannot directly affect audio with different composition, connectors.
Expectation is a powerful force especially as it is harder to compare the hearing senses unlike the visual, smile please.
Don't start me off on expectations, please!
Your perceptions of what YOU hear is not the same as mine, nor are either of ours similar or even close to what others may or may not hear. I only suggested ONE way of highlighting the effects a change of mains cable can make and that can mean nothing at all to someone whose hearing is less acute, or speak volumes to someone who can.
Beobloke
26-03-2013, 09:04
So many people will state "I tried a sooper dooper cable and heard no difference" and that is probably because they don't know what exactly they are listening out for.
Certainly that's one possible explanation. However it might also be because of the tiny possibility that there IS no difference...
;)
sq225917
26-03-2013, 10:01
Certainly that's one possible explanation. However it might also be because of the tiny possibility that there IS no difference...
;)
Most likely this.
If your wires are 2mm thick or more and everything is done up tight with the correctly rated fuse, and all your contacts are clean there's probably not much more to be gained, certainly there's no scientific proof that any audible differences exist from mains cable upgrades.
Of course swapping out a 3 amp IEC cable that's feeding a 200 Watt class A amp might well lead to an improvement.
Frank
Thanks for these thoughts
"Kettle leads" is a popular misnomer, because the majority of these leads in circulation are designed for computers, monitors and such-like carrying 3 amps or less and these are the leads I refer to.
None of that is relevant in this argument when we dismiss the notion of "kettle leads" with huge variations in construction quality.
I hope we are refering to the leads provided by HiFI kit manufacturers. The ones I have are sturdy, do not bend easily, whereas most kettle leads on PCs at work are light construction.
My supplied leads seem quite adequate to driving significant current, the amp delivers 200/400w audio power
I was once told a human can only detect sound level differences of no less than 3db, but a controlled blind test concluded that some individuals CAN detect differences as low as 0.01db.
It depends on the type of sound. A pure note and an orchestra playing are very different. MAYBE a 0.01 db difference in level of a single sinewave, say 500 Hz can be heard but that is hardly relevant to real world HiFI listening. I used to spend ages with a sound level meter measuring all sorts of environmental things as my job and complex sounds may just be audible as different at 3 dB difference, more likely 6 dB for the average not highly focused listener.
Don't start me off on expectations, please!
Your perceptions of what YOU hear is not the same as mine, nor are either of ours similar or even close to what others may or may not hear. I only suggested ONE way of highlighting the effects a change of mains cable can make and that can mean nothing at all to someone whose hearing is less acute, or speak volumes to someone who can.
It's the suggesting that makes me smile as soon as a suggestion is made most peoples minds are seeded with hearing something.
If you want to believe mains cables sound different I will not try to persuade you otherwise but please leave the innocent to find out for themselves rather than tell them what to expect to hear.
isuckedmandelsonslemons
26-03-2013, 10:24
AlanS, are you saying mains cables make no difference to sound quality?
AlanS, are you saying mains cables make no difference to sound quality?
Please read my posts thats what I am saying.
My own experience is that a Belkin cabled, silver plugged cable made sod all difference to my SQ experience wereas a Mains Regenerator did. I also have spent my time measuring sound with a sound level meter and know what level of sound measures for differences I have heard. Purist measurement of a single frequency note in the right environment may detect change at 0.1 dB, complex everyday sounds will not be detected at such a small difference.
I am also saying innocents are asking what they think/hope/trust are better experienced/knowledged persons about mains cables making a difference. As soon as you tell someone what they will hear there is a strong possibility they will hear it. I say tell them to listen for themselves rather than you be Mr Expert or put a big IMHO. As Frank says people are different some may be super sensitive to SQ, musicians I suspect most likely.
Addendum
I should say I am open to hearing a difference if someone can demonstrate it rather than talk about it. In fact it would make me smile to hear something like the difference my mains regenerator made.
Want to send/post a couple of recordings of mains cable difference?
johnwhit
26-03-2013, 11:13
Please read my posts thats what I am saying.
My own experience is that a Belkin cabled, silver plugged cable made sod all difference to my SQ experience wereas a Mains Regenerator did.
I would much rather have a quality screened cable connected to my equipment to eliminate RFI entering. Are you sure the mains generator made a SQ difference? The internals of your Hi-Fi work on DC not AC so regenerating AC perfectly would seem futile IMHO.
John
I would much rather have a quality screened cable connected to my equipment to eliminate RFI entering. Are you sure the mains generator made a SQ difference? The internals of your Hi-Fi work on DC not AC so regenerating AC perfectly would seem futile IMHO.
John
Never having heard RFI, clicks, DC on the line and other crap people have commented on with mains I could not give a toss about screened cables. Get rid of the feared gremlin? Neither does my television exhibit mains based problems
I am very sure the regenerator made a difference, I took it out of circuit then put it back. I won't try to change your sense of futility. (It isn't futile your understanding is a bit limited). Have you tried one yourself?
Frank
Thanks for these thoughts
I hope we are refering to the leads provided by HiFI kit manufacturers. The ones I have are sturdy, do not bend easily, whereas most kettle leads on PCs at work are light construction.
My supplied leads seem quite adequate to driving significant current, the amp delivers 200/400w audio power
It depends on the type of sound. A pure note and an orchestra playing are very different. MAYBE a 0.01 db difference in level of a single sinewave, say 500 Hz can be heard but that is hardly relevant to real world HiFI listening. I used to spend ages with a sound level meter measuring all sorts of environmental things as my job and complex sounds may just be audible as different at 3 dB difference, more likely 6 dB for the average not highly focused listener.
It's the suggesting that makes me smile as soon as a suggestion is made most peoples minds are seeded with hearing something.
If you want to believe mains cables sound different I will not try to persuade you otherwise but please leave the innocent to find out for themselves rather than tell them what to expect to hear.
To clarify matters, the 0.1db detected by a blind tested listening panel was with various genres of music including, rock, classical, orchestral, etc. No sinewaves were used at all.
It is not a "belief" of mine that says mains cables make a difference to sound quality, it is being in the business of handling hundreds of thousands of mains cables used in a very broad spectrum of hi-fi components and quite a few well conducted blind listening tests too.
I used to attend almost every hi-fi show in the land and as I was walking along the corridors I could tell with 100% certainty which demonstration systems in the various rooms were equipped with sooper dooper mains leads and those which had the "computer leads" supplying the mains. This was borne out by the written "autopsies" and reviews after the shows in the magazines as to which systems sounded the best in the shows.
Of course, there will be many individuals whose hearing acuity is not that great and some so bad they have run their systems for years without the speaker jumper leads in place giving rise to no treble output from the tweeters, so it is hardly surprising a mains lead upgrade will register no improvements at all with them. Some have good hearing acuity but their PERCEPTION of what they hear can be totally different to yours, mine and several millions of others, because their brain absorbs and decodes sounds in a different manner, hence why some adore classical music and others detest it - we are all different.
If it offends you then that I have suggested a way of hearing improvements, then I can only say that you don't really have the right to take up the cudgel by proxy on their behalf, because people really are not that stupid believe me :eyebrows: Now if YOU personally can hear no difference at all then I am perfectly happy with that.
Now if a dozen or more forum members responded to my post that I was leading them along the anticipation and expectation road so that they would hear what is NOT there, I would apologise and withdraw my comment in an instant.
Beobloke
26-03-2013, 13:06
I would much rather have a quality screened cable connected to my equipment to eliminate RFI entering. Are you sure the mains generator made a SQ difference? The internals of your Hi-Fi work on DC not AC so regenerating AC perfectly would seem futile IMHO.
John
With all due respect, I would have thought that it is perfectly obvious that improving the quality of the actual mains signal will improve things.
Yes, most equipment runs from rectified and smoothed signals but if you're sending in an AC wave that is in some way distorted or clipped, then the distortion in the subsequent stages of the power supply will be higher, thus giving any filter circuits a much harder time, if indeed they are able to remove all of the distortion.
Furthermore in an power amplifier, the output stages generally use the DC signal as it is from the rectifier - ripples, wobbles, warts and all; there is generally no filtering. Consequently, the quality of the mains being fed to an amplifier can potentially make a big difference to its sound, and also makes it obvious why a regenerated mains signal will have much more of an effect than a foot of fancy cable - the latter won't round off a clipped mains signal!
I used to attend almost every hi-fi show in the land and as I was walking along the corridors I could tell with 100% certainty which demonstration systems in the various rooms were equipped with sooper dooper mains leads and those which had the "computer leads" supplying the mains. This was borne out by the written "autopsies" and reviews after the shows in the magazines as to which systems sounded the best in the shows.
.
Please tell me this is exagerration for effect. Im not agianst the idea that mains cables could make a difference to the sound, indeed I think I have heard it myself. But at best it is very subtle.
sq225917
26-03-2013, 13:27
Furthermore in an power amplifier, the output stages generally use the AC signal as it is - there is no rectification, just a step down in level by the required amount.
The only AC in an amps output stage is that contained in the music signal. The output stage is fed two things, music signal and DC from the PSU caps. + and - from either side of the cap bank is combined by the output stage devices which are driven by the music signal to give the amplified AC that is sent to the speakers.
Please tell me this is exagerration for effect. Im not agianst the idea that mains cables could make a difference to the sound, indeed I think I have heard it myself. But at best it is very subtle.
hi
that depends on the system and the cables, no 2 systems are alike
To clarify matters, the 0.1db detected by a blind tested listening panel was with various genres of music including, rock, classical, orchestral, etc. No sinewaves were used at all.
It is not a "belief" of mine that says mains cables make a difference to sound quality, it is being in the business of handling hundreds of thousands of mains cables used in a very broad spectrum of hi-fi components and quite a few well conducted blind listening tests too.
I used to attend almost every hi-fi show in the land and as I was walking along the corridors I could tell with 100% certainty which demonstration systems in the various rooms were equipped with sooper dooper mains leads and those which had the "computer leads" supplying the mains. This was borne out by the written "autopsies" and reviews after the shows in the magazines as to which systems sounded the best in the shows.
Of course, there will be many individuals whose hearing acuity is not that great and some so bad they have run their systems for years without the speaker jumper leads in place giving rise to no treble output from the tweeters, so it is hardly surprising a mains lead upgrade will register no improvements at all with them. Some have good hearing acuity but their PERCEPTION of what they hear can be totally different to yours, mine and several millions of others, because their brain absorbs and decodes sounds in a different manner, hence why some adore classical music and others detest it - we are all different.
If it offends you then that I have suggested a way of hearing improvements, then I can only say that you don't really have the right to take up the cudgel by proxy on their behalf, because people really are not that stupid believe me :eyebrows: Now if YOU personally can hear no difference at all then I am perfectly happy with that.
Now if a dozen or more forum members responded to my post that I was leading them along the anticipation and expectation road so that they would hear what is NOT there, I would apologise and withdraw my comment in an instant.
Frank
I know you believe what you post is true BUT I cannot be arsed trying to point out that 0.01 Db or even 0.1 dB (did you notice the difference) is so small you have got it wrong. Go find the work and reread it, maybe post it here to put us all in the picture.
If people want to believe what you have posted best of luck to them. If people want to buy super cables for whatever reason, caveat emptor. If people ask what improvements they will get I'll tell them - listen on trial and don't be told what to hear, make your own mind up.
In the interest of peace and goodwill see you on another thread
Frank
I know you believe what you post is true BUT I cannot be arsed trying to point out that 0.01 Db or even 0.1 dB (did you notice the difference) is so small you have got it wrong. Go find the work and reread it, maybe post it here to put us all in the picture.
If people want to believe what you have posted best of luck to them. If people want to buy super cables for whatever reason, caveat emptor. If people ask what improvements they will get I'll tell them - listen on trial and don't be told what to hear, make your own mind up.
In the interest of peace and goodwill see you on another thread
Alan, it matters not to me if folks believe me or not, it is merely my opinion which they can take or leave as they see fit and may I be struck down if I assert otherwise. Whatever either one of us says, it is still the prerogative of everyone to take heed of the caveat emptor imperative.
My apologies, it is 0.1db and not 0.01db which is a huge difference I agree :eyebrows:
I am more than happy to agree to disagree and this is after all simply a discussion between us that happens to have opposing views ;)
johnwhit
26-03-2013, 13:51
Never having heard RFI, clicks, DC on the line and other crap people have commented on with mains
Me neither
Neither does my television exhibit mains based problems
Nor mine
I am very sure the regenerator made a difference, I took it out of circuit then put it back.
I'll have to take your word for that
Have you tried one yourself?
I've no need or desire to.
John
johnwhit
26-03-2013, 13:57
With all due respect, I would have thought that it is perfectly obvious that improving the quality of the actual mains signal will improve things.
Yes, most equipment runs from rectified and smoothed signals but if you're sending in an AC wave that is in some way distorted or clipped, then the distortion in the subsequent stages of the power supply will be higher
No, by the time the DC has got to the caps it has no knowledge of it's former life as AC.
John
hi
that depends on the system and the cables, no 2 systems are alike
Do you ever do demonstrations of the difference a cable such as your can make over the manufacturer supplied one at shows?
If you are ever in Birmingham (NEC?) in a show I would love to hear that difference (sorry don't travel well).
Neither myself or real world friends have found any differences.
We've been here before - and well done to everyone so far for keeping it just the right side of debate - nothing polarises opinion like a good cable thread and I am sure everyone will have their own opinions and experiences, and as long as we carry on respecting that then I am sure this thread will remain friendly in the very best tradition of AoS... :)
Please tell me this is exagerration for effect. Im not agianst the idea that mains cables could make a difference to the sound, indeed I think I have heard it myself. But at best it is very subtle.
No Martin, I have not embellished at all what I have said. Because of my intimate involvement in the world of cables to me they impart a very distinctive signature to the sound.
No, by the time the DC has got to the caps it has no knowledge of it's former life as AC.
John
What of the DC if the AC is 210v and say 250v. Is the DC identical in both cases in your opinion?
johnwhit
26-03-2013, 15:16
What of the DC if the AC is 210v and say 250v. Is the DC identical in both cases in your opinion?
It's of no consequence, the tranformer ouputs DC to the caps where it is stored and released slowly and smoothly when needed by the components in the system, many of which may be running at 3-12v DC.
John
It's of no consequence, the tranformer ouputs DC to the caps where it is stored and released slowly and smoothly when needed by the components in the system, many of which may be running at 3-12v DC.
John
So DC voltage is not important in your view?
johnwhit
26-03-2013, 15:41
So DC voltage is not important in your view?
Sorry you've lost me now, care to elaborate?
John
Do you ever do demonstrations of the difference a cable such as your can make over the manufacturer supplied one at shows?
If you are ever in Birmingham (NEC?) in a show I would love to hear that difference (sorry don't travel well).
Neither myself or real world friends have found any differences.
How long have you suffered from cerumen inspissatum, Alan?
Marco.
Most if us on AOS use decent mains cable. I know in my system they make a difference I have no issues if they do not work in all systems IMHO you have to try for yourself
Sorry you've lost me now, care to elaborate?
John
And I only have your word to take for that.
Cheers
johnwhit
26-03-2013, 16:41
And I only have your word to take for that.
Cheers
:scratch:
isuckedmandelsonslemons
26-03-2013, 16:53
Troll alert
julesd68
26-03-2013, 19:28
I am sure this thread will remain friendly in the very best tradition of AoS... :)
Well it was a nice thought Alex. Looks like the OP has been scared off ...
chris@panteg
26-03-2013, 20:29
I think the order should be sources1st , any differences should be subtle at best , IMO of course .
If you don't want/cannot have a dedicated mains spur the place to start is the wall socket itself, then what cable is used from the wall socket to your equipment will determine what your system sounds like, if its a mains conditioner or the like the cable connecting that to the wall socket is the most important cable of the lot, in the case of the OP he uses a mains block so wanted to know which piece of equipment to try a better mains lead on, IMO it's the amp, what else could it be really?
Emphasis on try a cable as if it does not improve things nothing lost as you just send it back, most retailers have a decent returns policy, simples! :)
Well, I have been following the thread all day trying to work out an answer to my original question and I must say I am not sure if I am much clearer:lol: But it has been an interesting discussion. I think on balance as power leads are such a subjective component in a system I will approach them with open minded sceptism.
I will approach them with open minded sceptism.
I think that is a healthy approach!
brian2957
26-03-2013, 21:36
James , the only way to approach this is to try mains cables for yourself using your own system and your own ears . I belong to the ' mains cables do make a difference ' club . I've tried many different mains cables and they've all made a difference . If you're handy you can make your own and save some money . If I were you I would try something cheap first of all . This is the cable which I use in my system and IMO it is very good for the money .
http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/25_lapp-cable
I would also try the amp first as advised by others here.
Good luck whatever you try :)
isuckedmandelsonslemons
27-03-2013, 10:04
As I don't have the inconvenience of work, the weather is shite and I've just got back from a long dog walk and needed a sit down, I decided to conduct a little experiment.
My four mono power amps are normally hooked to Unswitched single sockets with Merlin Black Widow mains cables; decent but not outrageously expensive cables. I listened to a few tracks and then swapped all four cables for bog standard kettle leads that came with my Cyrus amps. I'm guessing they'll be decent and not cheap shite.
Any difference? Yes, big difference.
All in my mind? No. My eldest lad is a professional musician some I'm guessing his lug oles are pretty good.
Of course I knew what was going to happen but as I've got fuck all better to do, why not. Hell, I even did it a few times to make sure.
For those who say mains cables make no difference please carry on and leave me to labour under my delusions.
BTW I'm getting a mains regenerator delivered today. Maybe that won't make any difference either.
How long have you suffered from cerumen inspissatum, Alan?
Marco.
Marco
Just noticed your post. Distance diagnosis eh? No the cold weather has made my ears pop a bit with all the snot and sinus crap but when above 1degC my ears are fine thanks. Use a sea water wash Audiclean very good at cleaning the ear canals. But thanks for your light hearted banter.
I hear differences in other elements of my kit. IC, speaker cables, effect of DAC output level through amp. Its just mains cables. I read lots of forum members not just here enthusing about this and that cable so I thought I would give something a bit extra a try - zilch (or so subtle as to be not worth the effort even when told what to listen for). Mains Regeneration as MartinT and a few others found also makes a pleasant difference/improvement
As Frank pointed out very well
Of course, there will be many individuals whose hearing acuity is not that great and some so bad they have run their systems for years without the speaker jumper leads in place giving rise to no treble output from the tweeters, so it is hardly surprising a mains lead upgrade will register no improvements at all with them. Some have good hearing acuity but their PERCEPTION of what they hear can be totally different to yours, mine and several millions of others, because their brain absorbs and decodes sounds in a different manner, hence why some adore classical music and others detest it - we are all different.
It seems some members are unwilling or disinterested in recognising that people are different as Frank does. Tis true in broader life too. These members expect others to be clones of themselves and if not become .....
Kit is different too some may respond hugely to a mains cable change, other designs may be unaffected. Variety makes life interesting. Best to try for oneself in ones own environment rather than believing others opinions.
brian2957
27-03-2013, 10:25
As I don't have the inconvenience of work, the weather is shite and I've just got back from a long dog walk and needed a sit down, I decided to conduct a little experiment.
My four mono power amps are normally hooked to Unswitched single sockets with Merlin Black Widow mains cables; decent but not outrageously expensive cables. I listened to a few tracks and then swapped all four cables for bog standard kettle leads that came with my Cyrus amps. I'm guessing they'll be decent and not cheap shite.
Any difference? Yes, big difference.
All in my mind? No. My eldest lad is a professional musician some I'm guessing his lug oles are pretty good.
Of course I knew what was going to happen but as I've got fuck all better to do, why not. Hell, I even did it a few times to make sure.
For those who say mains cables make no difference please carry on and leave me to labour under my delusions.
BTW I'm getting a mains regenerator delivered today. Maybe that won't make any difference either.
What regenerator are you goung for Harry . The Power Inspired AG500 and AG1500 really interest me.
isuckedmandelsonslemons
27-03-2013, 11:01
Going to try AG1500 Brian. High hopes for it.
brian2957
27-03-2013, 11:09
Yup read / heard good things about it Harry . I contacted them last week with a couple of questions regarding which would be more suitable for my amp and I got a response within the hour . Good service methinks . Hope it does what you want it to do Harry . Please keep us posted :)
Beobloke
27-03-2013, 11:56
The only AC in an amps output stage is that contained in the music signal. The output stage is fed two things, music signal and DC from the PSU caps. + and - from either side of the cap bank is combined by the output stage devices which are driven by the music signal to give the amplified AC that is sent to the speakers.
Ha! Note to self - don't post when mind not fully on job! Original post amended - original point still stands.
Beobloke
27-03-2013, 11:59
No, by the time the DC has got to the caps it has no knowledge of it's former life as AC.
John
So, presumably you have expereince of a bridge rectifier that sends out a perfect DC signal to the capacitors with not a ripple, distortion or peturbation to be found?
What's the part number of this bridge rectifier, please? I'm surprised it hasn't revolutionised the industry already and rendered filters obsolete overnight...
;)
Any difference? Yes, big difference.
.
Would you care to elaborate on this, Harry?
isuckedmandelsonslemons
27-03-2013, 13:17
Would you care to elaborate on this, Harry?
No.
realysm42
27-03-2013, 14:12
No.
Sorry to hound you on here but you've not replied to my text or left me buyer feedback which you said you'd do.
isuckedmandelsonslemons
27-03-2013, 14:27
Martin, Text didn't send from my phone but reply sent now.
Going to try AG1500 Brian. High hopes for it.
You will no doubt hear the audible cooling fan and reach for the manual to find there is is a speed knob which can be turned down. Mine still "fans" but quietly but I did notice it was a close adjustment.
Hope you enjoy it as much I do mine. Perhaps you can tell us what change it brings to the sound of your system.
MikeMusic
28-03-2013, 15:20
To be honest I am not expecting to hear a great deal of difference with changing power leads.
Will try positioning different equipment on new mains block first and see if that makes a difference then maybe get good quality power lead and swap it with the cheap lead on each component and see if it makes a difference. By assessing each piece of equipment I can ascertain which one benefits the most. :scratch:
Be prepared to be surprised
If you haven't already change the wall socket to unswitched.
About the cheapest mains upgrade around
It is easy, if you are careful, know what you are doing and make 100% certain the electric is off !
I tried a Kimber Classic off Ebay nice and cheap to start with, being happy to sell it on if it didn't work. To my amazement it did and then I started upgrading.
I'm now up to MCRU Ultimate and I consider that VFM.
Try whatever you get on the power amp and the source.
Probably the power amp will give best results.
'Course one on each is even better
:)
Well after a good few days listening i can certainly conclude that upgrading the mains block and power cables does make an improvement. All aspects of the music were easier to listen too. The overall sound seemed more open and less compressed with a slight tightening of the bass but also a smoothing of the treble, less edginess. My system is very natural and detailed in the midrange so voices are especially revealing of any change and indeed these were more rounded and natural. Obviously this is my interpretation and a subjective analysis of the change in my system. The changes were subtle unlike swapping one amp or speaker with another but I do feel at least the new cables have allowed my equipment to perform better.:)
julesd68
29-03-2013, 18:38
What new power cables did u get James?
Well after a good few days listening i can certainly conclude that upgrading the mains block and power cables does make an improvement. All aspects of the music were easier to listen too. The overall sound seemed more open and less compressed with a slight tightening of the bass but also a smoothing of the treble, less edginess. My system is very natural and detailed in the midrange so voices are especially revealing of any change and indeed these were more rounded and natural. Obviously this is my interpretation and a subjective analysis of the change in my system. The changes were subtle unlike swapping one amp or speaker with another but I do feel at least the new cables have allowed my equipment to perform better.:)
Thanks for letting us know. Sounds worth the effort - enjoy. If only I could get the same effect.
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